21 replies to this topic

[holiday]

Autosport race report on the Grand Prix at Brazil in 1989

Traffic is also a problem out at the Autodromo Nelson Piquet, an uninspiring sort of place built on old swamp land. Getting into the circuit at Grand Prix time is bad, getting round it seems to be equally difficult, particularly if Rene Arnoux is on the horizon. Time and again the fast men, hanging out their lives on qualifying rubber, came across Rene's wobbling blue Ligier. It was extraordinary. Normally a walk down the pitlane will reveal a few odd grumbles, but after both qualifying sessions, the name Arnoux was being spat out at almost every pit. It was either a massive conspiracy against Rene, or he really did pull more hold ups then the average New York Liquor store suffers in a year.

I also remember Arnoux holding up Alain Prost later that year at Monaco for half an eternity enjoying his personal vendetta. At the end of the season everybody in the pit-lane was done with him. Why did he being a former premium racer did make such an arse out of himself then?

Opinions? New insights?

[Mac Lark]

SURELY HE WASN'T THICK

[Vicuna]

Thick? THICK!!

He was quick and he was French when it was bloody convenient to be French.

Just being nearly French got J.Ickx a top drive in 1979 - a bit after his best.......

[mikedeering]

Originally posted by holiday


I also remember Arnoux holding up Alain Prost later that year at Monaco for half an eternity enjoying his personal vendetta. At the end of the season everybody in the pit-lane was done with him. Why did he being a former premium racer did make such an arse out of himself then?

Opinions? New insights?

The cover of Autosport ran with the headline "Monaco: Rene Stops The Show" the following week. I think it was during that race that a certain Murray Walker suggested Arnoux was having trouble adapting to an atmospheric engine after years racing turbos. James Hunt's view on that? "Bullshit." How I laughed...

Why Arnoux behaved in such a way I don't know - perhaps having run at the front of GPs in the early 80s and spent time with top teams such as Ferrari and Renault he found it difficult to be relegated to role of backmarker - so exacted revenge through holding people up (invariably it was poor Alain Prost that suffered the most).

Then again, maybe it's a French thing - didn't Olivier Grouillard get a reputation for holding people up when at Tyrrell in 1992?

[Jeroen Brink]

Did he not give every driver a watch when he quit racing?

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Jeroen Brink
Did he not give every driver a watch when he quit racing?

He did. Nice gesture, but I can't say I ever noticed many drivers wearing them in subsequent photos (now if it'd been a Stefan Johansson watch...;))

But Rene always puzzled me. After his first couple of seasons in F1 he always looked barking. Mad staring eyes...

As Billy Connolly once said of someone particularly interested in recreational organic chemistry... "you dinnae get eyes like that reading the Beano!"...

pete

[Mohican]

Can we please have an end to all these Arnoux-bashing comments ?

The guy was very, very fast; and equally obviously somewhat lacking in his interpersonal skills. But then, so what ? People today will tolerate egomaniacs of all kinds - and most have nowhere near René's fire, ability and commitment.

As for the 1988-89 Ligiers, the less said the better. I remember that Stefan Johansson wanted to put a match to his 1988 version.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Mohican
Can we please have an end to all these Arnoux-bashing comments ?

The guy was very, very fast; and equally obviously somewhat lacking in his interpersonal skills. But then, so what ? People today will tolerate egomaniacs of all kinds - and most have nowhere near René's fire, ability and commitment.

As for the 1988-89 Ligiers, the less said the better. I remember that Stefan Johansson wanted to put a match to his 1988 version.

The '88 Ligier fascinates me - difficult to see how anyone could get a car that fundamentally wrong. I mean, fundamental decisions lile putting fuel tanks behind the engine so the handling characteristics (which weren't too hot to start with) changed radically during the race...

Little Leaf was right in wanting to destroy it!

pete

[mikedeering]

Originally posted by petefenelon



The '88 Ligier fascinates me - difficult to see how anyone could get a car that fundamentally wrong. I mean, fundamental decisions lile putting fuel tanks behind the engine so the handling characteristics (which weren't too hot to start with) changed radically during the race...

Little Leaf was right in wanting to destroy it!

pete

Didn't that car have a fuel tank in front and behind the engine?

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by mikedeering


Didn't that car have a fuel tank in front and behind the engine?

...and a complex system meant to allow the driver to control which tanks were being used at any time, IIRC.

And power-steering that didn't work properly and came off a Citroen production car, too, if I'm not totally mistaken?

pete

[Haddock]

Say what you will about Arnoux in his later years, but he generally succeeded in getting slightly more out of the 1988 Ligier than Stefan Johannson did.

Pretty much finished off both drivers though. Johannson had spent the previous three years driving for Ferrari and McLaren and after that he had a spell with the briefly promising but ultimately doomed Onyx, and then ended up at AGS. Arnoux hung around for another year, getting humiliated by Grouillard and making enemies

[baggish]

Originally posted by Mohican
Can we please have an end to all these Arnoux-bashing comments ?

I agree with that, so here is a minor Arnoux-friendly anecdote. I attended the Winfield Elf racing school in 1984, and of course Arnoux was an earlier graduate. At the time the school was run by Mike Knight (possibly still is, I don't know). Knight said Arnoux was the first pupil he'd met that could do things with cars that he couldn't.

Jon

[Rediscoveryx]

Regarding Arnoux vs Prost; I think Arnoux never really forgave Prost for taking over the role as nr.1 at Renault. I remember reading an interview with Arnoux, presumably from 1989, where he stated that he always found it satisfying to hold up Prost for a few corners more than necessary. I'm not sure if he was joking or not, but he sometimes made you wonder...

[holiday]

Not even sure if Prost had indeed number 1 status at Renault. Only after the incident at the French GP 82, when Prost made it plain that he wouldnt drive with Arnoux for another season, IMO preferential treatment was palpable.

[Vicuna]

Originally posted by Mohican
Can we please have an end to all these Arnoux-bashing comments ?

So TNF should only be about nice threads?

And what prey is an Arnoux bashing comment on this thread?

[Jeroen Brink]

Any way you slice it, the thing he did in Dijon 1979 on raceday comes in a sense close to a knighting in GP-racing. Remember, his turbo was not functioning properly either - so he may indeed have been on a par with the Peoples' Champion.

As to his relation with Prost: the latter wept as a schoolboy with a bladder problem while Rene did not let him pass to give him the victory in Paul Ricard in 1982. I was there and I lost a lost of respect for Alain, he regained it not earlier than a decade later.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Jeroen Brink
As to his relation with Prost: the latter wept as a schoolboy with a bladder problem while Rene did not let him pass to give him the victory in Paul Ricard in 1982. I was there and I lost a lost of respect for Alain, he regained it not earlier than a decade later.

Nigel Roebuck told the story that Alain was filling his car up in France a few days later, and the station attendant, half recognizing him, congratulated him on winning the French GP and not handing it over to the arrogant Prost. Alain decided to pay in cash, rather than use his credit card...

(BTW, anyone else remember the story Roebuck told about when he was interviewing Prost and someone came up and asked Nigel to autograph his book, and completely blanked Prost? Alain apparently laughed and said 'zis ees what 'appens when you sit wiz someone famous...'.)

Anyone with any comments about Rene's early GP entries with Martini and Surtees? Perhaps Mike Knight's comments above suggest why Rene was chosen for the former.

[holiday]

Originally posted by ensign14
Nigel Roebuck told the story that Alain was filling his car up in France a few days later, and the station attendant, half recognizing him, congratulated him on winning the French GP and not handing it over to the arrogant Prost. Alain decided to pay in cash, rather than use his credit card...

Hehe, Roebuck also told the story that Arnoux actually gave his word on his initiative to hand over victory to Prost if there had existed the possibility. On raceday then he had a lapse of memory...Never mind the fact that only Prost had a realistic chance for the title, I know what would have happened to 'team players' like Arnoux at Ferrari today...

And oh, Prost had a serious mechanical failure at his Turbo hampering him. Its not like he wouldnt have tried if he could have. Look up Roebucks column for that, too.

[Mohican]

We do all know what would have happened to a team player like Arnoux at Ferrari today - and so what ? Whoever said that the Schumacher version of doing things was right ?

When McLaren ran Senna and Prost together, either was allowed to win. Ditto when Prost and Mansell ran together at Ferrari (that Nigel did not believe it is another thing entirely).

Prost is often lauded for not having blocked Senna's joining McLaren in 1988; whereas we all know that Senna blocked warwick at Lotus, etc, etc.

In retrospect, maybe Prost learnt something from his time at Renault ? Where management was quick to accomodate him, by getting rid of Arnoux at the end of '82, just to be equally quick in dispensing with Prost himself 12 months later.

[eldougo]

To me RENE ARNOUX was one of the best drivers i ever seen an i agree with Jeroen , after
being there that day an watching it from the pits it was just UNREAL.Long live SIR RENE.

[holiday]

Originally posted by Mohican
We do all know what would have happened to a team player like Arnoux at Ferrari today - and so what ? Whoever said that the Schumacher version of doing things was right ?

The success and the return of investment for Ferrari.

Arnoux hampered seriously Prosts WDC chances (equivalent to: Renaults WDC chances since he was the only driver in the running). Therefore he did wrong at the French GP 1982, not in his own opinion of course, but in the opinion of everybody else in the team.

And the comparison to Prost and Senna at McLaren isnt valid. It was clear from the outset that one of them would win the WDC, hence the WDC for McLaren was always a sure one. In contrast to 1982 where Arnoux just spoiled Prosts WDC chances without enhancing his own not by a trace element. BIG difference there.

[eldougo]

quote:Holiday

"Raikkonen is an anti- personality and reminds me of Bjorn Borg. There's something there because there is nothing there."
- Direct hit by Eddie Irvine

___________________________________________

I LIKE HIM AS A DRIVER ,HOWEVER HE HAS THE PERSONALITY OF A ICEBERG :rolleyes:I think he should team up with BAGHDAD BOB (iraq information minister)
he could be his spoke man after the race.