24 replies to this topic

[FNG]

I was curious if anyone knows how the car manufacturers are doing in sales in relation to F1 perfromance?
I think i heard that Ferrari are selling more road cars than ever, Mercedes and BMW as well. However how do the sales look if they are not performing? Toyota and Honda haven't been setting the track on fire but haven't been embarrasing either.
I can't help but think that the brand image of Jaguar has tanked over the last few years with their brutal on track perfromance. Anyone have any numbers on this??

Thoughts? Rants? Outbursts?

[BMW FW22]

my father works at BMW, he said they sell ALLOT of merchanising after a good weekend, really... but in cars not really, ofcourse the image is better but that'll be indoctrination

[Ricardo F1]

Ferrari have been selling more and more cars since there line up got better and better. Quite simply you'd have to look at their merchandising sales (which have gone up vastly as well) for any link to their F1 success, the car sales will happen regardless.

[dpardyrx7]

Ferrari is the main benefactor of the win on Sunday sell on Monday mantra. Ever since Michael came to the team and they started winning big time there has been such a demand for both cars (2 year wait) and merchandise that Ferrari has become very profitable and is the only bright spot in the FIAT empire currently. I bought my Ferrari about two years ago and while I always wanted one it was during the 2001 USGP that i decided the timing was right ...

For those of you who think MS is over paid or are just MS bashers in general, when was the last time you saw a Ferrari ad? Well you haven't because Ferrari stopped advertising about 10 years ago. The WDC's and Contructor titles are what sells cars. Pure economics and business.

I also know AUDI has benefitted from their phenomenal LeMan series success. My wife drivs an A4 and we get regular updates from AUDI on their racing program.

I am not sure how BMW is doing, but if the interest generated at the GP's by their drivers is any indication I would say they are doing well.

Also makes me wonder how Jaguar sales are given their on track performance???

[Terramax]

I think Jag will be selling more cars now in Australia ;)

Possibly in other areas of the world as well. Soon to be very popular in Austria

[Northern Boy]

My sense is that most of the manufacturers are in F1 for prestige value as opposed to expecting that their winning performance on the track will result directly in increased sales.
Toyota and Honda are good examples; since their association with BAR, Honda have failed to win a race, and Totota is yet to score even a podium finish yet both mfgrs. continue to sell cars in record numbers. Jaguar is a mystery to me; they seem to have a competitive product, they have a rich history in motorsports, an excellent pedigree, and the marketing might of Ford behind them. You'd think that they would be selling every car that they can build.
Here in Canada Honda has used Jacques Villeneuve in their TV ads looking rather stiff and unconvincing, I might add. His only line in the commercial is, "In every Honda, there is a Honda engine." Really?

[Pioneer]

He's probably thinking "unfortunately"

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by dpardyrx7
Ferrari is the main benefactor of the win on Sunday sell on Monday mantra. Ever since Michael came to the team and they started winning big time there has been such a demand for both cars (2 year wait) and merchandise that Ferrari has become very profitable and is the only bright spot in the FIAT empire currently. I bought my Ferrari about two years ago and while I always wanted one it was during the 2001 USGP that i decided the timing was right ...

Also at this same time was the dotcom boom and a gross of new millionaires. Besides, the kind of person who can afford a Ferrari, is going to get one regardless. Everyone in America (one of their biggest markets) knows Ferrari, almost no one knows F1.

[Nikolas Garth]

Originally posted by Terramax
I think Jag will be selling more cars now in Australia ;)

Possibly in other areas of the world as well. Soon to be very popular in Austria

[Williams]

I am not sure that on-track success has such a great deal to do with Ferrari sales, although I am sure that the public exposure alone keeps the marque in the public eye. Montezemolo once pointed out that some of the best years for Ferrari sales were in the 80's when the Ferrari F1 team was deep in the doldrums. Ferrari success on the sales floor probably has most to do with how the economy and the stock market, and maybe even the quality of the product rather than how many races Michael has won recently.

[Nikolas Garth]

Originally posted by Williams
I am not sure that on-track success has such a great deal to do with Ferrari sales, although I am sure that the public exposure alone keeps the marque in the public eye. Montezemolo once pointed out that some of the best years for Ferrari sales were in the 80's when the Ferrari F1 team was deep in the doldrums. Ferrari success on the sales floor probably has most to do with how the economy and the stock market, and maybe even the quality of the product rather than how many races Michael has won recently.

Whilst I agree with the factors you have mentioned as being particularly significant, I also wonder if there is a lag effect of a couple of years?

Ferrari did win the constructors in 1982, 1983, 2nd in 1984, 1985, perhaps it takes a few bad years before sales drop off, and a few good years before it picks up again too?

[Nustang70]

i was always under the impression that Jaguar's sales had be doing better and better since 2000 despite a poor showing on the track. although i think it has more to do with better and more accessible product than Jaguar's F1 program.

[Terramax]

I think constructors points are only a part of what translates into people buying more cars. I think the whole Webber/Jag combo will be doing their sales a good boost. I know here in Aus I have seen a lot more Jag ads on TV since Webber signed.

If only they could sell a Jag car for every piece of Jag F1 merchandise sold in Australia

[Henri Greuter]

I think the "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday" theory was most valid (if not heritating from!) for NASCAR racing at the time when NASCAR was still genuine stock car racing and not the silhouette formula it eventually became. The time when far more US car builders participated than the 4 that are in the frey right now.

Though I remember one classic of the principle almost forfulled:

RAC Rally 1984: Vatanen Winning with the Peugeot 205 Turbo16.
He rolled during the last night but still won and one innocent brit, reading the stories asked the Peugeot dealer if it was tryue that you could roll the then rather new 205 and still drive....

Oops, that last night oif RAC wasn't a Sunday night!
Oh well, you get the point I suppose....


Henri Greuter

[pRy]

Dominate on Sunday, be googled on Monday perhaps...

2002 Google Top Brand

1. ferrari


2001 Google Top Brand

8. ferrari

[KenC]

Originally posted by dpardyrx7
Ferrari is the main benefactor of the win on Sunday sell on Monday mantra. Ever since Michael came to the team and they started winning big time there has been such a demand for both cars (2 year wait) and merchandise that Ferrari has become very profitable and is the only bright spot in the FIAT empire currently. I bought my Ferrari about two years ago and while I always wanted one it was during the 2001 USGP that i decided the timing was right ...

For those of you who think MS is over paid or are just MS bashers in general, when was the last time you saw a Ferrari ad? Well you haven't because Ferrari stopped advertising about 10 years ago. The WDC's and Contructor titles are what sells cars. Pure economics and business.

Where's the "pure economics and business"? Have you even considered that in Schumi's time at Ferrari, he's had a greater after-tax profit than his employer? How's that for ROI?

[taran]

Originally posted by dpardyrx7
For those of you who think MS is over paid or are just MS bashers in general, when was the last time you saw a Ferrari ad? Well you haven't because Ferrari stopped advertising about 10 years ago. The WDC's and Contructor titles are what sells cars. Pure economics and business.

Congratulations on having a Ferrari but you might consider driving it on the road instead of your garage because the fumes are obviously getting to you :

Ferrari have NEVER advertised their cars. That's why they go racing, its their only publicity besides what is generated by second hand media!
Parts suppliers have on occasion used Ferrari's in ad's (Pirelli, Goodyear, Longines etc.) but only after getting permission. Ferrari never stopped...or ever started.
Ferrari sales were around 2,000 units in the late 80's but de Montezumola engineered a revival of the road car division by introducing much better cars. The 456GT and 355 really managed to increase sales so that production has been put at around 4,000 cars a year to maintain their exclusivity and desirability if you will. This happened before Schumacher came onboard. The arrival of M$ and their on track success has certainly lead to an increase in sales, especially in Germany but as has been said, the dot.com boom certainly helped as well.

Bottom line...racing success helps to create sporty and successful image but the product needs to reflect it as well. Subaru Impreza's sell like hotcakes, Legacy's not all.

[FrankB]

I am sure that on track exposure can't possibly harm showroom sales, but I should think it is near impossible to identify any purchase that was made solely on the strength of Formula One success. Buying cars such as Ferraris is not done on an impulse. If you are in the market for a car of that kind of quality and cost, obviously winning on Sunday is going to be a factor, but not the only one. Porsche still seem able to sell cars without F1 exposure don't they...?

How does the old saying go...? "Half of any advertising and marketing budget is wasted, the difficult part is knowing which half you can cut without losing sales!"

[eoin]

Toyota and Honda are good examples; since their association with BAR, Honda have failed to win a race, and Totota is yet to score even a podium finish yet both mfgrs. continue to sell cars in record numbers. Jaguar is a mystery to me; they seem to have a competitive product, they have a rich history in motorsports, an excellent pedigree, and the marketing might of Ford behind them.

Toyota and Honda are not performace cars but family cars...the fact that they are mention beside Ferrari,BMW and Mercades helps them in the view of the public. When I was younger I was amazed that a Renault could out pass a ferrari!

Also Toyota and Honda just want name recongization. With F1 moving to Russia, Turkey, and China their is huge prospects of raising their profile in these countries!

[Bob Sacremento]

I thought that orginally Ferrari was a racing team that made and sold cars to fund their racing. I presume that this was a long time ago though.

[KenC]

Originally posted by FNG
I was curious if anyone knows how the car manufacturers are doing in sales in relation to F1 perfromance?
I think i heard that Ferrari are selling more road cars than ever, Mercedes and BMW as well. However how do the sales look if they are not performing? Toyota and Honda haven't been setting the track on fire but haven't been embarrasing either.
I can't help but think that the brand image of Jaguar has tanked over the last few years with their brutal on track perfromance. Anyone have any numbers on this??

Thoughts? Rants? Outbursts?

Try running a regression analysis between a mfrs' car sales, (try both unit sales and revenues) and its position in the WCC or try WDC. Try putting in a time lag, because a company like Ferrari have waitlists, so that a even if I wanted to buy a car, I'd have to wait, so that the sale wouldn't be chalked up until years later. Put in economic growth rates for the three major markets, NAmerica, Europe and Japan, and put in any other possible variables that you can think of, and see how well any of this correlates.

My gut feeling is that the only statistically significant results will show the strongest correlation between economic growth and sales, and the relationship between F1 success, and sales, is inconclusive.

[aportinga]

In 1989 Walther Thoma of Marlboro stated that if Senna was fastest on Friday - took the pole on Saturday and won on Sunday that the weekend would be worth $40 million dollars in exposure.

[Ross Stonefeld]

but thats a general retail product, and thats only equivalent advertising, not sales.

[aportinga]

Exactly - which is why I called it exposure and not sales

And in 1988 - 1991 I am sure it was WELL worth the cost.

[dick]

I don't know. I'm a McLaren fan but bought a BMW. Didn't even consider a Mercedes, mainly because they don't offer a manual transmission here in the States. I will say when Senna was driving I always drove Hondas.