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The Australian constructors


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#51 Allen Brown

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 12:40

Dick

Delighted to see a Dolphin emerge.

How did Baker identify these cars? Were they just Dolphin 1, Dolphin 2 and Dolphin 3 or was he any more scientific than that? Does yours have a number of any sort?

Do you know if the frames came with him from England or whether they were produced locally?

Thanks

Allen

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#52 David McKinney

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 15:54

Is that a reference to the Dolphin-England, Allen?

#53 Allen Brown

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 16:50

Originally posted by David McKinney
Is that a reference to the Dolphin-England, Allen?

Err ... Yes. Have I hooked the wrong sort of Dolphin? My memory was saying Tony Stewart, rather than Max, in the Dolphin-England so I was wondering if I'd missing something.

Allen

#54 David McKinney

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 18:13

OK, so my joke backfired
You asked about the frames coming from England and I made a hilarious pun about Dolphin-Englands :smoking:

#55 Ray Bell

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 21:44

Originally posted by Allen Brown
.....My memory was saying Tony Stewart, rather than Max, in the Dolphin-England so I was wondering.....


Same car, IIRC (and I'm sure I do...)

Max Stewart and Tony Stewart were somewhat close in those times. Tony was related to Jack Godbehear, who was a part of the Paul England Engineering establishment... I think he was his nephew.

For all that, I don't think Max had much to do with Paul England otherwise, usually these relationships are broader than 'just one engine'... though Max did have a funny twin cam head he was developing c. 1974/5 in the March he ran in ANF2... I seem to recall it had downdraught inlet ports, but was otherwise the normal Cosworth/Lotus design. Maybe Paul had some part in that project?

At one time, late and in the dark of night at Warwick Farm, Max somehow upset Jill Hindmarsh with his and particularly Tony's language. As it became worse, Jill spoke up: "We have a young driver in our team (Bill Fanning) and he doesn't use language like that!"

Without blinking (he might have fallen over with any rapid movement anyway!) Tony responded... "Well, f*%k me!"

Anyway, Allen, though I'm sure you're on top of it all, this helps you understand a little more about Dolphins and England. And David McKinney's jokes...

#56 eldougo

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Posted 09 May 2003 - 22:12

:wave:

Welcome aboard Dick!!!---------Great to see your name up on the screen.

Doug( eldougo) Grant :up:

#57 Dick Willis

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Posted 10 May 2003 - 04:06

Thanks for the compliments, guys, don't get many these days !
Firstly, to Brian Lear re; Cooper Maseratis, I'll do some more research on these, particularly the ones which used to live in Australia and the one now for sale in UK which was mentioned in a previous thread about a year ago, might even be worth starting a new thread.
To Allen Brown re Dolphin chassis numbers. I am relying here on the notes which came with my car by Bryan Miller, NSW CAMS Eligibility Officer, from whom I purchased the car and who had carried out intensive research to differentiate the three cars.Bryan identifed the cars as car 1,2 and 3 as they carried no frame numbers.
Car 1; Sold new to Tony Stewart from Melbourne ( no relation to Max as far as I am aware), then to Werner Rodkin and is the car I referred to previously that I am unaware of its whereabouts.
Car 2; Sold new to Chris Farrell,then to Ray Hanger, both of whom are currently racing in Australian historics. In the post contemporary period it passed through several owners before being restored, but not raced in historics by Ken Miller. As previously mentioned it is now owned by Dean Hefren and has always been known as the Dolphin 732 and is believed to have a genuine chassis.
Car 3; My car, After trying to sell it for several years it was eventually acquired by Paul England, noted Australian hillclimber, engine builder etc. it was fitted with a BDA and a wide March type nose and driven by Peter Larner in the NZ Stuyvesant series in 1978, but without much success as it was well and truly outdated by then. After that it went to Queensland but was not raced again until Bryan Miller rescued it c. 1992. I have some recollection, that, during Paul England's ownership it was sometimes referred to as the Braham England.
I hope all this clears up the mystery somewhat, even if the descriptions are necessarily brief, are there are several pages of these notes.

#58 Ray Bell

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Posted 10 May 2003 - 10:31

No, Tony certainly wasn't related to Max... like I mentioned, he was the nephew or something of Jack Godbehear.

Chris Farrell, of course, is well known to those in touch with F3 in England in the 70s and 80s... he ran there under his entrant name of Milldent Racing. He might also have pulled a tooth or two out of forum members... you never know... he had four or five nurses prepping patients so he could haul out some molars and drill bigger holes in others.

When you say a 'genuine chassis' Dick, do you mean an original ex-Ronny frame?

#59 Paul Newby

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Posted 10 May 2003 - 14:38

I'm a bit vague on this one, but I'm sure Ray has an answer. :)

There was a sports racer by the name of Nola, or was it Nolus? Came across a Parramatta solicitor by the name of Howard Robilliard, who had a framed photo of car that he used to race at Oran Park. I think we're talking early 80's. Can't recall whether he sold the car or has retained it, on blocks in a shed.

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#60 Ray Bell

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Posted 10 May 2003 - 21:09

Howard Robilliard raced a Sprite, or Midget anyway, from memory...

The Nola name was from the eldest of the Nolan boys, Alan Nolan, who first (or first that I know of...) built a Clubman style car with a Holden engine. This could well be the car Howard had, as the second Nola was the Nola Chev, built around parts from the John Leffler Bowin P8 F5000.

Alan still races this car, though it's in Historic Racing today, and by some miracle John Joyce reclaimed the chassis of the P8 moments before Nolan was about to put the tin snips to it for some bracket material or something!

John was going to rebuild it sometime, but as we learned from Adam on these pages, his life was simply too short. I think Adam might make a personal project of it, however...

And Bowin themselves?

After a number of years (eight or nine?) of race car production and projects, Bowin transformed itself (gradually) into a maker of commercial cooking gear...

#61 Dick Willis

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Posted 10 May 2003 - 22:16

Ray, my notes say that Don Baker bought it from Arch Motors.

#62 john medley

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Posted 10 May 2003 - 22:19

I add my belated welcome to this forum to you,Dick. It seems entirely appropriate that you make your TNF entry through a thread on Australian Constructors: as I recall that scrapbook of yours, you have driven /raced a large number of them including some not so far mentioned in this thread, from the Milano that was your first racing car to the Ausper( Australian built in the UK) that is your latest.
By the way just to set you off on one of those investigations, did you notice that one of the legal people involved with the Turned Up Missing Not Murdered Girl in Rockhampton went by the name of Adrian Gundelach ( that's how it was spelt in the newspaper )? ie same as Tom Hawkes partner in Ausper?
See you in the front bar at 6 at the Pinsent?

#63 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 May 2003 - 01:16

And along the way he had one of those very popular, extremely neat and rapid Cheetahs...

Not to mention the Mousetrap Cooper, of course.

#64 Dick Willis

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Posted 11 May 2003 - 02:26

Thanks John, that's a date, and I would certainly like to talk to Adrian Gundlach about Auspers, but that's probably a subject for another thread sometime.
Interesting that you should mention Cheetahs, Ray. Brian Shead was an outstanding Ausralian constructor, I think his highlight must have been in the late seventies when he, Brian Sampson and Peter Macrow were virtually unbeatable in Aust F3. Brian built, I think, 16 Cheetah Mark sixes virtually single handed in a shed behind his Melbourne house, between 1975-77. Almost all were Corolla powered F3 cars and a few appear in Australian hstoric racing today.
Mine is configured as a hillclimb car powered by a 250hp Cosworth Sierra motor, sticky tyres, low gearing and a small radiator, and is quite a weapon, still competitive with much more modern and got FTD at Grafton hillclimb last week. The interesting thing is, unlike most seventies racing cars, you can still ring the original manufacturer and buy parts.
Originally the cars were not fitted with chassis platesor numbers, being simply known as, in my car's example, as the "Engel" car after the original owner. These days, numbers have been assigned to the cars, again in my cars case, 636, 6 denoting Mk6, 3 denting Formula 3 and 6 the build number.
Brian went on to build several Cheetah Mk 7's and Mk 8's which were mostly Golf powered for ANF2 although he also built a few BDA powered Mk 8's for Formula Atlantic/Pacific or whatever it was called. He then built a final Mk9 for Formula Holden.

#65 Ray Bell

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Posted 11 May 2003 - 02:39

Brian also had a changeover system when he introduced the Mk 6, Dick.

If you had a Mk 5, you could take the chassis to him and he would alter it the little bit that was necessary and reskin it to the Mk 6 configuration.

He also did a similar thing for the ANF2 runners when 'ground effects' came in. Keep your old suspension bits and just fit this new tub etc... a cheap changeover.

No doubt this accounts for a few more Cheetahs in Historic Racing than existed originally?

#66 275 GTB-4

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 03:21

Originally posted by Paul Newby
K & A (Harry Aust and Dale Koennecke) from SA were responsible for the awesome Veskanda that John Bowe used to win the 1986 Aust Sportcars C'ship and set outright lap records which stood for years. K & A also worked fairly closely with Elfin and built Tony Edmondson's Alfetta GT sports sedan amongst others.


Talking briefly to one of the Clearihans today....was told thay have a clone of the Edmonson Alfetta they are working on.....which they hope to race in Historics.

#67 275 GTB-4

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 03:27

Originally posted by Bondy
The Kaditcha's were around a fair old while, Barry Lock building some very nice and effective cars, namely the Kaditcha line of ANF2 cars which Bob Power was very effective in, the car he built for Romano was pretty awesome as well as the other sporties, i always thought the SR781 Sportie that Jeff Harris raced was a good looking gadget, the original owners name escapes me, he was a Queenslander who ran a Rennamx BMW before buying the Kadiitcha.


talking to one of the Clearihans today....I was admiring a beautiful large colour photo on the wall of a Kaditcha F5000 based sports car (looked a little like a "lowline" Honda intregra R mit big wing)...currently in QLD.

#68 Catalina Park

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 10:18

I stole Chris Clearihans rental car at Surfers Raceway in 1982, I wonder if he found it? :lol:

#69 Falcadore

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 10:23

Barry Lock also built one (as far as I can tell only one) sedan type car, and that car survives in Queensland as well as the Leyford GT.

BHR fabrications has recently stepped up in speedway and is now building Sprintcars under the brand label 'Razor' and a cheaper rival to Nathan Macdonalds 'Cheetahs' or (insert forgotten name here) 'Cools'.

#70 Falcadore

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 12:51

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4


Talking briefly to one of the Clearihans today....was told thay have a clone of the Edmonson Alfetta they are working on.....which they hope to race in Historics.


Is this the former yellow Ignis backed example Chris driver just over a decade ago?

#71 fausto

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 21:32

the JWS '84 C2 sportscar:

http://gto-racing.ne...C2_JWSmazda.htm

#72 275 GTB-4

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 10:03

Originally posted by Falcadore


Is this the former yellow Ignis backed example Chris driver just over a decade ago?


Falc...dunno...you would have to ask them.

#73 275 GTB-4

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 10:05

Originally posted by Catalina Park
I stole Chris Clearihans rental car at Surfers Raceway in 1982, I wonder if he found it? :lol:


Mike...are you familiar with the Statute of Limitations on Grand Theft - Auto?? :cat:

#74 Catalina Park

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 10:51

We were out on the track and when we went to park the car in the pits someone had parked a rent-a-car in our spot, so I moved it! A bit later Chris wandered in looking for his car...... :lol:

#75 petefenelon

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 13:16

Originally posted by fausto
the JWS '84 C2 sportscar:


From distant memory, there were several cars at Sandown '84 that didn't quite fit Groups B or C - the JWS (intended as a C2) and the Romano (C1-ish, IIRC) weren't quite Group C cars, Jim Richards' BMW and the Grice/Johnson Chevy weren't quite Group B or IMSA, and God knows what the Merc-Chevy (of which I know nothing more, and TATS is at home...) was meant to be - so a special "Australian Cars" class was created for that race only. Richards' BMW, despite being the least potent vehicle in the class, won - 'cos it was the only classified finisher.

#76 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 22:22

Indeed, as with the 24-hour at Bathurst, if there were no class for local cars it would be promotional suicide... though I think the Sandown event was anyway...

The Mercedes-Chev was Bryan Thomson's car, presumably fitted with the Peter Fowler-designed and built quad cam 4-valve heads. These cars are Sports Sedans, more or less a silhouette class.

Catalina... how far did you move it? And was Chris really parked where he shouldn't?

#77 Catalina Park

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 11:03

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Catalina... how far did you move it?


I moved it behind the toilets!

And was Chris really parked where he shouldn't?

Well, he was parked in our tent! :lol:

#78 petefenelon

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 12:33

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Indeed, as with the 24-hour at Bathurst, if there were no class for local cars it would be promotional suicide... though I think the Sandown event was anyway...

The Mercedes-Chev was Bryan Thomson's car, presumably fitted with the Peter Fowler-designed and built quad cam 4-valve heads. These cars are Sports Sedans, more or less a silhouette class.

Catalina... how far did you move it? And was Chris really parked where he shouldn't?



I thought the JWS and the Romano were intended to be proper Group C cars, but the constructors had misinterpreted the rules...

#79 h4887

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 19:45

Originally posted by Bruce Moxon

There were also the Milano GTs of the sixties - glass-bodied coupes with MG running gear early on and Holden sixes later.

Bruce Moxon

This Milano GT was at the HSCC meeting at Snetterton last Sunday (17/4/05)

It won.
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#80 Ray Bell

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 21:04

...and nicely unoriginal it is, too!

#81 Lukin

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 02:25

The workshop in Perth that used to run a Formula Ford I worked on (Ktec Porsche, owned by Kevin Clifton) now houses the Veskanda, well sort of. It is a great shame, but it's in parts at the moment. I heard at one point it was going to be housed at Shacks Holden, but I guess it never made it.

http://members.iinet...jason/Veskanda/

#82 Falcadore

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 06:11

Originally posted by Bruce Moxon
Thank God you're here John, a real expert!

Greg McCombie's (with Steve Cramp) Concept Vees were good bits of kit. They used a modified Rennmax chassis design (Bob Brittain even lent them his jig) and had some success.

I forgot Jason and David Cutt's Jacers, very neat Vees with some inspiration from the USA's "zero roll" cars. Jason is now only building Formula First cars - with the bigger 1600 engine and disc brakes.

Bruce Moxon


One of those Concept Vees still runs up here in Queensland Vee championship. Mike Russell owns this GS82 which has been modifiend to push the seat further back, abd no longer looks as driver-forward was the Williams FW07 that inspired it. The car was one of the first Queensland cars to convert to 1600 Vee specs and is sometimes driven by a very capable driver called Nick Leontsinis who in this ageing car can outrace the best 1200s in the state and finish top four snapping at the heels of the Jacers, Jabirus and an Elfin that wear 1600s. Not bad considering the healthy growing state of Vees in Qld and the fact the rear shocks in that Concept haven't been touched since new. If the car bottoms out at the back it stays that way...

Nathan Macdonald's Cheetah sprintcar chassis have been going great guns this season with Terry Bracken winning three A-Mains and Paul Rooks and Ricky Mitchell showing promise in their cars and Dan Morton looking very quick. Darren Jensen also provided a first ever A-Main win for Razor this season.

There is a Bulant seen in Qld Sports Car Championship reguarly, a Mk.7 Suzuki powered Sports 1300 owned by Byron Bay racer Peter Hill.

With Australian open wheelers dominated by imported chassis and sports car racing non-existant it's been in areas like Sports1300/Supersports and Sports Sedans were any inovative race engineering has been done at all.

The Hooper-Suzuki is one example of a magnificently built car, the last Sports 1300 ever built in Australia before the advent of Supersports, the car was later converted to Supersports regualtions and John Campbell drove the car to two Australian championship before the car was eventually sold. The other new Queensland built sports car was Grant Watson's Prosport Mulsanne. Kawasaki powered the Muslanne finally won the championship this year. It's a very nice car and has been the measure of Peter Sauderson's Radical Clubsport (a clone of the British built one make car IIRC) which won the last two NSW championships. Watson has been building small sports cars for several seasons. His previous car the Prosport Pentium still races in NSW and he had another design before the Pentium of which I can't recall. There may have been two or three Pentiums built and Watson is pushing to try and get some sales happenning for his very nice Mulsanne design, which briefly held the outright lap record at Morgan Park in the hands of recent Formula 4000 competitor Ash Lowe.

The other Queensland car of note is brand new. Geoff Gillespie's sports sedan has been underconstruction for seven years, with a back to drawing board moment a long the way with the car's construction. The car, a BMW E36 bodyshape M3 has an E30 2.5 litre touring car BMW four-pot with a massive truck turbo attached. The drivetrain, wheels, front and rear suspension, gearbox etc is all TWR Jaguar sports car from the late 80's/early 90s. With the budget to sort, this car could become what Keith Carling's 300ZX was, the great white hope for non-Chev V8 cars.

I got some photos of it here somewhere, when I find them I'll try to stick them up.

But it's comforting to know that there are those willing to strike out on their own paths in buildings cars cars and the art of the Australian special does still carry on.

#83 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 06:44

Originally posted by Falcadore
.....the car was later converted to Supersports regualtions and John Campbell drove the car to two Australian championship before the car was eventually sold.....


When were the rules changed to allow an Australian Championship for this class/these classes?

.....But it's comforting to know that there are those willing to strike out on their own paths in buildings cars cars and the art of the Australian special does still carry on.


Indeedy! May it never end... and may there always be a few classes in which they can show their skills without being hamstrung by regulations that make it nigh-on impossible to do anything but order in a factory chassis!

#84 Terry Walker

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 08:19

In the 1970s John Hagarty built several Haggis clubman cars in Western Australia, developed from the U2 design. They were very successful on the track, but not financially for Hagarty. He was at that time working with John Harris, hence Haggis.

Jaime Gard was responsible for numerous cars, from the ultra low-line "BMC" with the shark nose (1961 or 1962) through a Gard or two, to the two Gardos cars.

#85 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 08:24

'Gardos', of course, being the amalgamation of 'Gard' and a part of 'O'Sullivan'... Don being the man who funded the latter ventures.

#86 Falcadore

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 08:35

Originally posted by Ray Bell


When were the rules changed to allow an Australian Championship for this class/these classes?


I dunno, but a friend of mine Ash Lowe was quite keen to point out to me all the names on the Sports 1300 trophy he won last year and the history involved therein. Why would it not have been? It's hardly a new category. I do find it odd that they could award a national championship to a stand alone event after CAMS revision of national championships last year that they can only be awarded to a series of four events or longer. Having said that the two divisions of gearbox Superkarts that were able to get around that and have an Australian championship awarded for the 250 International and 125 Gearbox divisions this year from only two rounds (won by Warren McIlveen and Sam Zavaglia respectively).

It seems the difinition of what is and is not a national championship can be blurred or bent at will. So if you know better please dive and say so.

And in case you ask, Superkart is a CAMS division, not AKA.

And also from my last visit to CAMS offices I certainly recall a trophy in the board room for the Sports 1300 division amongst the collection of ancient silverware including all the other perputal national championship trophies, the Gold Star, Touring Car, Sports Sedan, Production Cars, Formula Ford etc In what other capacity might such a trophy be awarded?

#87 275 GTB-4

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 09:40

Originally posted by Falcadore
I do find it odd that they could award a national championship to a stand alone event after CAMS revision of national championships last year that they can only be awarded to a series of four events or longer.


Falc....the ATCC Championship was decided on one race for many years,,,,,,?

#88 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 09:47

It was a part of the NCRs that there be no National Championship for Vees, Clubmans (Sports 1300s now...) and Formula 3 (when that was a 1300cc formula...

When F3 got ditched in favour of the single cam 1600cc F2, the old F2 title migrated to that category. But the restriction remained in place.

But the guys did want to get together and race on a kind of a 'national' scale... so under the umbrella of the PIARC, the Vee Associations got together and organised a 'National Challenge'. That was in the early seventies, IIRC. By the end of the seventies the Clubmans were doing the same.

I noticed that this migratory single race had become called a Championship about eight years ago. It isn't such under the CAMS rules, but it's run by the Associations and not the CAMS, and the CAMS have forgotten to stamp on them for calling the races 'Championships' instead of 'Challenges'.

I think it's possible that there is a similar restriction on FF. But there is (or was?) a national 'Driver to Europe' series... different thing altogether.

And yes, Mick, the ATCC was a single race until about 1969/70, so was the Australian Sports Car Championship (then known as the ATT)... but there were strange happenings in the sports car field... when the CAMS wanted to wipe big sporties, they gave the Championship to Prod Sports and gave the )single race) TT to the open cars.

#89 Falcadore

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 11:48

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4


Falc....the ATCC Championship was decided on one race for many years,,,,,,?


The 4 event minimum revision was made in 2004 for the 2005 season. I don't think they planned to back date it to the 60's.

#90 275 GTB-4

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 11:55

Originally posted by Falcadore


The 4 event minimum revision was made in 2004 for the 2005 season. I don't think they planned to back date it to the 60's.


Oops!....just a an aside not meant to aggravate anyone....peace Falc...Happy New Year :cool:

#91 Falcadore

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 12:00

Originally posted by Ray Bell
It was a part of the NCRs that there be no National Championship for Vees, Clubmans (Sports 1300s now...) and Formula 3 (when that was a 1300cc formula...

When F3 got ditched in favour of the single cam 1600cc F2, the old F2 title migrated to that category. But the restriction remained in place.

But the guys did want to get together and race on a kind of a 'national' scale... so under the umbrella of the PIARC, the Vee Associations got together and organised a 'National Challenge'. That was in the early seventies, IIRC. By the end of the seventies the Clubmans were doing the same.

I noticed that this migratory single race had become called a Championship about eight years ago. It isn't such under the CAMS rules, but it's run by the Associations and not the CAMS, and the CAMS have forgotten to stamp on them for calling the races 'Championships' instead of 'Challenges'.

I think it's possible that there is a similar restriction on FF. But there is (or was?) a national 'Driver to Europe' series... different thing altogether.

And yes, Mick, the ATCC was a single race until about 1969/70, so was the Australian Sports Car Championship (then known as the ATT)... but there were strange happenings in the sports car field... when the CAMS wanted to wipe big sporties, they gave the Championship to Prod Sports and gave the )single race) TT to the open cars.


Going by fading memory from the last appearance of the "Clubman" Championship (they've been called Supersports for about four years now) up here in Queensland, CAMS have'nt forgotten to charge fees appropriate to a national championship meeting :p

And I bet Mr Nethercoate is claiming the Vees have a national championship. Last year the national championship was won at Mallala by a chap called Nethercoate.

The name Grand Prix was attached to certain major open wheel events retroactively many moons ago. It appears these one off races have become called National Championships, without actually acquiring the correct rubber stamp to proclaim themselves to be national championships.

The last year of the Driver to Europe series for Formula Ford was 1995. The first Australian Formula Ford Championship was held in 1996. There was a big hullabaloo at the time over the change in status of the series.

So the basic difference between Championship and Challenge is the correct rubber stamp from Melbourne?

#92 Falcadore

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 12:02

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4


Oops!....just a an aside not meant to aggravate anyone....peace Falc...Happy New Year :cool:


Didn't mean it to sound aggressive. Sorry if I sounded so :pI was just on the inside of things with all the cr.. stuff the Superkarters had to go to to keep their National Championship status this year. The end result brought new meaning to technicality.

#93 275 GTB-4

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 12:02

Originally posted by Falcadore


The 4 event minimum revision was made in 2004 for the 2005 season. I don't think they planned to back date it to the 60's.


Oops!....we are supposed to be exalting the days gone by :cool:

#94 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 20:20

Originally posted by Falcadore
Going by fading memory from the last appearance of the "Clubman" Championship (they've been called Supersports for about four years now) up here in Queensland, CAMS have'nt forgotten to charge fees appropriate to a national championship meeting


I don't know about that... what else was happening at that race meeting? And who charged the fees?

.....And I bet Mr Nethercoate is claiming the Vees have a national championship. Last year the national championship was won at Mallala by a chap called Nethercoate.....


Oh yes, that could change things!

.....The name Grand Prix was attached to certain major open wheel events retroactively many moons ago. It appears these one off races have become called National Championships, without actually acquiring the correct rubber stamp to proclaim themselves to be national championships.....


How so? In other words, where are they proclaimed to be Nat Champs?

There were two such races... the '100 Miles Road Race' at Phillip Island in 1928 and the 'South Australian Centenary Grand Prix' in 1936, which naturally became the 1937 AGP.

.....The last year of the Driver to Europe series for Formula Ford was 1995. The first Australian Formula Ford Championship was held in 1996. There was a big hullabaloo at the time over the change in status of the series.....


Underlining what I said... previously there was no national 'Championship'...

.....So the basic difference between Championship and Challenge is the correct rubber stamp from Melbourne?


Essentially, yes... but to understand why is important.

The categories with this restriction are all intended to be entry-level classes. Vees, Clubmans, FF. Precluding them from having a national championship helped reduce their stature so Mr Moneybags was less likely to come in and dominate the show and cause a huge elevation in spending...

Tough titties today with that! 'Pushy Dad' has arrived in a big way and with a big wallet, and costs are so out of control in the upper levels that these classes have no choice but to follow suit.

Along with following the path of diminishing returns...

#95 2Bob

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Posted 31 December 2005 - 06:59

To get back on track(!):

ASP is alive and well in Adelaide. Rory Thompson who was designer for ASP has now built a Commodore V6 engined 'Morgan looking' clubman style car and has been rdiving it on the road for some time now. See
http://groups.msn.co...AlphaSportsCars

Ian Richards has 'built' (well very highly modified) a Daihatsu TRXX turbo 4WD sedan which he hillclimbs - he also has connections with Bronte Rundl's BRM F3 team. Mike Drewer who used to race ASPs in the 70s still has the Richards F2 that he raced. Mike is PR/Marketing person for Clipsal 500 and used to do similar for the Adelaide F1.

The Cicadas that got mentioned earlier were built by Doug Trengrove - at least some of them while working for ASP and some have a remarkable similarity to ASPs - and they were more his creation than of Don Fraser I believe. One of Doug's sons drove a F5000 for awhile but was unfortunatley killed in it at Adelaide International Raceway (in private practice I think). Another of Doug's sons is father of Paul Trengrove who has raced F3 and F4000 in the last few years. It would seem that all of the Trengroves raced (and still do) on a real shoe string but all seem to have bags of ability.

I met up with Guy Buckingham in the UK in 1976 when he was building a FF. Don't know whatever happened to that though.

There is at least one Bulant regularly running in Hillclimbs in SA along with Historic races.

#96 Ray Bell

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Posted 31 December 2005 - 08:30

Originally posted by 2Bob
.....Mike Drewer who used to race ASPs in the 70s still has the Richards F2 that he raced. Mike is PR/Marketing person for Clipsal 500 and used to do similar for the Adelaide F1.....


I don't recall Mike in an ASP... Butcher and Hosking, yes, and there was a roady ASP or two, but Mike I have in a Farrell at that time.

.....The Cicadas that got mentioned earlier were built by Doug Trengrove - at least some of them while working for ASP and some have a remarkable similarity to ASPs - and they were more his creation than of Don Fraser I believe.....


Undoubtedly seen as Don's creations because he was the one in them all the time? Or his son, of course, Stephen.

..... One of Doug's sons drove a F5000 for awhile but was unfortunatley killed in it at Adelaide International Raceway (in private practice I think). Another of Doug's sons is father of Paul Trengrove who has raced F3 and F4000 in the last few years. It would seem that all of the Trengroves raced (and still do) on a real shoe string but all seem to have bags of ability.....


That was Colin who was killed... but as for the 'bags of ability' bit, I suppose I can reveal this now.

A bunch of his mates organised a bus trip to Sandown for his F5000 debut (or maybe second outing?) "to see him crash." They had little confidence in him, but none of them would ever have dreamed he would die in that car. Yes, private practice at AIR.

.....I met up with Guy Buckingham in the UK in 1976 when he was building a FF. Don't know whatever happened to that though.....


He finally came back to Australia, I believe. Maybe not permanently. And Chris is still at it here.

.....There is at least one Bulant regularly running in Hillclimbs in SA along with Historic races.


What sort of Bulant?

#97 cavvy

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Posted 31 December 2005 - 10:27

West Aus manufacturer of the late 60s early 70s, the Fielding.

Roger Fielding was a Brit who came to Perth with a Lotus 23 - had a workshop in Wembley.

Built a Formula Ford & I think Bob Creasy ran it - he then appeared in a Fielding F2. I guessed it was the FF uprated, but as both the FF & the F2 compete on the WA historics scene there were at least 2 cars.

Fielding went back home I believe - the Lotus 23 remained: is it the one Murray Charnley owns/owned?

Checked Terry Walkers CD ROM version of Around The Houses, but the Fielding did not feature.

#98 Terry Walker

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Posted 31 December 2005 - 11:13

Hi, Cavvo. There's a picture of the unfinished Fielding under "Bob Creasey" in the Around the Houses CD ROM.

And yes, Murray Charnley's Lotus 23B is the ex-Fielding car.

I really ought to have included an Index on the CD-ROM but given no page numbers, how??

#99 Ray Bell

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Posted 31 December 2005 - 11:43

Maybe I'm wrong... but I've got an idea it was 'Feilding'...

Am I wrong?

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#100 Terry Walker

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Posted 31 December 2005 - 12:02

I've only ever seen it as Fielding, in race programmes etc, and when Roger was racing his TR, in race reports. etc.