31 replies to this topic

[Megatron]

I didn't think this was F1 enough for the F1 board because of it didn't involve cars, sponsors, engines, etc, but in college (hate to keep bringing that up, sorry), I had a langustic teacher who had lived in a billion different places and would always give us "tidbits" on how language was used. He gave us the joke of the American soilder and the Aussie soilder standing next to each other with the American sayings "You came here to die". The Aussie responded "No sir, I came here "yesterdie".

Anyway, he would always use German as an example about speech and would always say "You can tell because they prounce letters like "T" and others much differently". This struck me as odd because Michael and Ralf seem to be VERY understandable, almost to a point where english is their first language. Michael inparticular speaks very well.

Serious question: Have the Schumacher's had any kind of speech classes to help them with this? It isn't unheard of, Christian Fittipaldi learned English from a very young age and to try and help NASCAR fans "adjust" to the foreign driver (if you call Fitti that, he seems pretty much like he staying in the US for good), the announcers at the Daytona 500 qualifying made the statement that "he speaks English better than the rest of us!".

Also, NASCAR champion Ned Jarrett tried to eliminate some of his "southren" accent and went to speech class. It worked, you'd think Ned was from Greenech CT instead of the Hickory N.C. He felt so strongly about it, he sent Dale Jarrett there as well (though Dale's "southren" accent still jumps out when he is mad and some brave announcer sticks a microphone in his face).

Seriously, they speak english so well, have they had any sort of schooling to do this? My langustic teacher would say that the Schumacher's way of speaking clearly is "impossible" because he REALLY harped on the German style English. If you listen to other Germans, they do have the accent. I had a brief relationship with someone from Germany once, and she didn't speak 1/3 of the way like the Schuey's?

Somewhat odd, but a serious question. After hearing so much about German accents, I felt like sending a Michael race interview to his office.

[El Magnificante]

I'd bet he has, although I've never heard that he has. It would make sense as many of his engineers are English and communication is vital. I remember him when he first entered F1 and his English was nowhere near as good. It's surprising though how quickly people pick up correct pronunciation.

We have a Swedish bloke working for us. In the few months he's been here, his Eglish has improved remarkably. Sadly, he's spent alot of time with an colleague from Gloucester. Not a good accent to pick up!

[andviv]

I think it is more a matter of time... after you hang out with people you start having the same accent... so I think that pretty soon Alonso and Kimmi will speak some understandable english.

[Megatron]

You guys have good points. I remember when I first started watching the Corvettes in ALMS, I saw the US flag next to Andy Pilgram's name, heard him being interviewed, and figured he was from California. Of course, I found out that he was British born and was only a naturlized American citizen.

I didn't even try the Schumacher example, which I really wanted too, but my professor, who figured he knew everything because he had lived seeming in every country for at least 10 years, was a bit hard headed. I did bring the Pilgram example up to him and he didn't have an answer and quickly changed the subject. Perhaps if you are around a certain type of people, you do inherit their speech a bit. I mean, Andy really does sound American.

Aside from Germany, he also attacked the Finnish for being "very slow thinking and talking". That might be true for some, but JJ Letho always seems to me that he has been drinking caffiene because he speaks so quickly, but also so well thought out. Then again, Letho has been spending time in the US racing sports cars, so perhaps he has picked up the pace a bit. Did he speak slow while he was in F1?

Being an F1 fan, I wasn't particurally impressed my professors attacks on German or Finnish ways of translating into English, for the record.

[Caractacus]

Michael's English is rather good , though he does rely on several stock phrases and makes (I would estimate) one grammatical error every third or fourth sentence. These are usually preposition errors, though, and so they really don't affect understanding much.

His most common problem is using the phrase "do a mistake" rather than "make a mistake", (though sometimes heard in slang).

I wish I could speak German one half as well as he manages English - I did a year of it when I was about 14 and the grammar nearly killed me. I have to learn languages by ear, not by the book, and I am much happier with Finnish than German. (Hi, Finns! )

The most improved driver that I have noticed has been Olivier Panis - up from barely understandable to really rather good. I can read French moderately well, but ask me to speak it and I think my talents might well just qualify me as Tourist, second class.

Heap Big Praise to F1 drivers who have to master languages and diplomacy as well as drive!

[zengiman]

It's very difficult for Germans to learn other languages. We have a prince, a german by birth who became the husband of our former queen and he tried for over 50 years to speak our language.
He failed miserably...

Schumachers english is very good compared to that.
If only he wouldn't say "obviously" every three words..

Bad thing is that it's rubbed of on Barrichello. He's also saying it all the time. And I think I even heard Coulthard use the "o" word. But maybe that was just a bad dream.

[zengiman]

Oops, forgot to say I'm from Holland, German prince can't speak decent dutch..

[Caractacus]

Hi Megatron!

Sounds like you have a rather odd lecturer if I understood your post correctly. I mean, if he had no answer to a British guy sounding American after living there. I could do it in 6 months. You just have to have a fairly good ear for how the vowel sounds are produced and change your slang and you're 90% of the way there.

The most important thing is that the people you hang around with sound much the same - it's hard to get a consistent English accent if you're foreign and your mates are an Italian, a Spaniard a Japanese guy and a Russian.

[raceday]

I suppose it depends on where you come from. If your mother tongue is a very big language and you live in a place where you normally only hear that language then I’d say your more easily impressed by Schumachers English. If you live in a fairly small country with rather few people speaking the language outside your country then I’d say you’re probably not particularly impressed by Schumachers English. I’m from Sweden and I’d say pretty much all of my friends probably speak at least as good English as Schumacher does.
It reminds me about an old joke I heard:

If you speak three language’s, then you’re trilingual

If you speak two language’s, then you’re bilingual

If you speak one language, then you’re…


….American

(I suppose you could swap American for French or Italian etc.)

By the way, I really wish he would stop saying honestly every second or third sentence…

Also, I actually think Ralf speaks with a better "flow"

[Megatron]

Remember when Fissi could only say he was "really appy" or something like that?

I do remember when Rubbens started driving for Ferrari, everything was "really really good". Hows the new car Rubbens "Really Really Good". At Indy during the first USGP there, he said the crowd reaction for Ferrari was "really really good". I haven't heard that from him lately though.

[Caractacus]

Yeah, we have to remember that these people have very little free time to improve their English 'seriously'. They have busy schedules and a LOT of different languages being spoken around them for a minimum of eight days a month, let alone if their team is multilingual.

Given that drivers are chose almost solely for their ability to drive and set up a car, I think we should respect their abilities in the linguistic department.

That said, Raceday has a point in that Nordic types and the Dutch seem to have a very good natural ability at English (though given the languages' close relationships, that isn't as surprising as it could be).

Of course, German is not much further removed than Dutch, but I feel that the Dutch have a natural advantage somehow in the intonation, too - if I turn the radio a long way down when it's on a Dutch channel, the rhythm sounds exactly like an Englishman speaking and I could be fooled into thinking it was English - until the next 'gghh' sound anyway!

[Vagabond]

Originally posted by zengiman
Oops, forgot to say I'm from Holland, German prince can't speak decent dutch..

Oh, that explains everything. Germans consider Dutch as a bad and simplified Deutch, so why bother to learn it

[Nikolas Garth]

Originally posted by El Magnificante
We have a Swedish bloke working for us. In the few months he's been here, his Eglish has improved remarkably. Sadly, he's spent alot of time with an colleague from Gloucester. Not a good accent to pick up!

[maxell]

I think Michael speaks better English (as a second language) than anyone else in F1. I even understand him better than DC some of the times.

Michael often uses "honestly", that's true. Kimi is very hard to understand really. He mutters something and I only pick up a word or two. Montoya is also famous for overusing "you know" when he speaks. Here is an acceptance speach that Montoya did last year:

"Whoa. I really want to thank everybody here, just first of all welcome you. I'm really pleased to be here. You know , I've been.. you know , this is just my second year in Formula One this year. It's been, you know , really up and down and everything, but, you know , being here, getting this trophy is amazing. It really shows that, you know , the job I'm doing is right and I'm just going to try to keep doing the same. Just to work on it, and thank everybody here. Thanks"

[Megatron]

I remember when Montoya came over from Europe, he was very shy and spoke very little at first. By the end of the year, he was MUCH better. I remember perhaps his best english of the year came in the worst race, the race where he won the title but EVERYONE lost Greg Moore.

"Greg didn't deserve to die". Those words have been with me ever since.

[Cojayar]

Originally posted by andviv
I think it is more a matter of time... after you hang out with people you start having the same accent... so I think that pretty soon Alonso and Kimmi will speak some understandable english.

Some people are expecting the same (some understandable english) for lots of americans.

Now seriously. Alonso is young and raced many years in Italy. So Italian is his second language and the one that uses with JT, FB and other italians. He will pick up with English as he is living in Oxford and working for a French-English team. But his English has improved a lot during last years.

About KR it's almost impossible to hear him. I suppose that if he speaks louder it's understandable but this did not happen yet.

[andrewf]

Hi folks

This is an interesting topic and one of my pet interests.

I know that, some years ago, the Indy drivers started a Toastmaster's club. (Thats an organisation that teaches public speaking.) They used green, yellow and red flags to indicate speech times rather than the lights which Toastmasters clubs usually use.

If Michael does not go for lessons, I would guess he has an "English Consultant." I have noticed that his way of speaking goes through phases. For example, he used to start sentences with "For sure," rather a lot. "For sure, the car was good." Now that seems to have stopped.

I think it is clear that he a Reubens both picked up the word "stint" recently. They both used it after Spain. Previously, they would have said, "before my first pit stop," rather than "during my first stint." I also remember a time back in 2000 when Michael swore most entertainingly in 2 consecutive post race interview sessions!

I would guess that there is no formal requirement for them to take English lessons but that the Brothers, both being perfectionists, make a concerted effort to speak as properly as they can.

Andrew

[baddog]

Ralfs english, while slightly accented, is quite exceptional for a german, better than his brother I think, and seems to contain far less of the previously mentioned 'stock phrases' that can be such a give away. That said the stock phrases are in fact a feature of so many actual english peoples speech (for instance, montoyas constant 'you know' at the end of sentences is incredibly common in england)

There are a couple of things apart from the occasional grammer errors that give michael away every time. There is a tendency to emphasise the wrong syllable in some phrases (notably the 'hon' in his catchphrase 'to be honest')that sound just wront to the english ear

Shaun

[ZZMS]

I think Rubens speaks even better than Michael now.

[The RedBaron]

Originally posted by ZZMS
I think Rubens speaks even better than Michael now.

He needs to, what with all those excuses he keeps dreaming up, some of those phrases are very technical!

[Nikolas Garth]

Originally posted by Cojayar
About KR it's almost impossible to hear him. I suppose that if he speaks louder it's understandable but this did not happen yet.

Kimi's quite the low talker isn't he?

Am I the only one who imagines he comes into the garage during a practice session and says to his engineers, "I want less downforce ", the engineers look at each other for help, then look back at Kimi and sheepishly say "Sure, sure" and then go give him more downforce?

[Nustang70]

Originally posted by Nikolas Garth
Kimi's quite the low talker isn't he?

Am I the only one who imagines he comes into the garage during a practice session and says to his engineers, "I want less downforce ", the engineers look at each other for help, then look back at Kimi and sheepishly say "Sure, sure" and then go give him more downforce?

lol, to me it's more the way he enunciates, or doesn't, actually. sounds very machine-ish, like the tapping and tinking of a telegraph machine or a typewriter. (this is not in reference to his "Iceman" personality)

[Nustang70]

Originally posted by maxell
I think Michael speaks better English (as a second language) than anyone else in F1. I even understand him better than DC some of the times.

Michael often uses "honestly", that's true. Kimi is very hard to understand really. He mutters something and I only pick up a word or two. Montoya is also famous for overusing "you know" when he speaks. Here is an acceptance speach that Montoya did last year:

"Whoa. I really want to thank everybody here, just first of all welcome you. I'm really pleased to be here. You know , I've been.. you know , this is just my second year in Formula One this year. It's been, you know , really up and down and everything, but, you know , being here, getting this trophy is amazing. It really shows that, you know , the job I'm doing is right and I'm just going to try to keep doing the same. Just to work on it, and thank everybody here. Thanks"

i think that for montoya, saying "you know" is just speech anxiety. People tend to to use "connectors" during speeches to stall for those fractions of time needed to collect their thoughts and continue in the speech. In my job I have to get on the voicemail system and leaves messages to the entire district, including my boss's boss. Afterwards i will listen to the voicemail i left and even though i feel a bit of anxiety, i sound fine. But, i do use "um" alot to connect thoughts, without even realizing it.

so anyway, if saying "you know" is montoya's biggest problem with english, then thats pretty insignificant compared to my deficiencies with any other languages.

[berlinetta]

Years ago, I surfed on one Michael Schumacher's website and read up his bio (sorry I can't remember which one cause there are too many on the Internet...). The webpage provided a piece of information that, a year before he entered F3, Schumi did go to an English linguistic training school for sharpen his media & interviewing skills. It was his private will. Ralf later also went to the same training school during his F3 career.

[Double Apex]

Originally posted by maxell
I think Michael speaks better English (as a second language) than anyone else in F1. I even understand him better than DC some of the times.

I find it a lot easier to understand Jos when he´s speaking English, and I´m Dutch!
But that's because Jos is from Limburg (hinterland ;) ) and he´s got the worst accent.

[Shiftin]

Originally posted by zengiman
It's very difficult for Germans to learn other languages. We have a prince, a german by birth who became the husband of our former queen and he tried for over 50 years to speak our language.
He failed miserably...

Add to this that those ****in' Germans synchronise every ****in' foreign film with their own ****in' language. Watching American ****in' movies with ****in' subtitles since I was a ****in' child made it much easier to speak and understand ****in' English....

;)

[HP]

Originally posted by zengiman
It's very difficult for Germans to learn other languages. We have a prince, a german by birth who became the husband of our former queen and he tried for over 50 years to speak our language.
He failed miserably...

Don't generalize. One guy isn't a country.

[TAB666]

Originally posted by Megatron

Aside from Germany, he also attacked the Finnish for being "very slow thinking and talking". That might be true for some, but JJ Letho always seems to me that he has been drinking caffiene because he speaks so quickly, but also so well thought out. Then again, Letho has been spending time in the US racing sports cars, so perhaps he has picked up the pace a bit. Did he speak slow while he was in F1?

Being an F1 fan, I wasn't particurally impressed my professors attacks on German or Finnish ways of translating into English, for the record.

Give this professor a big whack in the head.

[berlinetta]

Originally posted by Shiftin


Add to this that those ****in' Germans synchronise every ****in' foreign film with their own ****in' language. Watching American ****in' movies with ****in' subtitles since I was a ****in' child made it much easier to speak and understand ****in' English....

;)

LOLOL!!! very nice

[mp4]

Originally posted by zengiman
If only he wouldn't say "obviously" every three words..

Oh, how so true!
The other thing Michael always says is, "to be honest..."
This has rubbed off on most of the drivers and it makes me cringe every time I hear it.
Eddie Irvine started doing it, along with a bunch of others...
In the end, I would never hold it against Michael or Ralf.
As much as I really don't care for them too much, I am truly impressed they've made the effort to learn another language. My ability to speak French is pretty bad, ya know?

Cheers

[dpardyrx7]

I read somewhere that Willi Webber (Schumacher's manager) had them take speach and english lessons. Given that Michael's endorsement income is roughly US $40 million per year on top of the $35-50 million Ferrari is paying him - pretty good investment!!!!!

[Frisco]

Fisi's English has improved dramatically if his Through the Visor column is anything to go by. Having said that I know he gets help cleaning it up from whomever it is he co-writes it with. As a TSN viewer you hear him speak so inseldomly because he isn't Jacques Villeneuve and he hasn't had that many podiums. I remember the very 'appy schtick in the beginning, followed by him crashing out while leading and talking with ITV and babbling forever, followed by his 3rd place at Spa in '01 where he seemed to be able to talk very technically about the car (the reason why he didn't change his tyres, for example) to Brazil '03 where he was very articulate in the post-race press conference. He's made big improvements. Trulli speaks English very well and has a nice think Abruzzese accent to go along with it. Although I think he's a technically better speaker than Fisi he hasn't got the english accent down pat yet, and I understand Fisi better for some reason. Interestingly, I wouldn't say Villeneuve speaks Canadian English per se (although he's very articulate and speaks beautifully). He still has a bit of a french accent in there somewhere (the byproduct, no doubt, of being raised in Europe), and my cousins from Italy are always amazed by the fact that no one they've met in Canada sounds like him.

Francesco