42 replies to this topic

[Newtown]

I don't know if this has been asked before, but who was the first to take Eau Rouge flat out? Who was the first to consistantly take it flat out? And just for good measure, has any driver in the modern era (let's call that '85 till now) admitted to being to afraid to take it flat?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Its easily the most overrated corner in racing. Everyone raves about it yes, but it seems to be based more on the thrill of the corner than its difficulty. Take out the hill and its your garden variety high speed sweep.

As for taking it flat, thats ultimately down to the car. If you cant take it flat, your car probably doesnt have enough grip. If you can take it flat, maybe your car doesnt have a lot of power to get up to speed out of La Source. And besides its one corner, you need your car to be fast the entire lap and being flat through there is often not the fastest setup.

[Slyder]

The old Eau Rouge was more challenging than the new one. The new one is now pretty much a straight. The old one WAS a corner.

[F1Johnny]

I don't know about admitting to being afraid to take it flat out, but I remember a story Senna once told about eau rouge.

He told of how he came around the hairpin saying to himself something to the effect of "keep your foot flat, keep your foot flat" but in the middle of the corner his foot would instinctively lift slightly off the pedal, now matter what or how many times he told himself.

JV was the driver I first remember talking about taking eau rouge flat.

[917k]

Jean Alesi once claimed that virtually no driver ever took it flat.He claimed that even if they were flat through Eau Rouge,they lifted before the corner,then accelerated into the curve.

The new tarmac made it 'easy'' flat,apparently.I still love the look of the thing.

BTW-ask Zanardi,Zonta or JV how easy it was before ;)

[minardimike]

I would rather watch Derek Bell drift through Eau Rouge feathering the throttle in a 917 than some video gamer casually coasting through an S bend on a Sunday afternoon.

Eau Rouge is dead. (Although Zonta’s shunt was quite amazing). But for all intensive purposes, its just another feminized domesticated piece of automotive folklore.

[confucius]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Take out the hill and its your garden variety high speed sweep.

Isn't that sorta like saying "take the bend out of 130R and its your garden variety straight"?

[StickShift]

Eau Rouge is nothing in todays cars. The only corner that still challenges F1 cars at Spa is Pouhon.

[Newtown]

Stickshift, other than R130 and Pouhon there are NO corners that challenge the cars anymore, and R130 has been reprofiled as well for "safety's sake".

[CLX]

Originally posted by Newtown
Stickshift, other than R130 and Pouhon there are NO corners that challenge the cars anymore, and R130 has been reprofiled as well for "safety's sake".

That could be solved if some regulations reducing downforce in 50% were adopted. Get rid of the wings!

[BuonoBruttoCattivo]

Originally posted by minardimike
I would rather watch Derek Bell drift through Eau Rouge feathering the throttle in a 917...

Or Rodriguez and Siffert banging wheels at the start.

[CLX]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Its easily the most overrated corner in racing. Everyone raves about it yes, but it seems to be based more on the thrill of the corner than its difficulty. Take out the hill and its your garden variety high speed sweep.

Taking the hills out of it would be like taking alcohol out of graduations parties, ie, it would be an entirely different thing.

[BorderReiver]

In my opinion its a shame that the great corners of motor racing are constantly buggered up. Eau Rouge was one of the last great challenges but to be honest it's pretty sterile now, they straigtened out the profile, got rid of the gravel and gave the cars the technology to do it with the drivers eyes shut and his foot nailed to the floor.

15 years ago Eau Rouge was magnificent to behold, men balancing cars on the throttle, transferring loads across suspension and skittering away up the hill. Once again modern F1 has nuetered itself in a very sad way. Its always sad when people lose employment because of technology.

"I used to be a racing driver you know, I got made redundant, its all computers now."

Ross's comments amaze me though, has he ever driven through it at 175 mph? I've chucked a 911 down the drop at Paddock Hill Bend at Brands at much lower speed, about 110mph (one of the best UK corners though) and I nerely lost my breakfast, at both ends. I cant imagine the Red Water corner at top whack, must be frightening

[confucius]

Is the lack of challenge in these corners a result of technology? Or simply down to progression and the fact that modern F1 cars simply have more grip than previous years.

hehe, I didn't even realise that Eau Rouge was re-profiled! When did this happen?

How about the first part of the swimming pool complex at Monaco? Or was that never much of a challenge anyway.

[BorderReiver]

Oh nothing drastic, they just gave the cars kerbs to run on, the line became straighter. In the old days it was Armco or even brick wall. That needed balls of steel.

Surely grip improving is a facet of technology?

As for the swimming pool I never really figured out why they put that in. Much more demading with a straight run along the harbour front.

[confucius]

Originally posted by BorderReiver
Surely grip improving is a facet of technology?

Yeah I totally agree, but that's not really unexpected is it. In my opinion it's just natural progression. If it was some sort of electronics that was making Eau Rouge easier then I would agree that that's a bad thing. Both are types of progression/advancement I guess, but there's just something more artificial about electronics.

[Newtsche]

Originally posted by minardimike
But for all intensive purposes, its just another feminized domesticated piece of automotive folklore.

The pedant in me must say that should be "for all intents and purposes" or "for all intensive porpoises".

[powertrain]

Originally posted by Newtown
I don't know if this has been asked before, but who was the first to take Eau Rouge flat out? Who was the first to consistantly take it flat out? And just for good measure, has any driver in the modern era (let's call that '85 till now) admitted to being to afraid to take it flat?

The first one? Who knows... Tazio Nuvolari in 1939? That's the year the corner was first raced on. Drivers admitting to being afraid to take it flat? Alain Prost was asked about Eau Rouge in an interview and said that he didn't dare keep his foot down but that Senna did. I believe Damon Hill is another who said he didn't see the point in going all the way up full throttle.

[Newtown]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Its easily the most overrated corner in racing. Everyone raves about it yes, but it seems to be based more on the thrill of the corner than its difficulty...

Really now?? I'd love to see you sitting in Schumi's Ferrari at the top of the hill coming around La Source knowing you'd be going down a hill at full throttle only to reach the bottom and immediately rocket up a VERY steep hill at 185 mph/300 kph. I don't think you'd be so indifferent about the corner after that. All of us watch these guys do it from the comfort of home and have no idea just how really scary it is to go as fast as they do because they make it look so easy. Yes, tires and downforce make it possible to go through ER flat but it's quite another to get your brain to accept that and actually DO it.

[Fortymark]

Originally posted by Newtown



Really now?? I'd love to see you sitting in Schumi's Ferrari at the top of the hill coming around La Source knowing you'd be going down a hill at full throttle only to reach the bottom and immediately rocket up a VERY steep hill at 185 mph/300 kph. I don't think you'd be so indifferent about the corner after that. All of us watch these guys do it from the comfort of home and have no idea just how really scary it is to go as fast as they do because they make it look so easy. Yes, tires and downforce make it possible to go through ER flat but it's quite another to get your brain to accept that and actually DO it.

It´s what he says I think, it´s more about the thrill than the skill.

Halfway down the straight most of us would have lifted but these guys drives those cars day and night. They do trust the downforce, we don´t. The faster an modern F1 goes the more grip it generates, the opposite what would be natural.

But in the race I don´t think everybody takes it flat. Maybe far from it but in Qualifing..

[maclaren]

Eau Rouge is is too easily flat out nowadays. You don't get wheelspin and lose the lifting rear anymore

I heard stories Rosberg fought flat out through it but cannot prove it myself.

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by BorderReiver
As for the swimming pool I never really figured out why they put that in. Much more demading with a straight run along the harbour front.

Why they put that in? Well, the Monaco administration decided to build a swimming pool there in 1973, so they had change the track.

[BorderReiver]

Good answer scheivlak, you cant move muhammed etc.

[Tomecek]

Eau Rouge is not so popular because of it would be difficult corner, it is not. It is popular because its last section when drivers exiting it is just exciting!

[Eric McLoughlin]

The swimming pool at Monaco was part of a huge redevelopment of the harbour front which was undertaken between the 1972 and 1973 GPs. The pool was only part of the reasoning behind these changes. More important were increased and improved mooring for the luxury yachts and the freeing up of the "old" road section (which used to lead to the Gasworks Hairpin) to be utilised as a proper pit lane.

[zengiman]

Part of Spa where Eau Rouge lies, is open for public rest of the year. That part is a sort of street circuit. You can drive your everyday car there. But you cannot engage the corner itself , they have a backroute for normal traffic. Reason is (as I found out when I drove there a few years ago) that it would be impossible.

It's an unbelievable ****ing steep hill ! In your Ford Fiesta it appears as a straight wall in front of you with a really sharp kink halfway. You watch it on Tv or on the circuit and it look quite flat.
But in the flesh it's something else.
You cannot believe that cars go there so fast. Its awsome.
And then there is the wet.
I've seen it many times and still every time I'm shocked to see how fast they go.

Any man driving through that corner at F1speeds is a hero! In the wet he's a fool.
You should see it for yourself..

[mtl'78]

Originally posted by maclaren
Eau Rouge is is too easily flat out nowadays. You don't get wheelspin and lose the lifting rear anymore

I heard stories Rosberg fought flat out through it but cannot prove it myself.

I have seen the tape, and it's probably the pretties F1 clip I've ever seen. He's driving an early Tag-Williams I think and the shot I remember best is when he reaches the top of the hill as the car is stepping out on him and he just perfectly catches it on the kerbs. You just get the sense that he used every millimeter of road available.

[Spunout]

Keijo "Keke" Rosberg was the first who took eau rouge flat out.

[Eau Red]

Originally posted by minardimike
But for all intensive purposes, its just another feminized domesticated piece of automotive folklore.

In that case, can Eau Rouge come over and clean up for me? This place is a mess. And I wouldn't mind if she would do some cooking too. Please have her call me.

Thanks,
Eau Red

[Aubwi]

I bet some underpowered junior formula driver took it flat first.

[917k]

Originally posted by Newtown
Stickshift, other than R130 and Pouhon there are NO corners that challenge the cars anymore, and R130 has been reprofiled as well for "safety's sake".

Umm,curve del sol,rindt curve,blanchiment,estoril,shell curve,various curves at Suzuka,etc. etc.
What's your definition of ''challenging''?

[X-ray]

The tyre war in the recent year had spoiled that corner, and last year there was no question that almost everyone took it flat in Qualifying.

Either way, it's all about how you setup your car in terms of who is flat who is not. Though that was more relevant before tyres went super sticky.

[Mox]

Originally posted by zengiman
Part of Spa where Eau Rouge lies, is open for public rest of the year. That part is a sort of street circuit. You can drive your everyday car there. But you cannot engage the corner itself , they have a backroute for normal traffic. Reason is (as I found out when I drove there a few years ago) that it would be impossible.

It's an unbelievable ****ing steep hill ! In your Ford Fiesta it appears as a straight wall in front of you with a really sharp kink halfway. You watch it on Tv or on the circuit and it look quite flat.
But in the flesh it's something else.
You cannot believe that cars go there so fast. Its awsome.
And then there is the wet.
I've seen it many times and still every time I'm shocked to see how fast they go.

Impossible is such a strong word.

Until a few years back, Eau Rouge WAS actually accessible while doing your daily commute round the area, and I must agree with you that it is unbelievable. In fact, I'd go so far as to say, that if you haven't been AT Spa, walking up that hill - whether on the track or on the walkways around Eau Rouge - really shouldn't speak up on this subject. TV-pictures do not tell the true story of Eau Rouge.

While Eau Rouge is "only" the second-highest single G-rating turn on todays circuits, it is BY FAR the highest combination G-rating turns out there. A 2.8 lateral-g left "kink" with negative vertical-g, directly - and I DO mean DIRECTLY followed by a 3.7 lateral-g right turn, at the same time as the negative vertical-g turns in to a lot of positive g's in the bottom of the corner.

The g's - both lateral and vertical - slowly wear off as you go up the hill, but are still in effect, when Eau Rouge hit's you with a 2.6 lateral-g BLIND left turn, right as the car hits the top and pulls negative vertical-g's again. Turn in too early and you will bleed speed like mad, maybe hit the inside curb, very likely losing control of the car. Turn in too late, you will miss the exit and have an intimate relationship with a lot of painted tyres.

I will not believe that anybody driving a wingless racecar has ever gone flat out through this bend. I doubt that the likes of Nuvolari was even going flat at the entry, knowing what the compression and lateral g's will do to a car, and in no way could the narrow tyres of those days handle that.

Any man driving through that corner at F1speeds is a hero! In the wet he's a fool.
You should see it for yourself..

That sums it up nicely!

Back when the road was open, schoolkids spent a lot of free time sitting on the wall at the top of Eau Rouge (where Jacques had a couple of smashes) just waiting for the next "fool" to dream he was Rosberg and gunning his Fiesta or - even more interesting - his motorbike, through Eau Rouge.

They would laugh and clap as another driver bit the dust and would have to explain the state of his or her vehicle to the insurance company, having found out, that computer games is not real life.

Sure - modern day F1 cars with sticky tyres and massive downforce are ABLE to go flat through Eau Rouge, and the reward down the straight is enormous (as I'm sure Mika Hakkinen will tell you), but from "being able" and to everybody actually DOING Eau Rouge flat, there's still a long way. Remember - this is 200mph plus !

It IS hard - it IS exciting - and it IS insane. Sadly, it's NOT part of F1.

[BMW FW22]

Eau Rouge overrated ? LOL, did you see the corner in real life? It is huge ! En not overrated, but it should'nt be flat out, but it is uphill wich gives you so much grip it is possible, it is a 200mph chicane, amazing stuff, last week i watched TGP-F1 there, i saw a JPS-Lotus overtake someone IN Eau Rouge, by far the best manouvr i had ever seen ...

[Aubwi]

I wonder how many "diagonal" G's are in that corner. I mean you have lateral G's and positive G's, including "god's G's" or gravity at the same time, so that adds up to lots of diagonal G's. A diagonal acceleration vector. I wouldn't be suprised if it was like 6 or 7.

And the G's get higher every year as the straightline speed gets faster and faster and they still take it flat out.

[ehagar]

I kinda understand what Ross is talking about... as a GPL fanatic I find Eau Rouge one of the easier corners. Without downforce there is no question... you can't take it flat out. Brake before the bottom, transfer some grip to the front , and climb the hill... I find Burneville, Malmedy, and Masta Straight tougher...

Of course in real life I'd be puckering my arse... but in terms of it being a flat out corner it is kinda a modern downforce era issue.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Yeah there's supposed to be a combined G of 6/7 at the base of hill at the moment of compression and transfer from left to right

[flyboy]

I don't see what the fuss is about Eau Rouge... when I was there in 2000 I took a look at it and I am sure that I could take it flat.... (in my rental diesel Renault...)

[Car no.27]

Originally posted by StickShift
Eau Rouge is nothing in todays cars. The only corner that still challenges F1 cars at Spa is Pouhon.

Gotta love Pouhon its a really inspiring corner.....

[NE0]

Eau Rouge, FLAT!!!!!! I thought it was a hill!!!!!


;)

NE0

[Slyder]

Originally posted by Car no.27


Gotta love Pouhon its a really inspiring corner.....

Pouhon? Blah

If that's the case, gimme Blanchimont anytime.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Blanchimont is flat too. Pouhon is the real corner at Spa.

[Mox]

I'm not sure, but I think it was Eddie Irvine who said ...

"Pouhon is easy ...
You come down the hill flat out,
dab the brakes,
flick down a gear,
close your eyes,
turn in,
gun the throttle
... and pray.

And when you're done, you remind yourself of the number of times you still have to do that before the race is over."