45 replies to this topic

[arcsine]

Warr comes across extremely badly in Mansell's autobiography (though that is Mansell's side of the story - has Warr ever given his side?)
Just how bad was the relationship between Warr and Mansell when they were together at Lotus?

[ensign14]

Quote from Grand Prix International, South Africa 1983:

Peter Warr: Mansell has been complaining that he has no engine. Next year, we'll make sure he hasn't got a car...

At a time when reportedly only JPS saved Nigel from being given the push.

[JtP]

I suspect the relationship between Warr and Mansell, however strained, was still an improvement on that of the Lotus mechanics and Mansell. Mansell, possibly the only GP driver ever sacked by his mechanics?

Regardless of the Lotus mechanics and Mansell relationship. It still never reached the Charlie Glotzbach vs his mechanic level. Does anyone know why his mechanic shot him?

[holiday]

Originally posted by JtP
Mansell, possibly the only GP driver ever sacked by his mechanics?

add: Frentzen (Jordan)

[Anorak Man]

Peter's just putting the final touches to his book on his time at Lotus. Eoin sez it'll be out later this year, and it'll be dynamite!

It's probably stuck at the lawyer-proof-reading stage

AM

[Ross Stonefeld]

Someone care to explain how a driver is fired by the mechanics?

[David M. Kane]

I would have thought that Peter Warr and Nige would have gotten on famously
since they are easily two of the biggest @#%%% to ever by around a race car. Kind of like Jane Fonda and that CNN fella from Atlanta...if two people ever deserved each other...

[TODave2]

What was that quote from Peter Warr...?

Something like 'Mansell will never win a GP as long as I've got a hole in my arse' or something.

[JtP]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Someone care to explain how a driver is fired by the mechanics?

By the simple expedient of saying either he goes or we go.

[stavelot]

Gentleman,

where is Peter Warr now and what does he work?

[David M. Kane]

ToDave 2:

I'm starting to like this Peter Warr guy...good comeback. The best bumper
sticker I've ever seen is on a transporter that we see at all the big
Vintage events here in the USA. It reads, "If assholes could fly, this place would be an airport". Apparently, the guy has several rich customers
who are a bit difficult!

[arcsine]

Originally posted by Anorak Man
Peter's just putting the final touches to his book on his time at Lotus. Eoin sez it'll be out later this year, and it'll be dynamite!

Is he just writing a book about his Lotus days or is he writing his autobiography?

[deangelis86]

I'm very much looking forward to reading Peter Warr's book in the hope that it answers some of the flak that has been thrown his way from various sources, not least of which from Mansell.

I have to say that with the evidence I have been presented with, and discounting Mansell, I feel that Warr has a case to answer for being a major asshole himself, and this is why I always view that Mansell comment with a certain degree of 'Pot calling kettle black' irony

Being an ex-Army Officer it seems that Peter Warr had a very strong 'Regimental' manner about him. Has anyone ever heard any driver or team member recalling the wonderful days spent with Warr? Nope, I thought not!

Even the diplomatic Elio de Angelis had this to say about Warr (taken from the 1985 GPI Interview)

"There is nothing in common between their two methods. Chapman was the boss, a charismatic man with a strong personality second only to Enzo Ferrari's. Peter Warr is a very ambitious man and a capable team manager, although perhaps he tries to do too much. "

- In other words, he couldn't hold a candle to Chapman.

I think that Warr proved that he was by far the biggest asshole by trying to get Mansell disqualified from his first win in 1985 at Brands Hatch by suggesting that Mansell had passed Senna under a yellow flag.

As I understand it, Warr took his protest the the race stewards, only to be taken to one side by Hazel Chapman who basically told him to stop being a prat

[Doug Nye]

Peter Warr - generally known within Team Lotus as 'Pew' after his initials - was never all bad. When he was good he was very, very good....but when he was bad he could be horrid.

What I'm saying is don't simply dismiss the bloke out of hand with that now almost universal American expletive (what is it with Americans and back passages???? - a quite extraordinary fixation)...

Pew was Lotus's very youthful sales director for a long period, during which he raced widely in Formula Junior and 23 sports (as in the inaugural JAF GP at Suzuka) before leaving to set up a commercial slot-racing centre at the start of the slot-racing craze in the UK in the mid-'60s. He returned subsequently to Lotus at Colin Chapman's invitation (I believe) and managed Team with variable success thereafter.

At various times he is generally considered to have grown too big for his boots.

I can only speak as I find - or found - and to me as a scribbler Pew was always very forthcoming, helpful and pleasant. Half of his blokes seemed to think he was OK 'most of the time', the other half felt the opposite.

Nobody's perfect....wait to read his book before you might leap to condemn. If it's honest and detailed it should offer much of interest...some to amuse...and more to surprise...

DCN

[David M. Kane]

We're toilet trained too early, we have far too many bathrooms and we are
constantly bombarded by TV ads for fancy toilet paper where we are encouraged to squeeze it so we may appreciate it softness.

[LittleChris]

He was a big fan of Ronnie from what I've read and not too much of a fan of Mansell.

Top bloke !!! And looking forward to the book

[Eric McLoughlin]

He seemed to be a big fan of Senna too - especially after the win at Estoril in 1985. The picture of him greeting Senna's Lotus in the paddock is one of my favourite F1 shots.

He also crops up in the history of the Lotus 7. My favourite story comes from the early 60s when he was demonstrating a Seven to a potential customer. Whilst out on a test drive it started to rain. Warr switched on the wipers only for them to fail after a couple of wipes (after all, it was a Lotus). He hastily switched them off saying to the passenger that "We never use them", hoping the punter hadn't noticed they had actually broken. They then proceeded to drive on, the screen getting more and more obscured until eventually he misdgudged a bend and ran into a bank. The customer still went ahead and bought the car (typical Seven customer).

[JtP]

Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
He seemed to be a big fan of Senna too - especially after the win at Estoril in 1985. The picture of him greeting Senna's Lotus in the paddock is one of my favourite F1 shots.

Warr was possibly still laughing at Mansell's efforts over the finishing line. A lapped Mansell is closely following senna on the run to the flag. Now most reasonably intelligent people would realise that the moment Senna crosses the line he will lift off. Not England's racing hero, who only just avoids Senna's slowing Lotus with a big moment down the grass.

Warr probably took this as full validation of Mansell's dismissal, but maybe someone went out and painted a white line on the track for that lap.

Did Mansell in his book have anything nice to say about anyone bar "the late great Colin Chapman", Peter Windsor or Murray Walker? Oh and himself.

[deangelis86]

Originally posted by David M. Kane
We're toilet trained too early, we have far too many bathrooms and we are
constantly bombarded by TV ads for fancy toilet paper where we are encouraged to squeeze it so we may appreciate it softness.

Ahh yes, that 'tough' kinda softness that ensures your finger doesn't go through....

[deangelis86]

Originally posted by JtP


Warr was possibly still laughing at Mansell's efforts over the finishing line. A lapped Mansell is closely following senna on the run to the flag. Now most reasonably intelligent people would realise that the moment Senna crosses the line he will lift off.

Most reasonably intelligent people who have the benefit of clear visibility not being impared by a 10 foot wall of spray, that is.....

[William Dale Jr]

Originally posted by JtP
Warr was possibly still laughing at Mansell's efforts over the finishing line. A lapped Mansell is closely following senna on the run to the flag. Now most reasonably intelligent people would realise that the moment Senna crosses the line he will lift off. Not England's racing hero, who only just avoids Senna's slowing Lotus with a big moment down the grass.

Didn't Mansell say that he was actually trying to avoid Warr, who was jumping up and down on the track celebrating Senna's win?

[JtP]

Originally posted by William Dale Jr


Didn't Mansell say that he was actually trying to avoid Warr, who was jumping up and down on the track celebrating Senna's win?

I would have thought under the personal circumstances between the two, Mansell would not have bothered to avoid Warr.

Most reasonable intelligent people would not have driven in the 10 ft wall of spray over the line when it could make absolutely no difference to your race result.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by William Dale Jr


Didn't Mansell say that he was actually trying to avoid Warr, who was jumping up and down on the track celebrating Senna's win?

Well, nothing untoward that ever happened to Noige was his own fault was it?

[TODave2]

IIRC Warr was so overexcited at the win that when Senna came into parc ferme he got too close to the car and Senna ran over him!

I've only seen a photo of Warr standing next to the car as Senna comes in, so I've no idea if the story is true or not...

[deangelis86]

Originally posted by JtP


Most reasonable intelligent people would not have driven in the 10 ft wall of spray over the line when it could make absolutely no difference to your race result.

With Stefan Bellof fighting with Mansell for 5th place right to the line, I think even you must agree that the difference between finishing 5th or 6th in F1 makes rather a large difference in financial terms.

One could almost forgive Mansell for making a point to Warr, the man that once bollocked Mansell for easing up in during the 1983 Italian GP to avoid running over spectators on the track, losing 7th place at the flag in the process.

Look, I'm all for a spot of Mansell bashing - but some of the misplaced and innacurate claims on here recently regarding Mansell's whinging and theatrical behaviour have been rather silly.

[Gary Davies]

Originally posted by deangelis86
Look, I'm all for a spot of Mansell bashing - but some of the misplaced and innacurate claims on here recently regarding Mansell's whinging and theatrical behaviour have been rather silly.

Hear, hear!

[David M. Kane]

Since Bernie was Jochen's manager did he ever comment on the switch from
Brabham to Lotus? Secondly, has he ever commented on the accident? Thirdly,
what kind of relationship did Bernie enjoy with Colin?

[Doug Nye]

Re Peter Warr - thought the following assessment might enlighten, from a sometime contemporary in Team Lotus:

Peter Warr worked very well as Chunky's lieutenant, when Chunky did the thinking. He was a good planner and organiser, but bad with people - which was a particular problem if you were one of Team's more insecure drivers. He was incapable of nurturing or encouraging drivers in the way of Ken Tyrrell or Eddie Jordan. He is of Anglo-Iranian parentage, and came to Lotus ex-Army ( National Service with a Short Service commision).

After Chunky's death he seemed to develop fearful delusions of grandeur. He seemed pretty much anti-engineer, and he was naturally abrasive. Mansell, Piquet, de Angelis, and Peter Wright didn't think much of him. Mario did not have much time for him either, although they did not spend much time together.

As I've said here before, Pew was always friendly and helpful to me.

DCN

[David M. Kane]

Doug, thank you for putting a human touch on Peter. This makes him so much
more understandable and easier to appreciate. The air at the top is rare
and people don't cut you much slack. It just shows how fine the line is between good and great.

I look forward to the book.

[deangelis86]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Re Peter Warr - thought the following assessment might enlighten, from a sometime contemporary in Team Lotus:

Peter Warr worked very well as Chunky's lieutenant, when Chunky did the thinking. He was a good planner and organiser, but bad with people - which was a particular problem if you were one of Team's more insecure drivers. He was incapable of nurturing or encouraging drivers in the way of Ken Tyrrell or Eddie Jordan. He is of Anglo-Iranian parentage, and came to Lotus ex-Army ( National Service with a Short Service commision).

After Chunky's death he seemed to develop fearful delusions of grandeur. He seemed pretty much anti-engineer, and he was naturally abrasive. Mansell, Piquet, de Angelis, and Peter Wright didn't think much of him. Mario did not have much time for him either, although they did not spend much time together. DCN

I'd also like to add my thanks for that interesting synopsis of PEW, DCN. A clearer picture is beginning to emerge as to just what kind of a character he was, and my mouth waters with anticipation looking forward to the book release.

As I've said here before, Pew was always friendly and helpful to me. DCN

EVERYBODY loves you though Doug - me included!

[Megatron]

As far as mechinics go, I believe that Deletraz also had at one point a "boycott" on his car until his money showed up.

Peter Warr isn't exactly put in a wonderful light in Bobby Rahal's book either. Rahal, essesentially, blames him for not landing a Wolf drive in 1979. Then again, the 79 Wolf was a dog, Hunt quit, and soon the team went bye bye so I am not sure if landing that Wolf drive would have prolonged Rahal's stay in Europe.

[Doug Nye]

[RDV]

blind PEW was a great source of amusement to most people who worked with him, in the sense of laughing at , rather than with;and I rather endorse DCN`s analysis .

The little plaque attached to his office wall a la Westmoreland give a sterling example of the blimpish regimental attitude to underlings

"When you have them by the balls , their hearts and minds will follow."

[maplestone71]

I'm new to all this (only joined last night) having been fascinated by some of the posts I've come across, being a bit of a Lotus fan.

I noticed the comments here talking about Peter Warr writing a book and notice that this string is from a couple of years ago, but I've never come across such a book. Anyone know if it was ever published?

[WGD706]

Originally posted by deangelis86

Even the diplomatic Elio de Angelis had this to say about Warr (taken from the 1985 GPI Interview)

"There is nothing in common between their two methods. Chapman was the boss, a charismatic man with a strong personality second only to Enzo Ferrari's. Peter Warr is a very ambitious man and a capable team manager, although perhaps he tries to do too much. "

For those who wish to read this interview, http://www.geocities...uk/1985gpi.html

[David M. Kane]

WGD706:

Great story! I found Grard Ducarouge to a very nice man When I talked to him at the USGP one year, I think he was under-rated. I also remember seeing Elio doing the F3 race at Monaco. He was paddocked way up the hill above St. Devote. He seemed so normal and so unaffected. I wish I had introduced myself!

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by maplestone71

I'm new to all this (only joined last night) having been fascinated by some of the posts I've come across, being a bit of a Lotus fan.

Anyone who wishes to gleen an insight into Warr should watch his performance in the [fantastic] video 'If you're not winning, you're not trying' which follows Team Lotus during the 1973 season.

I'll withold any further comment...

[LittleChris]

Yep, to me he comes across as the Phil Neal to Chunkys Graham Taylor

[MCS]

Originally posted by LittleChris
Yep, to me he comes across as the Phil Neal to Chunkys Graham Taylor

Ugh... What a dreadful comparsion. At least Team Lotus won things!!!

[Geoff E]

Originally posted by LittleChris
Yep, to me he comes across as the Phil Neal to Chunkys Graham Taylor

Graham Taylor was better acquainted with Phil Neale who was decorated by Her Majesty last month for services to cricket.

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by LittleChris
Yep, to me he comes across as the Phil Neal to Chunkys Graham Taylor

Is it just me, or is the comparison of Chapman to Graham Taylor not an obvious one?

I always liked the Brian Glanville one liner about another England team selection featuring Phil Neal at right back...... something like "Neal, like the poor, is always with us".

[MCS]

What a shame Brian Glanville never developed a keen interest in motor sport......

[St.Hubbins]

I very much doubt Phil Neal ever played for England under Graham Taylor though.

[maplestone71]

For anyone who's still interested, I managed to track down Peter Warr's son and he told me that work on the book stopped when his father moved to France and found himself with too much time to play golf.

I must confess I would love to see Warr's "account from the inside" of Lotus.

If people are particularly like minded, I am happy to collect comments and pass them on to his son for relaying (his son did say he would have another go at persuading him to take up the writing again following my initial contact)

[Richard Jenkins]

Originally posted by St.Hubbins
I very much doubt Phil Neal ever played for England under Graham Taylor though.

Phil Neal was head coach when Taylor was England manager.

[Mohican]

Originally posted by maplestone71
For anyone who's still interested, I managed to track down Peter Warr's son and he told me that work on the book stopped when his father moved to France and found himself with too much time to play golf.

To close the circle to where this thread started, perhaps Warr should challenge Mansell to a round of golf ?

Let me see: the grass was uneven, the butterflies in the next meadow put me off my putting, it is really unfair...but at least I outdrove him...