Hello,
I was wondering if anyone knew what radio frequencies the drivers and pit crew communicate on? The reason I ask is that I will be attending the Canadian Grand Prix this weekend and want to listen in via a scanner and want to know if it is possible to pick up the conversations or whether they are encrypted. If the later, no use in bringing the scanner.
Thanks in advance.
Driver Radio Frequencies
Started by
Malted Libation
, Jun 09 2003 13:50
7 replies to this topic
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#2
boost
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- 2,199 posts
- Joined: July 00
Member
Posted 10 June 2003 - 02:25
This shows what they used previously - good chance they will be using the same freq, at the very least it will give you a place to start scanning.
http://www.bommeltje...tiedatabase.xls
Some examples:
CanGP2002
147.64500 David Coulthard
163.69000 Ralf Schumacher
163.86250 Juan Pablo Montoya
But the best place to get them is the local Telecomunication governing body - as these frequencies need to be applied for to be used by the teams.
http://www.bommeltje...tiedatabase.xls
Some examples:
CanGP2002
147.64500 David Coulthard
163.69000 Ralf Schumacher
163.86250 Juan Pablo Montoya
But the best place to get them is the local Telecomunication governing body - as these frequencies need to be applied for to be used by the teams.
#3
CCC
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- 61 posts
- Joined: December 02
Member
Posted 10 June 2003 - 07:15
Here's another good site for info on F1 frequencies:
groups.yahoo.com/group/f1scanner
groups.yahoo.com/group/f1scanner
#4
BertlF
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- 265 posts
- Joined: August 01
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Posted 10 June 2003 - 08:02
Aren't the radio transmissions scrambled/encrypted in order to avoid "evasdropping" by competitors? AFAIK McLaren is using a specialised encryption system from Kenwood. I don't think it's tat easy to listen in to the radio comm's between driver and pit crew......
Bert
Bert
#5
david_martin
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- Joined: October 00
Member
Posted 10 June 2003 - 08:32
Certainly some of the teams have (at least Ferrari and McLaren) said they have switched to using digital pit to car radio for voice traffic.
#6
BertlF
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Posted 10 June 2003 - 09:50
From www.McLaren.com:
"Communication is vital in any business. But in none is it as important as in the fast-moving, ever-changing world of Formula 1. The huge aerials atop all the team’s trucks are a sure sign that radio communications plays a major role at each grand prix. So, who better to explain how Team McLaren Mercedes uses radio systems to keep in touch than Phil Asbury. As Head of Systems Engineering he is responsible for radio communications at the circuit. No small job since every single member of the team has to be in radio contact over a race weekend.
Kenwood, leaders in home audio, car audio and communications equipment, have been an Official Supplier to McLaren since 1991 and have continued to work closely with the team to develop Formula 1 race wireless communication systems.
“The type of radio equipment we use is commercially available from Kenwood,” explains Asbury, “but with certain modifications to tailor it to the environment in which we use it. That’s to say a high-noise, high-vibration, hostile environment.”
In addition to the unusual stresses and strains under which the radios have to work, there is the added difficulty of so many teams wanting to use their radio systems alongside each other without clashing over the airwaves. As Asbury explains: “We apply in advance for our frequencies for all the circuits at which we intend to run and we need around a dozen frequencies to cover all of our requirements. These usually include four to six VHF frequencies, six UHF frequencies, two low microwave frequencies for telemetry transmission and one high microwave frequency for weather forecasting.”
This also touches on the point that each team requires more than one frequency as the various groups of team personnel have different communication requirements: a hierarchy if you like, a series of pyramids with a department head at the top of each.
“We have a VHF link between the car and the pits,” says Asbury. “While, for those team members working in the garage, we repeat the VHF signal on the UHF band. The VHF signal also goes direct to the intercom for those on the pitwall and those working on the telemetry stations. We allow access to the people who need to make the decisions, who need to have the facts, so that we can have a free-flowing, group conversation on the intercom. The structure of who may talk to whom is constantly evolving, as is the radio system.
“We liase with Kenwood’s R&D department in Tokyo, sitting down together to plan our future requirements and working together towards achieving those. To help achieve this, there’s always a Kenwood engineer – ‘Tokyo’ Joe Okanoue – with us at races and back at our base to relay our desires back to Japan.”
The joint aim is to improve the audio quality and security of radio transmissions. Talking of security, all voice communications are encrypted, but this can be at the expense of audio quality. Yet, with Formula 1 being so secretive, it pays to keep one’s messages private, not that trade secrets are given out over the radio.
Above all, the message must be clear to the driver. You might think that military know-how could be harnessed. Some can, but their end-game is different, as military transmitters are bulky and heavy, while Team McLaren Mercedes requires its equipment to be small and light.
For ease of access, the drivers’ radios are located by their right hip, just behind the seat, so that mechanics can reach in and adjust them should there be a problem during the race weekend.
When the session is over, the cars back in the garage, most team members take off their headphones and should they need to communicate with a team member who is out of sight, they have ME45 mobile phones from another Technical Partner, Siemens Mobile.
As much as it is essential for the computer engineers to talk to the race engineers and these engineers to be able to talk to the mechanics, one of the most vital links is between those on the pitwall and the drivers. Head of Race Engineering Steve Hallam relishes the links that Kenwood’s systems afford him, but says that life wasn’t always so easy.
“Communication with a driver on track has improved beyond all recognition,” he adds. “In the days before radio, we simply had the pitboard. This would inform the driver of his race or qualifying position, how many laps there are to go, his lap time from the previous lap and the interval between himself and either the car in front or the car behind, again at the end of the previous lap.
“We could add other messages such as ‘Tyres OK’, but for anything more than that we used hand signals, such as a driver patting his helmet to let us know that he wanted fresh tyres. These days are behind us, but we continue to use the pitboard as a back-up.”
Communicating in the pit garage has also made a quantum leap. “We used to use an intercom in the garage,” Hallam says. “The engineer would plug into a jack plug attached to the driver’s helmet. If others wanted to listen, one would have to plug into an amplifier box on the engineer’s belt and others into amplifier boxes on their belts in series. Despite all this, we could all talk together, rather than having to press a button to speak and doing so one at a time.”
This was all to change with the arrival of radio in 1984. At first, it was a step backwards in quality. However, the immediate gain was that the team had access to the driver at all times, even when they were on track, although the signal would be broken at circuits such as Hockenheim and Monza where the track ran through areas surrounded by trees. Buildings, the weather and even the amount of radio frequency noise can also affect the signal. “Interference and cross-talk were a problem in the early days,” Hallam reminisces, “with Ayrton Senna once hearing strange messages at Brands Hatch. It took us a while to work out that they were coming from a catering company on the infield… Mind you, the quality has improved every year since.”
Talking to the drivers when they’re on track, pushing as hard as they can, is a delicate matter. For starters, some don’t like to be interrupted. “Mika Häkkinen, like Alain Prost before him, was very, very quiet,” Hallam explains, “whereas David Coulthard talks a lot and likes to have as much information as possible.”
There are two hard-and-fast rules about communicating with a driver: keep it brief and make sure that the message isn’t ambiguous. Furthermore, in the interest of clarity and simplicity, there are only two people on the pitwall who are allocated to speak to the drivers: Hallam to Kimi Räikkönen and Race Team Manager Dave Ryan to Coulthard. If essential, others can speak to the drivers, but it’s not encouraged. Keeping it simple is vital, though, as if two people try to talk to a driver at the same time, they will be cancelled out and the driver will not hear a thing.
“It’s also important to know at what point around the lap one should speak to them: for example not when they’re attacking Eau Rouge,” continues Hallam. “You might think that it would be most sensible to talk to them when they’re on a straight, but they’ll be at full throttle so it will be very noisy for them. Equally, when they’re off throttle they’ll probably be busy in a tight corner.
“Each driver has a preference and we discuss this in advance, helped by analysing throttle openings at any point around the circuit. Another aid is having one of the pitwall monitors tuned to the on-board camera channel, so that I can see when the driver is pressing the radio button on the steering wheel.”
Drivers can also provide useful information as they complete an in-lap, helping the team save time when he reaches the pit. Pits-to-car radio is also an aid when a driver leaves the pits, so that he can be warned of cars approaching, of warning flags ahead, or even of where the traffic is so that he can find a clear lap in qualifying.
All in all, radio communications have been a massive boon to today’s Formula 1 teams. But, even as you read this, Kenwood and Team McLaren Mercedes are working to streamline and improve their systems yet more, as progress is everything."
Bert
"Communication is vital in any business. But in none is it as important as in the fast-moving, ever-changing world of Formula 1. The huge aerials atop all the team’s trucks are a sure sign that radio communications plays a major role at each grand prix. So, who better to explain how Team McLaren Mercedes uses radio systems to keep in touch than Phil Asbury. As Head of Systems Engineering he is responsible for radio communications at the circuit. No small job since every single member of the team has to be in radio contact over a race weekend.
Kenwood, leaders in home audio, car audio and communications equipment, have been an Official Supplier to McLaren since 1991 and have continued to work closely with the team to develop Formula 1 race wireless communication systems.
“The type of radio equipment we use is commercially available from Kenwood,” explains Asbury, “but with certain modifications to tailor it to the environment in which we use it. That’s to say a high-noise, high-vibration, hostile environment.”
In addition to the unusual stresses and strains under which the radios have to work, there is the added difficulty of so many teams wanting to use their radio systems alongside each other without clashing over the airwaves. As Asbury explains: “We apply in advance for our frequencies for all the circuits at which we intend to run and we need around a dozen frequencies to cover all of our requirements. These usually include four to six VHF frequencies, six UHF frequencies, two low microwave frequencies for telemetry transmission and one high microwave frequency for weather forecasting.”
This also touches on the point that each team requires more than one frequency as the various groups of team personnel have different communication requirements: a hierarchy if you like, a series of pyramids with a department head at the top of each.
“We have a VHF link between the car and the pits,” says Asbury. “While, for those team members working in the garage, we repeat the VHF signal on the UHF band. The VHF signal also goes direct to the intercom for those on the pitwall and those working on the telemetry stations. We allow access to the people who need to make the decisions, who need to have the facts, so that we can have a free-flowing, group conversation on the intercom. The structure of who may talk to whom is constantly evolving, as is the radio system.
“We liase with Kenwood’s R&D department in Tokyo, sitting down together to plan our future requirements and working together towards achieving those. To help achieve this, there’s always a Kenwood engineer – ‘Tokyo’ Joe Okanoue – with us at races and back at our base to relay our desires back to Japan.”
The joint aim is to improve the audio quality and security of radio transmissions. Talking of security, all voice communications are encrypted, but this can be at the expense of audio quality. Yet, with Formula 1 being so secretive, it pays to keep one’s messages private, not that trade secrets are given out over the radio.
Above all, the message must be clear to the driver. You might think that military know-how could be harnessed. Some can, but their end-game is different, as military transmitters are bulky and heavy, while Team McLaren Mercedes requires its equipment to be small and light.
For ease of access, the drivers’ radios are located by their right hip, just behind the seat, so that mechanics can reach in and adjust them should there be a problem during the race weekend.
When the session is over, the cars back in the garage, most team members take off their headphones and should they need to communicate with a team member who is out of sight, they have ME45 mobile phones from another Technical Partner, Siemens Mobile.
As much as it is essential for the computer engineers to talk to the race engineers and these engineers to be able to talk to the mechanics, one of the most vital links is between those on the pitwall and the drivers. Head of Race Engineering Steve Hallam relishes the links that Kenwood’s systems afford him, but says that life wasn’t always so easy.
“Communication with a driver on track has improved beyond all recognition,” he adds. “In the days before radio, we simply had the pitboard. This would inform the driver of his race or qualifying position, how many laps there are to go, his lap time from the previous lap and the interval between himself and either the car in front or the car behind, again at the end of the previous lap.
“We could add other messages such as ‘Tyres OK’, but for anything more than that we used hand signals, such as a driver patting his helmet to let us know that he wanted fresh tyres. These days are behind us, but we continue to use the pitboard as a back-up.”
Communicating in the pit garage has also made a quantum leap. “We used to use an intercom in the garage,” Hallam says. “The engineer would plug into a jack plug attached to the driver’s helmet. If others wanted to listen, one would have to plug into an amplifier box on the engineer’s belt and others into amplifier boxes on their belts in series. Despite all this, we could all talk together, rather than having to press a button to speak and doing so one at a time.”
This was all to change with the arrival of radio in 1984. At first, it was a step backwards in quality. However, the immediate gain was that the team had access to the driver at all times, even when they were on track, although the signal would be broken at circuits such as Hockenheim and Monza where the track ran through areas surrounded by trees. Buildings, the weather and even the amount of radio frequency noise can also affect the signal. “Interference and cross-talk were a problem in the early days,” Hallam reminisces, “with Ayrton Senna once hearing strange messages at Brands Hatch. It took us a while to work out that they were coming from a catering company on the infield… Mind you, the quality has improved every year since.”
Talking to the drivers when they’re on track, pushing as hard as they can, is a delicate matter. For starters, some don’t like to be interrupted. “Mika Häkkinen, like Alain Prost before him, was very, very quiet,” Hallam explains, “whereas David Coulthard talks a lot and likes to have as much information as possible.”
There are two hard-and-fast rules about communicating with a driver: keep it brief and make sure that the message isn’t ambiguous. Furthermore, in the interest of clarity and simplicity, there are only two people on the pitwall who are allocated to speak to the drivers: Hallam to Kimi Räikkönen and Race Team Manager Dave Ryan to Coulthard. If essential, others can speak to the drivers, but it’s not encouraged. Keeping it simple is vital, though, as if two people try to talk to a driver at the same time, they will be cancelled out and the driver will not hear a thing.
“It’s also important to know at what point around the lap one should speak to them: for example not when they’re attacking Eau Rouge,” continues Hallam. “You might think that it would be most sensible to talk to them when they’re on a straight, but they’ll be at full throttle so it will be very noisy for them. Equally, when they’re off throttle they’ll probably be busy in a tight corner.
“Each driver has a preference and we discuss this in advance, helped by analysing throttle openings at any point around the circuit. Another aid is having one of the pitwall monitors tuned to the on-board camera channel, so that I can see when the driver is pressing the radio button on the steering wheel.”
Drivers can also provide useful information as they complete an in-lap, helping the team save time when he reaches the pit. Pits-to-car radio is also an aid when a driver leaves the pits, so that he can be warned of cars approaching, of warning flags ahead, or even of where the traffic is so that he can find a clear lap in qualifying.
All in all, radio communications have been a massive boon to today’s Formula 1 teams. But, even as you read this, Kenwood and Team McLaren Mercedes are working to streamline and improve their systems yet more, as progress is everything."
Bert
#7
Malted Libation
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- 12 posts
- Joined: August 02
New Member
Posted 10 June 2003 - 12:29
Wow... thank you folks for this great information. I now have an idea of the frequency ranges to scan so it should make for a more exciting race even though some are moving to the digital (encrypted) signals.
Cheers.
Cheers.
#8
alfa1
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- 1,997 posts
- Joined: June 02
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Posted 13 June 2003 - 10:45
From someone who's been listening to the F1 drivers at Australian GP since 1987, I'll add that
most teams dont use encryption. For a few years, some of the teams (Williams, McLaren) used a simple 'voice inversion' method which some high end scanners can handle, but none have done that (at least in Australia) for a few years now, although I read reports that Jordan still do it at Silverstone tests. Having said that, Ferrari has radios capable of using digital encryption and since nobody has heard them in recent years it is suspected that they use it.
In Australia earlier this year, McLaren and Williams were both 'in the clear'.
I'll also add that the f1scanner yahoo group appears to be the best place to get frequency updates.
For those looking for the frequencies in Canada, one must bear in mind the frequencies may change slightly from the ones used last year, although they will be similar if the team hasnt changed radio equipment. Look through the lists (f1scanner group) of frequencies used by each of the teams in recent times and search through that range during the weekend. For example, you'll probably find a Williams driver near 164 Mhz, Jaguar around 454 Mhz, and Renault near 458 Mhz.
Keep in mind that as well as the pits-car transmissions, there will also be frequencies used by other engineers/mechanics and its not uncommon for the driver comms to be retransmitted on those frequencies so the pit crew can listen in.
most teams dont use encryption. For a few years, some of the teams (Williams, McLaren) used a simple 'voice inversion' method which some high end scanners can handle, but none have done that (at least in Australia) for a few years now, although I read reports that Jordan still do it at Silverstone tests. Having said that, Ferrari has radios capable of using digital encryption and since nobody has heard them in recent years it is suspected that they use it.
In Australia earlier this year, McLaren and Williams were both 'in the clear'.
I'll also add that the f1scanner yahoo group appears to be the best place to get frequency updates.
For those looking for the frequencies in Canada, one must bear in mind the frequencies may change slightly from the ones used last year, although they will be similar if the team hasnt changed radio equipment. Look through the lists (f1scanner group) of frequencies used by each of the teams in recent times and search through that range during the weekend. For example, you'll probably find a Williams driver near 164 Mhz, Jaguar around 454 Mhz, and Renault near 458 Mhz.
Keep in mind that as well as the pits-car transmissions, there will also be frequencies used by other engineers/mechanics and its not uncommon for the driver comms to be retransmitted on those frequencies so the pit crew can listen in.
