166 replies to this topic

[BorderReiver]

Hey everyone,

Now some of these will be obvious, but I'm sure the good people here can help me out with the more obscure examples.

I would like to collate a bit of a database on Racing Drivers who have also flown, either in civiallian life, or in combat. I'm sure there must be quite a few examples of both. Any information on aircraft ownership, hours flown etc would be fantastic, but that may be pushing it even for this forum. Oh and of course photo's!

Just to get people started I can only think of a few off the top of my head.

Graham Hill obviously held a pilots license, as did Niki Lauda, and Gilles Villeneuve (though this may only have been helicopters). And of course Indy winner Eddie Rikkenbacker is of course more famous for swatting down German Imperial Airforce machines in his Nieuports and Spads for the famous Hat in the Ring squadron. Anyone know anymore?

[BorderReiver]

Shame on me I forgot the late great David Purley.

[Vitesse2]

Jim Clark and Jack Brabham both held PPLs: does Sir Jack still fly BTW?

Robert Benoist flew with the French Air Force in WW1. Jean-Pierre Wimille was in the French Air Force in WW2, although I'm not sure if he was a pilot.

[BorderReiver]

And I forgot Jim Clark too . It's the end Altzheimers has come early to me. . . .

[Ron Scoma]

Dudley Froy once told me that he and his mother were the first mother-son pair to fly across the channel.
Kind Regards,

Ron Scoma

[Vitesse2]

Whitney Straight was a WW2 fighter pilot - later a big cheese at BOAC.

[VAR1016]

My hero (see avatar) Mike Hawthorn, used to fly; according to Chris Nixon, his father, Leslie. owned Argus aircraft and JMH flew one of these.

Later, he purchased a Percival Vega Gull.

It seems that his flying was rather like his road driving....

PdeRL

[JtP]

One of the most famous racing driver/ fighter pilots was the leader of the Peugeot team at the French GP, unfortunately his name escapes me for the moment. He was killed flying combat in WW1.

Tony Rolt also planned to fly, being one of the constructors of the Colditz glider. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your point of view the escape attempt was cancelled with the execution of the 50 escapees from Sagan. A replica has since been built and flown.

[BorderReiver]

Tony Rolt was one of the men who built the Colditz Glider? Thats amazing. I watched a documentary on that and never put two and two together. It was fascinating actually. . .

[LittleChris]

Originally posted by JtP
One of the most famous racing driver/ fighter pilots was the leader of the Peugeot team at the French GP, unfortunately his name escapes me for the moment. He was killed flying combat in WW1.

Tony Rolt also planned to fly, being one of the constructors of the Colditz glider. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your point of view the escape attempt was cancelled with the execution of the 50 escapees from Sagan. A replica has since been built and flown.

Georges Boillot I believe.

There was a programme recently ( UK - Channel 4 I think )about the Colditz Glider, but I don't think they actually flew it out out of the loft at the castle just tried to prove that it possibly could have flown . Don't know if the books are still available but I still get pleasure out of rereading them every couple of years ( The Colditz Story and The Latter Days at Colditz, both by Pat Reid who was one of if not the first to make a home run

[Vitesse2]

Straight also flew pre-War: he had a de Havilland Moth, which he used to travel from race to race - twenty-five years or so before Black Jack. Mind you, it helped that he had rather a lot of money ....

O/T How do you make a small fortune from motor racing?














Start with a large fortune ....

[Richard Jenkins]

Perhaps the greatest of them (racers/flyers) all was Tony Gaze, a living World War Two legend.
Mike Fisher too, was a top fighter pilot for almost 25 years. Jan Flinterman, too, was a hero in the War.

Joel Thorne, Lance Reventlow, Harald Ertl & more recently John Cannon all flew but all met their deaths in the air as did Ron Flockhart.

Thierry Boutsen not only flies but has his own small airline, whilst Mike Wilds works(ie flies) for Cabair, a small airline.

Other flyers (current & past;)
Emerson Fittipaldi, JYS, Ian Ashley & Jonathan Williams (both have or do work as pilots), Jean-Pierre Beltoise, Warwick Brown (also has flying business), Jean-Claude Rudaz & George Follmer (also have business links), Mauricio Gugelmin, Giovanni Lavaggi, Nannini?? (was he piloting the helicopter that caused his crash, I can't recall), Michael Schumacher &Mike Thackwell (another work related flyer)


and despite that hefty list I still think there's some I've forgotten.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by LittleChris


Georges Boillot I believe.

Just beat me to that one. But checking if it was Georges or André I discovered that Bob Bondurant was a helicopter pilot before starting racing.

[Ron Scoma]

Reggie Tongue was a pilot I believe.

Question:
Were there many "cross over" memberships in the Brooklands Automobile Racing Club and the Brooklands Aero Club?

Ron Scoma

[Keir]

Innes Ireland flew his own plane and gave the details in "All Arms and Elbows."

A great driver and a great book!!

[JtP]

Originally posted by LittleChris


Georges Boillot I believe.

There was a programme recently ( UK - Channel 4 I think )about the Colditz Glider, but I don't think they actually flew it out out of the loft at the castle just tried to prove that it possibly could have flown . Don't know if the books are still available but I still get pleasure out of rereading them every couple of years ( The Colditz Story and The Latter Days at Colditz, both by Pat Reid who was one of if not the first to make a home run

Georges Boillot, the very man. Thanks I won't have to look it up.

The original glider was never flown, escape attempts being banned. The glider was found by workmen repairing the castle in the 50s and broken up, they had no idea of the historic significance of it. The documentary proved that it would have flown, though the original lauching mechanism was not tried.

Iirc, Airey Neave the shadow Northern Ireland secetary who was killed at the House of Commons in 79 was first to make a home run. Major Pat Ried cannot have been far behind him and certainly had the most original place to start a tunnel.

[JtP]

Originally posted by Keir
Innes Ireland flew his own plane and gave the details in "All Arms and Elbows."

Not after the cows got it.

[Mac Lark]

Who was the Ferrari driver that had his pilots licence before his car licence??

[lanciaman]

Rodger Ward flew P-38s during WW2.

And the head of Jaguar NA for many years was ex-RAF pilot and former racer, Michael Dale.

[Mike Argetsinger]

I don't believe anyone has mentioned Rob Walker. Rob served with distinction in the Fleet Air Arm having joined the Navy in December 1939 and serving straight through 1945. He briefly held a private license before the war but was banned from flying for life after amusing attendees of the Cottenham National Hunt meeting by jumping the course over lunch in his Tiger Moth. Fortunately for the eventual freedom of the western world, the Navy made an exception. But I believe Rob never flew again after the war. The whole story is hilariously related by Michael Cooper-Evans in his biography, simply titled "Rob Walker."

[David Birchall]

A.F.P. Fane, prewar Frazer Nash and BMW driver of note. First raced at Brooklands in 1931, was works driver for Frazer Nash from 1935 and for BMW in the 1938 Mille Miglia where he won the 2 litre class. Won his class in a BMW 328 at the Nurburgring in 1937. A major player in creating the Frazer Nash legend. He already had a pilots license when war broke out but was considered too old (At 28!) to be a fighter pilot so was inducted into the Photo Reconnaissance section but interpreting photos not taking them. He became a pilot instructor, trained 51 pupils to fly before finally wangling himself into an active position. Fane flew PRU Spitfires. Unarmed, unmarked aircraft with all the latest airframe and engine mods; the idea was to get in, take the photo and get out before the enemy could respond. On January 25th 1942 Fane flew a Spitfire from the northern tip of Scotland across the North sea to the Norwegian coast and in a fjord located and photographed the German Battleship "Tirpitz".On July 18 1942 Fane's luck ran out and he crashed fatally near Duxford. Above info taken from: "From Chain Drive to Turbocharger" by none other than Denis Jenkinson

[Ray Bell]

Alf Barrett...



...seen leading here... was a pilot of some note.

When asked by someone* if he thought it was a shame he missed out on what should have been his best racing years because of WW2 he responded that he wasn't at all miffed about that.

"No, no, couldn't do the things we did those years in peacetime, what?"

Alf, IIRC, was teaching pilots to fly. His brother Gib was also an RAAF pilot, as I recall, and he also raced.

Ern Tadgell seems to have flown a bit too, along with Aussie Miller, I'd say.


Probably of more interest to many, and more literally in response to the original question, Jim Clark had two objects in mind when he came to the Tasman Cup series in 1965.

To win the Tasman... naturally... and to get his pilot's licence. I remember he was credited with giving the Warwick Farm layout a good inspection while taking instruction out of nearby Bankstown airport in the week leading up to the race, and I think he actually flew in and landed in the polo field next to the pits. But please don't quote me on the latter.

What he flew? I believe the AARC (who ran Warwick Farm) owned two Cessnas, but they might have been Pipers. The club had a strong 'air wing' with Geoff Sykes as their 'Commander' during that era and bought the aircraft as a commercial proposition for use by members and others.

Not sure, but I think Clark did fly one or both of them. Jack Brabham and Graham Hill probably did too.

[Don Capps]

It's E.V. "Eddie" Richenbacher or Eddie Rickenbacher or Eddie Rickenbacker, but not "Rikkenbacker."

Lloyd Ruby was also a pilot, winding up as an IP for bombers at Wichita Falls Air Base at the end of WW2.

[dbw]

seems to me that a car racer that flys a plane,private or fighter, is a bit like a racing pilot that drives to work in a car[or a tank in the military]....how 'bout those that RACED both cars and planes??..darryl greenamyer comes to mind..he was a legend at reno in his f8f-2 bearcat and his p-51..he also raced and did the mm[tho historic] in a fazzaz...a 315s i think...i know roscoe turner raced planes for gilmore..did he ever turn 4 wheels in anger?[lots of gilmore millers in those days]..any of the supermarine /schnieder cup pilots drive race cars? anyone?...a thought; didn't glenn curtiss race planes and motorcycles of his own manufacture?

[Ray Bell]

Should have thought of that...

John Goss took up racing aircraft after he stopped racing.

And I should have remebered the late Gary Campbell, who died in his Beech (?) twin trying to find a break in the clouds back in 1989.

Another was, of course, Ron Flockhart, who died in a Mustang IIRC just a few days or weeks after running a Cooper Climax in the pre-Tasman International races in Australia.

[Geoff E]

Of course, commentator Raymond Baxter was a Spitfire pilot and is the subject of one of Michael Turner's paintings:-

"Flt. Lt. Raymond Baxter's Spitfire MkXVI narrowly avoids a church spire to make a precision low level attack on V1/V2 Headquarters in The Hague on March 18, 1945."

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Geoff E
Of course, commentator Raymond Baxter was a Spitfire pilot and is the subject of one of Michael Turner's paintings:-

http://www.stenberga...g/item884c.html

sorry, only .jpg and .gif files work in the image brackets.

[Geoff E]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


sorry, only .jpg and .gif files work in the image brackets.

Thanks Ray - I just assumed it was a picture file but it was an html

[Jonas]

Bernd Rosemeyer learned how to fly after having met his wife-to-be Elly Beinhorn. If I'm not mistaken he flew to several of the races in which he took part. Like for instance the Nürburgring. The Rosemeyers had their own plane - Taifun.

[Eric McLoughlin]

I'm not sure if Rupert Keegan has ever held a flying licence but his dad, Mike Keegan, was the founder of the British independent airline, British Air Ferries. BAF used to fly cars across the English Channel to France in Bristol 170 Wayfarers and Aviation Trader ATL 98 Carvairs. Keegan's Aurora F1 cars carried BAF sponsorship (not surprisingly).

Sadly, Mike Keegan passed away only a few weeks ago.

Of course, both Bertie Fisher and his son Mark were helicopter pilots which, unfortunately, led to them both dying in the same helicopter accident.

[Vrba]

Nelson Piquet certainly qualified as a pilot, around 1985....I have somewhere a pic of him beside his training Cessna.

Hrvoje

[David Beard]

Spencer Flack.....

http://www.rotate.or...ny/mustang2.htm

[David McKinney]

If you want to bring in historic-racing drivers, Doug Marr (one-time owner/driver of a Maserati V8RI) was also a former Red Arrows pilot. The late Paul Morgan, owner of a pre-war Talbot and a B-Type Connaught at various times, but probably better remembered as half of Ilmor Engineering, was a keen vintage plane pilot, and you'd have to add Tony Bianchi (GP Talbot, Farrellac sportscar etc) and of course Alain de Cadenet. John Harper used to fly too - and to buy and sell planes. Must be loads more.
NZ drivers Johnny Riley (father of Brett) and Bill Thomasen at one time competed as the Corsair Racing Team, in remembrance of their days flying Corsairs in the Pacific during the war. Syd Jensen was a keen pilot.
Turning to Australia, and slightly OT - wasn't Julian St Q (Gib) Barret a cousin of Alf, rather than brother? And Flockhart had been racing a Lotus, not a Cooper, in the 1962 NZ and Australian internationals (the Cooper was the year before)

[VAR1016]

Robs Lamplough was in the RAF and is still a keen flier I believe, owning a Spitfire and a Mustang.

PdeRL

[cm50]

Ron Tauranac flew Harvards and Wirraways in the RAAF during the war plus 2 court martials but not sure whether they were related to flying.

[bukusuma]

IIRC, beside flying his R/C models, Senna is also a real pilot, and he tried his hand on helicopters also.

Don't know if he ever get his license though...

Bram

[Cirrus]

Ron Tauranac flew Harvards and Wirraways in the RAAF during the war plus 2 court martials but not sure whether they were related to flying.

One court martial was for aerobatics at low altitude. Apparently, whilst in Canada Ron flew along a river between the trees , banked round a bend and completed a slow roll, result - two weeks in the slammer. The other one was for something far more mundane, taking a unauthorised weekend off.

[Rob29]

Originally posted by VAR1016
Robs Lamplough was in the RAF and is still a keen flier I believe, owning a Spitfire and a Mustang.

PdeRL

He's another who has raced both cars & planes. I saw him fly a Sea Fury in the Reno Air Races.

[King Nigel]

Nigel Mansell's got a Cessna Citation X

[gmw]

Colin Chapman

Back in the early 70's a large neumber of NASCAR drivers were active pilots. I think that many of today's NASCAR drivers are pilots although they generally have hired crew for their perdonal planes.

Curtis Turner had his licence suspended for many exploits.

[Yves]

I think Henri Pescarolo is an helicopter pilot.

He has been importer of very light helicopter (2 and 4 seater) for France, don't remember the name.

Y.

[ehagar]

Hans Klenk.. flew Me 109s during the war and became a driver after.

[Alan Lewis]

Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
[B]Sadly, Mike Keegan passed away only a few weeks ago.[B]

Mike Keegan's obituary is in today's edition of The Times (along with Alejandro de Tomaso's (sic )). Born Thomas Denis Keegan, he picked up the nickname Mike during his RAF service and was more than happy to leave his given names behind him.

BAF was one of the first airlines to allow women pilots and the airline's inaugural Southend-Dusseldorf service was an entirely female-crewed affair.

The piece also mentions Mike's ownership of Hawke, the Formula Ford constructor.

APL

[Alan Lewis]

Originally posted by Jonas
Bernd Rosemeyer learned how to fly after having met his wife-to-be Elly Beinhorn. If I'm not mistaken he flew to several of the races in which he took part. Like for instance the Nürburgring. The Rosemeyers had their own plane - Taifun.

Further than that!

In the 1936/37 winter they flew the Taifun to South Africa where Bernd and Ernst von Delius raced in the South African and Grosvenor Grands Prix. The Racing The Silver Arrows videos have a newsreel interview with Elly about the trip.

APL

[Don Capps]

One of my early "heroes" hasn't been mentioned as of yet -- John Fitch. Fitch flew Mustangs and got shot down and ended the war a "guest" of the Germans.

Tazio Nuvolari eventually got a license in the waning days of the 1930's.

Cale Yarborough was not only a pilot, but a skydiver. I think he held the US record of the number jumps in a 24-hour period at one point.

[David Holland]

Peter Westbury was a very keen pilot and went on to earn his living from flying in the 1980s.

Wasn't David Prophet piloting the helicopter that crashed at Silverstone in 1981?

I'm sure there are many more examples.

[D-Type]

Duncan Hamilton served in the Fleet Air Arm in WW II and flew a Seafire

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins


Other flyers (current & past;)
Emerson Fittipaldi, JYS, Ian Ashley & Jonathan Williams (both have or do work as pilots), Jean-Pierre Beltoise, Warwick Brown (also has flying business), Jean-Claude Rudaz & George Follmer (also have business links), Mauricio Gugelmin, Giovanni Lavaggi, Nannini?? (was he piloting the helicopter that caused his crash, I can't recall), Michael Schumacher &Mike Thackwell (another work related flyer)

Can anybody confirm Jackie Stewart? I know he was an early user of private jets, but I always thought he got soebody else to do the flying (and made sure somebody else paid).

Similarly michael Schumacher.

[Mac Lark]

Originally posted by Mac Lark
Who was the Ferrari driver that had his pilots licence before his car licence??

Keir - any idea who this Kiwi might be?

[Doug Nye]

Two brilliantly gifted and hugely experienced test pilots also involved in racing were Mike Oliver - partner with fellow wartime RAF pilot Rodney Clarke in Continental Automobiles and creators of the Connaught marque and racing team - and 'Dizzy' Addicott of Vickers.

Mike (a wonderful bloke) became the chief test pilot for Folland and developed the wonderful little Gnat multi-purpose jet trainer, while Addicott most notably raced his Buick V8-engined Lotus 15 to tremendous effect when not zooming around sorting out Viscounts, Vanguards and VC10s etc.

And didn't John Fitch fly twin-engined Lightnings 'til he was shot down?

John Cooper was a private flyer - albeit both a nervous and unlucky one - and Cooper chief designer Owen Maddock took up gliding at one point to his team-mates' horror. Sure enough he couldn't resist pulling levers and pressing pedals and reputedly deployed his airbrakes too soon in one ambitious approach, stalled and undershot into the ground far short of his intended runway. Subsequently he resumed flying, but at a somewhat less threatening altitude...as a leading light member of the British Hovercraft Club.

Whitney Straight flew his brother Michael and Dick Seaman to South Africa and back in his cabin-biplane De Havilland twin Rapide.

'Bira' flew a Miles Gemini twin, taking his second wife to Bangkok.

Sir Malcolm Campbell flew - crash landing on an African beach and being found and cared for by locals the old s---bag described as "a bunch of filthy riffs".

And Dick Seaman of course flew his own Moth until he appreciated the inconvenience of requiring car transport at both ends of the journey, so why not simply use a car for the whole trip. The way he drove it was probably just as quick, and less dependent upon decent weather...

DCN