16 replies to this topic

[marat]

In an interesting story on the Cooper Maserati V12 cars in a french mag, there is some confusion about their last official race.

The author states that Redman's car (T81B F1 1 67)had been rebuilt to have the same look as the T86. That seems untrue.
But there are photos of T 86 F1 2 67, Scarfiotti's car, race number 15 bearing also number 14.
It seems that the car was alternatively driven at practice by the two drivers, also once Redman
driving with number 15 and Scarfiotti with number 14.
Thanks for helping to sort things out.

[Mac Lark]

Not an official Cooper entry but the last Maser powered start was, I think, Victor Elford at Monaco in 1969.

[Ray Bell]

Yes, TNF member Vic drove one for ...was it Colin Crabbe?... after the works stopped competing.

[Vitesse2]

The chassis numbers given in the Motor Sport report of the race are F1-2-67 (Redman, numbered 14) and F1-1-67 (Scarfiotti, numbered 15). No mention that there was a T81B present. In fact, they had been expecting to run the T86B BRM-engined car, but only one had been finished and that one had not even been tested.

Redman's engine was changed overnight before the race though.

[Roger Clark]

So Motor Sport (not DSJ) says that Redman drove the T86 (F1-2-67) and Scarfiotti the T81B (F1-1-67). Sheldon says the same.

Marat's French magazine says it was the other way round. Doug Nye's Cooper Cars also says that Scarfiotti drove the T86.

[Pedro 917]

Speed World of 23 November 1968 (1968 results - car by car) :

Cooper-Maserati T81B/F1-1-67 V12 : Brian Redman
Practice : 1 min. 28.0 / 21st fastest (row 9)
Race : retired lap 5 - engine and oil leak

Cooper-Maserati T86/F1-2-67 : Lodovico Scarfiotti
Practice : 1 min. 26.3 / 15th fastest (row 6)
Race : retired lap 2 - crash

[marat]

Thanks, Probably confusion for the driver of T86 was due to the fact that both drivers drove
the car during practice.

[Roger Clark]

While we're on (or at least close to) the subject; can anyone tell me when the T81B first appeared. A number of references (Sheldon, oldracingcars.com, the appendix of Cooper Cars), say it was at Monaco. Others say it was at Zandvoort. I can find no mention in contemporary of a new car at Monaco, but I can at Zandvoort.

[marat]

First race of T81B was Monaco. Rindt had for practice a T81 with the new Maserati Engine.

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by marat
First race of T81B was Monaco.

marat, may I ask your evidence for that? I'm not saying it isn't correct, but there is some evidence that it didn't appear until Zandvoort.

[Rob Ryder]

Roger

Sheldon has Rindt in a 81B (F1-1-67) at Monaco with an 81 (F1-3-66) as spare.

Motor Sport magazine (DSJ) says that the Coopers at Monaco where "unchanged to any great extent from the end of 1966" indicating 81's? (No chassis numbers or types listed)

At Zandvoort DSJ reports "Rindts's car was the lighter 1967 car with Hewland gearbox" indicating an 81B? (No chassis numbers or types listed)

Confusing

Rob

[Roger Clark]

Yes, I'd seen those. In addition, Doug Nye says in Cooper Cars: "A new lightweight T81B was assembled...for Rindt in the Dutch GP" (but the Appendix shows the T81B at Monaco). Doug's "History of the Grand Prix Car" says "This chassis (T81B) was first used by Rindt in this fianalised form in the Dutch Grand Prix".

It is possible that "in its finalised form" implies that it appeared earlier, perhaps with ZF gearbox and old style wheels. DSJ's "Rindt's car was the lighter 1967 car with Hewland gearbox" may also imply that the T81B had appeared earlier, otherwise why refer to the lighter 1967 car.

[marat]

The most credible evidence for the T81B beginn at Monaco is Christian Moity's book on the
Monaco GP. Also, as Cooper rented one car to Guy Ligier (T81 F1 7 66) for the 1967 season,
they had only two T81 left, one for Pedro and the other as T car with the new Maserati engine
for Rindt (at Monaco).
Moity says race cars with ZF box.

[Pedro 917]

There is an article in a French magazine (Auto Modelisme # 78 March 2003) about the Cooper Maserati 1966 - 1969. Text by Alain Caussade.
It says about the T81B-F1-1-67 :

The first single-seater built in 1967 was just a temporary model in anticipation of the new T86. On a structural level, the car was hardly modified. It was much lighter though and it distinguished itself from the 1966 version by a more "rounded" silhouette.
A smelting made possible by adopting the V12 "type 10", more confined and henceforth equipped with a 3 valve per cylinder, cylinder head. Finally, she got the Hewland DG 300 gearbox already tested on the F1-3-66 earlier in the season.
Entrusted to Rindt, she makes her debut at Monaco on 7 May where she disappears quickly with transmission problems. 4th in Belgium driven by the Austrian, alternating the handling and engine blow-up problems in Holland and France, she ends up finally in the hands of Attwood in Canada.......

Hope this helps......

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by marat
Also, as Cooper rented one car to Guy Ligier (T81 F1 7 66) for the 1967 season,
they had only two T81 left, one for Pedro and the other as T car with the new Maserati engine
for Rindt (at Monaco).

I think this is very persuasive. The usual works cars in 1966 were F1-3-66, F1-6-66 and F1-7-66. Ligier's car was F1-4-66. He wrote it off at the Nurburgring, damaging himself in the process. He returned to racing at the 1967 Race of Champions were he apparantly drove F1-3-66. At the Silverstone International Trophy he drove F1-7-66 and continued with it until the British Grand Prix when he drove a Brabham as he did for the rest of the season. He did not race at Monaco as his engine blew up at Silverstone.

So the only T81s the works team had left at Monaco were F1-6-66 (which Rodriguez drove) and F1-3-66, which was the spare car with the new Maserati engine. So either Rindt drove the T81B at Monaco, or the works team borrowed back F1-6-66 for this one race. This seems unlikely; and why would they let Ligier have F1-7-66 unless their new car was ready?

Just to make things even more confusing, Sheldon says that Rindt drove the T81B in the Race of Champions, while Cooper Cars say he drove a T81 numbered F1-1-67!

[marat]

At Brands Hatch Rindt's car had a Hewland gearbox (Autosport march 24 1967). Autosport
states 81B on gid for Rindt and 81B for Pedro on results!
The Caussade story in Auto modelisme accounts that the car with Hewland box was T81 F1 3 66.
But with old engine as it appears on the photo in Autosport.

[Roger Clark]

I believe that F1-3-66 was the only T81 that had the rear brakes inboard of the hub carriers (like a BRM). THe car in the Autosport picture referred to by Marat has this, so it could be F1-3-66 which would tie up with the Caussade story about the Hewland gearbox.