29 replies to this topic

[Gary C]

while again looking at the video of last years' Goodwood Revival Meeting, it struck me that there must be a fair few Jaguar C-type and D-types still around. Anyone know how many were produced originally, and how many survive?? I'm obviously not interested in 'replicars'!!!

[D-Type]

While looking for something else, I once came across a couple of sites on the net listing all the chassis of C and D types with potted histories.
On Google try searching for Jaguar and Manussis (as a purchaser of C and D types he appears in both lists).

[Joe Fan]

I am not sure how many C and D-Types are still around without looking but there can't be that many since Jaguar only built about 50 some odd C-Types and 80 some-odd D-Types (or was it the other way around?). The D-Types weren't really as successful in sales as Jaguar had hoped and as a consequence of this, a small number of these chassis (that were intended to be D-Types) were made into Jaguar XKSS--which essentially was a passenger model rather than a race version.

I have a good friend that used to be a Jaguar dealer in KC during the 60's and in the past, he had a silver C-Type and a XKSS that was exactly like the Steve McQueen XKSS. These cars would probably fetch a million dollars today. He got a call some time back about a luggage rack that he had, which was needed for a XKSS show car. He must have been the only guy in the country, perhaps the world, to have one.

[Ray Bell]

...and all or most of them were destroyed in a fire at the factory, or a warehouse or something.

I'm sure that there were more D-types than C-types.

[lanciaman]

There are only 18 legitimate XKSS'

in the world. 16 survived the 1957 factory fire that destroyed the tooling and jigs and 9 cars in production; two race cars were later factory converted to Ss.

The reason for building the SS was homologation. Jaguar wanted to have 50 road cars for the SCCA.

I have a friend who raced an SS, and a couple years ago converted it back to street use because the car was just too valuable for the racetrack any longer.

[BS Levy]

Hmmm. I remember hearing somewhere (in a bar, most likely) that Jaguar built the 16 XKSS models to use up all their old D-Type parts and turn them into money after Jaguar retired their factory team and the D's weren't really competitive anymore. Not a particularly practical street car, but absolutely gorgeous and very fast by the standards of the day. I think they would've blown off the Corvettes and Ferrari GTs of the day, but, as you say, Jag didn't build enough of them and so the SCCA classed them as "modifieds" and they had to run in the same class (C-Modified, if memory serves) as the pukka D-Types. I had a race in the late Bud Schaefer's XKSS at Savannah a few years back and really enjoyed the experience!
Another interesting tidbit supporting the above notion is that after the famous "factory fire" that ended XKSS production, the manufacture of all of Jaguar's other lines came back onstream pretty quickly. Hmmmm again....

[lanciaman]

Originally posted by BS Levy
I had a race in the late Bud Schaefer's XKSS at Savannah a few years back and really enjoyed the experience!

Burt: lucky you! That's the one converted back to street use after Bud died. Last time I saw it, it was in pieces on its way back to a streeter. As you say, not very practical, but I fell in love with the car when R&T did a road test Way Back When.

[lanciaman]

Originally posted by BS Levy
I had a race in the late Bud Schaefer's XKSS at Savannah a few years back and really enjoyed the experience!

Burt: lucky you! That's the one converted back to street use after Bud died. Last time I saw it, it was in pieces on its way back to a streeter. As you say, not very practical, but I fell in love with the car when R&T did a road test Way Back When.

[David Birchall]

According to Andre Whyte in his two part "Jaguar Racing history: Jaguar, Sports Racing and Works Competition Cars to 1953" and the companion "Jaguar, Sports racing and Works Competition cars from 1954" there were 54 "C" Types and 87 "D" Types including XKSS. Mr Whyte was regarded as the authority on Jaguar racing cars.

[marat]

Last year I heard about a book being a chassis by chassis story of the C jaguar.
Maybe someone here had it in hands...
I heard of Pagnibon's car which was a complete wreck being rebuilt and put on sale some years ago. Probably difficult to know how many tue C survive.

[David McKinney]

marat -
David Birchall, for one, has the book in question (see the post above yours) and so do I

[marat]

David, I know White's books. The book title is "the C type register". Hornton promised me to have it at Essen last year, but I did'nt go to Essen.

[MarkWill]

Hello,

Recognizing that this might be a tricky one to answer, how many D-type Jags were built before the factory fire stopped production? Were there any others built (by Jaguar) from spare bits afterwards?

I'm just through reading "Classic Sports Cars" by Cyril Posthumus - most enjoyable (great pictures - there's even one of Nuvolari in a Jaguar XK120, but sadly no explaination of the illness that stopped him racing in Silverstone in 1950).

Oh yes, and was there ever a Jag C/D hybrid (D-type parts on a modified C-type)?

How many Ecurie Ecosse D-types were there?

[David McKinney]

This question has been asked (and answered) in the past couple of days. See

http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=55327

[dbw]

i believe that of the original 87 D types made a mere 117 survive......;)

[MarkWill]

Thanks David - thats one thread that slipped past the radar

Still curious to know the numbr of EE cars. Anyone?

[Catalina Park]

Originally posted by dbw
i believe that of the original 87 D types made a mere 117 survive......;)

[dmj]

There are probably more "genuine" cars today than were actually built. I remember a letter in C&SC a few years ago explaining three C-Types claiming same identity. One had original chassis, second original bodywork, third original engine... Must be a nightmare for anyone who tries to register them all... IIRC one owner lately purchased second D-type just to reunit some original parts with his car, thus becoming more genuine... and with a replica to spare.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by MarkWill
- there's even one of Nuvolari in a Jaguar XK120, but sadly no explaination of the illness that stopped him racing in Silverstone in 1950).

Post-war, Nuvolari suffered from emphysema, which is a debilitating lung complaint usually associated with smoking, but can also be caused by inhalation of noxious fumes - years of exposure to exhaust gasses probably took their toll on him. Especially when you consider the exotic blends used towards the end of the 30s .... God knows what they put in those! Nitromethane was probably the least volatile part of them.

Tazio's health was poor to very poor throughout his post-war career, which makes his achievements all the more remarkable, especially his epic Mille Miglia drive. Had he been fully fit, who knows what he might have achieved? Oh to have had Nuvolari, Wimille, Farina and Fagioli battling for the 1950 WDC ....

[David McKinney]

Sorry, marat, now you mention it, I remember seeing that book. Updates the Whyte data but I don't know anything about its accuracy

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by MarkWill
Still curious to know the numbr of EE cars.

I think the answer’s seven:
Three production models in 1955
Another customer car in 1956
And finally an ex-works 1955 car, and two from the 1956 team, in 1957

[Ron Scoma]

53 C-Types were built all numbered XKC (XKC 001 to XKC 053). There were a few D type prototype and/or experimental cars built with XKC chassis numbers (XKC 210, 301, 401, 402, 403, 404, and 405); XKD 406 was the first numbered D.

Chassis XKC 023 has been claimed by 4 people a while ago. I think it got sorted out recently but I am not sure.
XKC 020 was stolen in the early 70s and is reported in the Southwest part of the USA.

All XKSS's were first assigned XKD chassis numbers
Mike Argetsinger and I had lunch with the former owner of XKSS 769 (XKD 550) yesterday and I will ask him for more info later today.
It's sort of like Bugs in many ways, there are more "genuine" cars around today than the factory ever built. Not to mention that restamps, cars that have been built around a cylinder head, body part, knock off, etc.
Kind Regards,

Ron Scoma

[DOHC]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Oh to have had Nuvolari, Wimille, Farina and Fagioli battling for the 1950 WDC ....

Quite a field!

[D-Type]

Graham Gauld's Ecurie Ecosse book is inconclusive - it lists six cars and refers to a 7th
he says

1955 production cars
Chassis XKD 501 Reg no MWS 301 Bought new May 1955 The 1956 Le Mans winner
Chassis XKD 502 Reg no MWS 302 Bought new May 1955
Chassis XKD 561 Reg no MWS 303 Bought new March 1956

1955 team car
Chassis XKD 504 Reg no RSF 302 Bought October 1956 Ex-factory long nose car (Le Mans spare)

1956 team cars
Chassis XKD 606 Reg no RSF 301 Bought October 1956 Ex- factory long nosed car - Probably the 1957 winner. Now two cars, one built around the front subframe and one built around the tub.
Chassis XKD 603 Reg no RSF 303 Bought October 1956 Ex- factory long nosed car. Crashed and rebuilt with 602 to make a new 603.

The last sentence implies that they also owned XKD 602.

According to Philip Porter's book, the interim model variously known as the C-Type Mk2, The C/D Type, the prototype D-Type etc had the chassis no XKC054.

You should be able to find fuller details on the websites I identified on the other thread.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
.....Oh to have had Nuvolari, Wimille, Farina and Fagioli battling for the 1950 WDC ....

Having due regard for what did happen... you appear to be ignoring the fact that Fangio gave Farina a hard time.

Or are you concluding that with the other oldies on hand the ring-in from the Argentine wouldn't have got a start? Wimille wasn't dead yet when he recommended Fangio to the Ities, so surely he would still be championing that cause?

And surely Nuvolari would have done a Moss and run a Cisitalia? Just to show them...

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Having due regard for what did happen... you appear to be ignoring the fact that Fangio gave Farina a hard time.

Or are you concluding that with the other oldies on hand the ring-in from the Argentine wouldn't have got a start? Wimille wasn't dead yet when he recommended Fangio to the Ities, so surely he would still be championing that cause?

And surely Nuvolari would have done a Moss and run a Cisitalia? Just to show them...

Just an idle thought ....

But if Wimille (and Varzi and Trossi) had survived to 1950, would there have been room at Alfa for Fangio? Would Alfa have withdrawn in 1949 if those three were still racing? And if they'd stayed, how well would Fangio have done against them in the ACA Maserati?

[Ray Bell]

Yes, it's the old 'with an if...' question, isn't it?

The age of Nuvolari (and Varzi), however, might have made some difference there...

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Yes, it's the old 'with an if...' question, isn't it?

The age of Nuvolari (and Varzi), however, might have made some difference there...

Well maybe, but Fagioli was 52 in 1950. Nuvolari was 58, but I'm sure a fit Tazio would still have had the measure of the Abruzzi Robber. Varzi would have been 'only' 46, Wimille just 42.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
.....Nuvolari was 58, but I'm sure a fit Tazio would still have had the measure of the Abruzzi Robber. Varzi would have been 'only' 46, Wimille just 42.

Sshhh... you don't want the populace of the Readers Comments forum hearing you say that...

This is compelling evidence that drivers in that era had it real easy.

By the way, Fangio was already 39, was he not?

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
This is compelling evidence that drivers in that era had it real easy.

Of course! That 's why those youngsters Moss, Hawthorn and Ascari were unbeatable by all those clapped-out old men ....

Originally posted by Ray Bell
By the way, Fangio was already 39, was he not?

A mere stripling!