120 replies to this topic

[David T.]

I know that some Sports cars of the 60s and the 70s (like the Deep-Sanderson or some Darens) were equipped with 3 litre Martin engines. Who built them? Which were their main characteristics? Thanks in advance for your help!

[David Beard]

Have a look at this thread....

http://www.atlasf1.c...ight=ted martin

[TEJ]

Ted Martin was a British engine tuner in the 1950s Formula Junior era. His firm specialized in preparation of Ford 109E based motors. Martin was a contemporary of firms like Holbay and Cosworth. Martin also designed a SOHC 3 valve cylinder head for Ford four cylinder motors.

By 1960, Martin somehow moved to St. Catherines Ontario in Canada where he was employed by General Motors. During his period in Canada, Martin designed the Martin V8 intended for the coming 3 litre Formula 1. He appeared to follow the same design evolution as Cosworth did with the DFV. First develop the production motors, then design a replacement OHC head, then design a V8 block to accept a pair of the heads.

Eventually Martin returned to the UK and had some engines manufactured.

The Martin V8 would have competed against the 3 litre Repco GM based engine which had similar specs (V8, SOHC etc). As far as I know the engine never competed in a F1 race, I don't know why.

The Canadian Motorsport Hall of Fame has (had?) one on loan for display earlier this year. Unfortunately they don't have an example of the other "Canadian" F1 motor, the Pratt & Whitney PT6A gas turbine (that actually did races) as used in the Lotus 56B and a couple of Indy cars

[Macca]

The Lucas-Martin was a modded Lotus 35 Formula 2 which came third at Mallory in the rain on Boxing Day 1966 driven by Roy Pike, and was then entered for the Race of Champions driven by Piers Courage. It was quite slow in practise and then bent a rocker while the engine was being warmed-up on race morning and non-started. Courage then crashed it while testing at Snetterton, and Lucas seized the excuse to drop it to concentrate on manufacturing F3 Titans; it was said to have been written-off but was offered for sale by J. A. Pearce Motors (ironically) about a year later.

Chris Lawrence was contracted by Frenchman Jean Tastevin to design the prototype of the Monica sportscar (named after Tastevin's wife) and called in Ted Martin to supply engines, but his 3-litre F1 engine had to be reduced to 2.8-litres to meet French road tax breaks which were based on capacity, and was then short of power; in the end only the prototypes had the Lawrence body and the Martin engine.

Lawrence kept marketing the 3-litre Martins with adverts in Autosport, and sold a couple to special saloon racers, and used one in his own Deep Sanderson sports-prototype which ran in the Nurburgring 1000k in 1969. The early prototype V8 engines had been of 2-litre capacity and at least one was used in sportscar racing in the USA.

I still have my original programmes from the 1967 Race of Champions and International Trophy; the two Pearce-Martins were down to be driven at Brands by Tony Lanfranchi and A N Other, and at Silverstone by Robin Darlington (I think - I'm doing this from memory at work) and an American sportscar driver named Earl Jones.

There were quite a few pictures of the original Pearce F1 car in at the 1967 Racing Car Show in Motor Racing, Road & Track, and Motor magazines, but the only photo of the second car running that I have seen was in Doug Nye's article about Ted Martin in Motor Racing in June or July 1967. If it was a different chassis to the prototype at the show, it must have been fittedwith the same body panels. Perhaps Doug can throw some more light on it, or even dig into his photo archives?

Here's a link to a picture of the Monica version of the engine:

http://139.81.140.16...onicaproto4.jpg

Paul Mackness

[BRG]

IIRC there is a famous photo of a Martin V8 engined Ford Escort Mk 1 special saloon racer with a piston heading skywards through a hole in the bonnet - taken at Brands Hatch (?) in the mid '70s. Can anyone find that shot?

[marat]

The story of the Monica with Martin engine is a bit longer that what Paul has posted.
The original project was a sports car fitted with the 2,6-l Triumph TR4 engine that Chris Lawrence
had on the London Racing Car Show in 1967.
But after a further meeting between M. Tastevin and Chris Lawrence, it was decided not to use
the TR4 engine, but to built a more ambitious car with the Martin engine enlarged to 3,5-litres.
The Paris Show car in 1972 had the V8 Martin engine.
In spring 1973, at the Geneva Show, the car was fitted with the Chrysler engine which could
accept an automatical gearbox and was easier to service than the Martin engine.

[KDW]

I seek more information on Martin engines.

If I remember correctly there was firstly a Formula Junior tuned 105E.
Then came a 3 valves per cylinder 1600 pushrod Ford

After that came the 2 litre V8

Then a F1 3 litre V8 that P Courage raced in a Lotus 35

Somewhere down the line the French concern Monica bought all/some of the engines/ design rights.

They used a V8 ?? in their Monica GT road car.

Help !


KDW

[David Beard]

Originally posted by KDW
I seek more information on Martin engines.

If I remember correctly there was firstly a Formula Junior tuned 105E.
Then came a 3 valves per cylinder 1600 pushrod Ford

After that came the 2 litre V8

Then a F1 3 litre V8 that P Courage raced in a Lotus 35

Somewhere down the line the French concern Monica bought all/some of the engines/ design rights.

They used a V8 ?? in their Monica GT road car.

Help !


KDW

I've posted various things about them here, and at 10-10ths, Kevin. My cousin was Ted Martin's apprentice. He loves to talk about these engines, if you fancy a chat. And Ted Martin is still very much around, and still has a V8.

[David Beard]

I’ve posted some of this at TNF before, but anyway…

When Doug Nye went to Ted Martin’s place in Haddenham in the 60s (for “Motor Racing “ magazine) he would have met my cousin Lawrence "Oz" Timms. He was Ted’s apprentice and was turning cranks for the V8 from solid billets.

Apparently Ted Martin was at MG and was involved with the record breaking cars. He moved on to make 3 valve heads for Ford pushrod motors using forked rockers. The V8 was designed from scratch with an aluminium block and what must have been one of the earliest applications of a toothed belt for the camshaft drive. It was single cam per bank with rocker valve actuation, Opus ignition and down draught carbs. There was a 2 litre version which was used by John Burton in a Ginetta. Apparently this baby version was a sod to assemble. The pistons with rods ( fork and tongue arrangement) were fed in from the top of the block BEFORE the liners were fitted in the heated block.

Ted Martin had two test beds at Haddenham…It gets complicated now. Charles Lucas and Roy Thomas from Chequered Flag (Gemini) all got involved and the end result was Titan cars. I can’t remember this at all but Oz tells me there was a Titan “F1” fitted with the 3 litre Martin V8 that did a couple of races (or perhaps a modded Lotus under the Titan banner?) It was raced to a second place at Mallory by Roy Pike and subsequently written off by Piers Courage.

Then there was Chris Lawrence’s Monica (sp?) road car : used the Martin V8, and I think Brian Cutting used it too in an Escort.

With regard to the 3 valve head….
Oz thinks 20 to 30, maybe more, 3 valve heads were made. He descibes them as being based on a special aluminium casting with integral rocker shaft housing and Webber carb manifold. Two exhaust valves, one big inlet. He reckons the worst thing about the design was that the Y shaped rockers (he said they were cast) had only one adjuster at the pushrod end. If the valve clearance on the two valves were not the same, the rocker had to be profile ground to equal them up.

Ted Martin is still around and absolutely absorbed in the manufacture of small scale steam railway engines. He reckons the precision required is much greater than was needed for his racing engines!

A previous Martin engine thread….
http://forums.atlasf...ight=ted martin

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by David Beard
.....what must have been one of the earliest applications of a toothed belt for the camshaft drive. It was single cam per bank with rocker valve actuation.....

Ahh... don't you just love simplicity...

Apparently this baby version was a sod to assemble. The pistons with rods ( fork and tongue arrangement) were fed in from the top of the block BEFORE the liners were fitted in the heated block...

Whoops! Take back what I said!

What gets into designers that they do things like this? Seems to be a British trait too...

[FLB]

Ray, didn't Denny Hulme race a Martin engine early in his career? I seem to remember a quote syaing that he'd been 'fooled' into believing BHP outputs and making the wrong choice?

[Ray Bell]

I don't think so...

His career was pretty well marked out with Brabham before the Martins were built. Unless it was in a sports car?

[cm50]

Wasnt the 105E FJ engine designed to be installed greatly inclined which led to oil starvation problems. I seem to recall seeing a picture somwhere showing it almost horizontal..........or mabe Im thinking of something else

[klemcoll]

Back in 1960 and again in 1962 I ran cars out of Michael Christie's Alexander Engineering in Haddenham: a Turner 950 in '60 and a pair of special Chevy IIs for the "balloon" car series in '62. Ted had a little workshop out back of Alexander's where he had his brake, etc. He was then a really creative, free-thinking guy, albeit on an absolute shoestring. I recall he had a lay-down Ford FJr. motor at one point, though I cannot recall if it ever went into a car. I really felt he was almost like a British version of Smokey Yunick, who had had a hand in building my Chevy II in Florida with Jim Rathmann

About a month ago I had an opportunity to drive by where Alexander's and Ted had been. It's now a bunch of industrial buildings, but I think one of them may still be the original Alexander's workshop. Those were fun days indeed.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by cm50
Wasnt the 105E FJ engine designed to be installed greatly inclined which led to oil starvation problems. I seem to recall seeing a picture somwhere showing it almost horizontal..........or mabe Im thinking of something else

Was that Holbay's?

[KDW]

Good information guys.

The 3 litre F1 engine went into a Lotus 35.

The lay down FJ motor you may be thinking of was the 105E based motor at 72 degrees to the vertical fitted into the Ausper FJ car. It obviously featured down draught Webers.

I have also found an advert from the late 60's that offered a 1920cc Martin TC, presumably Lotus TC based.

Was the 2 litre V8 a race or road engine ?

Kevin Whittle

[David Beard]

Originally posted by KDW
Was the 2 litre V8 a race or road engine ?

Kevin Whittle

A race engine, I understood

[Mike Lawrence]

Only a couple of prototype Monica GTs were fitted with 3.4-litre Martin V8 engines. There was nothing wrong with the engine in testing, but the backer of the project, Jean Tasevin (whose wife's name was...guess) got cold feet. He worried, correctly in my opinion, about possible warrenty claims so the few cars actually sold had Chrysler V8s.

Monica failed partly because of the OPEC Oil Crisis of 1973 and partly because the parent business (rail rolling stock) took a dive. The entire Monica stock was bought by one whose name is familiar to us all, a great man, but not a tall man.

There was the Pearce-Martin Formula One car which went up in flames in the paddock at Silverstone. My information is that the late Jack Pearce received compensation from an insurance company of just over £100,000, about two million pounds at today's rate. The truck also contained the Ferrari GTO engine fitted to the Cooper-Ferrari F1 car which Chris Lawrence drove occasionally in 1966. There was definitely a Ferrari engine in the truck, but whether or not it was a GTO engine is another matter... Jack Pearce never had to work again

[KDW]

Right so the f1 3 litre V8 was enlarged for the Monica, but where did the 2 litre fit in, was it a Tasman size version of a 1.5 Litre F1 engine??

Was the Pearce Martin car the modified Lotus 35 ??

I remember J Pearce used to run a mothwatering series of advts on the back page of Car & Car Conversions. Was it he who advertised Cooper Monaco's new in crate ??

I remember as a young man thinking.................

Kevin Whittle

[GIGLEUX]

In fact, the first four prototypes of the Monica GT were fitted with the V8 Martin engine in its 3.5 liter version. 87x72.2 3423cc with four double choke Weber carbs it gave 240 240 hp at 6000 rpm, with a volumetric ratio of 10,5 to 1.



Courbevoie, CFMF workshop: in the middle Jean Tastevin, on the right Chris Lawrence.



The Martin engine on the test bench.

[Philip Whiteman]

Years ago, Ted was a great friend of my late father (same name as me). Various Ted Martin stories became legend in our household (and I've a feeling I posted one or two here before).

Ted did work at MG's in Abingdon, and was a great admirer of Sid Enever, a brilliant and truly practical engineer – not least the way he speeded an all-too-slow MG pitstop by up-ending a toolbox to quickly find a spanner whilst all others were bumbling around in disarray. (By contrast, Ted had a dim opinion of Pomeroy.)

A couple of things about the V-8: Ted told me that his proudest moment was Rolls-Royce agreeing to buld the engine under contract. Sadly, the agreement was torn up when M Tastevin demanded that R-R guarantee the power output of units they produced: R-R, quite reasonably, said they could do no such thing for an engine they'd not designed and developed themselves.

Ted both claimed that people like his mate Keith Duckworth had nicked his rubber cambelt idea (seen first on Snowmobile transmissions) and that his high-mounted camshaft/rocker arrangement had a lower inertia than OHC arrangements with bucket tappets (he was into the theory of cam design in a big way)

The Monica project earned Ted enough to run a pillar box-red 3.8 Mk II Jag and an E-Type in the late 1960s. He also had an impressive motor boat, moored at one time on the Thames. His house and garden in Thame remain a monument to engineering obsession.

[Rainer Nyberg]

The Martin V8 as installed in the Monica .

[Milan Fistonic]

The 1971 race at Thruxton in which Brian Tarrant was killed in his A40-Chevrolet was won by Brian Cutting driving an Escort powered by a 3-litre Martin engine.

[Stephen W]

Deep Sanderson-Martin 303

This car was entered in the British Sprint Championship back in 1970. It was driven by Len Bridge and Peter Dodds. However I know very little about the car other than the engine was one of the V8 3 litre units.

Back in 1968 there was a piece in Motoring News about the V8 Martin 3 litre engine being used in a Deep Sanderson 2 door 4 seater Sports GT car.
One of these was run in Sports GT races in 1969 but I can't remember offhand who drove it - certainly not either Bridge or Dodds!

[KDW]

Interesting,
Was the Deep Sanderson the fore runner of the Monica or was it entirely a different car ??

K Whittle

[Stephen W]

Deep Sanderson v Monica

Surprisingly I hadn't thought there would have been a link BUT now you mention it there are similarities. The front end of the Monica is less bluff but otherwise there is a strong family resemblance.

[petefenelon]

According to the good Dr Lawrence:

It was an attempt to build a French supercar but the engineering was mainly British. Chris Lawrence's Deep Sanderson concern was responsible for the chassis, while chosen the power unit was a Martin V8, but an unknown engine did nothing to build an "image" and production cars had Chrysler units, like many another high speed GT car"

(A-Z of Sports Cars Since 1945, p 227)

There is an excellent little website on the Monica (with pictures, brochures etc.) here:

http://vea.qc.ca/vea...ues1/monica.htm

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Mike Lawrence

There was the Pearce-Martin Formula One car which went up in flames in the paddock at Silverstone. My information is that the late Jack Pearce received compensation from an insurance company of just over £100,000, about two million pounds at today's rate. The truck also contained the Ferrari GTO engine fitted to the Cooper-Ferrari F1 car which Chris Lawrence drove occasionally in 1966. There was definitely a Ferrari engine in the truck, but whether or not it was a GTO engine is another matter... Jack Pearce never had to work again

cackle.... I often wondered how "mysterious" that fire was. Thanks ;)

[Doug Nye]

...'s funny...the fabled J.A, Pearce insurance pay-out mentioned above. I recall at the time, and for a couple of years afterwards, there was general incredulity expressed since it had become apparent (allegedly) that Mr Pearce's team hardware had NOT in fact been insured... Were we all wrong, because for sure the assumption on the morning after the fire had been that here was the basis of an insurance scam...and then J.A. emerged the injured party, seemingly blameless, and very much the loser...

DCN

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Mike Lawrence
There was the Pearce-Martin Formula One car which went up in flames in the paddock at Silverstone. My information is that the late Jack Pearce received compensation from an insurance company of just over £100,000, about two million pounds at today's rate. The truck also contained the Ferrari GTO engine fitted to the Cooper-Ferrari F1 car which Chris Lawrence drove occasionally in 1966. There was definitely a Ferrari engine in the truck, but whether or not it was a GTO engine is another matter... Jack Pearce never had to work again

Jack never had to work again!?! So what was he doing on that farm near Reading every year? It looked like a working farm to me. I visited John (never 'Jack' by then) a couple of times before he died and - how can I put this - I think you need to check your information.

I wish I'd spotted this quote earlier - it was only Doug's quote of it that brought it to my attention.

Allen

[Macca]

I heard that rumour about the alleged insurance payout while in a certain (now defunct) memorabilia shop at a Sussex racing circuit which was habituated by a fellow TNFer who posted earlier - it seemed plausible at the time, because Pearce had (coincidentally?) had a previous fire in the paddock at Brands in 1966; and why would they have parked so far from the other teams at Silverstone (on the Club Straight)?

J.A.Pearce continued in the dealing of wheels and parts and old racing cars for another couple of years and then suddenly vanished - as though an insurance pay-out had finally arrived.;)

It seems to me, Allan, that it's time to put F5000s aside briefly and dig out your interview notes and picture to throw more light on this.


Paul M

[MCS]

Originally posted by Macca
I heard that rumour about the alleged insurance payout while in a certain (now defunct) memorabilia shop at a Sussex racing circuit

Strangely enough I first read about this drama whilst at Goodwood in the early eighties. I was on my way to the south coast and, with a little time on my hands, stopped off to have a look round (as I often did and still do to this day)

There was nobody about, but one of the huts was open serving hot drinks, which seemed a little odd given how inactive the place was. Not sure if this was the norm, but whatever, I ordered my drink and then spent a little while looking at the pictures on the walls - one of which was a framed article about the Pearce incident...

My impression subsequently was that this was "an insurance scam" but would love to hear Allen's thoughts...

Mark

[Allen Brown]

Paul

John wouldn't talk about that episode - his partner warned me over the phone not to even raise it - so we talked about the Pearce-Martin cars and about his season with the Cooper-Ferrari. His anecdote about the Brands Hatch test session when Chris Lawrence stuffed one into the bank was wonderful.

As I was leaving, his partner - I can't remember her name without my notes - explained why he wouldn't talk about the fire. She said that he couldn't understand why anyone would think that he would pour so much of his time, money and effort into building his own GP cars only to set light to them before they even raced for the first time. It was very painful to him and he didn't want the speculation to be stirred up all over again.

I don't know whether he was insured but I imagine it would be hard to insure racing cars at anything like their development costs. The GTO engine wouldn't have been worth that much in 1967, nor would the Cooper.

BTW, I thought JA Pearce Eng manufactured wheels but it's a long time ago now and my memory is playing up. Was he really just a wheel dealer? I was under the impression that his company went under or was bought out. Any wheel historians here? If you'll all pardon the puns.

There was also speculation that the Cooper-Ferrari wasn't in the wreck but I think this speculation only started in the late 1980s when a T77 and a GTO engine would have been worth a lot and someone wanted to test their chances of a 'barn discovery'. If it wasn't in the fire it would have turned up by now. The Cooper almost certainly and the GTO engine most likely. And they haven't. I have also heard speculation that a Pearce was 'rescued' from the wrecked transporter 'because it wasn't really that badly damaged' and is being rebuilt. I find that one quite laughable!

Allen

[Macca]

Allen,

Sorry, I should have made it clear that "it seemed plausible at the time that I heard the rumour, based on what else I knew then" - in the way that two and two sometimes seem to equal five.

John Pearce's adverts filled the back pages of Autosport and Motor Racing in 1967-68; apart from the 'Magna' Mk 1 and Mk 2 wheels that he sold, he dealt in complete racong-cars, engines, components and bodywork. In early 1968 he offered the ex-Lucas Racing Lotus-35-Martin F1 (c/n 19) that had supposedly been written-off by Piers Courage in a testing shunt at Snetterton in April/May 1967; later he had a complete Martin V8 3L with both carbs and fuel-injection available, which is the only mention I've seen of fuel-injection on a Martin.

It looks as though a lot of complete cars passed through his hands, apart from the Cooper T77 which he fitted with the Ferrari engine from 250GTO 3729GT (apparently fitting the engine from 250SWB 2735GT in its place - see http://wspr-racing.c...ssis/250SWB.htm
and the suspension of the Pearce-Martin that was tested and crashed at Brands by Chris Lawrence looks very Brabham-like.

I remember that the spaceframe of Innes Ireland's Lotus 21 that was burnt-out at the German GP was found to be true (possibly even nicely annealed!) and used to rebuild the car..........so as there were three spaceframe F1 cars in that transporter fire, I wonder what state the steel chassis were in afterwards.


Paul M

[KDW]

As well as the 3 litre lightweight F1 engine Ted Martin built 2 litre versions.
Does any know what they were destined for and who purchased/raced them.

I have heard tell of Ginetta, but was that a G12 or G4 ?? or even G16

Also the 2 litre was used in saloon car racing.

You guys must know !!

Thanks kevin Whittle

[Stephen W]

I have read recently of a Lotus fitted with a two-litre Martin V8 taking to the Hills.

I'll do a bit of back tracking and let you know what I come up with.

[KDW]

Yes Please Steve

Kevin Whittle

[Bill Harding]

Promised myself that I would never join in...merely watch from sidelines! Have given in...Martin 2 litre V8 was fitted to a Piper Sports Racing car (mid engined) by Bobby (Bell & Colville) Bell, went to Brands with him, when he rolled it at the bottom of Paddock

[Stephen W]

Welcome aboard Bill

Glad you couldn't resist

[Stephen W]

Latest results:

1) The Deep Sanderson 303 that ran the 3 Litre Martin engine was in the Sports Libre class.
2) 1969 - lots of Ford engines for sale with MARTIN cranks fitted.
3) Autosport 25/07/69 Comet Deltune Racing Team offered for sale the John Burbidge MARTIN Escort.
4) On the 14th September Bill Harding's mate Bobby Bell set FTD at the Chichester Motor Club's Hillclimb at Ditcham, Nr Harting Sussex. He was driving the Piper GT fitted with a 2 Litre Martin V8.
5) Autosport on 11/06/70 ran an advert which read as follows:

MARTIN V8
Now powering the works DAREN this 3 Litre Formula One bred racing engine is again in Limited
Production for competition use.
MARTIN ENGINES, Thame Road, Haddenham, Bucks

6) In June 1971 there were several ads in Autosport for a 'Martin 2-litre V8 engine. Wgt 210lbs. Power 200+bhp' It was priced at five hundred pounds.

I'll keep digging some more.

[Garrypolled]

I well remember the Brian Cutting Escort as, F English the Bournemouth Ford Distributor, was a sponsor in the early '70s.
I wonder where Brian is now. Anybody in touch with him?
Garry

[Garrypolled]

I'm certain J A Pearce was the manufacturer, as opposed to distributor, of wheels.
Garry

[Stephen W]

In 1967 JA Pearce Engineering Limited which was based in Southall were .....

a) manufacturing MAGNA Wheels

b) Selling all sorts of bolt-on goodies

c) Buying and Selling Racing Cars (including brand new Coopers)

Basically if it made money they were up for it!

[Stephen W]

Two snippets from Moroting News:

1) Mallory Park Boxing Day meeting and ROY PIKE finished 3rd in the Formula Libre race driving a 3.0 Lotus-Martin V8 35 for Charles Lucas Engineering.

2) Racing Car Show January and the Pearce-Martin is on display although the car had not been completed at this stage. It still had a Square tube spaceframe chassis as the monocoque wasn't ready in time and they utilised several Cooper suspension parts.

[Stephen W]

1970 and on the 21st May in Motoring News the following item appeared:

John Green's Daren-Martin V8 has been successfully track tested at Silverstone and should be ready for Thruxton this week-end. Following this appearance John Green will race the car at Nurburgring 1000Kms with Huge Dibley as his co-driver.

In the report on the Thruxton race (28th May MN) there is a discription of the dice Green had with Alain de Cadenet. The two clashed as they lapped a back marker at Club and Green arrowed into the Armco barriers.

Needless to say there was no entry at Nurburgring!

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Stephen W
Two snippets from Moroting News:

1) Mallory Park Boxing Day meeting and ROY PIKE finished 3rd in the Formula Libre race driving a 3.0 Lotus-Martin V8 35 for Charles Lucas Engineering.

2) Racing Car Show January and the Pearce-Martin is on display although the car had not been completed at this stage. It still had a Square tube spaceframe chassis as the monocoque wasn't ready in time and they utilised several Cooper suspension parts.

The Pearce-Martin at the show (No 1) never ran and doesn't seem to have been anything more than a mock-up. This is the car that mystfies me. I don't see why they would have taken it to Silverstone if it couldn't run and I'm not even sure if that transporter was big enough for three cars. The new post-Brands car (No 3) would have been in there as well as the Cooper-Ferrari but was No 1?

Allen

[Macca]

The racing car show exhibit certainly doesn't look like a runner in any of the magazine pics of the time, and the text says it was a monocoque whereas the articles about the car tested at Brands say spaceframe.

But there are three cars in that photo of the team outside the Western Road Garage that was in Car & Car Conversions IIRC. The transporter in the pic on (I think) Sutton Image's site of the small fire at Brands in 1966 looks a bit like a converted coach, and pretty big - but whether it could take 3 cars, I couldn't say.

The suspension on the Brands test car looks, as I said, very much like that of the Brabham BT7 & BT11, especially at the front - the Coopers of that time had inbard front springs, although they had the sweptback front top rear radius arm/wide-based wishbone, and only one rear radius arm.

The Sutton site seems to be down at the moment, but I'll try to post some links later.


Paul M

[Macca]

Chris Lawrence at Brands 1966

fire in Brands paddock 1966

Both the above are copyright Sutton Image. Can anyone identify the any of the people round the Cooper..............Allen, is that John Pearce on the left?

And this is the transporter after the big fire:
http://www.ten-tenth...tachmentid=4662




Paul M

[Allen Brown]

Originally posted by Macca
Allen, is that John Pearce on the left?

Paul - You overestimate me; I can barely remember what he looked like last time I met him, let alone what he looked like in 1966.

[MCS]

http://img55.exs.cx/...rcefire10dd.jpg[/IMG]
fire in Brands paddock 1966[/B]

So there were TWO paddock fires - one at Brands (above) and one at Silverstone?

Or were there more?

Mark