48 replies to this topic

[jdanton]

Happened to see this on FOX News last night (let the bashing begin). Anyway it seems pretty factual that NASCAR donated $100,000 to Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/Push coalition.

http://www.truckersp...com/4-18-03.htm

This article details the facts of the matter a little bit further. I think it probably has to do with trying to buy off Jackson, so he doesn't complain about NASCARs lack of diversity.

The Daytona mafia strikes again...

[Lee Roy]

Originally posted by jdanton
so he doesn't complain about NASCARs lack of diversity.

That's funny? I was at Martinsville last weekend and there was a black driver in the Saturday race.

[biercemountain]

NASCAR's gotten themselves into a lose/lose situation by backing Jesse Jackson.

On the one hand, it cost them a decent amount of money with no positive marketing value. On top of that, the "silence" that it bought them is an illusion.

Think about it, all Jackson has to do is start criticizing Nascar for lacking "diversity" and being "intolerant" and the Nascar guys are toast. If they bring up the donations, Jackson will simply tell the truth and accuse Nascar of trying to buy his silence. He'll then remind people he "can't be bought" and Nascar will have a public relations nightmare of epic proportions on their hands.

What a perfect scam!

[SpeakerGuru]

In fact, NASCAR is the largest "contributor" to the Rainbow/PUSH coalition of any organized sporting organization in the country. To top it off, they refuse to comment on the reasons why, when asked. Does this raise any suspicions? Does for me. Why do they feel the need to be secretive about this? Sounds like the Daytona Mafia paying hush money to the racial Mafia to me. Should we then infer that NASCAR has conciously undertaken efforts to be prejudicial or racially biased in it's employment practices? In it's awarding of sponsorship or other contracts? If so they will now have to answer these questions anyway, it seems. If not, they are just the latest in a long line of organizations to succumb to the shakedown of the race mafia. Wonder how the average NASCAR fan feels about subsidizing the Rainbow/PUSH coalition & it's activities?

[random]

It's not surprising Nascar is giving money to Jesse, Nascar "does" have serious diversity issues. Hell, they don't even have any Canadians, let alone anyone with brown skin. It's mostly the same in their lower series, all the way down to the short tracks all over the south.

Nascar should probably do more to sponsor diversity in the lower ranks of circle track racing. It would be a long term process to get competitive runners to the top Winston Cup level, but a worthy goal.

[JPMCrew]

So this article quotes the FoxNews channel to support their claims? That's a first.

The writer of the article implies that NASCAR supporting Jackson is "bad" because Jackson is anti-war...

[random]

Originally posted by JPMCrew
So this article quotes the FoxNews channel to support their claims? That's a first.

The writer of the article implies that NASCAR supporting Jackson is "bad" because Jackson is anti-war...

Exactly, because "all" Nascar fans are for the war.

[GL*]

FoxNews has got to be the biggest sh*t disturber in the western hemisphere:-) Their real agenda is to stir up racial undertones on both sides of the equation of this issue as opposed to resolving anything. I happen to think Jackson, FoxNews, and NASCAR are all tools when it comes to this issue.

NASCAR has problems but as an organization, it's pretty hard to change the perception of its fanbase. If I'm not mistaken, there was a Japanese NASCAR driver who was ridiculed not too long ago. The official line was that he was a pay driver, but there were some racial undertones in the way the fans exhibited this frustration. I'd hate to see what the fans would do to an African American driver who made it into NASCAR through some diversity program. In fact, I'd hate to see what FoxNews would say if this ever happened. Bill O'Reilly's inflated ego would explode or something.

As far as Jackson is concerned, I think his motives are questionable though I can respect some of his endeavours. I personally think he's more of an idol than a leader in that he's all for accepting the perks that come with his stature, but he's unwilling to truly lead. The truth of the matter is that there exists an Old Boys network in just about every industry. In fact, it goes beyond colour - their are gender, financial and other social class discrepencies in the network. Infiltrating the Old Boys network is always difficult, but personally, resorting to the sort of tactics that Jackson does, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It would sort of be like Ghandi resorting to violence. There's got to be a higher road someone can take.

I think this $100k donation is the best road to take right now. It does look bad, but people will eventually forget. In time, NASCAR will become more diverse in terms of race and perhaps nationality. But this takes time. It wasn't long ago that the NHL had no black, Russian or European players either. Now it's common place and letting things play themselves out has resulted in a smooth transition without any truly nasty debates. I think that inertia has NASCAR headed in a similar direction and I wouldn't be surprised if the field is fairly diverse 10 years from now.

I'm not sure if I'm the only person that sees the irony in Jackson trying to demolish the Old Boys network as that is how he retains his position.

[rugger]

Originally posted by JPMCrew
So this article quotes the FoxNews channel to support their claims? That's a first.

The writer of the article implies that NASCAR supporting Jackson is "bad" because Jackson is anti-war...

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WAR!! The writer quotes from the show "The Factor", which I have to assume is the show "The O'Reilly Factor". Bill O'Reilly, the host of this show, has long been exposing the good Revrund ;) for his shakedown tactics and the scandals among his various organizations. These deals that have been going down between the Master of Shakedown and Daytona have been going on for a number years. The writer does report that NASCAR is keeping it's mouth shut about it (do you blame them; if I made the mistake in dealing with Jackson I would, too), just like all the other corporations that have done so as well (I'm sure O'Reilly has a list somewhere). It is only then that the writer does any implying (that NASCAR is being hypocritical by backing our troops). That's all fine and dandy, but methinks the writer of the article has some other agenda in mind. She's tweaking NASCAR's nose for some reason. I mean just look at the name of the site; of all the obscene and dirty words that I have ever heard, it contains the ugliest of them all; politics. And the other word sets off alarms as well (no, I'm not implying that all truckers are NASCAR fans, but the writer might assume that, and try to play to her audience)

[rugger]

Originally posted by GL*
FoxNews has got to be the biggest sh*t disturber in the western hemisphere:-)

Sometimes sh*t has to be disturbed, or are you willing to just let it sit there. I know that's not what you meant, but you're wrong about FoxNews. They actually do give you viewpoints on both sides of the coin and do have a varying amount of opinions amongst their personnel. Whereas most of the others only give you one view (I can't tell you who they are because I can't tell them apart : )

[SpeakerGuru]

Originally posted by JPMCrew

The writer of the article implies that NASCAR supporting Jackson is "bad" because Jackson is anti-war...

No, supporting Jackson is bad because he is a lowlife, ******* blackmail artist who is interested SOLEY in himself & his personal financial gain. He makes profit on the backs of the black populace who think he has their interests at heart. What a joke. Ask Texaco, Toyota, Coca-Cola, etc., about Jackson's motives. Threats are implied until "contributions" are made to Jackson's "organization". Then he goes away to find another victim. He is a shakedown artist, pure & simple.

[random]

Originally posted by rugger
Sometimes sh*t has to be disturbed, or are you willing to just let it sit there. I know that's not what you meant, but you're wrong about FoxNews. They actually do give you viewpoints on both sides of the coin and do have a varying amount of opinions amongst their personnel. Whereas most of the others only give you one view (I can't tell you who they are because I can't tell them apart : )

Fox wouldn't even show the anti-war protesters. Fox news they said "their viewers wouldn't appriciate it". That may be true, but it's hardly a credible action from any news service, especially one that calls itself "fair and balanced".

I prefer my news undigested, without a slant. So Fox is "right" out. I watch many different news channels, but usually switch between BBC24, CNN and a few web news sites. Together they provide a much more accurate world view than Fox.

[Lee Roy]

Originally posted by GL*
NASCAR has problems but as an organization, it's pretty hard to change the perception of its fanbase. If I'm not mistaken, there was a Japanese NASCAR driver who was ridiculed not too long ago. The official line was that he was a pay driver, but there were some racial undertones in the way the fans exhibited this frustration. I'd hate to see what the fans would do to an African American driver who made it into NASCAR through some diversity program. In fact, I'd hate to see what FoxNews would say if this ever happened. Bill O'Reilly's inflated ego would explode or something.

Hideo Fukuyama {a former Nippon GT champion, I think} has been well received in NASCAR. The NBC team featured him in some good natured spots last year where he ridiculed Wally Dallenbach. He has plans to continue in NASCAR again this year.

NASCAR had a black driver and team owner for years named Wendell Scott from Danville, Virginia. Saw him race myself. He won a Winston Cup {then known as Grand National} race in Jacksonville, Florida in either 1961 or 1963.

In the Craftsman Truck series (NASCAR's third series), the Dodge people have a diversity program for drivers of African Heritage. Currently Bill Lester, a former sports car driver, is in his second year in this truck. I saw him race at Martinsville, Virginia last weekend. Even in the state that had the capital of the Confederacy, I didn't hear one peep out of anyone about it.

Your prejudice is only outdone by your lack of knowledge.

[SpeakerGuru]

Originally posted by random


I prefer my news undigested, without a slant. So ... I watch many different news channels, but usually ... CNN ... Together they provide a much more accurate world view than Fox.

Yea, the same CNN which just admitted to reading Saddam propaganda over the years in order to keep their reporters in Baghdad.

Muuuuuuch more accurate, ha ha ha ha

[random]

Originally posted by SpeakerGuru
Yea, the same CNN which just admitted to reading Saddam propaganda over the years in order to keep their reporters in Baghdad.

I don't want to get entirely off topic here, but that post of yours is entirely incorrect. CNN simply didn't talk about some of their locally hired Iraqi cameramen being tortured. For if they were to do so, it was generally assumed the cameramen and their families would have been killed.

Even the journalisim ethics advisor at Fox News said CNN did the right thing by not reporting on it.

No, I don't trust everything CNN says, that's why I use a variety of sources. But if you only watch Fox, your world view is very slim indeed.

[JPMCrew]

Originally posted by SpeakerGuru


No, supporting Jackson is bad because he is a lowlife, ******* blackmail artist who is interested SOLEY in himself & his personal financial gain. He makes profit on the backs of the black populace who think he has their interests at heart. What a joke. Ask Texaco, Toyota, Coca-Cola, etc., about Jackson's motives. Threats are implied until "contributions" are made to Jackson's "organization". Then he goes away to find another victim. He is a shakedown artist, pure & simple.

Well, Jackson might be all that (I don't know), but the writer implies NASCAR should not support him because he is anti-war, not because he is any of the things you mention above.

Race teams have demonstrated their support for the troops in many wonderful ways, each showing patriotism and respect for their country, as true Americans should, yet, many people feel that NASCAR's support for the troops and the loyalties to their nation is terribly undercut by the more than ample support for Jackson. Whether NASCAR agrees with Jacksons point of view or not is irrelevant to many NASCAR fans at this point because many feel that by supporting these organizations financially, they aren't speaking out against them when it counts.

[vapaokie]

Originally posted by random
I watch many different news channels, but usually switch between BBC24, CNN and a few web news sites. Together they provide a much more accurate world view than Fox.

Would this be the same imparial CNN that sat on news of Saddam's atrocities in order to keep a news desk in Baghdad. Including letting Saddam's family members be lured back by Qusay to be killed, after Qusay himself had told CNN that he was going to do it. They did let King Hussein of Jordan know there was a plot on his life, but for the little people tough sh*t. The same CNN that broadcast Arnett's baseless accusation that US forces used Sarin gas on their own troops is Vietnam and had to retract it? "Our presence/politics is more important that reporting facts we know." Impartial/Accurate world view my *ss.

Personally I look at all the major news websites to find out whats's going on, but to call any of them (CNN and the big three networks in particular) impartial is a sad joke.

[SpeakerGuru]

Originally posted by JPMCrew



Well, Jackson might be all that (I don't know), but the writer implies NASCAR should not support him because he is anti-war, not because he is any of the things you mention above.

Of course that's the easy way to get people to take your side on things, taking into account the state of the nation currently. Most everybody (especially the NASCAR crowd) want to be seen as "for the troops" right now, so labeling Jackson as anti-war, or anti-troop is the easy way to make him a villain. If that works for them, so be it. I couldn't care less about his position on the war - everyone has a right to be wrong. I know what his true colors are - I stick with what I posted of him earlier.

And random, before you proclaim that I am "entirely incorrect", you may wish to arm yourself with better facts. A reporter who worked for CNN in the early 90's has detailed how he was handed "reading points" by the Iraqi govt. (possibly even Baghdad Bob) and told to read them, ON THE AIR, by CNN management. That's far more than simply not mentioning some incidents of torture.

[Kaiser]

Originally posted by SpeakerGuru


No, supporting Jackson is bad because he is a lowlife, ******* blackmail artist who is interested SOLEY in himself & his personal financial gain.

Yep, Jackson is a shakedown artist, a good one.

[Fabio]

Nascar and its fans have always been labeled as racists. I don't know if it's true. I don' t live in america. But considering that there's no black driver in F1,F3000 or any major F3 series around the world, I don't think anyone can say Nascar is racist just because there's no black nascar driver.

As for the japanese/asian drivers, I don't know what happens in other countries, but in Brazil, they're often ridiculed by the fans and media.

Nascar fans probably booed Fittipaldi and Fukuyama, but here at the Rio200, the brazilian crowd booed the US national anthem and all american drivers. Are brazilians racist too?

[Lee Roy]

Originally posted by Fabio
Nascar fans probably booed Fittipaldi and Fukuyama,

No, they pretty much just ignored them like the rest of the crowd at the back of the pack.

[Fabio]

Frankly,Lee Roy, I don't understand why people make all this fuss about Nascar being racist. Maybe it's because I come from a country where there's no such thing as being politically correct. We quite often use racial slurs(insulting blacks,whites,asians) during sporting events and everybody is ok with that. Most people I know, whatch f1/nascar/Cart/Tennis or any other sporting event and doesn't have any second thoughts about why there's no black or asian driver/player on the track/court.

[GL*]

Originally posted by Lee Roy


Hideo Fukuyama {a former Nippon GT champion, I think} has been well received in NASCAR. The NBC team featured him in some good natured spots last year where he ridiculed Wally Dallenbach. He has plans to continue in NASCAR again this year.

NASCAR had a black driver and team owner for years named Wendell Scott from Danville, Virginia. Saw him race myself. He won a Winston Cup {then known as Grand National} race in Jacksonville, Florida in either 1961 or 1963.

In the Craftsman Truck series (NASCAR's third series), the Dodge people have a diversity program for drivers of African Heritage. Currently Bill Lester, a former sports car driver, is in his second year in this truck. I saw him race at Martinsville, Virginia last weekend. Even in the state that had the capital of the Confederacy, I didn't hear one peep out of anyone about it.

Your prejudice is only outdone by your lack of knowledge.

I think you've read far too much into what I posted. You don't have to get so defensive, as all I'm trying to point out is that there's subtle racism exhibited by some NASCAR fans. I won't even kid myself and say a majority. And I won't forget to say that this holds true for quite a number of sports and society as a whole. All I'm saying is that NASCAR can't force these fans to change overnight. When Fukuyama came into NASCAR, there was a huge deal made about him - it was a combination of things because of his "qualifying", his inexperience, and yes the fact he was Japanese. I just found it a bit interesting, that the rules that let Fukuyama qualify weren't criticized much until they allowed him to filter through. In fact, I heard many refer to him as a "gimmick". Fact of the matter is, a similarly inexperienced homegrown racer would not have been scrutinized to the same extent. NASCAR fans are tolerant of diversity, but there's still that good old boy's club. That's all I trying to say, and this club definitely exists in F1 too. So I don't want to make it seem like I'm unfairly pointing out NASCAR, except that's what this thread is about.

[GL*]

Originally posted by rugger


Sometimes sh*t has to be disturbed, or are you willing to just let it sit there. I know that's not what you meant, but you're wrong about FoxNews. They actually do give you viewpoints on both sides of the coin and do have a varying amount of opinions amongst their personnel. Whereas most of the others only give you one view (I can't tell you who they are because I can't tell them apart : )

Fox's idea of showing different viewpoints is allocating the majority of a show to their own opinion, then allocating a carefully edited minority of the show to the alternative viewpoint. That is followed up by a sarcastic joke by the anchor. In the case of Bill O'Reilly, he ambushes the guest with the alternative viewpoint by asking them a question that doesn't have a simple one line response, and failing to give that person an opportunity to give more than a simple response which makes them look stupid.

Give me PBS, BBC or the CBC any day for intellectual discussion, but Fox News is pure entertainment! I'll admit Fox is the only channel that is willing to disturb sh*t but they forget the second part of the responsibility - you make a mess, you clean it up. They create these debates and fail to allow them to be resolved. It boils down do these debates being glorified ranting sessions.

[JPMCrew]

Originally posted by SpeakerGuru


Of course that's the easy way to get people to take your side on things, taking into account the state of the nation currently. Most everybody (especially the NASCAR crowd) want to be seen as "for the troops" right now, so labeling Jackson as anti-war, or anti-troop is the easy way to make him a villain. If that works for them, so be it. I couldn't care less about his position on the war - everyone has a right to be wrong. I know what his true colors are - I stick with what I posted of him earlier.

Just wondering, how can you be so sure about Jackson? Do you have first hand evidence? Or did you watch that on FoxNews too?

[goalposthead]

Originally posted by GL*
FoxNews has got to be the biggest sh*t disturber in the western hemisphere

I think "sh*it distributor" would be more accurate.


FOXNews is America's Al Jazzera.




(Except Al Jazzera is probably more "fair and balanced".)

[Psychoman]

If anyone's interested, I put up a Paddock Club thread for the Fox News debate

[DamattaSpeed]

Originally posted by goalposthead

I think "sh*it distributor" would be more accurate.


FOXNews is America's Al Jazzera.




(Except Al Jazzera is probably more "fair and balanced".)

I swear conservatives in this country have mastered the art of the big lie (mostly to themselves)better than even Hitler. Not enough to control political talk radio and have an entire network feeding their spin, still they must persist with the biased media spin ad nauseum.

[Chui]

As a proud Black American I have only two comments: The first is that Jesse Jackson is a fraud and only after Mr. Rockefeller bailed his arse out of jail for embezzlement [I think] was he "on the national scene". But then, after appearing in the media a full day later with a bloody shirt claiming to have been present when MLK, Jr [another tool whether he was aware or not I do not know...] was killed may have set himself up to be recognized as a tool to be manipulated.

And Willy T. Ribbs was a TRUE race driver who was denied an opportunity to display his considerable skills in F1 and he struggles to get sponsorship today.

[SpeakerGuru]

Hey JPMCrew,

If you don't beleive me about Jesse, does Chui have you seeing the light yet?

[JPMCrew]

Originally posted by SpeakerGuru
Hey JPMCrew,

If you don't beleive me about Jesse, does Chui have you seeing the light yet?

I don't know enough to be sure whether you are right or not about him. All I can say is that my experience makes me very sceptical about the news media in the US. So if you have based your opinion of him by what someone like Bill O'Reilly has said about him in the past, well... let me take your opinion with a grain of salt too.

[Justafan]

If Mr. Jackson had a last name that ended in a vowel, he'd be in the Greybar Hotel.
He and his whole crew are extortionists, no more no less. NASCAR, flush with cash, did what any business that doesn't want to be bothered with the "mob" would do, they paid the money. $100K was probably to low, Hi-Jackson may be losing his touch. One wonders if La Raza will be seeking the same sort of "donation" from the NBA?

Speaking of extortion, If Fox News is "Al Jazzera," then what may I ask is CNN?

http://www.washtimes...14-21266686.htm

Fox rocks. It must really suck to be one of those "Glass half-empty" socialists, huh?

[Justafan]

I hesitated bringing this back up, I mean with the all the important news that Flabbio is insulting JV and JPM is not speaking to Michael's younger brother and the IRL is going to actually go Road Racing in a year or so, after they redesign the cars to be more like Toyota Atlantics, but...

From USA Today, Yesterday...if you wish to read the whole thing....

Revarun Jackson Takes a Holiday

NASCAR ends donations to Jackson's Rainbow/PUSH

In response to pressure from a conservative legal watchdog group and racing fans, NASCAR is cutting off its funding of Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/PUSH Coalition.

NASCAR has paid a total of $250,000 to an affiliate organization of the black advocacy group in recent years. But a person familiar with NASCAR's internal decisions confirmed that the racing organization has not paid Jackson's group any money in 2003 and doesn't plan to. NASCAR is seeking more subtle ways to back Rainbow/PUSH without appearing as though they directly support the politically volatile Jackson.

Four months of media attention and fan backlash have prodded NASCAR into cutting ties with Jackson. At a Rainbow/PUSH conference in June, which was attended by NASCAR chief operating officer George Pyne, one of the organization's board members called NASCAR "the last bastion of white supremacy" in sports.

Through a spokesman, NASCAR declined comment on the decision to stop funding Jackson's group. In his April statement, Helton noted that NASCAR's diversity initiatives include a minority internship program, secondary education scholarships and support for the Urban Youth Racing School in Philadelphia.

No word on PETA and the "Pork, the Other White Meat" entry.

[Scudetto]

Originally posted by biercemountain
If they bring up the donations, Jackson will simply tell the truth and accuse Nascar of trying to buy his silence. He'll then remind people he "can't be bought" and Nascar will have a public relations nightmare of epic proportions on their hands.

What a perfect scam!

Not if Jackson kept the money.

[Todd]

Originally posted by jdanton

The Daytona mafia strikes again...

Was their first strike stealing your brain? Jessie Jackson exorts money, and that makes his victims a 'mafia.'

[Pete Stanley]

MLK's family has always said that Jesse Jackson reached down and intentionally smeared his shirt with King's blood. He showed up on TV the next morning with the same shirt on.

As I understand it, Jesse Jackson's organizations have perfected the art of extortion. They loudly accuse a company of racism. The said company then makes a large financial donation to one of Jackson's non-profit organizations - and it must be to one of Mr. Jackson's organizations. Then Jackson gives that company public praise for doing the right thing.

As far as Fox news goes, I would not say "Fair and balanced" but I would say "fair." Fox's editorial slant is certainly to the right. The unwatchable (for me) Bill O'Reilly is not a news show - it's opinion. But Fox makes sure to keep editorial comment out of it's straight news reports. Almost every single other TV news outfit can't seem to separate a news story to reactions from other people. Example (although I know there's no headlines in TV News): Dutchy of Gran Fenwick Invades Monaco - Fox

Dutchy of Gran Fenwick Invades Monaco; Locals "Concerned"

Willy T. Ribbs was a tremendous talent. But he didn't help himself by coming to Indy talking like he owned the place and then getting the hell scared out of him by the turbulence.

I don't think Ribbs was really the same after his part in the death of corner worker Jean-Patrick Hein at Vancouver.

I think part of the reason we don't see more blacks in racing, especially in the USA, is economic. Racing costs alot of money. And some of it is cultural. The black community in America isn't really into auto racing that much. There isn't much inclination to be involved, either. I've been told several times by black acquaintences that white people are crazy for doing that kind of thing.

[Dudley]

(Except Al Jazzera is probably more "fair and balanced".)

Editorically they're close to even on either side.

But crucially Al Jazzera is the single news source I know of that would give screen time to both sides. They showed Blair and Bush speeches in full, and they showed Saddam speeches in full.

And that's the way it should be.

[random]

Originally posted by Pete Stanley
But Fox makes sure to keep editorial comment out of it's straight news reports. Almost every single other TV news outfit can't seem to separate a news story to reactions from other people.

Fox has proven you wrong many times. I'm thinking back to a Fox news anchor reporting on the grenade attack by an American army grunt against his company commander during the early parts of the war. She rolled her eyes, and said "Gee I wonder if he's an Arab?". This wasn't an editorial or interview portion of a segment, she was reading the news.

If Fox wanted to call themselves "Right news for Right times" or something, I'd have a lot less problem with them. But this "Fair and Balanced" BS is as unprofessional as some of their commentators and "journalists" (Geraldo comes to mind).

As for Nascar refusing to pay Jesse any more blood money, how about if they instead pledged that money to getting some American minorities into their series. Top to bottom, from the component sub-contractors to floor sweepers and team owners, Nascar employs many thousands of people, almost all of them white guys. Probably making Nascar the whitest sporting series on the planet.

[Justafan]

Originally posted by random

(Geraldo comes to mind).

As for Nascar refusing to pay Jesse any more blood money, how about if they instead pledged that money to getting some American minorities into their series. Top to bottom, from the component sub-contractors to floor sweepers and team owners, Nascar employs many thousands of people, almost all of them white guys. Probably making Nascar the whitest sporting series on the planet.

Geraldo is a Liberal. So are many of the people who regularly appear on Fox News programming, NPR is particularly well represented. The saddest part about the whole CNN/Fox mess is that CNN really has the ability to cover news much better than Fox. They are just so blinded by their liberal "vision" that they just can't play it straight and the viewing public is tired of them...for now.

What does the color of a man's skin have to do with his participation in Motor Sport? F1 is pretty White, too, you know. As is the IRL and CART. I don't see Mr. Hy-Jackson going after them. What would you propose, Quotas? Credit for Laps not raced? There is a Black fellow, Bill Lester, driving in the NASCAR "Truck" Series, and he'll even get his own Cheerio's box this year...

Bill Lester's Cheerio's Box

And by the by, Turner Interactive, you know the CNN guy, owns NASCAR.com.

He's everywhere, He's everywhere!

Since you mention Sweepers....

Now These People Are White

[Chui]

I find it kinda insulting that they are "concerned" about the lack of Blacks participating in their sport. Willy T. Ribbs could have been there already if they were serious. The same for F1.

It's all about Marketing Dollars or Euros. Plain and simple. I watch motorsport to spite, inspite and despite the pseudo, wannabe elite who command such a 'high and mighty' vantage point.

My stance is that if a Black racer is talented enough to drive and wishes for a test then it should be discussed. But never forget this: if he cannot get sponsorship then he cannot drive. Can a Black face sell products as well as a White one? To many the answer is a resounding no. Yes, there is Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods and, yes, Kobe Bryant. But they are few and far between. I am also well aware of the "ghetto image" of many popular Black athletes and entertainers so for many they trade "mainstream acceptance and marketablity" for pop culture popularity (which has it's own fiduciary rewards). But I digress. I don't see a Black driver in the upper eschelons of the sport due to "lack of marketability" for some time to come. And since there are no visible Blacks in road racing at all it's difficult to get a kid to pay much attention - much less convince his dad to spend countless hours and $$$ to get him moving along that road. I speak from experience here.

At any rate I conclude:

There is a convoluted relationship between 'lack of presence and low cultural awareness' which I posit is the result of corporations determining that the White public will not respond positively to a Black male marketing (and representing) their goods.

I don't necessarily think that many team principles are racist, per se, but they are realists. If he/she cannot bring the coin then they are destined to play in the stands, pits or as corner workers. It's economics. Ugly, but "true".

:

[HSJ]

Originally posted by Pete Stanley
As I understand it, Jesse Jackson's organizations have perfected the art of extortion. They loudly accuse a company of racism. The said company then makes a large financial donation to one of Jackson's non-profit organizations - and it must be to one of Mr. Jackson's organizations. Then Jackson gives that company public praise for doing the right thing.

Don't you just love political correctness? It is what makes this sort of crap possible.

[random]

Originally posted by HSJ
Don't you just love political correctness? It is what makes this sort of crap possible.

There you're mistaken. It has nothing to do with politically correctness, it's about racism.

I know people that have worked in Nascar. I've worked in places that wouldn't (in hindsight) have hired a dark skinned person, even if they had been more qualified than other applicants. Nascar reminds me of those places, practicing a sort of de facto racism. Fact is, there's hardly a dark skinned person in the Nascar entire organization, any of the teams or any of their suppliers. Sure, a lot of it may be the good-ole-boy network, but there's still a fair bit of outright racism there.

I'm no supporter of Jesse Jackson and his tactics, but he wouldn't be able to play these games with them if Nascar didn't have a very serious diversity problem. Nascar is far too large of a public oriented organization to ignore these serious issues. Most companies in the Fortune-100 set up programs years ago to address this sort of thing, it's time Nascar got with the program and acted like the responsible corporate citizen they claim to be.

[Justafan]

Originally posted by random
There you're mistaken. It has nothing to do with politically correctness, it's about racism.

I know people that have worked in Nascar. Sure, a lot of it may be the good-ole-boy network, but there's still a fair bit of outright racism there.

Most companies in the Fortune-100 set up programs years ago to address this sort of thing, it's time Nascar got with the program and acted like the responsible corporate citizen they claim to be.

Re: Paragraph 2.

Might I suggest

From the USA Today Article referenced above...

"Four months of media attention and fan backlash have prodded NASCAR into cutting ties with Jackson. At a Rainbow/PUSH conference in June, which was attended by NASCAR chief operating officer George Pyne, one of the organization's board members called NASCAR "the last bastion of white supremacy" in sports.

Through a spokesman, NASCAR declined comment on the decision to stop funding Jackson's group. In his April statement, Helton noted that NASCAR's diversity initiatives include a minority internship program, secondary education scholarships and support for the Urban Youth Racing School in Philadelphia."

If I'm paying "Hush Money" and there ain't no "Hush," PLUS you insult me...

Speaking as a "dark skinned person," I think I might just apply to one of those "Help Wanted" ads in the back of AutoSport, get rejected, sue the BeJesus out of McLaren and settle for an F1 test drive and a guarnteed spot on the grid for my son...You know kinda like what the Rev-a-run-Jack-Son did with a Beer Company that shall remain nameless...

[random]

Originally posted by Justafan
Speaking as a "dark skinned person," I think I might just apply to one of those "Help Wanted" ads in the back of AutoSport, get rejected, sue the BeJesus out of McLaren and settle for an F1 test drive and a guarnteed spot on the grid for my son...You know kinda like what the Rev-a-run-Jack-Son did with a Beer Company that shall remain nameless...

Having worked at a small, privately owned company that I strongly suspect refused employment to people based on race (not my decision, in fact I stopped working there shortly thereafter), I can tell you that unless an insider, a current employee were turn them in, the chances of proving you were rejected because of race are negligible. A number of applicants with similar skills usually comes down to how much the boss liked you in the interview anyway.

Of course large business can't get away with this sort of thing, statistics can prove the case against them. But most people in America don't work for big corporations, far more Americans work for small companies. And those small ones have a low enough employee base to usually get away with this sort of thing. Especially if they only discriminate on the higher level jobs. Maybe they'll even have 15% minority employment, but they'll all be janitorial. Nascar in fact is mostly made up of hundreds of small companies (the teams, suppliers, vendors etc...) so unless analyzed as a larger entity, something I could never see the courts allowing, they'll be within the law.

I'm aware that Nascar has started some minority initiatives, but I've yet to see them have any actual effect in the series. Fortune 100 companies where I've worked have had aggressive minority employment programs with quite obvious effect.

[Justafan]

Originally posted by random

Having worked at a small, privately owned company that I strongly suspect refused employment to people based on race (not my decision, in fact I stopped working there shortly thereafter), I can tell you that unless an insider, a current employee were turn them in, the chances of proving you were rejected because of race are negligible. A number of applicants with similar skills usually comes down to how much the boss liked you in the interview anyway.

I'm aware that Nascar has started some minority initiatives, but I've yet to see them have any actual effect in the series. Fortune 100 companies where I've worked have had aggressive minority employment programs with quite obvious effect.

Having been the "insider," on one of these cases (which, unless you wish to spend the rest of your life sitting home posting things on the Internet, is NOT a good move--You were right to run), I can assure you that the Affirmative Action Industry is alive and well in the US and just waiting for the next big Lawsuit and NASCAR would do just fine. Personally, I would try to prove discrimination based on Sex, but that's another matter. But what would you get? And what would it prove?

Your dog won't hunt for the following reason. Black folks spend money. And if you think for ONE MOMENT the NASCAR would look for a reason NOT to get people to spend money on them or their sponsors, then you must be a Democrat (Proudly Pimpin' off Po' Folk). Right now, the HOTTEST property in show biz would be a Gentleman of Color who was as fast as Jeff Gordon. That man could (or woman) could write their own ticket in Motor Sports, most particularly NASCAR.

His endorsement contracts would make Mr. Wood's look minor league.

[random]

Originally posted by Justafan
Your dog won't hunt for the following reason. Black folks spend money. And if you think for ONE MOMENT the NASCAR would look for a reason NOT to get people to spend money on them or their sponsors, then you must be a Democrat (Proudly Pimpin' off Po' Folk). Right now, the HOTTEST property in show biz would be a Gentleman of Color who was as fast as Jeff Gordon. That man could (or woman) could write their own ticket in Motor Sports, most particularly NASCAR.

His endorsement contracts would make Mr. Wood's look minor league.

Where your logic fails is that you're focusing on the drivers seat. Drivers make up a miniscule percentage of those employed by the sport. And most of the companies involved only hire a few drivers, many hire none. And even those that do have drivers on the payroll are more interested in lot of other factors, money and speed come to mind.

Sure, having a minority in the drivers seat would be a great thing for Nascar, but that's a very "big picture" goal. Something none of the individual teams can be reasonably asked to carry the weight of. It's up to Nascar to see that minorities get a chance behind the wheel, because currently there is little incentive for any of the individual teams to take that "big picture" approach.

And unlike stick and ball sports, learning to drive stock cars can't be done in the playground or any easily accessible sports facility. Nascar drivers mostly come from short tracks across America. And even short track racing can eat up lots of money. Learning to play most stick and ball sports has a very low monetary threshold for entry. But racing is all about how much money you have. And most of the money in America is not with the minorities. So it's at that grass roots level that Nascar will have to invest if they want to accelerate the likelihood of a top level minority driver.

But personally, I think a far more worthy goal is to see more diversity in the other 99% of the sport. Because that's where almost all of the jobs are.

[Justafan]

It's the issue that won't die...

Coming soon to YOUR favorite Auto Racing Series...

NASCAR Struggles to break Color Barriers

From the Article (you've been warned)

"'In Indianapolis, who's the hottest rapper to y'all?" asked NASCAR intern Justin Moore, a Brandeis University economics major, starting his talk to about 75 minority high school and college students being introduced to the sport."

Brandeis? Gag me with a Silver Spoon.

[aportinga]

Well at least they took them to Indy.... Just walking in that place can inspire a return over and over again. Much like Monza I would suppose......

Just too bad they could not experience the sound of a CART or F1 machine which would probably blow their minds apart

[Justafan]

It's Friday, a Grand Prix (The GP of Hungary brought to you by Armco) and CART Weekend so it MUST be time for....From Toady's Wall Steet Journal...

Pushing Back--WARNING--Requires Registration and a Subscription

Exerpt from the Article (USC Title 17 Fair Use Reviewed by Me)...DO NOT attempt to read while drinking a beverage:

Mr. Jackson's relationship with Nascar took off in 1999, when he told Nascar brass that its sport is too white. "The fact of the matter is there is frustration because of exclusion," he said. "We must now turn that pain to power. We were qualified to play baseball before 1947. We are qualified to race cars now." He promised to improve the sport's complexion, and in appreciation Nascar began a fund transfer to Rainbow/Push "nonprofits" to the reported tune of $250,000.

Not surprisingly, the Nascar faithful began wondering why any of their ticket money should find its way into Mr. Jackson's saddle bags. After all, Rainbow/Push board member Bill Shack had called auto racing "the last bastion of white supremacy" in professional sports, while Rainbow sports director Charles Farrell said Nascar could be considered "a good ole' boy's Southern cracker sport." (For Northerners it is worth noting that "cracker" is a foul word in Nascar country and not lightly dismissed.)

Then there was Mr. Jackson's opposition to the Iraq war, illuminated in a for-your-information letter from conservative activist Peter Flaherty to Nascar CEO William C. France. "According to the Richmond Times Dispatch," Mr. Flaherty wrote, "you have stated that NASCAR fans are 'the kind of people who go to war and win wars for America.'" Yet, Mr. Flaherty remarked, Mr. Jackson had told a London protest rally that "today is not about Saddam Hussein. Today is about Bush and Blair and the massacre they plan for Iraq." If the U.S. intervened, Mr. Jackson said, it would be guilty of "war crimes."

Nor were the "cracker" rank and file silent. "Imagine if the Sons of the Confederacy described the NBA as a punk-a** colored man's sport," Nascar fan and online commentator Grandstand Bob wrote. "It's roughly the equivalent of [Charles] Farrell's comments. Neither statement is fair, and both deserve equal disdain, but don't look for apologies from the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition."

In Nascar-friendly Nashville, Tenn., fans threw a collective rod. "We're all wondering what would happen if David Duke tried to extort money from the NBA and NFL because of the relatively low level of white participation," says local radio talk-show host Phil Valentine, who recalled an earlier interview with Mr. Jackson. "I told him that the appearance of graffiti is an early sign of neighborhood decay. Jesse responded by saying that graffiti is the 'hieroglyphics of poverty.' For him, everything is about oppression."

OK, this finishes my two post this week, I have clothes to Iron and Pre-Qualifying to watch on the 'ol Dish PVR...