42 replies to this topic

[Rob Ryder]

While surfing I found this entry on the Winton website...

"In 1978 The Benalla Auto Club hosted the Rose City 10000 which saw the then Formula One World Champion, the late James Hunt, race at Winton, were he dominated."

Has anyone any more information on this race? What did he drive? Who raced? Results? A web search has revealed nothing

Rob

[david_martin]

The Rose City 10,000 was a F5000 event run by the Benalla Auto Club (Benalla being the Rose City and 10,000 being the prize money in Australian Dollars) and held at Winton between 1976 and either 1980 or 1981. When Hunt ran there in 1978 and won handsomely, he was in an Elfin MR8 IIRC. I am sure one of our resident F5000 specialists can add a lot more to the story than I can ;)

[Ray Bell]

An Elfin MR8 Chevrolet... it's been mentioned before here...

Like in this thread...

http://www.atlasf1.c...=&postid=328766

His biggest opponent should have been John McCormack in the... now here's a turnaround!... McLaren M23. But a stone got into a rear brake caliper on the warm up lap or the first lap and John had to pit. He spent the rest of the race storming through the field, but Hunt was long gone.

The car he drove, from memory, was the Reg Orr-owned car that was raced by Vern Schuppan and later John Bowe.

The Rose City 10,000 was something different in the F5000 scene. There was a big pot of gold put up and the race wasn't initially a part of the Gold Star series. Later I think it became a round... the story of the 1979 race, with its farcical behind the scenes happenings is told in the thread called '10000'...

[eldougo]

... Dan Gurney's BRM was taken for a joyride at the 1961 Ballarat meeting... he also went on to win!
Quote Ray Bell.
______________________

This Ballarat meeting could you please tell us more about it Thanks RAY i personally never heard of it ,but that,s not unusual

[Ray Bell]

This was before the Tasman got underway, before Sandown was built, but when there was a move for the International drivers to come to NZ and Australia for some haymaking while the northern winter was upon them...

The very first Warwick Farm International had seen the BRMs suffer a kind of meltdown of their fuel tanks, so they moved on to the Ballarat meeting (I think it was the last race of the season) where haybales were laid out to make a circuit of the airfield.

Overnight, after practice, somebody got in and fired up Dan'l's mount and drove it off into the darkness. It was found the next morning covered in haybales or something, no damage done, and Dan got his sole BRM victory in it.

[eldougo]

THANKS RAY----------------

[Rob Ryder]

Thanks to David & Ray for the replies, and pointers to related threads on TNF.

Maybe I should forget 'Google search' and just use TNF search in future
Any other information regarding the Hunt entry or the 1978 race would be much appreciated.

Rob

[Ray Bell]

As I recall, it came a bit out of the blue...

The Lanyons were somehow involved, John and Russell Lanyon that is, and Ansett Team Elfin in conjunction with Reg Orr provided the car.

You have to appreciate just how parochial the Winton race was. The circuit was hardly worth the description, other than that it was a lot of fun as a club circuit and rather too tight to let anything powerful to get wound right up. It's in country Victoria, which means about a hundred miles from Melbourne and set in the middle of a sheep paddock.

In fact, the land on which the circuit was built is a Common... intended originally for public pasturage and suchlike.

But the promoters have been somewhat entrepreneurial in their outlook for many years and this is one of the results of that attitude. Just getting the F5000s to run there was a move of some significance, but made more possible by the lack of opportunities at the time to run the cars as touring cars dominated the major circuits.

With about a mile and a quarter of pretty tightly wound bitumen in an old paddock, this was about the least likely setting you'd ever expect to find a World Champion racing... I wonder how James pictured it all?

I'm sure there was another logical link somewhere, but I can't bring it to mind at the moment...

[Milan Fistonic]

Rose City '10,000' - Winton - October 28, 1978

30 laps - 37.5m/60.34km

Grid
1. James Hunt, Elfin MR8, 54.9s
2. John McCormack, McLaren M23, 55.7s
3. Alfredo Costanzo, Lola T400, 56.6s
4. Jon Davison. Lola T332
5. Kevin Bartlett, Brabham BT43
6. Graham McRae, McRae GM3
7. Terry Hook, Lola T332
8. Chas Talbot, Lola T332
9. John Briggs, Matich A51
10. Colin.Trengrove, Lola T332
11. Barry Singleton, Chevron B24
12. Ian Adams, Lola T330, DNP

DNS. Bronwyn Taylor, Matich

Result
1. Hunt, 29m 06.2, Best Lap 57.0s
2. Costanzo, 29m 46.7s, 58.4
3. Bartlett, 29m 47.1s, 58.5s
4. McCormack, 30m 01.9s, 56.9s
5. Talbot, 28laps, 1m 00.0s
6. Davison, 27 laps, 58.8s
7. Adams, 26 laps, 1m 04.1s
8. Trengrove, 24 laps, 1m 03.8s

Fastest Lap McCormack, 56.9s

Source: Ray Bell's report In Racing Car News.

[Ray Bell]

Nothing in the report, that issue's Bits & Pieces (or the previous issue's) or Mainly Melbourne about how it came about, Milan?

As always, I'm miles away from my magazines at the moment...

[Allen Brown]

Milan

Many thanks for posting the result. It's on its way into my site.

Any clues in the report what became of McRae, Hook, Briggs and Singleton?

Allen

[Milan Fistonic]

Allen

McRae didn't start despite him being listed on the grid. His engine blew on Friday and the replacement was no good.

Briggs and Davison collided around lap 20 and the Matich spun and stalled. He couldn't restart the engine.

Singleton spun on lap one and then pitted with body damage before resuming many laps in arrears. He is mentioned as still running at lap 20 so presumably he didn't complete sufficient laps to be classified.

Hook's engine went off song early in the race and he finaaly pulled off the track on lap 10.

Ray

The only reference I can find is one in the September RCN that states there was a rumour Mario Andretti was going to appear at Winton. Max Stahl said he had heard in Europe that it was Hunt who would be racing the Ansett Elfin in Australia.

In the letters column of the December RCN there is a letter from a Robert Harrison rebutting comments in a Melbourne newspaper about Hunt's attitude while in Australia.

One of the points Mr Harrison made was:

Because of the promtional ties James Hunt has with Malboro and General Motors in England, it was assumed by his Manager/brother, Peter Hunt, that James would be involved in some sort of promotion in this country, culminating in a drive for the Holden Dealer Team at Surfers Paradise. Howerver, this was thwarted by reasons I will not go into...

[normbeechey]

There is a photo of James Hunt in the Elfin at Winton at the top of the "1970's Page 2" page on the www.MotorsportArchive.com web site.

Chris.
www.MotorsportArchive.com

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Milan Fistonic
Allen

McRae didn't start despite him being listed on the grid. His engine blew on Friday and the replacement was no good.

Briggs and Davison collided around lap 20 and the Matich spun and stalled. He couldn't restart the engine.

Singleton spun on lap one and then pitted with body damage before resuming many laps in arrears. He is mentioned as still running at lap 20 so presumably he didn't complete sufficient laps to be classified.

Hook's engine went off song early in the race and he finaaly pulled off the track on lap 10.

Ray

The only reference I can find is one in the September RCN that states there was a rumour Mario Andretti was going to appear at Winton. Max Stahl said he had heard in Europe that it was Hunt who would be racing the Ansett Elfin in Australia.

In the letters column of the December RCN there is a letter from a Robert Harrison rebutting comments in a Melbourne newspaper about Hunt's attitude while in Australia.

One of the points Mr Harrison made was:

Because of the promtional ties James Hunt has with Malboro and General Motors in England, it was assumed by his Manager/brother, Peter Hunt, that James would be involved in some sort of promotion in this country, culminating in a drive for the Holden Dealer Team at Surfers Paradise. Howerver, this was thwarted by reasons I will not go into...

Singleton would have had to do 20 laps to be classified... but if he'd lost ten when the leaders were on their 20th he'd be in big trouble.

The report must have been okay, Milan, for you to have fossicked all that information from it... no unanswered questions.

I don't have any recollection of any of the issues raised in that letter, but I may recall more when I look at the magazine. My memory was, as mentioned, that it came right out of the blue. What was the WDC schedule that year that would have allowed Hunt to stay here long enough to fit in Surfers?

Hmmm... 1978, first year of John Sheppard running the team... I doubt that anything really was ever discussed about Hunt driving the Holden. Brock would probably have been pleased to have him there as he'd either blow off the World Champion or be so close he'd win the accolades anyway... Surfers was always pretty much a non-event anyway, lots of teams stayed away,

The only thing I could see happening would be if they expected some money from the promoters to help them along. Not from David Harding... no sir! That would put the mockers on it for sure.

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Milan Fistonic
Allen

McRae didn't start despite him being listed on the grid. His engine blew on Friday and the replacement was no good.

Briggs and Davison collided around lap 20 and the Matich spun and stalled. He couldn't restart the engine.

Singleton spun on lap one and then pitted with body damage before resuming many laps in arrears. He is mentioned as still running at lap 20 so presumably he didn't complete sufficient laps to be classified.

Hook's engine went off song early in the race and he finaaly pulled off the track on lap 10....[/i]

Milan

Thanks

Allen

[Milan Fistonic]

The Winton trip gets a mention in Gerald Donaldson’s book on Hunt.

James raced once more in 1978, making a guest appearance in an F5000 event at Winton in Australia. His entourage on the light-hearted ‘Down Under’ expedition included his faithful McLaren mechanic Ray ‘Kojak’ Grant, his friend John ‘The Kid’ Richardson and ‘Norman’ – the name now given to his brother Peter after he was mistakenly identified as Norman Hunt by a British newspaper.

James reported that the stewardesses on their Malaysian Airlines flight were of a standard unequalled by any other airline and he fell in love every time the crew changed. The bar service was equally bountiful and on arrival in Melbourne they ‘fell off the plane’.

They hadn’t expected a welcoming committee and James was rather disconcerted to be greeted in the airport by a host of dignitaries and a large press contingent. The arrival of the famous racing driver was televised and a TV journalist conducted a live interview which Richardson thought James carried off with great aplomb, since ‘he was absolutely pissed to the eyeballs’.

When the lady posed a question James would sit looking composed and thoughtful, as if considering the full gravity and import of her query but in reality trying to keep from falling off his chair. He never faltered or slurred his words and the Australians were impressed with his articulate and knowledgeable answers.

James, studiously avoiding any further liquid refreshment in the days before the race, then impressed the crowd of 15,000 at the Winton circuit north of Melbourne with a thoroughly professional display of driving in easily winning the 30 lap event.

‘The race was wonderfully short’, he said, ‘and it was gratifying to get a win at the end of a disastrous season.’

[Milan Fistonic]

A bit more info on Hunt’s participation at Winton from Chequered Flag.

After many months of negotiations, final agreement has been reached between Hunt and the directors of Kenlaw Promotions, who have been working on behalf of the race promoters, the Benalla Auto Club…

...They will remain for approximately two weeks during which time Hunt will be involved in product endorsement and promotion as well as being a race competitor.

When confirming final details by phone from his home in Spain, James remarked: “I believe the girls are friendly, the beer’s great and the Australian race drivers are extremely competitive, what more could I ask?

In a later interview it was revealed that Hunt was paid $35,000 to appear. The car he drove was the one that had been crashed by Vern Schuppan at Sandown on September 10. Hunt had two previous F5000 races in America in 1974 when he drove an Eagle.
The Winton meeting was a financial disaster for the Benalla Auto Club.


The Chequered Flag race report also mentions Peter Edwards in a car similar to Chas Talbot's (Lola T332?) as being a entrant but then makes no further reference to him. Their practice times also vary from those in Ray's report.

Hunt, 55.0s
McCormack, 56.0s
Costanzo, 56.1s
Davison, 56.9s
Bartlett, 56.9s
McRae, time not given
Hook, 58.1s
Talbot, 59.5s
Briggs, 60.3s
Trengrove, 62.5s
Singleton, no time given
Adams, no time given

THe 1978 event was the third Rose City 10,00 to be held. Costanzo won the first and McCormack the second.

[Amaroo]

Obviously this was in the days before Mick Ronke had anything to do with Winton

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Amaroo
Obviously this was in the days before Mick Ronke had anything to do with Winton

I'm wondering why you write this?

Does Mick's reputation preclude the prospect of a loss? Don't you think he's old enough?

Well, whatever, Mick was in charge at the time, he'd been running the show for a while by then. Hoot Gibson was taking more of a back seat, not that he was actually in charge at any time, but he was well respected and his views counted for a lot.

Milan...

Peter Edwards did have a 330 or 332, it was a kind of bleached orange colour. If I haven't mentioned him I'd say he wasn't there. And my practice times would have been from the official timesheets.

[Rob Ryder]

Thanks for all of this background info gentlemen

I was wondering why Hunt would appear in such a a low profile (?) race in Australia but from your information it met all three of James' racing criteria.. Alcohol, women and money

Rob

[Ray Bell]

Money would be the principal one... any alcohol would be simply the by-product of the partying that was associated with such an event, and women, well women being women, they'd be there anyway.

But as for low profile, I don't think you could call this event low profile.

Right from the outset it was a kind of stand-out event. It attracted the top F5000 drivers en masse and paid them good prizemoney. It had a stature all of its own, built on the Rose City Festival in Benalla that weekend I should add, with displays and parades associating the racing with the festival.

That it was only thirty laps of a tinpot circuit is almost beside the point...

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Milan Fistonic
The car he drove was the one that had been crashed by Vern Schuppan at Sandown on September 10.

Really! According to John Blandon's Elfin book (p148), Hunt drove the Reg Orr car (MR8 8783 - see p143 for its number). Schuppan's own car was 8772. Does this mean Schuppan had driven the Orr car at Sandown? The Blandon book does refer to a car needing a new tub but it's not totally clear whether that's the Orr car or Schuppan's own car.

Originally posted by Milan Fistonic
The Chequered Flag race report also mentions Peter Edwards in a car similar to Chas Talbot's (Lola T332?) as being a entrant but then makes no further reference to him.

He had the ex-Johnny Walker T332 that had begun life as T330 HU23 before its new T332 tub. He had placed it third at Sandown.

Originally posted by Milan Fistonic
Their practice times also vary from those in Ray's report.

Hunt, 55.0s
McCormack, 56.0s
Costanzo, 56.1s
Davison, 56.9s
Bartlett, 56.9s
McRae, time not given
Hook, 58.1s
Talbot, 59.5s
Briggs, 60.3s
Trengrove, 62.5s
Singleton, no time given
Adams, no time given

Hmm. Ray - which should I trust?

My Rose City '10,000' results are now up. I've been able to identify all the cars except John Briggs' Matich A50 which may have been A50/002 but I've never been sure.

Allen

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Really! According to John Blandon's Elfin book (p148), Hunt drove the Reg Orr car (MR8 8783 - see p143 for its number). Schuppan's own car was 8772. Does this mean Schuppan had driven the Orr car at Sandown? The Blandon book does refer to a car needing a new tub but it's not totally clear whether that's the Orr car or Schuppan's own car.

Yes - silly me!! Schuppan's 8772 was in Can-Am form in the US at this time. Just six days before Sandown, it was racing at Trois Rivieres. So I misread Blandon and Schuppan did indeed drive 8783 at Sandown.

Allen

[Allen Brown]

I've corrected my 1978 Australian GP results and added a "-2" to the car Hunt drove at Winton to denote the new tub mentioned in Blanden.

Allen

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Allen Brown
.....Hmm. Ray - which should I trust?

How can I say at this distance?

Did I, for instance, mention the progress of qualifying times in practice? This might give a clue...

When it comes to 'trust' and the names Racing Car News and Chequered Flag are involved, particularly in the time prior to the Fogarty infestation at the former, I would say you have to regard RCN as more likely to be correct.

Like I said, I would have taken those times from the official timekeepers' sheets. I'm surprised more of them weren't spelled out. Then again, maybe we didn't publish a grid and Milan has already taken the times from the text of the report.

Like I've said, it's a shame you ask these questions when I'm so far removed from my magazines. Though I think I did a deal yesterday that will give me the opportunity to keep a set here... that's well in the future.

As for the Briggs car, I might give John a ring and ask for you if you wish. He's here in Brisbane, he might remember. I would have thought his was the ex-John Walker car (off the cuff... both in South Australia) if that helps, though there was a few years between ownerships, wasn't there?

It always looked a bit rough to me, as did the car Lella Lombardi drove... how does that fit in?

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
...As for the Briggs car, I might give John a ring and ask for you if you wish. He's here in Brisbane, he might remember. I would have thought his was the ex-John Walker car (off the cuff... both in South Australia) if that helps, though there was a few years between ownerships, wasn't there?

It always looked a bit rough to me, as did the car Lella Lombardi drove... how does that fit in?

Ray

It was probably the Frank Matich - Barry Lewis - Peter Roach - Dave Powell A50/A51 [002] but I'm not sure. The crash at Winton may have been fatal for the car. According to Aaron Lewis, this car "badly crashed a few years later by Briggs [and] tub thrown away. Rear end used to build sports sedan by K & A racing. Remaining parts owned by Gavin Sala. A true basket case."

The Walker car was A50/004, then with Bronwyn Taylor; and Lombardi drove Kevin Loy's A51/005. My Matich histories are here.

If Briggs could tell you where he got it and what happened to it later (maybe confirming Aaron's story), that would be a big Matich mystery settled.

Thanks

Allen

[Ray Bell]

I'll do that then, Allen, but I note too that you have misspelled Mel McEwin's name... I know you'll want to correct that.

I'm surprised, too, at how early you show Goss as a Matich owner... I'll have to check that out for you too. You do have a question mark... I'm sure Goss' first Matich ownership was the complete car he bought from Frank when he retired.

[Milan Fistonic]

Rose City 10,000 – Winton – November 7 1976

30 laps – 61 km

Grid

Bruce Allison, Lola T332, 57.3 (or 57.6)
John McCormack, McLaren M23A, 57.8, DNS
John Leffler, Lola T400, 57.9
Alfredo Costanzo, Lola T332, 58.4
Max Stewart, Lola T400, 58.7
Garrie Cooper, Elfin MR8C, 58.9
Jon Davison. Matich A51, 59.7
Terry Hook, Lola T332, 61.5
Chris Milton, McLaren M22, 61.8
John Edmonds, Elfin MR5B, 62.3, DNS
Dave Powell, Matich A50, 62.6
Kevin Bartlett, Lola T400, 62.6, DNS
Gil Cameron, McLaren M10B, 64.1,
Stephen Fraser, Cicada Chev, 65.5
Ken Shirvington, Lola T400, DNA (preparing for Macau)
John Goss, Matich A53, DNA (racing at Surfers)

McCormack – dropped valve in warm-up
Edmonds – splashed brake fluid in his eyes – offered car to McCormack but it was overheating so DNS
Bartlett – collided with Cameron in practice

Result

1. Costanzo, 29m 44.0s, best lap 58.2s
2. Allison, 29m 44.3s, 57.7s
3. Leffler, 29m 46.3s, 57.8s
4. Stewart, 30 laps
5. Davison, 29 laps
6. Hook, 29 laps
7. Cooper, 29 laps
8. Powell, 29 laps
9. Milton, 29 laps
10. Cameron, 27 laps

Fastest Lap – Allison, 57.7s (new outright record)

Fraser spun and retired on lap 6






Rose City 10, 000 – Winton – ? 1977

30 laps

Grid

1.John McCormack, McLaren M23, 55.5s
2. Alfredo Costanzo, Lola T332, 55.6s
3. Jon Davison, Lola T332
4. Kevin Bartlett, Lola T400
5. John Leffler, Lola T400
6. Garrie Cooper, Elfin MR8
7. Terry Hook, Lola T332
8. Chris Milton, Lola T332
9. John Edmonds, Elfin MR5B
10. Chas Talbot, Begg FM5 (?)
11. Peter Edwards, Lola T332
12. Allan Newton, McLaren M22

Johnny Walker, Lola – blew motor on Friday – DNP, DNS


Result

1. McCormack, 28m 30.6s, best lap 56.0s
2. Davison, 28m 55.5s, 56.4s
3. Bartlett, 29m 00.1s, 57.3s
4. Costanzo
5. Hook
6. Leffler

Fastest Lap – McCormack, 56.0s (new outright record)

DNF - Cooper – broken CV joint

[Ray Bell]

Well, if we're expanding into the other years... here's 1979...

(as previously mentioned)

http://www.atlasf1.c...=&postid=394375

[Milan Fistonic]

Originally posted by Allen Brown

I've been able to identify all the cars except John Briggs' Matich A50 which may have been A50/002 but I've never been sure.

Allen

In his RCN report of round 1 of the 1978 Rothmans Series at Sandown, Ray refers to the Briggs car as "his ex-Dave Powell Matich A50." Briggs crashed during practice.

Ray also refers to John Goss running a Ford-engined Matich A55 until a valve seat failed "forcing Goss to practise the Matich A53-Repco, which he's brought along as a spare."

"Goss then ra foul of the scrutineers, who noticed that the A55 didn't have a log-book, and he was almost ruled ineligible for the race for doing so. But reason prevailed, and although the Repco-engined car could manage only a 1:14.0 in its lone session, Goss gridded up on race day on the sixth row, taking the time he set with the Ford![1:04.6]"

[Ray Bell]

And today, John Briggs confirms the car was the ex-Powell car.

"Chassis No A50-001," he says. I think that gets you into the guessing game again, doesn't it, Allen?

Not only that, he said that the chassis was 'buckled' in a crash at Mt Tarrengower Hillclimb and then sold to K & A. He understands that K & A onsold it 'for next to nothing' to someone who built it up again.

Presumably after they got all the bits they wanted from it...

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I'll do that then, Allen, but I note too that you have misspelled Mel McEwin's name... I know you'll want to correct that.

I will! I've fixed it and it will go up (with other Matich corrections I suspect) next weekend.

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I'm surprised, too, at how early you show Goss as a Matich owner... I'll have to check that out for you too. You do have a question mark... I'm sure Goss' first Matich ownership was the complete car he bought from Frank when he retired.

I agree that was when he bought 007 (after the 1974 Tasman series) but I don't know when he first raced it as my Aussie Gold Star records are thin. Oran Park 4 Aug 1974? He certainly had it by the time of the 1974 Aus GP at Oran Park on 17 Nov 1974.

How he came by 005 is less clear. The Aus GP book, in its sidebar on this very car (pp402-404) says it was the Loy/Lombardi car (i.e. late 1974/early 1975), but also says Goss acquired "a partly completed A51 that was tagged chassis 005" when he acquired the Matich equipe. One of these statements must be wrong as Goss acquired Frank's stuff well before Loy and Lombardi raced 005. I suspect it is the latter statement that is wrong as the AGP book also says (on p390) that Goss "had expanded his stable of Matich F5000s by purchasing the A51 from Ian Douglass for use as a 'guest driver' car and as a source of spares". This is in the report on the 1975 AGP so it must have happened before August 1975.

All this confusion and I'm only using one book as a source!

Allen

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Milan Fistonic
In his RCN report of round 1 of the 1978 Rothmans Series at Sandown, Ray refers to the Briggs car as "his ex-Dave Powell Matich A50." Briggs crashed during practice.

Thanks. Good - that at least links the Barry Lewis - Peter Roach - Dave Powell - John Briggs ownerships together.

Originally posted by Milan Fistonic
Ray also refers to John Goss running a Ford-engined Matich A55 until a valve seat failed "forcing Goss to practise the Matich A53-Repco, which he's brought along as a spare."

So that will be 007 (born an A53) being the A55-Ford and 005 (born a A51) in the role of A53-Repco. Nothing simple about the Matich stuff!

Allen

[Ray Bell]

I got the impression, Allen, that your site identified Goss as owning a Matich prior to his purchase of 'the Matich equipe'... or have I misread something?

Does the John Briggs story now fit?

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
And today, John Briggs confirms the car was the ex-Powell car.

"Chassis No A50-001," he says. I think that gets you into the guessing game again, doesn't it, Allen?

Not only that, he said that the chassis was 'buckled' in a crash at Mt Tarrengower Hillclimb and then sold to K & A. He understands that K & A onsold it 'for next to nothing' to someone who built it up again.

Presumably after they got all the bits they wanted from it...

Thanks Ray

I've also seen the Powell car referred to as A50-001 which returns me to the (very off-thread) question of whether 001 and 002 were effectively the same car. I.e. the prototype was completed November 1971, first raced at Australian GP 21 Nov 1971 (and won!) and then travelled to New Zealand and then back to Oz for the 1972 Tasman series. At some point - I think on the return to Oz in Feb, the car was said to be "new". I think it may have acquired tub 002 at this point but may have continued with the same chassis plate. I heard a story via Aaron Lewis from an old mechanic that the 001 tub remained with Frank for many years.

The other story, as per Vercoe, is that the 001 tub was actually used to rebuild Frank's McLaren M10B and that the 002 was the first to be called a "Matich".

Another story is that the "new" thing was just to get a bit of press and make the sponsors happy.

Which is a long way of saying "I don't know".

Allen

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I got the impression, Allen, that your site identified Goss as owning a Matich prior to his purchase of 'the Matich equipe'... or have I misread something?

That's certainly not my intention so you may have misread but more likely I've miswritten.

I've just read the page again and I can only see references to Goss having 005 and 007 and in both cases having them after Frank retired. But the page is very messy as I knew a lot less when I wrote it than I do now. I think I'll attempt a thorough edit this week.

Allen

[Ray Bell]

The only time the press were brought into play with a new tub was when Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation were on the scene... their first tub (no, don't ask when it was...) was well publicised as it had some nice features in the rivetting etc.

[Allen Brown]

Milan - thanks for posting 1976 and 1977.

I have transferred this to my database but have a few car queries that I hope you and Ray can help with.

1976

Max Stewart - Lola T400. Stewart bought one T400 new (HU2) but bought a second T400 (HU3) in time for the 1976 Rothmans series where it was driven by Paul Bernasconi. It was HU3 that Stewart was killed in at Calder in 1977 so he must have moved over to HU3 at some point. But I don't know whether he was in HU3 or HU2 at Winton.

Gil Cameron - McLaren M10B. I don't know which M10B Cameron had. The ex-Matich 400-10 was in New Zealand by this time; the ex-Allen/Bartlett 400-02 doesn't appear to have come back from the US in 1972 and the ex-Allen/Hamilton/Brown car had been dismantled for Bryan Thomson 's VW Sports Sedan.

Stephen Fraser - Cicada. Help!! The 1976 Surfers Paradise program said of Fraser's car "originally an Elfin MR5 with major component modifications". The Aussie GP book, talking about the Sept 1976 event, calls Fraser's car a Cicada-Ford built by his father. Later, Barry Lake's review of the 1977 Rothmans series in Cars & Drivers called it the "Cicada 004 Chev". At Winton it seems to be a Cicada-Chev so the Ford had been lost in the preceding six weeks. Could this be the ex-Walker Elfin MR5 that Stan Keen had put a Ford into?

1977

Terry Hook - Lola T332. Hook bought the ex-Lawrence T322 (HU28) somewhere between the 1977 and 1978 Rothmans series but I'm not sure whether he was driving HU28 or his older Polley-built T332 ('071-084') at Winton.

On the 1977 event, can anyone fill in the remaining finishers?

Allen

[Ray Bell]

I'm pretty sure Gil Cameron's was the Bartlett car...

The Cicada is unlikely to have been an Elfin, but may have contained Elfin parts, and in particular Stan Keen Elfin parts, I guess. The adaptor plate, for instance...

It's all too long ago for me to go on memory, Allen, at least in this detail. Like I said, you keep asking when I'm away from my resources.

[Ray Bell]

Ken Shirvington is mentioned as having a Lola T400 in the entry list for the 1976 Winton Rose City 10,000...

Where did this car come from?

It's obviously not a Stewart or Bartlett car, way too early to be Leffler's... and it was red anyway.

[Allen Brown]

Ray

This was HU4. Ken tells me he still has it, albeit two major accidents later.

See http://www.oldracing...0/lola/t400.htm

Allen

[Ray Bell]

Thanks Allen... there's a lot in there I'd either never known or have now forgotten!

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Thanks Allen... there's a lot in there I'd either never known or have now forgotten!

Ray as we grow older, our memories do fade unfortunatly......................... Regards, Peter N...............................