36 replies to this topic

[TedN]

Story Here

Ted

[No27]

Isn't the Laguna Seca track near SF?

Anyway, F1 at the Golden Gate Bridge: sounds good to me! Pitty 'bout the timezone they live. In Europe the GP would be broadcasted at something like 22.00h.

[mika911]

A few years ago we thought a San Francisco Grand Prix might be possible. I would LOVE to see it happen. It is still a bit of a travel for me, but at least it is on the west coast.

[jaisli]

It sounds wonderful and I would love to see a Grand Prix in San Francisco but...

1) It's unlikely that we'd ever see a 2nd race in the US.

2) There would probably be too much environmental opposition to having a race inside a state park within one of America's most ecologically conscious cities.

3) The track has not even been built and there is no indication who is going to pay for it.

4) The whole thing is about as likely as having a race through the public roads
of my home town.

But it's a nice thought.

jaisli

[minardifan2]

kind of sounds dumb to me considering laguna seca would make an awesome GP venue and its not too far away in the same state!
Imagine F1's through the corkscrew! I think it would need some safety upgrades though to meet f1 standards....

[mika911]

I would rather have F1 through a beautiful San Francisco park than at dirty Laguna Seca. There might be no one else who agrees with that, but a San Francisco Grand Prix through a park could become like Melbourne, Monaco, and Montreal. Cities that F1 are meant to be in.

[diego]

It'll never happen!

Imagine this scene: the cars complete their warmup lap, and as they are getting settled into their grid spots, the track is taken over by a Critical Mass bike "demonstration".

[John Galt]

Originally posted by diego
It'll never happen!

Imagine this scene: the cars complete their warmup lap, and as they are getting settled into their grid spots, the track is taken over by a Critical Mass bike "demonstration".

Damn I hate those guys! I have a bike too, but the stunts they pull are ridiculous.

[aportinga]

I think it would be great

Another Monaco - Anything to stop Ferrari ;)

[Toyoter]

The idiots should have never left Long Beach. That was by far the best place in the US to host an F1 race.

That said, I would definitely go see a race in San Fran. Great city. I live in Indy at the moment, but I have little doubt that F1 won't be here for long (unfortunately).

[Aubwi]

Yeah, just imagine all the excuses for a "protest". Environmental, "globalization" (its an international sport afterall), local traffic politics, and of course "not gay enough". I hate protesters. Excercising their freedom of expression by walking all over everybody else's rights.

[marion5drsn]

Please name a place near Frisco that can hold 200,000 spectators. You didn't state about dumping Indy. All races in the west have failed at the F-1 race either on the money angle or other reasons. Someone had better go back to putting tobacco in his or her pipe. Any one that has driven the streets in Frisco knows just how rotten they are just for regular driving not to mention F1 cars. It would be a track worse than Monaco . I’ll bet the city paid for the trip to Monaco. Any trip and excuse to get the taxpayers to pay for the trip.
M.L. Anderson

[Toyoter]

The article says the circuit would be constructed in a public park. Would it be this one perhaps?

http://www.parks.sfg...ge.asp?id=17796

[aportinga]

Hey Toyoter - how are you dude???

I like that park BTW - it would be great .....

PFT!!!! 200,000 fans my ass!

[redracecar]

Ha!

The center of bleeding hearts in America build an F1 track for the tobacco sponsored circus in a park near town?



not a chance.

I can see the protests now...

But marion is talking out his neck Long Beach was a huge success...

[bs]

Well, this rumor circulates every year after Monaco. Our current Mayor, Willie Brown, is somewhat of a gadfly, dandy and globe trotter. He loves beautiful people and parties. He may be something of a gearhead, I don't know as he keeps this under his hat (small inside joke). Back when there were rumors of a CART race in SF, I sent the mayor's office an email and got a canned response back that basically said nothing.

While I would love to have a race in my back yard, it would certainly face some hurdles, most of which have already been mentioned. There is also the possibility that hiz honor won't be in power (he def won't be mayor after this coming election, but his boy Newsome winning the the election is no lead pipe cinch, and more progressive candidates would not be disposed toward an event of this nature.

Too bad, it would be great to have a GP that I could walk to.

[POLAR]

I dont want to see F1 at Laguna at all, because Max, Bernie and that German guy who designs tha Mickey Mouse tracks would ruin it.

[Don Capps]

In 1915, San Francisco hosted the W.K. Vanderbilt, Jr. Cup and the ACA Grand Prize races, both won by Dario Resta in a Peugeot. So, Grand Prix racing has already visited San Francisco once before. And, in the early 1950's, there WERE sports car races run through Golden Gate Park, so one never knows.....

[Justafan]

This rumor was also present and gained the sanctity of the printed word just before the USGP was given to Indianapolis. The course was to be either at Treasure Island (Willie's Personal Fiefdom) or through the Presido. Marina Boulevard, just like Bullitt!

There would be NO problem drawing HUGE crouds for this race. There would be no problem with hotel rooms, they already cost too much and there are plenty of 'em. They drew over 400,000 for the Grand Prix of SF Bicycle race last year. The entire city is geared to handle big crowds, including demonstrations, which there no doubt would be some.

Laguna Seca, dirty? That's some mighty expensive dirt. Can't wait to go down there and get that dirt all over me in 9 days for the CART race. There are those of us that go to "sports car" races just to get dirty. They were the Gear Head's Woodstock of the '60's and '70's--nostalgia is good stalgia. I'd rather see USGP West at Laguna, thanks.

The Indy GP course ain't THAT bad. I really don't think they will lose this race, it'd be a pity.

[marion5drsn]

QUOTE FROM redracecar:

But marion is talking out his neck Long Beach was a huge success...

If the F-1 race was such a success then why is it not still there? Money as I stated above!

You need huge crowds to support a F-1 race unless the Government supports it with huge financial backing. Remember the football crowd can’t get L.A. to support a Stadium or the money for access roads and so forth with tax money to do that job. They were stabbed in the back too many times to get succored in again on a scheme of big football to have millions of their profits paid for by the taxpayer. Many may feel the same way about a F-1 race. The race crowd seems to be trying to tear down the Aquarium in L.B. to make the track bigger, which is hidden behind the fact that the aquarium is not a financial success.

By the way the crowds were down at the race this year. Not by much, but still down.
M.L. Anderson

[redracecar]

Pook could have kept it if he wanted to.

[jhodges]

While I would love to have a race in my back yard, it would certainly face some hurdles, most of which have already been mentioned. There is also the possibility that hiz honor won't be in power (he def won't be mayor after this coming election, but his boy Newsome winning the the election is no lead pipe cinch, and more progressive candidates would not be disposed toward an event of this nature.
Too bad, it would be great to have a GP that I could walk to.

You and me both.

With Newsome being financed by the Getty's you never know what kind of oil-rich sports may pop up in town if he wins. And Golden Gate Park could host the coldest-ever GP!

Re: Laguan Seca, do you guys ever watch the CART race there? The track is too tight for anything but motorcycles and access is a total nightmare. If I were in the BRDC I'd be lobbying Lagua to get a race just to take the heat off Silverstone.

[Don Capps]

Originally posted by redracecar
Pook could have kept it if he wanted to.

Not quite true. The option to operate at a significant loss for each event was not a choice that Pook was allowed, nor prepared, to make. Recall that Pook was the head of an organization which had to meet its operating costs and hopefully a bit more than that. When CART made a better offer than FOCA, it was not as difficult a choice as some today think it was. It came down to either CART or no Long Beach GP. Today, we still have the LBGP, an event which would have otherwise dried up and blown away 20 years ago.

Reality is that if the USGP isn't at the IMS circuit, no one else is truly prepared to underwrite the enormous costs of hosting the event. Try to justify the expenses needed to prepare a circuit in a place such as San Francisco against the significant budget decifits that State and local governments are now facing. If a State government were to spend the many millions necessary to provide the infrastructure for such an event while slashing school, library, medical, and other funding, well, you can just imagine the reaction.

As much interest as a GP in San Francisco might create, by the time the FIA got finished with the circuit -- which would be reduced to another anaymous concrete and ARMCO canyon -- and the funding -- looting might be a better term -- of the event, any fiscal viability in the foreseeable future would be remote at best.

On the other hand, if there were plans to build a facility to host a NASCAR event on a speedway, that would probably make it beyond the planning the stage since the NASCAR approach to the business of racing is entirely different than that of the FOM. A speedway would present an opportunity while a GP event would represent a liability. Were it not for the seemingly bottomless pockets of the George family, the USGP would either already be toes up or would be at the end of the current contract.

[chester316]

Originally posted by No27
Isn't the Laguna Seca track near SF?

Anyway, F1 at the Golden Gate Bridge: sounds good to me! Pitty 'bout the timezone they live. In Europe the GP would be broadcasted at something like 22.00h.

In north america on the west coast people have to get up at 4:00am in the east coast 7:00am to watch the race live. What are you complaining about

[chester316]

Originally posted by mika911
I would rather have F1 through a beautiful San Francisco park than at dirty Laguna Seca. There might be no one else who agrees with that, but a San Francisco Grand Prix through a park could become like Melbourne, Monaco, and Montreal. Cities that F1 are meant to be in.

Cant' agree with you more

[redracecar]

DC...thinly veiled F1 bash...

[chester316]

Originally posted by mika911
I would rather have F1 through a beautiful San Francisco park than at dirty Laguna Seca. There might be no one else who agrees with that, but a San Francisco Grand Prix through a park could become like Melbourne, Monaco, and Montreal. Cities that F1 are meant to be in.

Cant' agree with you more two of them that you mention are the GP's I have allways wanted to visit, i live in Montreal and unless you have been here during a GP weekend and visited our track you would not understand what's it like to be able to relax in a really nice park (in the shade) and be minutes away from your seats, it's organized very well.

[jhodges]

Originally posted by redracecar
DC...thinly veiled F1 bash...

Ridiculous.

I don' think there's a bigger fan of the sport of formula one I've met than Don. His encyclopaedic knowledge is a benefit to us all.

[marion5drsn]

Quote from Don Capps;
Were it not for the seemingly bottomless pockets of the George family, the USGP would either already be toes up or would be at the end of the current contract.

You hit it on the head with the word "seemingly". Just as a guess I'd say that if the U.S.G.P. doesn't pay a good profit, the George family will shut it down as soon as they see the red ink on the bottom line! M.L. Anderson

[random]

Is there even a single track that runs a direct profit from their F1 race?

Perhaps Monaco, as I suspect Bernie doesn't have much leverage to charge them as much as the others. But the Monaco government certainly incurs large setup costs and the venue seem to lack enough grandstand seats to satisfy those costs. So even if they were only charged 10 million a year by Bernie, they'd probably still not show an actual profit. Tourism dollars? Maybe, but it's hard to quantify that.

The point that Don makes about Nascar is right. In their business model, everyone makes money, including the venues. The tourism dollars are just gravy for the locality.

[Linus27]

Well, I hope F1 does not go to Laguna. What a boring over rated track. Only has the cork screw as an exciting part, the rest is dull.

[clapp81]

I could think of a million better venues in the U.S. than SF.

Maybe SF provides a stable economic base upon which to stage a race weekend, but street courses, sans monaco, suck.

Let's be serious here... Road Atlanta.. Road America... Watkins Glen... ALLL of these would blow SF out of the water in terms of racing for the purist.

[Don Capps]

Here is the 1915 course used for the W.K. Vanderbilt, Jr and ACA Grand Prize races:



As one can imagine, any attempt to run a race over a course in that part of SF today would make for an interesting time for all involved.

As for the remarks on Long Beach being "anti-F1," I was among the legions who were saddened that GP/F1 left Long Beach. While it was good that when F1 departed we were treated to the CART races, the sad fact remains that the promoters simply could not and would not meet the financial stipulations laid down by Ecclestone. There were no end of negotiations to make F1 work at Long Beach, but whereas the income was pretty much flat for the race and they were getting by, barely, the new sanctioning fees were simply too much. Enter CART who made an offer. Pook went back to Ecclestone and made another attempt to save the GP as an F1 race, but when Ecclestone didn't move in Pook's direction, Pook called the bluff and the talks with CART got very serious and Pook & LBGP Association went with the deal they could both live with and make money with.

It is forgotten by virtually everyone that Ecclestone "carried" the USGP in its last appearance at Watkins Glen in 1980. Unless Ecclestone had stepped forward to take over the event, it would not have been held. Full credit must be given to Ecclestone for doing this. While he is such an easy target for no end of reasons, Ecclestone is, at the core, someone who loves racing.

However, the Watkins Glen GP Corporation went bankrupt in 1981 and the USGP was dropped and there was an attempt to replace it with a CART event on the same date, but that also fell through. That was a very sad time for F1 in the US in many ways. Despite all the various GP events run in the next few years, the loss of the anchor of American GP/F1 racing, Watkins Glen, changed things.

Oh, it was always "The Long Beach Grand Prix" and not the "USGP West" as many assumed then and still assume now.

So, while I am quite blunt about the flaws of F1 and say so, I am very much a dyed in the wool GP fan. I have enjoyed far more F1 races over the years than I have those that have left me cold. While I am perhaps a bit more reserved about my enthusiasm for F1 these days than I was, say 30 or 40 years ago, it is still one of the series I pay VERY close attention to and will until I am physically or mentally unable to do.

[Chris G.]

Excellent post(s) and info Don. Thanks.

[merlyn6]

I'll bet Brown is not thinking of Golden Gate Park, but rather the Crissey Field area of the Presidio of San Francisco which is now a National Park. It would be a great setting with the bay on one side and the GG bridge in the background. It would require a whole course to be built and I agree with Don, it would be a looting of the city's treasury. It sure would be fun to see though.

[jhodges]

Cool map, Don.

That race route for 1915 was on the land reclaimed from the bay for the Pan-Pacific Exposition. That area later became the Marina after the expo buildings & pavilions were razed. All that is left of it is the Palace of Fine Arts. If I had to guess, Avenue of the Nations merged with Ave of the Palms and became Lombard and Esplanade is now Bay. The narrow bit (start area) would be where theyre building the new ILM campus then onto Chrissy Field. No way a race could held on that course now w/out major street changes (there are concrete islands all the way down the middle of the straight section of Lombard west of Van Ness) but its wide enough and I can certainly see grandstands......

Damn, it would be great to have a GP here.

[tormave]

Originally posted by No27
Isn't the Laguna Seca track near SF?

Anyway, F1 at the Golden Gate Bridge: sounds good to me! Pitty 'bout the timezone they live. In Europe the GP would be broadcasted at something like 22.00h.

The track close to SF is Infineon Raceway, formerly known as Sears Point, which is a quite modern racetrack. The time difference to CET is 9 hours so a 3PM start for qualifying and race translates to midnight.