28 replies to this topic

[Sascha]

Asked 4 his opinion about father and son Villeneuve Nigel Roebuck said the following:

I always feel that I'm far more qualified to talk about Villeneuve pere than Villeneuve fils, primarily because Gilles and I were about the same age, and over time became very good friends, whereas Jacques is obviously of a different generation, and also somewhat less...accessible than his father was.

When I talk to Jacques, I can see and hear much of his father in him – the same directness, the same honesty, the same disregard for PR, the same purist approach to the job of being a Grand Prix driver. But I also see significant differences. As you suggest, Gilles, as well as being the fastest racing driver of his time, was also the most popular with the fans worldwide. He was an honest and friendly man, with a salty sense of irreverent humour, one whose instinct was to trust until given reason not to; an innocent in many ways.

Watch Jacques in an F1 car, and memories of his father are evoked. The style may be less flamboyant, although still extrovert, and there is the same feeling that here is a racer. But Jacques is a harder, darker, man than his father, and a more solitary one, too; where Gilles would happily spend hours in the pit garage, chatting with the mechanics, Jacques, by his own admission, is not 'a team man'.

For all that, I remain a fan, and I think JV's absence from the front end of F1 these last four or five years has been a scandalous waste of a great talent. That said, it should be mentioned that no one made him leave Williams at the end of 1998 – instead of remaining there, he accepted an extraordinarily lucrative offer from the then new BAR team, and since then he has almost never had a competitive car to drive.

In 2003, though, the signs are that BAR is in better shape than ever before, and Jacques at last has a car he can believe in again. After four years in the wilderness, he is ready to remind the world that a great talent has been wasted for way too long, that the name of Villeneuve abides. I think rather too much has been made of this feud with Jenson Button, frankly. Jacques may be a difficult man to get close to, and certainly it's a lot of work to get his trust, but I've never for a second doubted his honesty or integrity. Keep the faith is all I can say...

What do You think? Does JV talk 2 much without delivering results?

With regards statistics he is already more successful than his father.

Anyway, i wud really appreciate it 2 c him again in a competitive car

Sascha

[mclarensmps]

i thought the title read "Jack and Jill Villeneuve"

[MrSlow]

I was also thinking "Jack and Jill", there is a song with that name that I have not heard for maybe 15 years... Anyone remember that one and maybe who did it?

[POLAR]

The loss of a father affects everyone in different ways. Who could tell how the death of Gilles had changed Jacques personality? I for one have a profound dislike for Jacques lack of cordiality, his disgusting mind games, his overall bad attitude towards the other drivers.

Polar

[cheesy poofs]

When I talk to Jacques, I can see and hear much of his father in him – the same directness, the same honesty, the same disregard for PR, the same purist approach to the job of being a Grand Prix driver.

I honestly don't think Gilles had any disregard for PR work, as a matter of fact, how can he compare JV's corporate era to GV's one...? Gilles brother, Jacques, actually didn't like PR work. I know he even lost a major sponsor due to one of his actions.

[se7en_24]

Originally posted by MrSlow
I was also thinking "Jack and Jill", there is a song with that name that I have not heard for maybe 15 years... Anyone remember that one and maybe who did it?

Umm, my school teacher when I was about 5 years old - its a nursery rhyme

[mtl'78]

Actually Gilles was renouned for his aversion to PR work. He was a bit of a strange guy. He only ever ate steak & potatos or hamburgers, prepared at the track by his wife in their ever-present camper. He travelled to every European GP with his entire family in tow, sleeping right outside the pits. He was known to be a late riser and this permitted him to sleep in as late as possible.

He never ate at restaurants, never drank any alcohol, Cocca-Cola only. At the various Ferrari functions througout the year, his normal M.O. was to hide in a corner and slip out the back after 10 mins.

People don't seem to remember that he was often very critical of other drivers and especially the powers that be. He would regularily chastise other drivers for doing half a job (in his opinion), and he had an ongoing feud with Bernie Ecclestone, over the direction F1 was taking.

The biggest contrast in personality from Jacques to Gilles is that Gilles is, as Roebuck puts it, Gilles was an innocent, a trusting personality, while Jacques is more of a cynic. That can probably be explained that Gilles grew up in a very small town in relative poverty and arrived in F1 and Europe wide-eyed, while Jacques grew up in Monaco, but in relative isolation, spending most of his time in boarding schools.

Jacques has always been brutal and uncomprimising in his public statements, even back in 1996. That annoyed some people at the time, but what REALLY annoys some people is that he hasn't changed despite being stuck in the midfield.

[MrSlow]

Originally posted by se7en_24
Umm, my school teacher when I was about 5 years old - its a nursery rhyme

Hehe, ok. Then someone made something else out of it, it was a semi-hit in the eighties. I think the guy who recorded it was some kind of "almost famous" guitar hero. Not important, but I would like to hear that song again

[wawawa]

Originally posted by MrSlow
Not important, but I would like to hear that song again

OK, here goes:

Jacques and Gilles went up to Hill
And passed him on the outside
Jacques broke down, Hill won the crown
And Gilles is somewhere cloud-side

[POLAR]

That annoyed some people at the time, but what REALLY annoys some people is that he hasn't changed despite being stuck in the midfield.

I didnt like him when he was a wdc, didnt like him as a midfielder. Period

Polar

[mtl'78]

Good for you!

[fifi]

well from what i have saw jacques is in the same mould as his father, the raw talent for racing

[SlateGray]

Originally posted by MrSlow
I was also thinking "Jack and Jill", there is a song with that name that I have not heard for maybe 15 years... Anyone remember that one and maybe who did it?

Jack and Jill went up the hill; they each had a buck and a quarter

Jill came down with two and a half.

They sure didn’t go for water.

[The First MH]

Good post mtl'78

[mp4]

Gilles was a bit of a God to us F1 heads, in Canada, when he was around.
Whether he won or lost, it didn't matter. He gave his heart and soul to get the fastest lap.
IIRC, both Jody and Keke said, he was the fastest driver they'd ever met up with. Incredibly quick but, more importantly, fair.
That is the mark of a true champion.
The fact he didn't win in '82 is something we all deal with.
If Gilles were with us today, I have a sneaking suspicion he'd be bitch slapping Jacques.
Jacques IS an amazingly good driver. His public persona needs a lot of work...

[madmac]

Well Jaques V Gilles is a big one & I don't think if Gilles had not died nether party would want a comparision. Further to that I think that if GV had not died when he did JV would be a very diferent person (duh). GV was the first driver I read a bio on and I have to say the man impressed me, the hardship he had to endure those years racing skimobiles etc, till James Hunt 'discovered' him. I find it a bit wierd that JV is the only driver who came to the sport that killed his father and that Pollock an earley influence on him is his manger in later life. I do respect JV has a real racer but I really would love to see what a decent phycologist has to say about him.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by madmac
.....I find it a bit wierd that JV is the only driver who came to the sport that killed his father.....

Not so...

Alberto Ascari came into racing after the death of his father. Likewise he won a World Championship. He also died racing, and his son raced in the sixties as well... though not in F1. F3, I think.

You could almost say the same of Damon Hill, for his father died in a 'plane crash flying home from a test session.

As for mp4's comment, I'd like to add that Alan Jones repeatedly talks about GV with total respect... and he raced alongside of him as you well know. GV had the respect of all the other drivers of his time... now that's a difference... JV doesn't, does he?

Then again, is that the product of the personna, the track performances or simply the time in which he lives?

[masterhit]

I think Roebuck was pretty correct on his judgements about the characters of Jacques (jr) and Gilles.
And he has his right to support Jacques as a fan, which is cool.

I think also to some extent you have to imagine what it would be like to be in Jacques' situation. No father, constantly compared to a man who is still a legend, completely larger than life. It would make you pretty distrustful and as Nigel says, darker, I suppose. The whole thing about Ferrari pissing about with their insurance payments (Here's the source) proves the point that here is a team that had people who adored Gillles, he loved it like his family, and yet there are factions within who could not have cared less. That would make you pretty ****ed up as a youngster having to deal with poor Joann going through all this on her own.

[madmac]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Not so...

Alberto Ascari came into racing after the death of his father. Likewise he won a World Championship. He also died racing, and his son raced in the sixties as well... though not in F1. F3, I think.

You could almost say the same of Damon Hill, for his father died in a 'plane crash flying home from a test session.

As for mp4's comment, I'd like to add that Alan Jones repeatedly talks about GV with total respect... and he raced alongside of him as you well know. GV had the respect of all the other drivers of his time... now that's a difference... JV doesn't, does he?

Then again, is that the product of the personna, the track performances or simply the time in which he lives?

I stand corected ! But I contend the Hill thing is a "sort of" situation.

[shaggy]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


As for mp4's comment, I'd like to add that Alan Jones repeatedly talks about GV with total respect... and he raced alongside of him as you well know. GV had the respect of all the other drivers of his time... now that's a difference... JV doesn't, does he?

Then again, is that the product of the personna, the track performances or simply the time in which he lives?

I think you may be a little bit off.

Hill has always said excellent things about JV (the person and the driver).
Montoya certainly respects him. Even after their fight, he publicly stated that he still wants to be friends with JV; earlier this year, he stated that JV can still be WDC again and that JB is in for a surprise.
HHF certainly defended JV last week and, from what he said, I guess you could conclude he 'respects' him.
Panis and DC could also be added to the number.

shaggy

[oldtimer]

Years ago, after Jacques had won the CART championship, his uncle, also called Jacques, was asked to compare the son and father. "Jacques drives with his head, unlike me and his father," was his reply. I thought that was a sound reply, and it certainly applied to his CART season (particularly winning his Indy 505) and first 2 F1 seasons.

Now it seems, Jacques does not talk with his head, and somehow his driving talent is not imposing itself on his racing, which could never be said of his father.

[The Fazz]

Originally posted by oldtimer
Years ago, after Jacques had won the CART championship, his uncle, also called Jacques, was asked to compare the son and father. "Jacques drives with his head, unlike me and his father," was his reply. I thought that was a sound reply, and it certainly applied to his CART season (particularly winning his Indy 505) and first 2 F1 seasons.

Now it seems, Jacques does not talk with his head, and somehow his driving talent is not imposing itself on his racing, which could never be said of his father.

As for driving, you cannot compare Jacques with his dad. Gilles was very gung ho. For every spectacular drive, Gilles has perhaps two equally spectacular crashes. A lot of people forget that Gilles was labelled by Enzo Ferrari as a "high priest of destruction". We also cannot compare the cars today and that of Gilles' time. Today's cars are the epitome of precision, any amount of tail slide and you're basically screwed. Gilles used to overdrive his cars - and that worked in his day (usually). Today, if you overdrive, you're in the gravel.

[Jhope]

Jacques and Gilles
Went up the hill
And raced to another corner.
Jacques broke down
And broke his crown
And Gilles won there after.


So, can anyone tell me who I like better in this family?

[Schummy]

I cannot compare Jacques and Gilles in the raw talent aspect. IMHO Gilles was one of the very few most talented drivers post-70 (I didn't see F1 before 1970), Jacques is a great driver. That's the difference, in my mind.

[AF Prodrive]

I've often theorized that the circumstances of his father's experiences with Didier Pironi would have contributed to Jacques' hardened demeanor and reluctance to trust others.

I know it's affected me, and I never even met the man.

Interesting quotes from Roebuck, very thought provocative.

Thanks, Sascha.

Regards,
AFp

[gerry nassar]

Originally posted by Jhope
Jacques and Gilles
Went up the hill
And raced to another corner.
Jacques broke down
And broke his crown
And Gilles won there after.


So, can anyone tell me who I like better in this family?

Obviously Jaques! As your poem incinuates that Jaques was leading - had a mechanical failure and that left Gilles to pick up the pieces ;)

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by The Fazz
.....Gilles was labelled by Enzo Ferrari as a "high priest of destruction". We also cannot compare the cars today and that of Gilles' time. Today's cars are the epitome of precision, any amount of tail slide and you're basically screwed. Gilles used to overdrive his cars - and that worked in his day (usually). Today, if you overdrive, you're in the gravel.

But Enzo appreciated that occasional 'destruction' was a price you paid to have the fastest drivers...

Regarding the precision required... Gilles drove in the era in which sideways motoring was probably the most damaging to your lap times. They had sliding skirts on those cars, with ceramic skids on them, springs that pushed them down to the ground and tiny shock absorbers that controlled the movement.

Getting sideways and skipping onto a kerb could damage the skirt and cut downforce by a big percentage.

I agree, there are some pics of him that show that he knew how to throw it around, but it must be remembered that the skirts had to be protected.

[rstone]

My opinion is that Jacques has no relation with Gilles The Great!!!
Gilles was a tremendous fearless driver, he was something uncommon in his time when all the drivers were brave. But he has a part of his father's braveness, just remember his disagreeing with the other drivers to quit the qualification cause of the heavy rain... I think that Gilles was an angel out of the car and a devil into the car. Instead his son is a devil out of the car and an angel (in most situations into the car-we haven't seen any fight from him the last years) into the car.

[Jhope]

Originally posted by gerry nassar


Obviously Jaques! As your poem incinuates that Jaques was leading - had a mechanical failure and that left Gilles to pick up the pieces ;)

BASTARD! NO!