14 replies to this topic

[Megatron]

From Jayski

Dodge has no immediate plans to expand the number of factory-backed Winston Cup programs, despite cutting ties last week to Bill Davis Racing. "Something like that would not come as a direct, hasty response to what has occurred," said Todd Goyer, manager of Dodge Motorsports. "I can't say what will happen down the road, however." Last week, Dodge severed its contract to provide factory support to BDR's Winston Cup teams with drivers Ward Burton and Kenny Wallace. The manufacturer would not comment on the specific reason for its move, with Goyer saying only that BDR's actions were "intolerable." Speculation in the Winston Cup garage Friday was BDR was involved with Toyota and its plans to enter the NASCAR Truck series next season. Goyer would not directly respond to that issue, saying instead: "As a hypothetical question, it's safe to say if a Dodge team was working with another manufacturer, we would have concerns." BAM Racing, which fields the #49 Dodges for Ken Schrader, hopes to pick up some of backing previously directed to BDR. BAM currently receives little factory support from Dodge. "The Dodge people know what their plans are for the rest of the year. Anything they can do for us, the gratitude would certainly be unlimited," said Eddie Jones, BAM's general manager. "They are already doing the things for us they can. They had a limited number of contracts and we weren't one of them. But they have been doing everything they could because they have seen our loyalty to the brand." Although it has no full-time primary sponsor, BAM has entered every race this season and has used Dodges since it began a part-time schedule last season. BDR officials again Friday declined to comment on the situation.(ThatsRacin.com)(5-31-2003)


And even more on the Dodge thing - NASCAR gives a car and engine to Toyota? Another of the big stories here concerns car owner Bill Davis, who spent most of the day repeating 'No comment.' The bottom line is Dodge's one, big happy family isn't so happy, or as big, anymore, with the abrupt decision by DaimlerChrysler to cut Davis' two-car operation out of the fold a little more than a year after Davis and Ward Burton put Dodge in victory lane at Daytona. When Dodge returned to NASCAR's top division three years ago, it came with Ray Evernham, Petty Enterprises and Davis. Since then, Chip Ganassi and Roger Penske have jumped on the train, and those two Indy-car giants have been overshadowing Dodge's original threesome. Dodge's decision to drop factory support of the Davis team, because DaimlerChrysler officials hint the team has been providing technical advice to Toyota, was the talk of the Winston Cup garage yesterday ... except in Davis' hauler, where he and his crew were mum. 'No comment for the foreseeable future,' is all Davis is saying this weekend.
The surprising Dodge move has some key Winston Cup figures thinking that Toyota may be preparing to jump into Winston Cup racing sooner than expected. Tony Stewart said he has been told that NASCAR officials have given his Texas car to Toyota engineers for scrutiny -- NASCAR confiscated that car for uncertain reasons, and the sanctioning body hasn't given it back. Greg Zipadelli, Stewart's crew chief, said NASCAR also has given a Robert Yates' Ford motor to Toyota for detailed examination, in order to give Toyota a quicker jump out of the box. Stewart and Zipadelli are angry over those developments.



OK, so Bill Davis has lost his big Dodge deal because there might have been a little technology transfer. Then, they take the 20 car of Tony Stewart away for reasons that were never fully explained (what was his aero violation, I never heard it if they did), and they impound Robert Yates's Ford engine after it was changed before the Winston All Star Race.

So, in order to get Toyota a jump start on their carburated adventure, they MIGHT have a car from the current champion, Dodge technology, and an engine from, aside from Cosworth, possibly the best at building Ford engines (Yates built the Panoz unit for a number of years and is currently with the JMR R&S team as well).

This seems a tad bit extreme. The reason Jarrett's engine was taken away (and not given back) was offically because the team felt something was wrong with it. When inspected, it was discovered the engine was ok, so they "violoated" the rules by changing it. Therefore, NASCAR kept it.

Toyota have enough $$$ and engineering expertice in California or their headquarters in Japan, they don't need this kind of help.

Toyota didn't recieve an F2000 chassis or a BMW V10 to work on before they started F1, which is basically the equalivent here.

[redracecar]

file this one in the round file....

[Dudley]

It doesn't matter, Nascar will fiddle the makes equal anyway, they all use standard body templates and all but identical engines.

And the engines are the teams job to source most of the time anyway.

[Ross Stonefeld]

So whats going to happen on the flip side when NASCAR gives Toyotas tech to newcomer Honda in a few years, or makes rules to penalise the runaway Toyotas?

[Jordan191]

Originally posted by Megatron
From Jayski

Dodge has no immediate plans to expand the number of factory-backed Winston Cup programs, despite cutting ties last week to Bill Davis Racing. "Something like that would not come as a direct, hasty response to what has occurred," said Todd Goyer, manager of Dodge Motorsports. "I can't say what will happen down the road, however." Last week, Dodge severed its contract to provide factory support to BDR's Winston Cup teams with drivers Ward Burton and Kenny Wallace. The manufacturer would not comment on the specific reason for its move, with Goyer saying only that BDR's actions were "intolerable." Speculation in the Winston Cup garage Friday was BDR was involved with Toyota and its plans to enter the NASCAR Truck series next season. Goyer would not directly respond to that issue, saying instead: "As a hypothetical question, it's safe to say if a Dodge team was working with another manufacturer, we would have concerns." BAM Racing, which fields the #49 Dodges for Ken Schrader, hopes to pick up some of backing previously directed to BDR. BAM currently receives little factory support from Dodge. "The Dodge people know what their plans are for the rest of the year. Anything they can do for us, the gratitude would certainly be unlimited," said Eddie Jones, BAM's general manager. "They are already doing the things for us they can. They had a limited number of contracts and we weren't one of them. But they have been doing everything they could because they have seen our loyalty to the brand." Although it has no full-time primary sponsor, BAM has entered every race this season and has used Dodges since it began a part-time schedule last season. BDR officials again Friday declined to comment on the situation.(ThatsRacin.com)(5-31-2003)


And even more on the Dodge thing - NASCAR gives a car and engine to Toyota? Another of the big stories here concerns car owner Bill Davis, who spent most of the day repeating 'No comment.' The bottom line is Dodge's one, big happy family isn't so happy, or as big, anymore, with the abrupt decision by DaimlerChrysler to cut Davis' two-car operation out of the fold a little more than a year after Davis and Ward Burton put Dodge in victory lane at Daytona. When Dodge returned to NASCAR's top division three years ago, it came with Ray Evernham, Petty Enterprises and Davis. Since then, Chip Ganassi and Roger Penske have jumped on the train, and those two Indy-car giants have been overshadowing Dodge's original threesome. Dodge's decision to drop factory support of the Davis team, because DaimlerChrysler officials hint the team has been providing technical advice to Toyota, was the talk of the Winston Cup garage yesterday ... except in Davis' hauler, where he and his crew were mum. 'No comment for the foreseeable future,' is all Davis is saying this weekend.
The surprising Dodge move has some key Winston Cup figures thinking that Toyota may be preparing to jump into Winston Cup racing sooner than expected. Tony Stewart said he has been told that NASCAR officials have given his Texas car to Toyota engineers for scrutiny -- NASCAR confiscated that car for uncertain reasons, and the sanctioning body hasn't given it back. Greg Zipadelli, Stewart's crew chief, said NASCAR also has given a Robert Yates' Ford motor to Toyota for detailed examination, in order to give Toyota a quicker jump out of the box. Stewart and Zipadelli are angry over those developments.



OK, so Bill Davis has lost his big Dodge deal because there might have been a little technology transfer. Then, they take the 20 car of Tony Stewart away for reasons that were never fully explained (what was his aero violation, I never heard it if they did), and they impound Robert Yates's Ford engine after it was changed before the Winston All Star Race.

So, in order to get Toyota a jump start on their carburated adventure, they MIGHT have a car from the current champion, Dodge technology, and an engine from, aside from Cosworth, possibly the best at building Ford engines (Yates built the Panoz unit for a number of years and is currently with the JMR R&S team as well).

This seems a tad bit extreme. The reason Jarrett's engine was taken away (and not given back) was offically because the team felt something was wrong with it. When inspected, it was discovered the engine was ok, so they "violoated" the rules by changing it. Therefore, NASCAR kept it.

Toyota have enough $$$ and engineering expertice in California or their headquarters in Japan, they don't need this kind of help.

Toyota didn't recieve an F2000 chassis or a BMW V10 to work on before they started F1, which is basically the equalivent here.

If I were the teams and drivers I'd be pissed .. GIVING Toyota teams cars and engines ? WTF?
big on NASCAR for this crap. All the more reason for Tony Stewart to return to open wheel racing and kick some CART /IRL ass

[John B]

I've been following the story on the same website and was about to post this too.....the Stewart car is especially bizarre, that's been a strange story since it happened back at Texas (don't think there's any connection, but coincidentally TS has fallen very quickly in the standings from #2 since that time).

Will they be able to come in and dominate? THat question I think depends on the teams they are able to secure as much as anything. The big gun teams - the ones which don't just win the occaisional race, but will dominate the season standings - are Gibbs, Hendrick, Roush, and possibly the #8 DEI, and these outfits are pretty heavily tied to their manufacters (although Gibbs has switched back and forth from Chevy to Pontiac, its still GM). The teams on the fringe of success generally do the most switching. The new Dodge fleet has picked up a handful of wins scattered among its teams (albeit a couple big ones at Daytona and Indy) but by GM and Ford standards has yet to truly shake up the scene.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Toyota's going to start out in the truck series, and everything ive heard (im on the very fringe of one of the teams they might go to) is the teams they run with in truck, will be their winston cup teams, assuming they even go into Cup. Though im sure they will eventually. And actually they arent going where you'd think they would. If you look at teams in NASCAR you'd automatically think teams that have a pats history with Toyota. Haas-Carter, Ganassi, Penske, PPI, etc. Though ive heard via the grapevine that a senior TRD guy said they want to go with teams that "come from hunger"

My take on that is that if Toyota go winning with a top team, the team will get the credit. If Toyota come in with money and technology and transform a midpack team, everyone will go "wow look at that!" Think in these terms. Williams allways win, no matter who powers them. Imagine if VW came in and Sauber started winning races. We'd all be raving about how amazing the VW input is.

[John B]

Yeah I agree that their teams may not necessarly reflect past histories. PPI seems to be the #1 with Pontiac and got off to a good start, and being a favorite with Dodge seems to have made a big difference with Ganassi (look at their results since the switch, they did nothing until 2001). Another factor will be how big the teams are -- Hendrick, DEI, Gibbs and Roush alone account for 14 cars in the field (I think Gibbs is running a 3rd car at some races?)

[Ross Stonefeld]

Toyota's $$$ will have the biggest affect I think. They arent lacking for money or desire to spend it on racing. They'll subsidise a lot of it, which will hurt non-Toyota teams as they will have to continue to sell sponsorships at full price. Ie why sponsor RCR for 15mil a year when you can get a Toyota with the same results for 10. And part of that $$$ is people switching. They wrote a huge check to Newman-Haas and then Ganassi in CART to switch over when they hadnt so much as finished on the podium yet.

I could see under ideal circumstances

Ganassi - 3
Penske 2 (maybe even 3)
Haas-Carter 2
PPI 2

7-10 cars depending on teams with a 5th manufacturer in the series is a pretty good % of the field, and those teams would get you a bunch of cars in the top 10 in points.

[John B]

Wonder if they can bring in some wet-weather technology - yet another rain delay!

(Admittedly it might be tough on Dover's banking..... )

[John B]

Now the story is one of the teams started the rumor(s) as a prank.

Gibbs is getting "most" of the confiscated #20 car back.....

[aportinga]

If I were the teams and drivers I'd be pissed .. GIVING Toyota teams cars and engines

Ahhhh but that's where your wrong. When Toyota start kicken the crap out of the good old boys this will be thier golden excuse ;)

[Megatron]

Dodge has just sued Davis for around a half million bucks, supposedly the amount of money that Davis has not spent from the low seven figure range that Dodge gave him for his two cars.

[zango]

Originally posted by aportinga



Ahhhh but that's where your wrong. When Toyota start kicken the crap out of the good old boys this will be thier golden excuse ;)

Which is why I think Toyota should refuse this offer by NASCAR. It tarnishes their motorsports reputation atleast in the eyes of the hard core motorsports fan.

[Deeq]

Amazing really

If it wasn't it is surely