44 replies to this topic

[D. Heimgartner]

As the news of MS' contract extension spreads to all the various parties involved in Formula One racing, I know there will be a number of reactions: some, like the Ferrari fans, will be absolutely ecstatic; others, like Frank Williams and D. Coulthard and R. Barrichello, will mark this day to be one of the lowliest in their lives. A special mention should go out to Toyota and Ove Andersson; their five year plan is well known, and now they have been frustrated in only their second year. It does look bleak for many, including many fans who are tired of seeing total domination in a blur of Marlboro Red.

There are exactly three seats on the whole grid that can in any way challenge MS supremacy: 1B at Ferrari, and McLarens to seats. (Williams have shown that they will be a non-factor and Renault have taken themselves out of any chance at contention.) Historical precedence tells us that 1B at Ferrari will never be allowed to contend with MS; indeed, Ferrari will make sure to put someone into 1B who, to the frustration of millions of RACING fans, lacks the mental fortitude and technical speed and skill of a Montoya or Villeneuve. That leaves us with two seats at McLaren, which I will herewith designate as X and Y, held by K. Raikkonen and D. Coulthard, respectively. Kimi has a secure grip on his seat, and he has become the primary challenger of MS, both for this season and the coming three. DC, on the other hand, is on the way out; he is so on the way out! The news that MS has extended his contract must have instantly triggered a spasm of nausea in Ron Dennis--but once he has composed himself, he must have undoubedly concluded that he could no longer waste seat Y on the affable playboy and perennial, aspiring Championship Contender.

So there you have it folks!

Now for the real point of this post!

As it stands and as I have highlighted in the above paragraphs, the only real competition over the next 3 1/2 to 4 years for MS will be from McLaren. And there are exactly four drivers who Ron Dennis will consider for seat Y, to partner with Kimi. To allay the suspense, I will list the drivers in no particular order: Montoya, Fisichella, Villeneuve, and.....

























Mika Hakkinen. Yes folks, it has to be considered. The new MP 4/18 is a masterpiece of engineering and technical brilliance. It has a beast of a Mercedes V-10 under its glittering carbon fibre hump. And the Michelin tires are as perfectly tailored for its sweet handling chassis as are the Bridgestone for the Ferrari. Could Mika be lured out of his slumber in Scandanavia? Frankly, I would harbor to guess 'yes.' He is bound to realize that over the course of the next three years, 2004-2006, that he could not only challenge for the WDC, but most probably win it too! Perhaps once, perhaps twice...

Not only would R. Dennis ensure an even greater legacy for his favorite Fin, not only would he ensure that the hundreds of millions of F1 fans would be riveted by the drama of seeing the two most successful drivers of the past decade continue their dramatic duels, Ron Dennis would also ensure that Ferrari wouldn't come near the Constructor's Championship again!

[Menace]

....AND THEN YOU WOKE UP!........

[Hotwheels]

Wishful thinking - but i hope it can come true. It would be fantastic.

On the other hand, if JPM realise Williams is no go - he just may go to Mclaren , with Ferrari now being not available.
Even a JPM /Kimi combo might get excellent results for Ron. I don't know why, but i ave a feeling this is going to come true.


I also think that 2005 or 2006 - MS will guide RS into Ferrari - first as 1b and then as 1.

[Jordan191]

I fail to see how Mika guarantees a WC .. unless the Mac 18 is like majorly superior to everything out there or MS dosen't break a leg ( which explains Mika's 2 WCs )

Nice little troll

[scdecade]

Originally posted by D. Heimgartner
There are exactly three seats on the whole grid that can in any way challenge MS supremacy: 1B at Ferrari, and McLarens to seats. (Williams have shown that they will be a non-factor and Renault have taken themselves out of any chance at contention.)

That was quite a demonstration of non-factorness that Williams put on in Monaco. Williams and BMW do bicker and they haven't put everything together technically on a consistent basis yet (this is only year 4 of the partnership(!), after all) but to factor them out of the championship for the next 4 years is idiotic. Williams is the third most accomplished team in the field and has won Grand Prix with several different engine manufacturers over the years.

Renault has taken themselves out of contention? How so, by adopting a similar engine configuration to the rest of the field? Have you forgotten that Renault engines powered to 6 consecutive World Constructors Championships in the '90s, or maybe you were born yesterday? To write off Renault when they are ascending seems questionable.

[Menace]

Originally posted by Jordan191


Nice little troll

Yeah, I think that covered your post perfectly!

[Jordan191]

Originally posted by Menace


Yeah, I think that covered your post perfectly!

well since we're on the subject



now if you can bring something other than a finger smiley please carry on otherwise .. well see above

[orange]

MH coming back ..... tough chance ...

He played it safe and opted out when it became tough ...
So why would be come back and have to struggle for 4-5 races before coming in grip with the car and team mate ...

Then the going went tough , the tough went "going" ;-)

[kismet]

He played it safe and opted out when it became tough ...

Honestly, I don't know what to say. The guy very nearly gets himself killed on a race track, not only recovers but returns to racing and goes on to win two WDC titles, and is quite generally regarded as the only guy that has been able to provide MS with even remotely consistent opposition... and when he finally decides that it isn't worth it anymore, he's accused of wanting to play it safe and not being able to handle tough times. Please...

[Jordan191]

Originally posted by kismet


Honestly, I don't know what to say. The guy very nearly gets himself killed on a race track, not only recovers but returns to racing and goes on to win two WDC titles, and is quite generally regarded as the only guy that has been able to provide MS with even remotely consistent opposition... and when he finally decides that it isn't worth it anymore, he's accused of wanting to play it safe and not being able to handle tough times. Please...

yah and that makes Mika the 'feel good story' special of F1 .. it dosen't chage the fact he left when it got tough. I'm sorry that my views conflict with the PC views expressed by others but that's the way I see it.

[zengiman]

Intelligent thread... Shows a lot of understanding of f1. Of course, you see a nice car, you jump in and you are champion of the world again....

[The RedBaron]

Originally posted by Hotwheels
Wishful thinking - but i hope it can come true. It would be fantastic.

On the other hand, if JPM realise Williams is no go - he just may go to Mclaren , with Ferrari now being not available.
Even a JPM /Kimi combo might get excellent results for Ron. I don't know why, but i ave a feeling this is going to come true.


I also think that 2005 or 2006 - MS will guide RS into Ferrari - first as 1b and then as 1.

No way Ralf will be going there, it's most likely JPM or Alonso

[kismet]

yah and that makes Mika the 'feel good story' special of F1 .. it dosen't chage the fact he left when it got tough. I'm sorry that my views conflict with the PC views expressed by others but that's the way I see it.

By all means. I didn't and still don't particularly even like the guy, but I find irony in the fact that a so-so McLaren and a couple of retirements are considered tough times that he couldn't handle when his F1 racing career is pretty much a testament to overcoming obstacles far bigger than that. That's all.

[Enamuser]

Get real. As far as I'm conserned Mika was always going to be on bought time after the accident. You simply can't measure what something like that does to you and how it changes your values. Ok maybe he would have played for another year if there was a realistic chance of WDC but he knew it would take two to three years to have a chance. As it was he found out he didn't enjoy the circus anymore the travelling etc. I don't think it had anything to do with not standing the tough fight. It simply didn't fit his plans and perspective in life anymore. Let's say Michael dies in a crash. What do you care?

[D. Heimgartner]

SCdecade, I didn't know that Renault won 6 consectuive CC in the 90s... but most people would agree that the technical game has been raised to a new degree in the past few years. Just look at Honda as a perfect example, they've had heaps of success in past decades, but they can't put a decent engine together for the life of them. Renault committed to an extreme angle engine, and now they are abandoning this philosophy and going back to the drawing boards. More than a few posters over at the technical forum have noted that this change in plans puts Renault back by a couple of years at least, if not more. So I don't think I'm out of line saying that Renault won defeat McLaren and Ferrari in the next 2-3 years. Remember, I'm not talking about being competitive, I'm not saying Renault won be 3rd or 4th in the WCC...

As far as Williams go, they clearly have shown themselves incapable of producing a car as stellar as the last few Ferraris or the new McLaren. And if you look at Williams' performance this year, they were never that close to Ferrari. In Australia, for example, Montoya had a chance at the win only because of MS/Ferrari's cockup and Kimi's spin. As far as Monaco is concerned, RS might have been on super low fuel and Montoya only won because Kimi had been held up by JV, that has been well documented.

In any event, I am not trolling; I'm just trying to sort out what I forsee for the 2004, 2005, and 2006 seasons. I feel fairly certain that McLaren and Ferrari will be the primary players in the hunt for the WCC and WDC championships in the coming three years. And since very few of us believe that Ferrari will partner MS with someone of the highest ability and skill, then it seems that my point that only McLaren's two seats have the potential to dethrone MS/Ferrari is certainly valid.

As far as Hakkinen is concerned, he surely must be tempted to get back into the car--now that the car has the potential speed to measure up to the newest Ferrari. Personally I think that Hakkinen used "safety reason/danger of racing" as an excuse to get out of the tough situation of driving a underpowered McLaren for 2002/2003.

However, as I mentioned in my first post, I don't think the chances are high that Hakkinen will return. But I am certain that Coulthard is on the way out!!! So we can expect to see Villeneuve or Fisichella in that seat. I have significant doubts that Montoya will leave behind Williams for any other seat than a Ferrari. So that leaves only JV and GF... I don't see any other drivers who could go to McLaren, other than perhaps Heidfeld.

[zango]

Originally posted by D. Heimgartner

The new MP 4/18 is a masterpiece of engineering and technical brilliance. It has a beast of a Mercedes V-10 under its glittering carbon fibre hump. And the Michelin tires are as perfectly tailored for its sweet handling chassis as are the Bridgestone for the Ferrari.

All of that is pure speculation at this point McLaren haven't even release test times yet. So there is absolutely no way of telling how fast the car really is. And maybe more importantly this year: how reliable is the car? That is a question which will not get answered until the car has run a few full race simulations.

Sure the car looks good but if looks counted for anything the Toyota would have been a front runner this year.

EDIT: fix formatting.

[Mila]

Originally posted by Jordan191
yah and that makes Mika the 'feel good story' special of F1 .. it dosen't chage the fact he left when it got tough. I'm sorry that my views conflict with the PC views expressed by others but that's the way I see it.

actually, after the Finn nearly died in Adelaide in 95, the going at Mclaren continued to be tough--for another two seasons.

other that that, get a clue.

[Velocifer]

Originally posted by Enamuser
Get real. As far as I'm conserned Mika was always going to be on bought time after the accident. You simply can't measure what something like that does to you and how it changes your values. Ok maybe he would have played for another year if there was a realistic chance of WDC but he knew it would take two to three years to have a chance. As it was he found out he didn't enjoy the circus anymore the travelling etc. I don't think it had anything to do with not standing the tough fight. It simply didn't fit his plans and perspective in life anymore. Let's say Michael dies in a crash. What do you care?

Enzo Ferrari said that having kids meant you were no longer a racer, and it is probably true for most people, Hakkinen included. (notable exceptions to prove the rule.. ) Hakkinen took a lot out after 95 and I would say lost the hunger more than he got nerves after little Hugo (?) arrived.

I am certain that he is thinking about the still open offer from his mentor Ron, but my gut feeling is that he is not as possessed as say a Lauda to stage a fruitful comeback and knows it. Besides, he would feel too old besides Kimi. There is a picture somewhere of an oldish-looking Mika handing young Kimi some keys and it says it all for me. My guess is that he won't come back, but I would be chuffed if he did cause we need someone to show that races and championships can be won gallantly.

[JForce]

I find it funny that you believe and assume the MP4-18 is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

It could be a piece of **** for all you know.

And Mika?

No way. Ain't gonna happen.

AlonsoSpainBoy to Ferrari

[orange]

Originally posted by kismet


Honestly, I don't know what to say. The guy very nearly gets himself killed on a race track, not only recovers but returns to racing and goes on to win two WDC titles, and is quite generally regarded as the only guy that has been able to provide MS with even remotely consistent opposition... and when he finally decides that it isn't worth it anymore, he's accused of wanting to play it safe and not being able to handle tough times. Please...

Agree with MH's determination , but after 2001 it was clear that his motication lacked as car didn't perform.
If McLaren was fighting for C'ship (like 2000) , Mika would have continued ..
He just didn't want to stick for 2/3 years behind Ferrari .....

[hedges]

Originally posted by D. Heimgartner
snip...

As far as Williams go, they clearly have shown themselves incapable of producing a car as stellar as the last few Ferraris or the new McLaren. And if you look at Williams' performance this year, they were never that close to Ferrari. In Australia, for example, Montoya had a chance at the win only because of MS/Ferrari's cockup and Kimi's spin. As far as Monaco is concerned, RS might have been on super low fuel and Montoya only won because Kimi had been held up by JV, that has been well documented.

snip...

I have significant doubts that Montoya will leave behind Williams for any other seat than a Ferrari. So that leaves only JV and GF... I don't see any other drivers who could go to McLaren, other than perhaps Heidfeld.

Why do you believe Williams are incapable of being a "real" force in the next few years but think that JPM (who should be more aware of these things) wouldn't accept a McLaren drive if offered?

[HSJ]

Originally posted by Menace
....AND THEN YOU WOKE UP!........

Too bad though, it is a nice dream.

[Mrv]

Originally posted by JForce
I find it funny that you believe and assume the MP4-18 is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Probably burnt bread.

[Hakk]

Mika is out and he is not coming back. The more he has been with his family, the more certain he has been that he has done the right decision. When visiting in F1 pits he says he sure hasn't missed anything. He has the money, he has the family, he almost got killed in F1 car, he has been out now for couple of years, he is happy - come on, who does seriously think that he is coming back?!?

[skinnylizard]

and how many of you have had a dialogue with Mika regarding how he really really feels?let me see how many people retired and came back strong - Prost, Lauda (after like what was it 3-4 years out) so lets not profess to know anything for sure.
**** ****ing happens.
Fisichella wont go to a top team simply because no one wants him. His performances of late have been pretty average and he dosent have the bullet up his arse that the top 8 do. (cept mabe Trulli but even he seems to be itching to get his game back up).
Even if DC is edged out there will be a top 6 poaching and nothing lower. which leaves Heidfeld out. Im not sure Mika will return but he isnt quite over the hill and far away yet so it could mean a small possibility. Ralf will not go to McLaren not until his contract is out or he is fired. same goes for Monty. so for now next year seems to be the same old combination except mabe the movement of a J. Villeneuve which would be interesting to see.
xxx
www.pi-media.com
www.eranstudio.com

[TT6]

Originally posted by zengiman
Intelligent thread... Shows a lot of understanding of f1. Of course, you see a nice car, you jump in and you are champion of the world again....

Mika won't be back, but on the other hand some champions did come back succesfully.

[HSJ]

Originally posted by Jordan191
I fail to see how Mika guarantees a WC .. unless the Mac 18 is like majorly superior to everything out there or MS dosen't break a leg ( which explains Mika's 2 WCs )

Nice little troll

Well, McLaren have KR so MH is not really needed. KR doesn't even need a superior car you know, look at the standings!

[Vrba]

Originally posted by HSJ

Well, McLaren have KR so MH is not really needed. KR doesn't even need a superior car you know, look at the standings!

No, he needed rules to be changed :-)

Hrvoje

[heki]

Originally posted by Vrba


No, he needed rules to be changed :-)

Hrvoje

In what way did he profit from the rule changes?
In the old scoring system it would be a tie o the top of the standings between MS and Kimi on 38 pts.
As far as new qualy rules, Kimi lost because of them (probably) the most places on the grid

[Vrba]

Originally posted by heki


In what way did he profit from the rule changes?
In the old scoring system it would be a tie o the top of the standings between MS and Kimi on 38 pts.
As far as new qualy rules, Kimi lost because of them (probably) the most places on the grid

Very simple: apply last year's points system to this year's results and you'll see Schumacher leading the championship. No tie as MS has more wins.

Hrvoje

[gerry nassar]

D. Heimgartner - nice thread

It most likely wont happen but it was a nice read anyway

heki - dont waste your time - with some MS fans you jsut wont win no matter what - they'll spin some more ****.

[Vrba]

Originally posted by gerry nassar

heki - dont waste your time - with some MS fans you jsut wont win no matter what - they'll spin some more ****.

Kimi has driven excellently the whole season so far, with less mistakes than MS. I admit that, of course. However, he is the one who obviously profited most from new points system as he most often finishes in second place.

Hrvoje

[gerry nassar]

Originally posted by Vrba


Kimi has driven excellently the whole season so far, with less mistakes than MS. I admit that, of course. However, he is the one who obviously profited most from new points system as he most often finishes in second place.

Hrvoje

I wasnt taking a pot shot at you in particular just more generally

He has profited more than MS from the new points system sure (As 2nd places in particular give you the most gain and he has a heap of them) but it has also helped MS and will continue to help both drivers stay within reach of each other.

Still Kimi has been driving brilliantly and MS has returned to his old form - so I hope we continue witnessing a good fight between the two for the rest of the season and in the next few years.

[Vrba]

Originally posted by gerry nassar


I wasnt taking a pot shot at you in particular just more generally

He has profited more than MS from the new points system sure (As 2nd places in particular give you the most gain and he has a heap of them) but it has also helped MS and will continue to help both drivers stay within reach of each other.

Still Kimi has been driving brilliantly and MS has returned to his old form - so I hope we continue witnessing a good fight between the two for the rest of the season and in the next few years.

I agree completely

Hrvoje

[Mila]

if Hakkinen, the family man, was concerned enough about his health to quit F1, then why enter a rally?

yes, he was frustrated with his Mclaren breaking too often; I think that he (secretly) lost some faith in the team. but aside from the safety issue, I suspect that he was more fed up with the travel and pr demands.

[Mox]

You really want to see Mika back? (I know I do)

Offer him seat 1B !;)


Edit: Oh - hey ... I forgot ... look at the bright side. Maybe this will give DC a couple of extra seasons to claim he will be champ

[ERD1]

I expected someone to bring in the Thatcher-like Mrs Hak by now. Was her name Erja? She looked like a force to be reckoned with and one not to be amused by any such suggestions. Hak was probably on the end of his leash with the local rallying....or have I got this completely wrong. Cheers.

[Hakk]

Originally posted by Mila
if Hakkinen, the family man, was concerned enough about his health to quit F1, then why enter a rally?

yes, he was frustrated with his Mclaren breaking too often; I think that he (secretly) lost some faith in the team. but aside from the safety issue, I suspect that he was more fed up with the travel and pr demands.

The risks of getting hurt in that rally is much much lower than getting hurt in F1. It's a slightly different thing to drive 120km/h with a roof on top of you than driving +300km/h without a roof.

[HSJ]

Originally posted by Vrba


No, he needed rules to be changed :-)

Hrvoje

Ouch!

On the other hand the rules are the same for everybody... Also, KR's average finishing position is higher than anyone else's, so...

[LB_13]

Mika Hakkinen please come back

[D. Heimgartner]

1B!

On that note, how would Mika Hakkinen cope with the MS-Ferrari. I've heard that MS likes a very harshly sprung car; is Mika similar in that regard, or would he be at a large disadvante in that his driving style wouldn't suit the Ferrari? Personally I would love to see Schumacher extend the invitation to his favorite Finn (the one who he repeatedly chopped, including at 300km/h at Spa). If Mika could come to terms with the car, I think they would have very competitive battles. I'd think that in 2004, MS would outqualify and outpoint MH; but in 2005 and 2006, MH would be equal to MS--and this would dispel the myth of Schumacher to some degree. It would, however, also raise many people's opinion of the 5xWDC, including mine.

[Jordan191]

Originally posted by D. Heimgartner
1B!

On that note, how would Mika Hakkinen cope with the MS-Ferrari. I've heard that MS likes a very harshly sprung car; is Mika similar in that regard, or would he be at a large disadvante in that his driving style wouldn't suit the Ferrari? Personally I would love to see Schumacher extend the invitation to his favorite Finn (the one who he repeatedly chopped, including at 300km/h at Spa). If Mika could come to terms with the car, I think they would have very competitive battles. I'd think that in 2004, MS would outqualify and outpoint MH; but in 2005 and 2006, MH would be equal to MS--and this would dispel the myth of Schumacher to some degree. It would, however, also raise many people's opinion of the 5xWDC, including mine.

nice dig at the chop AGAIN.

get that record fixed it's skipping.

[nneads]

If Mika was to stop smoking and lose the 20+ pounds he has put on, then I might take the possiblitly of his return more serioursly.

[Oho]

Originally posted by nneads
If Mika was to stop smoking and lose the 20+ pounds he has put on, then I might take the possiblitly of his return more serioursly.

Ave !!

Not that he is entertaining an idea of comeback, I am sure he isn't, but he seemed quite fit in the photos taken of him during Monaco this year, and I really dont think he smokes regularly, Erja would have none of that. Actually rather than gained weight I think the oppsoite is quite possible as he certainly is not excercising his muscle fittness so he might have lost quite a bit of muscle tissue.

- Oho -

[D. Heimgartner]

Jordan191, you do acknowledge that rather blatant, and potentially catastrophic "CHOP" during the closing laps of the 2000 GP of Belgium? Now this thread isn't about chops or tenderloins...but let's not forget the past, or, as some say, we will be damned to repeat it.