46 replies to this topic

[Barry Boor]

During the next couple of days I shall be posting a number of images from the above meeting on my Images website.

Here is an example of the type of vehicle that was there, with 2 other classic historic items....

[Barry Boor]

The aforementioned images are now available to be viewed by those with any interest.

Please visit http://members.atlas..._boor/vscc.html

[condor]

Great pics

Thanks

[Aurelio Lampredi]

Excellent pics Barry. Keep up the nice work with other meetings.... Thanks

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Barry Boor

Here is an example of the type of vehicle that was there, with 2 other classic historic items....

"So, David....is this one of these 250F things you've been on about?"

"Good grief, Roger! I thought even a football fan would know better than that............. "

[Roger Clark]

Anybody can tell that's a Formula 2 car.

Must be an A6GCM - but why is it in Team Lotus colours?

[Aurelio Lampredi]

I am not an expert (unfortunately... ) but isn't it a Connaught?

[David Beard]

Some of my pics...









It was a nice day.....

[Ray Bell]

Shame there's no IDs on the pics, Barry...

Or is there some ulterior motive for that?

[Barry Boor]

Ray, put it down to ignorance on my part and the fact that I was too tight to purchase a programme!

But I'll give it a go...

Light blue car;
Blue car;
Steering wheel of blue car;
Emeryson;
Cooper Bristol;
Lister Jaguar;
Lister Jaguar;
D-type;
Very old Cooper;
Not so old Cooper;
2 Cooper Monacos;
Mediumly old Cooper;
Lotus 24 with Brabham's autograph on the engine cover;
Real Maserati 250F;
Not-so-real Maserati 250F;
Surprisingly good condition Testa Rossa ;)
Bugattis;
Connaught plus 2 TNEffers;
Nice green car;
Quite nice blue car;
Sharknose Ferrari;
Bentley Special race-winner;
Same nice green car from the other side;

I must say that I am a little doubtful about the Sharknose Ferrari!

There, will that do?

[Ray Bell]

Funny, I was looking at the two Cooper Monacos and I decided they looked a little different... in fact I thought they might be Elvas... but they couldn't be. The Monaco we had here had a different treatment around the rear end, the air scoops, I seem to recall, were built into the humps for the wheels.

As for the Sharknose, that would be the special one built for Ronnie Hoare, wouldn't it?

The nice blue car (No 104) is an Alta, I'd say... and then I'm curious about the Bugatti wheels on what looks like a Cooper Alta or something (the nice green car shown in two pics).

Great work there, Barry... how's the Missus?

[cm50]

Originally posted by Aurelio Lampredi
I am not an expert (unfortunately... ) but isn't it a Connaught?

Im not an expert either but it is definately a Conaught

[David McKinney]

The Maserati references to the Connaught picture were a joke

[David McKinney]

And now a slightly more specific run-down of the pictures in Barry's link, top to bottom, left to right:
‘Brooklands’ Riley Nine, modern Riley special
modern Riley special, Emeryson F1
Cooper-Bristol, Lister-Jaguar
another Lister-Jag, Jaguar D-type replica
Cooper T41, Cooper T45
Cooper Monaco, Cooper Monaco
Cooper T45, Lotus 24
real 250F, Cameron Millar 250F
recent Ferrari 250TR, ditto
Bugatti 35B, Connaught A-Type
Alta F2, Norris Special (Alta)
FJ Lotus, Pacey-Hassan Bentley
Alta F2

[Mark Ballard]

The top left Riley is a Treen not a Brooklands


Mark

[Aurelio Lampredi]

Originally posted by cm50


Im not an expert either but it is definately a Conaught

So, it's a Connaught....

[Mark Ballard]

Better late than never. Unfortunately it takes be a bit longer to post as I use one of those out of date cameras that use film.









Hope you enjoy them.
Mark

[Roger Clark]

I was talking to Barry as we wandered around Silverstone about crash helmets for drivers in these races. It's difficult to criticise anybody for taking measures to protect themselves, but the modern full face helmet looks so out of place in these cars. It's even worse when they are painted in the modern style. I wouldn't want anybody to wear a linen helmet in a race but even a 1960's style helmet as worn by John Horton in the red Bugatti is more appropriate in my opinion. What do others think?

THanks to all those who have posted pictures. It was a typical VSCC meeting; enthusiasts racing for the fun of it, hardly a sign of any commercial interests, and a surprisingly large crowd. Even Silverstone looked good in the spring sunshine. They have been doing a lot of work, presumably for the Grand Prix. Let's hope it's worth it.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Mark Ballard
The top left Riley is a Treen not a Brooklands
Mark

The B-Type Connaught must be a Friday testing shot. Whose was it?

Roger
Agreed on the hats. The 250TR driver's lid in Mark's pic is an example of avoidable non-period treatment

[Ray Bell]

Agreed about the helmets... and I would go one step further... paint them in a colour typical of the period, so that they blend into the scene even better.

Note the pic in the lowest pic... much better.

Nice pics... now some ID?

[Doug Nye]

I'm hearing that the meeting was run on the International circuit, the course car - a 2003 Invicta???? - crashed, the driver was severely injured, the rest of the races thereafter were slashed to four laps only and the last race of the day cancelled. What happened really? DCN

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
I'm hearing that the meeting was run on the International circuit, the course car - a 2003 Invicta???? - crashed, the driver was severely injured, the rest of the races thereafter were slashed to four laps only and the last race of the day cancelled. What happened really? DCN

The car was shunted on the exit to Bridge, as far as I could make out. The wreckage revealed that both ends had been in contact with the scenery, the frontal impact being hard enough to rip off the front left suspension and wheel. Not an impressive way to conduct a demo lap, messing up the proceedings and all, but I hope the driver will be OK.

[dbw]

just a comment on the headgear...in most cases [here in the US] the type of helmet is strictly regulated....however when you sit in a t-35 and contemplate all the sharp items inches away from your face,a full coverage unit seems a really good idea....and considering protrusions such as advance/****** lever and the steering wheel and [gulp] column pointing directly at your upper chest cavity...then perhaps a kevlar vest might be in order.
another interesting point is fire suits are also required...but in some very early cars [where you sit ON it rather than IN it, i always thought full leathers would be a better choice...

[Doug Nye]

This 'inappropriate attire' question is a real pet hate of mine, one which led to a really rather rare total sense of humour failure by DCN which I suffered on the startline at an early Goodwood Festival when I was about to set off in a Ferrari Monza and an officious steward had a real whitter at me for driving in a rugby shirt, with bare arms.

He was probably totally in the right, and I was sadly in the wrong 'cos I simply lit up like the fifth of July and ROASTED him...a lapse which I immediately regretted and the memory of which I still find acutely embarrassing.

That said, I am instinctively uncomfortable seeing modern-day midgets driving great cars in which great men (and the occasional bird) once achieved great feats, while feeling the necessity of wearing fireproof romper suits and sticking their heads in a flower pot.

My good friend Robert Brooks and I were involved in a National Motor Museum Friend's Evening presentation at Beaulieu some years ago and he was asked about the value of F1 memorabilia, crash helmets and suchlike.

While holding forth on such matters he mentioned having to spend around £700 on a latest-spec Kevlar crash helmet plus £500 for the appropriate paint job.

At which I muttered "So much, to protect so little" - forgetting my microphone was still switched on - which brought the house down - gratifying for me, cynical old --- that I am, but a little demeaning for me boss!

I'm even more uncomfortable with mere journalists rigging themselves up in fireproofs and full-face bone-domes to 'track test' great classic cars pre-'70s for publication.

Who on earth are they trying to kid? The 'W' word springs to mind...

...and in any case it demonstrates such a lack of sensitivity for the machinery that in my view it renders invalid their subsequent writings.

If I was the car owner and I saw someone approaching it in an NBC suit, looking as if he was fully expecting to have an immense accident any moment, there's NO WAY I'd let him in the seat.

When I was given the opportunity to drive many wonderful competition cars in the '70s and '80s I never wore a crash helmet - and received various rollickings for it - but it was simply because I wanted to savour the full monty of the car (up to and including the full exhaust frenzy of the V16 BRM ) yet to ensure that I didn't allow myself to get too carried away by it all.

If trying harder, with the owners' encouragement, that was a different matter...

When we started the Goodwood Revival we encouraged drivers to revert to plain colour open-faced helmets, but after some facial injuries were sustained (few of them undeserved in my view) we diplomatically backed down, and the full-face Kevlars crept-in in their full airbrushed Technicolour dayglo 'glory'....Bleeeaaaaggghhhh!

Excuse me - just a minor rant...this time...

[Vitesse2]

Indeed, Doug, the flowerpots do look bloody silly in anything earlier than about 1969. Last year at the FoS I was just settling into my stand seat on the Friday morning, during untimed practice - I wasn't really paying attention to what was on the PA and looked up as a Vanwall went past .... authentic brown 50s helmet .... authentic driver! CASB of course! For a moment I was in a time warp, to a scene I'd never seen in real life: magic!

[O Volante]

I can imagine even worse to come: HANS for historic racers

[David Beard]

I've seen Stirling Moss racing a few times recently in what appears to be a replica of his old Johnson helmet.



If it's the one referred to on this site , it doesn't comply with current standards. How does that work?

http://www.pateyhats...hjcrushhats.htm

[David McKinney]

I believe SM has been given a special dispensation (for which I - for one - am most appreciative)

O Volante:
Don't joke - a HANS device was in use at the VSCC Silverstone meeting last weekend, though as the driver in question is based in the US I suppose he can be forgiven

[Peter Morley]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by David McKinney
[B]

The B-Type Connaught must be a Friday testing shot. Whose was it?
QUOTE]

It is ours (mine & Dad's), Spencer Longland has just completed the restoration (after 10 years!)and Silverstone was due to be its debut, with Simon Diffey driving.

Unfortunately due to a valve guide problem that showed up in Friday testing we didn't race the Connaught. It should be sorted this week, so the car should now debut at next month's Silverstone meeting.

Interesting to see that my old Emeryson was there as well, I didn't see it - but then I wasn't looking for 'out of period' cars, except for Simon Diffey's Lotus 20 which was en-route to Donington.

Our old Bugatti type 37A was also there but didn't run since the 'new-improved' suspension has ruined the handling that was working perfectly well before it was modified!!

[David McKinney]

Before this thread drops off the page...
There was an excellent turnout of TNFers at the meeting:
Mark Ballard
David Beard
Barry Boor
Roger Clark
Alan Cox
criceto
Paul Parker
Ted Walker
Mick Walsh
and possibly others I didn't see
Perhaps we should take over a corner of the bar next time

[David McKinney]

and Peter Morley

Sorry Peter, I should have figured the ownership out from the programme

[Peter Morley]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
I'm hearing that the meeting was run on the International circuit, the course car - a 2003 Invicta???? - crashed, the driver was severely injured, the rest of the races thereafter were slashed to four laps only and the last race of the day cancelled. What happened really? DCN

We had a good view of this amusing incident.
After coming through bridge the back of the Invicta came round and it ended up in the barriers on what should have been its right hand side.

I took some (distant) photos, of the aftermath, which I shall endeavour to post here shortly - of course I missed the action shot, since no one expected anything to be diriving round the circuit between races.

I heard that it was driver error, but given this was the public debut of a new car you would hardly expect it have been anything as dangerous as mechanical failure would you!

Since this incident hospitalised the clerk of the course, it was very lucky that Martin Grant-Peterkin was at the meeting and could replace the clerk, otherwise the meeting would have been cancelled.

[Peter Morley]

Would you buy one of these Invicta tricycles??

[Peter Morley]

Pity the poor Cooper Bristol.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by David McKinney
Before this thread drops off the page...
There was an excellent turnout of TNFers at the meeting:
Mark Ballard
David Beard
Barry Boor
Roger Clark
Alan Cox
criceto
Paul Parker
Ted Walker
Mick Walsh
and possibly others I didn't see
Perhaps we should take over a corner of the bar next time

...and Joe Twyman
(sorry, Joe)

Peter
You must have been next to Trisha Pilkington during the Cooper-Bristol incident - she has some very similar pictures

[Peter Morley]

Originally posted by David McKinney
I believe SM has been given a special dispensation (for which I - for one - am most appreciative)

O Volante:
Don't joke - a HANS device was in use at the VSCC Silverstone meeting last weekend, though as the driver in question is based in the US I suppose he can be forgiven

I also heard that Stirling has been granted special dispensation - since he pointed out that he did plenty of races with such a helmet in the period, he thinks it is not necessary to change now (and is it possible he has some financial connection with the company who sell such helmets....).

What I don't understand is why we are all obliged to use modern helmets, surely it should be personal preference - if you get hurt it was your problem/decision, and given we all sign our lives away before racing there should be no comeback on the organisers anyway (that is the really worrying aspect of the Senna trial).

Along those lines - the roll over bar on our Connaught is removable, when it isn't being raced it will look right and the driver has the option.

Several people have already been using the 'travel cushion' type of neck brace (a piece of nomex clad foam that wraps round your neck) in historic racing, so a Hans device is not surprising, what is surprising is the idea that it might be effective in an old car (modern cars contain the deformable structure, old ones are eant to hit a deformable structure).

[Peter Morley]

Originally posted by David McKinney

...and Joe Twyman
(sorry, Joe)

Peter
You must have been next to Trisha Pilkington during the Cooper-Bristol incident - she has some very similar pictures

Yes, we were sat in the same group.

[Mark Ballard]

Originally posted by David McKinney
Before this thread drops off the page...
There was an excellent turnout of TNFers at the meeting:
Mark Ballard
David Beard
Barry Boor
Roger Clark
Alan Cox
criceto
Paul Parker
Ted Walker
Mick Walsh
and possibly others I didn't see
Perhaps we should take over a corner of the bar next time

You're assuming the bar will be open after the racing

[David M. Kane]

Amazing, you never see this kind of depth in America. We get a few gems
at Monterey with Steve Earle, but nothing of this magnitude.

The helmet issue is a good one. The Historic Grand Prix group asks that
we were a simple white helmet or one painted in period. Since my car was driven by Hans Stuck, it is painted exactly in the same scheme and color.
Most of the others have done the same. Charlie Warner's helmet is exactly
like Jan Lammers.

Otherwise, it does look silly; but I once met a guy who fell off a bike
when he pull off the road onto the gravel path, the simple awkward fall
was severe enough that he required serious head and eye surgery to restore
the vision in one eye. To fall just four feet from a sitting position and to do that kind of damage is spooky.

[rdrcr]

Great Photos from what appears to be a great time had by all...

David Beard, What sort of camera do you use? The resolution and depth of field are very nice.


"why restoration shops remain in business" A shame though.

Re: the period helmet issue. I for one agree that the appearance of period helmets, especially painted in the original colors of the drivers who raced the cars, lends a great deal to the overall picture. However, knowing what we know about impacts, being with a barrier or the errant stone, leaves me in a quandary over the subject. Ultimately, it comes down to driver preference. While I'd rather see a period piece in a historic racing car, I respect the driver's decision to protect him/herself with the latest equipment.

[David Beard]

Originally posted by rdrcr
Great Photos from what appears to be a great time had by all...

David Beard, What sort of camera do you use?

This little gadget....it's almost credit card size.
Click Dimage X

[David Beard]

Just a few more....

[Doug Nye]

I'm told that the unfortunate joint Clerk of the Course who was driving the originally quadricycle 'Invicta' has damaged vertebrae but - thankfully - the prognosis for him is good.

Re Mossy's original-style 'Herbert Johnson' helmet, after much sometimes heated 'negotiation' he now simply signs a disclaimer saying that he is happy and comfortable wearing that type of crash helmet despite being fully aware of modern developments in this area and he absolves the event organisers, promoters and sanctioning body of any liability should he sustain injuries due to this personal preference. He's happy, the insurers are happy, the people running and sanctioning the events generally seem happy...and the spectators are happy to recognise this unmistakable figure.

All it takes is some common sense - and either reckless devil-may-care...or balls.

I'm pretty sure I know which - in this case.

DCN

[oldtimer]

I do not recognise the very smart black car in picture #3 of Mark's selection (thanks muchly for those), but I do recognise a proper Invicta in the background. I was puzzled by Doug's reference to the Invicta 2003 which crashed badly, wondering if there was some sort of typo, because I am not uptodate with some of the sleeker modern resurrections of old names.

I was relieved to see from Peter Morley's picture that the bent car was indeed a modern rendering of an old name.

I am tempted to start a poll of TNFers as to which model of Invicta they would prefer to drive...

[oldtimer]

Originally posted by Doug Nye


All it takes is some common sense - and either reckless devil-may-care...or balls.

DCN

And supreme confidence in his ability to keep all in his control, which was so-o-o much in evidence in his racing days and which still makes his accident a mystery to me.

[Mark Ballard]

Originally posted by oldtimer
I do not recognise the very smart black car in picture #3 of Mark's selection

It's a single seater Alta chassis 69IS

[Frank S]

David Beard:

This little gadget....it's almost credit card size.

Minolta have made a tiny marvel, haven't they?

The Xt, due out this month, is even thinner, and will record motion video to the limit of your memory card.

Amazing.


Frank S