24 replies to this topic

[cybersdorf]

hello everyone,

I am new to this board, and from what I have seen so far I am very impressed with your knowledge motor racing history. It seems there isn't much - if anything! - you don't know about the stars & cars of the past & present.

Therefore, you will surely know something about this:



I found this when I was looking for information on a Gp.7 built in the early 70s by AMG, and introduced on German TV back then; I only ever got to see a few seconds of that footage. - The image shows the old AMG shop back in 1972. The car in the foreground is a Gp.7 car, but it is not the car shown on TV; or it doesn't look like it, anyway. It is a McLaren M8FP, chassis no. 72-04. It was acquired as a brand new chassis by AMG from McLaren, and - supposedly - fitted with a 6.8l engine (based on the 300SEL 6.8 touring car engine I assume). It took part in the 1972 Interserie round at Imola, driven by Hans Heyer; the result is given as "DNF - engine". To find out more about this car's history, and contacted the Bruce McLaren Trust, and got this reply from Mr. Craig Pence who tells me that "...72/04 is the only M8FP we haven't found. I have also seen the picture on the AMG web site. We believe it was raced with a Mercedes sports car body. I have seen a picture of a Mercedes sports car of the period with McLaren wheels. - I have tried to contact AMG but have had no luck. If you know anything about the car, I would be glad to pass it on to the Trust or give you a better e-mail address."

Was there a bespoke AMG Gp.7 car, or was it the rebodied M8FP?
It only ever raced once; was it in original configuration, or rebodied?
What happened to it after Imola 1972?
Does it still exist today, and if so, with what engine?

Perhaps you can help me with this.

[Jeremy Jackson]

Hi cybers, welcome, nice to see you here!

If anyone can take you further than the historical info. I gave you on DSC, then it's the folks here. Hope you get some progress.

[Milan Fistonic]

From the Motoring News report of the opening round of the 1972 Interserie Trophy series at The Nurburgring on Easter Monday.

The German AMG tuning company entered its new Mclaren M8F, with the 6.8-litre Mercedes engine, but supply difficulty from Trojans meant that the chassis didn't arrive in time.


From the report of the Imola race.

...Hans Heyer, the saloon ace debuting the Mercedes engined AMG entered and prepared M8F...

Practice

Hans Heyer in the Mercedes engined McLaren joined Pesch on the sixth row after an early spin had crunched the bodywork quite badly, and obviously the engine still needs sorting before becoming fully competitive.

Heat One

... and Heyer retired his McLaren after over-reving the underpowered car.


From the report of round three at Silverstone.

The AMG McLaren-Mercedes was a disappointing non-starter.

[cybersdorf]

Thanks for these results, looks like we're getting someplace already

Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
If anyone can take you further than the historical info. I gave you on DSC, then it's the folks here. Hope you get some progress.

Jeremy, you could be right - I have a feeling that if this board doesn't know, nobody knows.

[Jeremy Jackson]

It seemed a bit of a mystery at the time, I went to the Silverstone Interserie race in 1972, and was one of the disappointed ones, when I had to scribble 'NS' against it in my programme!

But then, it didn't appear anywhere else either...

[cybersdorf]

Did it have the McLaren bodywork, or was it rebodied by AMG?

[Jeremy Jackson]

There are 2 photographs from Imola in Autosport's report; A close-up of the engine bay , and one of Heyer following Marko's BRM.

It was standard M8F bodywork.

[cybersdorf]

Which would suggest that the car didn't show up to any races was because first, it was being modified, and then those changes turned out not to be working.

[Jeremy Jackson]

The reason for the non-appearance at Silverstone was given as problems with Turbocharging the 6.8 litre engine. In it's normally aspirated form at Imola, it was reportedly about 200 bhp down on the Chevrolets, and much heavier.

None of the reports from later races in Autosport for 1972 mention it's continuing non-appearance, so maybe no entries were made for races after Silverstone.

[René de Boer]

Had I known this before the weekend, I could have asked Hans Werner Aufrecht of AMG in Hockenheim. I will definitely ask him about the car when we are racing with the DTM in Italy next week. In case you want to know anything in specific, please post it here and I will gladly pass it on.

[Holger Merten]

Originally posted by cybersdorf
hello everyone,

I am new to this board, and from what I have seen so far I am very impressed with your knowledge motor racing history. It seems there isn't much - if anything! - you don't know about the stars & cars of the past & present.

Therefore, you will surely know something about this:



I found this when I was looking for information on a Gp.7 built in the early 70s by AMG, and introduced on German TV back then; I only ever got to see a few seconds of that footage. - The image shows the old AMG shop back in 1972. The car in the foreground is a Gp.7 car, but it is not the car shown on TV; or it doesn't look like it, anyway. It is a McLaren M8FP, chassis no. 72-04. It was acquired as a brand new chassis by AMG from McLaren, and - supposedly - fitted with a 6.8l engine (based on the 300SEL 6.8 touring car engine I assume). It took part in the 1972 Interserie round at Imola, driven by Hans Heyer; the result is given as "DNF - engine". To find out more about this car's history, and contacted the Bruce McLaren Trust, and got this reply from Mr. Craig Pence who tells me that "...72/04 is the only M8FP we haven't found. I have also seen the picture on the AMG web site. We believe it was raced with a Mercedes sports car body. I have seen a picture of a Mercedes sports car of the period with McLaren wheels. - I have tried to contact AMG but have had no luck. If you know anything about the car, I would be glad to pass it on to the Trust or give you a better e-mail address."

Was there a bespoke AMG Gp.7 car, or was it the rebodied M8FP?
It only ever raced once; was it in original configuration, or rebodied?
What happened to it after Imola 1972?
Does it still exist today, and if so, with what engine?

Perhaps you can help me with this.

There is a long story about the AMG 300 SEL 6.8 in the German classic magazine "Oldtimer-Markt" with some history informations about the mystery Mc Laren. AMG ordered the car in the UK because they had that brilliant 6.8 L engine, which they couldn't use any longer for their touring car engagement, because the FIA changed the rules. Cars over 5000ccm were no longer allowed in the championship.

[Frank de Jong]

Concerning the Mercedes sportscar body, Hans Heyer make a "group C" car in 1980 or 1981 (before the real group C rules were known) which was based on a McLaren but with Mercedes 450SLC bodywork IIRC.
Don't know if the Mercedes engine was in it. Heyer raced the car a few times in Interserie, of course the car was not eligible for anything else, not even group 5.
The car might be based on the earlier McLaren which might have been Heyer's.
I must have info about both cars somewhere, but I'll woth climb the attic before the heatwave over here has lifted a little

[Wolfgang Mathai]

The german magazin "Auto motor und Sport" give information in 1972.
Here the pictures.
© Auto Motor und Sport 1972

http://www.racecar-c...-Mercedes-1.jpg
http://www.racecar-c...-Mercedes-2.jpg
http://www.racecar-c...-Mercedes-3.jpg

[962C]

Originally posted by Frank de Jong
Concerning the Mercedes sportscar body, Hans Heyer make a "group C" car in 1980 or 1981 (before the real group C rules were known) which was based on a McLaren but with Mercedes 450SLC bodywork IIRC.
Don't know if the Mercedes engine was in it. Heyer raced the car a few times in Interserie, of course the car was not eligible for anything else, not even group 5.
The car might be based on the earlier McLaren which might have been Heyer's.
I must have info about both cars somewhere, but I'll woth climb the attic before the heatwave over here has lifted a little

Purely based on my recollections of a couple of articles in the early 80s, I think Hans Heyer's "Gr.C" Mercedes had a Chevy V8.

[simonlewisbooks]

The German magazine HOBBY had a nice colour feature of the car during testing which was published in a 1972 edition (issue Nr.12). I had one in stock a while ago but it went on eBay but the only photo I have on file is this one used in the listing....


Worth checking eBayfor these magazines - I have seen several of them listed over the past couple of years and the article is about 6 or 7 pages in all with about 10 colour photos (from memory)

[962C]

I dug up the January 1st, 1981 issue of AUTOhebdo that has a short article on Hans Heyer's "Gr. C" Mercedes 5.0SLC. In short, it says that the car is based on a McLaren M8F that Heyer originally bought from AMG.
The bit about the engine is particularly unclear, as it mentions a "5l Mercedes V8 that also uses some parts of a Canam Chevrolet V8" (literally translated from French)
So it looks like this car is the rebodied AMG McLaren M8F, although it's not clear if it had its original engine...

Here are a few photographs that accompanied the article:




© AUTOhebdo

[Duc-Man]

I found a picture of the group c Mercedes the McLaren became.


It was still in Hans Heyers hands in 2007.
And it seems that the M8 also still existed after the SLC gr.c was build.

I tried contacting Hans Heyer through his website but the contact form doesn't work.

Edited by Duc-Man, 19 July 2011 - 13:26.

[arttidesco]

Nice find

Looks more '76 - '81 era Group 5 than 82' - '92 era Group C though.

[Duc-Man]

I found the car yesterday at the Hockenheim Historics. It is raced by Peter Hoffmann since years and I never figured because it never occured to me that he might own two M8FPs.

He sold M8F 02-72 (the Kelleners car) last year at the OGP Coys auction. I was really puzzled by the condition of the car since I saw him race at Hockenheim a few month before.

[kayemod]

Nice find

Looks more '76 - '81 era Group 5 than 82' - '92 era Group C though.

 

Yes, a Porsche front end, McPorsche or Porschelaren?

[elansprint72]

http://www.youtube.c...MoD0&feature=kp

[Duc-Man]

Hoffmann raced a M8FP with this front in the Interserie in the early 80ies. One of the Commander M8's was with such a front running in the Can-Am and I think there were a few other M8's with a similar front as well.

[Duc-Man]

The whole article from 'hobby':

[OldMechanic]

Good morning!

 

I just got access to the forum and hoped to be able to see the posted pics of this article. Hello to everybody, this is my first post.

 

I know a bit about #04 (not that there is much to know), since we aim to sell the car.

 

Hoffmann raced it recently (2017, I have to check) when the Chevy blew up in a spectacular way. There is a video online.

After a tedious ordeal of sending the block for re-sleeving to the US (to be stuck at customs), it arrived back in Holland about a year later and is ready to fit since February 2019.

 

However, since the plans to sell it, and some input from friends, Hoffmann considers fitting a Mercedes Motor and the original front (not the so-called "turbo front"), and paint the car in AMG red or Hannen Alt white.

 

This is quite ironic after the tedious engine rebuilt and getting a new FIA pass with Chevy 572 cui. This would make the car very non-competitive...

 

Note:

The Silhouette MB from Heyer has another monocoque. This car was meant to become a Group-C, but the windshield area was too big.

So it got used only for show events, with no, or perhaps "one time" license to race. 

 

M8F 04 was never raced with the intended Turbo motor. It lasted 7 laps in Imola 1972 without turbo. And didn't last even (one?) session on the dyno with turbo. So technically, it was not a turbo Mercedes motor in a AMG prepared McLaren M8F with sponsoring by Hannen-Alt (driven by Heyer) in Imola 1972. I believe it even had an accident at that weekend, during practise or qualifying.

 

All info found elsewhere on the web that 04 and the SL were one car, is wrong. The same applies for Hoffmann's (Kellners') 02 and the Group C which Hoffmann built. This Group C does have its own vehicle pass. 

 

 

 

[Duc-Man]

Good morning!

 

I just got access to the forum and hoped to be able to see the posted pics of this article. Hello to everybody, this is my first post.

 

I know a bit about #04 (not that there is much to know), since we aim to sell the car.

 

Hoffmann raced it recently (2017, I have to check) when the Chevy blew up in a spectacular way. There is a video online.

After a tedious ordeal of sending the block for re-sleeving to the US (to be stuck at customs), it arrived back in Holland about a year later and is ready to fit since February 2019.

 

However, since the plans to sell it, and some input from friends, Hoffmann considers fitting a Mercedes Motor and the original front (not the so-called "turbo front"), and paint the car in AMG red or Hannen Alt white.

 

This is quite ironic after the tedious engine rebuilt and getting a new FIA pass with Chevy 572 cui. This would make the car very non-competitive...

 

Note:

The Silhouette MB from Heyer has another monocoque. This car was meant to become a Group-C, but the windshield area was too big.

So it got used only for show events, with no, or perhaps "one time" license to race. 

 

M8F 04 was never raced with the intended Turbo motor. It lasted 7 laps in Imola 1972 without turbo. And didn't last even (one?) session on the dyno with turbo. So technically, it was not a turbo Mercedes motor in a AMG prepared McLaren M8F with sponsoring by Hannen-Alt (driven by Heyer) in Imola 1972. I believe it even had an accident at that weekend, during practise or qualifying.

 

All info found elsewhere on the web that 04 and the SL were one car, is wrong. The same applies for Hoffmann's (Kellners') 02 and the Group C which Hoffmann built. This Group C does have its own vehicle pass. 

 

Thank you.