22 replies to this topic

[MarkWill]

Hi,

Has anyone ever heard of, or seen a development version of a Rover two-seater sports car in the late sixties/early seventies, and what became of the project? Hopefully I will be able to post a picture of a drawing of it, or of a 1/3 wind tunnel model when my friend digs up the photo. He worked on the car for a while, but left before the project went very far.

[Vitesse2]

There was a feature on this beastie in Old Motor magazine (precursor to C&SC), but I can't put my hand on the relevant copy at the moment. Included a pic of the finished prototype on the road IIRC.

[Vitesse2]

Found it September 1979. It was called (unbelievably) the Rover BS . And had it gone into production, I'm sure it would have featured in our ugly road cars list - to my eye it bears more than a passing resemblance to the Jensen-Healey too.

Front and rear views from above:



and three-quarter rear:



Born out of the Rover/Alvis merger, mooted as a successor to the Alvis TD21 but killed off by BL when either Triumph brought pressure to bear re the Stag or Jaguar, depending who you believe. Co-designed by Spen King, the man who brought you the Range Rover.

If you PM me your email address I'll send you a copy of the article Mark.

[Roger Clark]

In (I think) the late 60s, Denis Jenkinson tested this car for Motor Sport. He rated it absolutely one of the best road cars he had ever driven, judged by his own standards, and the comparison included his own E-Types and the Mk 3 GT40.

[schuy]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
the Rover BS

That's whack.

[917]

Go to the website of Keith Adams
http://austinrover.mg-rover.org/
where you can find in the left column "THE CARS" and click on "Rover P8/P9" (5th from top) and you can read the story about the car which should have become the Rover 4000 and see a colour picture of the P6BS and a scale model of the Rover P9 "how it is likely to have appeared had it been allowed to reach production. Many regard the non-production of this car as not only British Leyland’s greatest loss, but also one of their biggest mistakes."

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by 917
Go to the website of Keith Adams
http://austinrover.mg-rover.org/
where you can find in the left column "THE CARS" and click on "Rover P8/P9" (5th from top) and you can read the story about the car which should have become the Rover 4000 and see a colour picture of the P6BS and a scale model of the Rover P9 "how it is likely to have appeared had it been allowed to reach production. Many regard the non-production of this car as not only British Leyland’s greatest loss, but also one of their biggest mistakes."

What a splendid site!

Oooh dear. I'd seen P8 and P9 pics before, but there are some real Lurking Horrors on there. SD2 looks like a late-night collision between an Austin Ambassador and a Citroen BX - thank God it never happened (then again, seen the P6s sketches that looked like a DS?)

Looks like Australia got much better BMC/BL cars than us - those Kimberleys/Tasmans look a lot better than the crud BL were selling here!

The real gem on that site is the story of the Austin 3 Litre - including the Bentley Java and Bengal prototypes - horrific crossbreeds of BMC and RR!. Gruesome pictures!

Recommended for anyone with a strong stomach!

[MarkWill]

This story is really intriguing. There's a side to "Auntie "Rover which I totally ignored up until now. For DSJ to say that the car was so good, and yet it still failed to make it past the review board says volumes about BL. The link to Keith Adams' site is great (thanks 917)! I agree with Pete that there appear to have been some real horrors that were nevertheless developed without real regard to cost or taste. Just imagine the money that was blindly poured into some of these non-starters, and you've got to sympathise with the impatience and despair of the british taxpayer at that time.

By the way, was the fact that this car carries a regular registration plate an indication that it (this particular example) was eventually sold as a regular road car (I thought that there was a special registration required for cars that hadn;t undergone crash-testing, even in those days?).

[Doug Nye]

Spen King and his team's Rover BS Coupe was PHENOMENAL in its dynamics and road behaviour by the standards of the time - the prototype body was merely a skin to make it decent and to comply with road traffic Act legal requirements. The fact that the suits of BL killed its development into production form was one of the many shots those numbskulls fired into their own feet, and into the dying carcass of the British motor industry.

DCN

[JtP]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vitesse2
[B]Found it September 1979. It was called (unbelievably) the Rover BS . And had it gone into production, I'm sure it would have featured in our ugly road cars list - to my eye it bears more than a passing resemblance to the Jensen-Healey too.

This was a basic test prototype to see how well the bits worked, which they did.

Now put it in production with a 1965 Le Mans Rover BRM bodyshell.

[2F-001]

As an aside, I'd hitherto never thought of a pair of SUs as objects of sufficient beauty to merit an artfully styled, glass display cabinet...

[Ray Bell]

Obviously, production versions would have had anodised versions...

Three colours were planned, each of them co-ordinated with three of the nine proposed body paint colours.

An LED display was to have been put in the rear numberplate recess to advise following drivers of the current fuel consumption level. SUs are like that...

[Ian McKean]

The number plate suggests it was registered between Aug 66 and Aug 67.

[bill moffat]

..and talking of sporty Rovers of the period who remembers Roy Pierpoint's Gp.2 Rover 4500 of 1970 vintage ? 345bhp in a Rover 2000 bodyshell..great stuff.

[Ray Bell]

A similar thing was done here by Jim Smith...

Grossly decorated with a huge camel on the side... something to do with burning its excrement wrapped in paper and dangling from the mouth.

His son these days posts on the Procar forum.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Ian McKean
The number plate suggests it was registered between Aug 66 and Aug 67.

January to July 1967 The date change on suffixes was Dec 31st until the end of 1966 (D suffix). 1967 was the first year it changed on August 1st, so E only ran for 7 months.

BTW, if anyone else would like a copy of that article as a .Zip file just PM me your email address.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by bill moffat
..and talking of sporty Rovers of the period who remembers Roy Pierpoint's Gp.2 Rover 4500 of 1970 vintage ? 345bhp in a Rover 2000 bodyshell..great stuff.

Wasn't that at least quasi-works? - Repco or Traco-Olds engine in it, so at least a cousin of the Rover V8? Lovely looking thing.

Hey, what about the King/Wilks Rover F2?

pete

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by petefenelon


Wasn't that at least quasi-works? - Repco or Traco-Olds engine in it, so at least a cousin of the Rover V8? Lovely looking thing.


pete

I think so, although it ran under the guise of Bill Shaw Racing. Leyland stickers were evident so I suspect Auntie may have given her grudging approval...

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by bill moffat


I think so, although it ran under the guise of Bill Shaw Racing. Leyland stickers were evident so I suspect Auntie may have given her grudging approval...

I think Roger Enever shared it with Roy in long-distance races too - which again points to it being at least partly "in the family" even though Roger's lot were in with MG!

pete

[MarkWill]

My friend tells me that the car was built up from bits - even some Vauxhall ones (apparently the steering rack may have been from Vauxhall). He also mentioned that he had heard of a Brabham-tuned engine that was at one time considered as a way of pepping up the Rover line. It was supposed to be good for over 300 BHP

According to him, the main rival for this car was considered to be Triumph (not the E-type jag, as this was already thought of as beginning to age when the car was being developed. A major problem with the body, he says, was that there was no space for a spare wheel , and at one time they considered a smaller wheel, or an inflatable one (way ahead of its time?). He claims that the roadholding was exceptional in this car, and he believes that it outperformed the Lotus Europa (which may have been one of the inspirations?). He sends his thanks for the copy of the article which I passed on to him from Vitesse2. He assures me that he's looking for the photo of the wind tunnel model and the drawing of the intended body, as he claims that it was intended to be much more curvy. He agrees with everyone that this was a major missed oppertunity. :

[Ray Bell]

Triumph seemed to have the major say in all these dealings as Leyland combined with BMC and Jaguar...

The Austin Healey 4000, for instance, was axed because Triumph already had two 6-cylinder sports cars... the GT6 and the TR6... and there was also the E-type in the group.

Fortuitously, the prototypes were saved and provide the world with a glimpse of just how good the 15 year old Healey could become. Shame none have the special head that was made for the RR alloy engine, however.

Possibly the fact that the TR7 was in the planning stages might have been a part of the problem with the Rover, perhaps it perceived image didn't suit management?

[flat-16]

Originally posted by Ian McKean
The number plate suggests it was registered between Aug 66 and Aug 67.

I really should stop lending books to people as I do not have it to hand, but according to a book I have on Alvis, they had a mid-engined coupe that could achieve 60mph in 6.3 seconds, and was intended to retail for half the price of an E-Type at the time of the Rover takeover. Apparently 3 prototypes were built, of which one resides at the Transport Museum in Coventry - was this the same car as the BS?

Rover consumed Alvis in mid '67 IIRC, so it would be rather coincidental if the BS was a separate project?

Not wanting to knock a dead dog when it's down, but from what I gathered, Rover had minimal input to the car, and it was near complete before the merger occurred - anyone confirm?

You really don't want to get into what happened to the Issigonis-designed Alvis V8 when the merger was announced...

Justin

[Patrick Fletcher]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Spen King and his team's Rover BS Coupe was PHENOMENAL in its dynamics and road behaviour by the standards of the time - the prototype body was merely a skin to make it decent and to comply with road traffic Act legal requirements. DCN

Could this developed Rover BS Coupe been the all wheel drive car that we all would have driven or wanted to in that era?