238 replies to this topic

[rms]

Greg,

Tell me if I am right !

The right hand corner behind you is the first corner after the start straight ....... the pic of the car is the left hand part of the first set of esses .... followed by sharp right.....

a short straight ... and another ess bend, left then right (with spectators atop the rock embankment) .... followed by an opening left hander with the finish line on the crest.

 

Erol

[GMACKIE]

You win    Better leave it at that, Erol....I'm about clapped out.

[DanTra2858]

Gee Greg I glad you spelt "Clapped" correctly, it could have been ugley, lol.

[Lee Nicolle]

I know I should have looked but has anyone mentioned Collingrove?  Been in action around 60 years and still going strong.

Still very much the same except turn 1. The buggers wont allow you to straddle the tyres now! It was the quick line and I have been silly enough to turn in a 3 metres early and then have to straighten!

Very bumpy. Very narrow. My old Torana had the front tyres grabbing up in the top. I thought I had bump steer,, nah just full bump braking. No wonder the Falcon is a monster there with near twice the power! And about 1/2 a second faster!

 

One thing though. There is quite a few younger people playing. Unlike most facets of the sport.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by RobertSales
Apparently after fitting the V8 to the Ballot James Gullan sold the Ballot engine to the previous owner of the the Briggs Cunningham car (now in the Collier collection at the Revs Institute in the USA).
"Jumbo" Goddard helped broker a deal between Ron Edgerton and Briggs Cunningham where Ron swapped his fully restored 1904 Cotton Desgouttes for the original engine.

You could be right there, too...

It's been a long time since I heard the story and such details could have been slipping out of my mind over all of that time.

I agree with Ray in doubting the cars' hillclimb record, hence my interest in the car.
Putting that aside, its pre 1940 track record is impressive. Track records at:- Maroubra Speedway, Nowra, Aspendale, Melbourne Motordrome, a1so at Dromana Beach, FTD Strathpine Road circuit and 113MPH at Ninety Mile Beach in 1930.
Ray, you mentioned SA and Wirlinga, can you tell me more about that.

'Strathpine Road circuit'? Where was that? What was at Nowra?

Looking at Hans' hillclimb list, I note there's listing showing Jack Nelson as the winner in an East Coast event in his Ford V8-powered Ballot. I have no doubt whatever that the only time Nelson's car left the West Coast was for Lobethal in 1940. I believe it's possible that this event, the 1937 Mount Tarrangower climb, was won by the Indianapolis Ballot.

I found wins listed at Mount Martha (Cooper in record time) and 1933 and 1935 at Oliver's Hill driven by Bray.

I've got a picture around here somewhere of the line-up of cars at Wirlinga, I'm sure the Ballot is in that, while it definitely raced at Lobethal in 1940. Gullan actually wrote about that event for Motor Sport magazine.

[DanTra2858]

Ray there were races on 7 Mile Beach where Smithy took off to go to New Zealand & at the Naval Air Base, both venues close to Nowra, I will have to delve further into History to find out when this took place.

[Ray Bell]

The Naval base ones were 1947 and 1952...

I don't think this car came to NSW to compete - apart from Wirlinga - after the early thirties. Of course, I could well be wrong.




.

Edited by Ray Bell, 21 February 2015 - 00:09.

[RobertSales]

Yes, I would like to know where Strathpine Circuit is also

They held races at Gerringong, just above Nowra. That is possibly the Nowra reference.

According to my records there wasn't a climb in 1937 at MtTarrangower. The Advance Maldon Association having  decided to abandon the event. If anyone has other information please let me know.

Lobethal 1940 saw two V8 Ballots entered. The James Gullan Indianapolis car and the Western Australian car which was a 2litre chassis.

Collingrove is the oldest continuously run hillclimb in the country. Have only entered once, what a challenge. Hope to get back this year.

Seems like most of you blokes are from NSW. I am trying to trace a car from the 50s? that possibly raced at Mt Druitt. It is a single seater probably space frame with Fiat mechanicals and Offenhauser engine. All I have is a photo and a name "Dick Revell" Any help appreciated.

[275 GTB-4]

I think you will find that the Hillclimb was on Nowra Hill which has the Naval Air Station RADAR turning on its peak...

[cooper997]

Robert you're probably already aware. But just in case you're not... from the programmes.

 

2/1/39 Lobethal AGP

Third Event 2.30pm

11 J Gullan Vic Ballot 10mins (crossed out)

 

1/1/40 Lobethal

South Australian "HUNDRED"

First event 12.30pm

5 J Nelson Ford Ballot 8 mins

7 J Gullan Ford Ballot 8 mins.

 

Lobethal "FIFTY"

Second Event 3.45pm

5 J Nelson (WA)  Ford Ballot 4 mins

7 J Gullan (Vic) Ford Ballot 4 mins.

 

(1940 Driver descriptions)

 

5 J Nelson - Ford / Ballot . W.A.  A newcomer to S.A from Perth, who from all reports is a splendid driver, who has a done very well at home, and who has a car capable of remarkable speeds.  

 

 7 - J Gullan - Ford / Ballot. Vic.  Another car with a new engine. May the new engine bring him better luck than he has previously experienced in South Australia.

 

 

Stephen

[RobertSales]

The Nowra event is listed as a 2mile sand circuit (1927). They did race on Gerringong beach in the 20s and 30s. Need to look into that a bit more.

Strathpine Road is in Strathpine a suburb of Brisbane, Ballot there in 1934. Possibly rural in the 20s and 30s?

Thanks' for that Stephen. More for the list.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
I think you will find that the Hillclimb was on Nowra Hill which has the Naval Air Station RADAR turning on its peak...

Mick, when you post something like this I'm sure you aren't aware of how much trouble it can cause...

There's a very good chance there was never any hillclimb held at or near Nowra in the period involved. There are none mentioned on Leif Snellman's site, and if there had been such a climb there is a 99% chance that Brian Lear would have found mention of it in his newspaper searches and advised Hans to put into that list.

Your comment, however, could cause someone to spend endless hours looking for evidence of such an event.

If you know that such a climb was held and it's been missed, you should post that information.

Robert has suggested that his Nowra reference is to races at Gerringong Beach, he is probably right.

Now a note for Robert...

The comment about 'better luck than he (Jim Gullan) experienced in South Australia' might well be explained by his connection with the Nelson car.

When Jack bought the wrecked 1922 Targa Florio Ballot after its Phillip Island crash, he didn't send all the parts back to WA. Among the bits left behind was the fuel tank, which was of significant capacity.

Gullan acquired this tank and fitted it to his Wolesley Hornet for the 1936 SA Centenary GP, a race over 150 miles, and he ran off the road and damaged the car in this event. The reason he gave for running off the road was that, after half distance or so in the race, the fuel surge in the Ballot tank made the car unstable in the fast corner in which he left the road.

Gullan, therefore, had something to do with each of the three Ballots which raced in Australia.

Further to that, the car as built up by Nelson had Ballot running gear, but after he blew up the 2-litre engine before he raced the car he fitted a Ford V8. The chassis, however, was not Ballot at all. That had been left in Victoria, he replaced it with a Chev 4 frame.

Later, of course, he built the Ballot Olds on a touring Ballot chassis.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by RobertSales
.....Strathpine Road is in Strathpine a suburb of Brisbane, Ballot there in 1934. Possibly rural in the 20s and 30s?
Thanks' for that Stephen. More for the list.

Yes, that part of Strathpine was 'rural' right through to the sixties...

But there was no racing there. The first semblence of a road race in Queensland was at Woody Point in 1936, the Ballot was not there.

But I have seen photos of a location in Strathpine where the RACQ sporting members ran a sprint across the flats.

What is the source of all your information, or the stuff you're questioning, Robert?

[RobertSales]

Have received an email with a link to a page advertising the 2003 celebrations for the racing at Strathpine. Strathpine was an abandoned WW2 airstrip that was used from 11 Aug.1946 to 11Oct.1959. Was then turned into a housing estate.(heard that before?)

Trouble is on my list the Ballot was ther in 1934??

 

A lot of the information I have on the Ballot was sent to me by a journalist in England. This included the pre 1940 competition history and a copy of a letter written by James Gullan, in 1940, to another 1919 Ballot owner. About half the letter is about Ballot business and the other half about the race at Lobethal and the other entries.

[Ray Bell]

Strathpine's post-war racing circuit was a wartime airstrip...

If the person who e-mailed that link to you was from here he's wasting your time as he knows you are asking about pre-war events.

Is it possible the 'Strathpine Road' you have mentioned is somewhere other than in Queensland, for instance in Victoria?

[DanTra2858]

Silverdale hillclimb 1960/61



From l/r, Allan Forrester, Phil Chittock, John White, myself behind John, Ron Imisides owner/driver of TC, Ken Christiphers, Neil Podmore & Sitting Ron Harris

Edited by DanTra2858, 24 February 2015 - 04:25.

[DanTra2858]

Report of Douglas Park Hill Climb from South Coast Times 16 March 1959

Edited by DanTra2858, 24 February 2015 - 04:49.

[DanTra2858]

Report on Death at Jamberoo Hill Climb in 1959, at the end of the report it mentions 2 accidents, it is refering to the Ashmore MG TC accident.

 

Edited by DanTra2858, 24 February 2015 - 05:15.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by RobertSales
.....Ray, you mentioned SA and Wirlinga, can you tell me more about that.

I can list two other SA entries for the car, Robert...

The 1936 South Australian Centenary GP at Victor Harbor, it was entered but it seems the entry was given to another competitor (Arthur Terdich's Bugatti). The name on the entry was H. Rosborough.

The 1939 AGP at Lobethal had Gullan entered in this car. But he damaged the engine in practice or a preliminary race and scratched from the Grand Prix.

This would presumably be the last time it ran under Ballot power.



.

Edited by Ray Bell, 25 February 2015 - 13:12.

[275 GTB-4]

Report of Douglas Park Hill Climb from South Coast Times 16 March 1959

Entertaining article written by the "Doc"...and interesting that it is about the 1st meeting for Douglas Park.

[275 GTB-4]

It appears that Albert and Keith Bridge were involved in running the Nowra Hillclimb...amazing what a little research can throw up rather than just throwing stones. I have heard the climb used the current BTU Road (named after the RN Establishment Bombs, Torpedo Unit) but it may have had another name before the war.

also mentioned in the terrifically informative article below is a Hillclimb at Albion Park Rail...

and even, a thin KB!

http://www.pccv.org/...bert-Bridge.pdf

Shirley, someone from the South Coast can tell us more about these Hillclimbs?

Edited by 275 GTB-4, 25 February 2015 - 22:19.

[275 GTB-4]

Report on Death at Jamberoo Hill Climb in 1959, at the end of the report it mentions 2 accidents, it is refering to the Ashmore MG TC accident.

So Dan, Wallaby Hill Rd Jamberoo was the venue for the Hillclimb, it certainly looks twisty in parts

[DanTra2858]

I believe the Hill Climb that is spoken of just west of Albion Park would be Huntley Hill, the only other Hill Climb in the Illawarra area was Jamberoo.

[Catalina Park]

..also mentioned in the terrifically informative article below is a Hillclimb at Albion Park Rail...

Albion Park and Albion Park Rail are two different places, but do go on!

Edited by Catalina Park, 26 February 2015 - 07:18.

[275 GTB-4]

Albion Park and Albion Park Rail are two different places, but do go on!

and APR is far enough away from Dapto to be (possibly) another hill...who knows?
 
Also went up Fountaindale Road (off the Jamberoo Road) today up the Saddleback, that would have been a great Hillclimb as well...
 
Escarpment = Hillclimbs!

[RobertSales]

Yes Strathpine Road could be any where in Aus.

The link I received was handy because it had contact numbers for the 2003 event, which could be used in further research in that area.

Any information is helpful.

[Ray Bell]

Which link is that?

And because it seems that Mick is determined to undermine any interchange, could you please add some reference to your responses so we can be sure to which question or answer you are responding?

[275 GTB-4]

Had a go at Arthurs Seat climb today...what a hill! I will get some pics up later.

 

Controversial from day one as far as permission to run the event was concerned.

 

Chatting to a fella who was there at all 10 (?) events...he said that one of the strange requirements for the event was no rear-engined cars...but why?

[Librules]

Are you saying there was an organised run up the hill today, or was it as a member of the driving public?   It was a great event and ended far too soon.  

[275 GTB-4]

Are you saying there was an organised run up the hill today, or was it as a member of the driving public?   It was a great event and ended far too soon.

Just me touring the Mornington Peninsular...I lived there in the 60s.

Lots of politics and NIMBY's contriving to deny people enjoying Motorsport by the sound of it...

[tracken]

Warren Bloomfield driving "Pronta", JWF Italia, Nota chassis and repco grey Holden, red with twin white stripes , he has passed away ( Blooms the chemist), do you remember this car Greg ?

[Ray Bell]

I'm not real familiar with these cars... but maybe these pics from Claire will help?


Inverell Hillclimb, 1959


Lowood

Thanks for the information re Bloom's Chemists. Something I never knew.

[GMACKIE]

Warren Bloomfield driving "Pronta", JWF Italia, Nota chassis and repco grey Holden, red with twin white stripes , he has passed away ( Blooms the chemist), do you remember this car Greg ?

One of the few advantages of being 'old', tracken, is that I do remember people such as Warren Bloomfield.

[john medley]

RobertSales, the Fiat device you seek was built by Nat Buchanan as a 1 1/2 litre singleseater, later bought by speedway's Ray Revell who inserted the Offenhauser engine from his ex Johnny Balch Offy, later completely reengineered to become I think the singleseat Barclay MG which Col James wrote off at Mt Druitt

Tracken, when I knew him he was Warren BLOMFIELD not Bloomfield (I went to school with his brother Blair). I agree he was a chemist at (at least) South Bathurst, but I question the Blooms the Chemist story.

137 above is Bruce Leer's Milano MG, more recently campaigned until a few years ago by John Scott.

[Ray Bell]

John, you have a CD of the Claire Russell pics...

Can you pick out these cars from that?

[Dick Willis]

Ray, are you sure the pic of the Bruce Leer Milano is at Lowood ? On the right of the pic is part of one of the Bruderlin and Thomas "Cigar" MGs, I am not aware that they ever ran outside of NSW. Said Cigar might be the Max Williams car which often ran at Lowood but it always ran as an open wheeler whereas the Cigar in the pic clearly has a rudimentary "mudguard" indicating it is a "sports" car.

 

John, the current owner has repainted the ex Bruce Leer Milano MG  babysxxt orange as he apparently has some information that is was this colour before it wore its more familiar green, do you ever recall seeing it orange ?

[DanTra2858]

Orange???? The only Orange cars that I can remember from 1959 on until the mid 1960,s were the Jack Myers cars, there seemed to be a written law that Orange was Jacks colour & Jacks only. Thats my memory of Orange for what it,s worth.

[275 GTB-4]

John, the current owner has repainted the ex Bruce Leer Milano MG  babysxxt orange as he apparently has some information that is was this colour before it wore its more familiar green, do you ever recall seeing it orange ?

Maybe I have lead a sheltered life Dick, although I did raise three lovely children, but never have I heard the term "babysxxt orange"...it was always "babysxxt yellow"

[Ray Bell]

Dick. you're right, if we can get back to intelligent conversation...

It's Bathurst, April 18, 1960, I'd missed a small tag on the page.