77 replies to this topic

[javipon]

According Brazilian press F.Alonso's Renault made tricks, because it is impossible that with a car with smaller power ( less than 50 hp) was as quick as Shumacher in the classification, but slower on the beginning of the race, and quickest at the end of the race.


Brazil is one of the countries with bigger tradition and knowledge on F1, however today they have demonstrated to ignore a little, how it works F1.
Or maybe they are nervous when seeing as R.Barrichello, with one of the best cars of F1, behind a youth Spanish pilot 21 years old with a car that seems diesel.

Dear friends journalists of O GLOBO and LANCE, don't worry Brazilian friends, Fernando Alonso's Renault didn't make tricks and didnt' refueling between the classification and the race, he is simply a great pilot, in a car that seems diesel and that doesn't run a lot, but it takes the curves like any other one.

Maybe you should question you because the Brazilian pilots with big cars don't run enough, it is not necessary to fool to Brazilian people.

What do you think of this?

[312 PB]

alonso ahead of barrichello on points table

[Ghostrider]

Brasilian press sure have a tendency for conspiracy theories. They watch too much X-files I guess.

[Vagabond]

Why not to quote exactly what 'Brazilian press' wrote before unleashing your sarcasm on them?
That might be helpful to us who experience some difficulties reading Portugese.

[Earthling]

Then again Briatore's team has been accused of cheating in the past decade.

[garbo]

Whatever happened to the rear cover lifting through the corners and flattening out on the straghts issue a few races back? It certainly didn't look legal but I didn't hear what happened about it after that?

[CLX]

Yay, if you haven't had enough fun bashing our drivers, bash our press!

[Vagabond]

Originally posted by CLX
Yay, if you haven't had enough fun bashing our drivers, bash our press!

Your football team is next

[Ross Stonefeld]

Id comment, but I dont even know what the original post says

[zengiman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by garbo
Whatever happened to the rear cover lifting through the corners and flattening out on the straghts issue a few races back? It certainly didn't look legal but I didn't hear what happened about it after that? [/QUO


They banned it.

[Vagabond]

Wolbo
Here comes finally something to discuss. Briatore back into business

[MaxScelerate]

Wolbo -> Cool article, nice find...

There is no magic in Formula 1 and so presumably it will not be long before someone comes up with an answer...

I guess that pretty much sums it up, no?

[kismet]

Renault - the only top team to do any meaningful setup work on dry in Canada

[Ross Stonefeld]

Newsflash:Renault have been fast all year

[zengiman]

I tell you here and now: from now on Renault will be the second fastest car at every track. And on some the fastest. Bye bye Maclaren, bye bye Williams.

BTW did you look at testing this week?

[wegmann]

Originally posted by zengiman

Originally posted by garbo
Whatever happened to the rear cover lifting through the corners and flattening out on the straghts issue a few races back? It certainly didn't look legal but I didn't hear what happened about it after that?

They banned it.

Yes, they were asked to tighten it down, but other teams seemed to conclude that it didn't really contribute much either way. It was probably even a surprise to the Renault team themselves.

And besides, the car has continued to be quite competitive since Malaysia.

[CLX]

Originally posted by Vagabond

Your football team is next

Having played how they played yesterday, they deserve it!

[Menace]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Newsflash:Renault have been fast all year

Indeed.

[fast sonic]

Brazilian press is very critical about their own drivers, specially Barrichello. It's like Sweden press, when they compare tennis today playes, like Greg Norman and Enqvist, with Bjorn Borg.

About the soccer match, it was terrible!

[wawawa]

Originally posted by Wolbo
They are not the only ones to wonder where Renault got their speed from in Montreal.

I'm not sure I understand what all the fuss is about in that article.

1) Alonso qualified on new tyres, which have extra grip for their first hotlap. This is why even everyone sets faster Qualifying laps as compared to initial race laps, despite having more fuel on board. In the race, this doesn't quite work because even if someone gets new tyres at a pitstop, they're pushing like crazy on the oulap (which, obviously, is a lot slower than a flying lap). I remember in Monaco when JPM came out after his final pitstop and was pushing to prevent KR from building a large lead, he set a fastest (middle?) sector on his outlap illustrating the point about the new tyres.

2) Just before his second pitstop - when Alonso set his fastest race lap (faster than his qual lap) - he was on fumes and his tyres were almost slicks (he didn't change tyres at his first pitstop). The Renault seems to be able to get more from old tyres than Williams do, so its not very surprising that Alonso was so fast. Of course, it helps that he also happens to be a bloody quick driver ;)

[MaxScelerate]

Originally posted by wawawa
I'm not sure I understand what all the fuss is about in that article.

There is no fuss, that's all.. It mostly states that Renault has found a way to be quick (without even hinting at any possible way, or at any possible cheat) and that the other teams will try their most to find out how and copy it as much as they could.

Since there is no magic in F1, find out they will...

[Thanatos]

Could it be something to do with a good set of pads lasting the race distance for the renaults?

Its good to see a new team coming to the front, shame they're gonna scrap the engine.

[Vagabond]

Originally posted by CLX

Having played how they played yesterday, they deserve it!

So I've been spot on Didn't hear nothing about yesterday

[servellen]

The only trick they ran was low downforce. Fst in corners, mega grip but slow on striaghts as you could see when Montoya passed him, and he was unable ot try and pass in return.

[917k]

Is everyone on this thread Brazilian,or what?

Am i the only one who doesn't have a clue what ''making tricks'' is?

My assumption is cheating,but that's only a guess.

[Vagabond]

'Making tricks' is a standard term among dog owners. Means your dog can do something that you neighbor's dog cannot.

[Redneck Ferrari]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Newsflash:Renault have been fast all year

Just think how fast they'd be with Jeff Gordon behind the wheel (if they could afford him). He blew off Alonso the only time they raced against each other by .4 sec at the Michelin ROC. Matter of fact they should hire Heidfeld, he was equal to Gordon.

And it was a fair test as both drivers had no experience in AWD rally cars. Fact is one is just faster than the other!

[Todd]

What they said about the best time being before the 2nd pitstop points to the idea that they are running the car well under the weight regulation. The car ways more than 600 kgs during qualifying, as it has full tanks. Before each of its pitstops, it ways much less than 600 kgs. On the last pitstop, more fuel is added than is needed to go the race distance. That leaves enough fuel to serve as ballast in post race inspection. The new rules really reward this form of cheating. Renault could carry more fuel in qualifying without being as heavy or heavier than their competitors. Just a theory.

[Redneck Ferrari]

Originally posted by Todd
What they said about the best time being before the 2nd pitstop points to the idea that they are running the car well under the weight regulation. The car ways more than 600 kgs during qualifying, as it has full tanks. Before each of its pitstops, it ways much less than 600 kgs. On the last pitstop, more fuel is added than is needed to go the race distance. That leaves enough fuel to serve as ballast in post race inspection. The new rules really reward this form of cheating. Renault could carry more fuel in qualifying without being as heavy or heavier than their competitors. Just a theory.

A very good one
I wouldn't trust Flav as far as I could throw him

[Renault4ever]

Originally posted by Todd
What they said about the best time being before the 2nd pitstop points to the idea that they are running the car well under the weight regulation. The car ways more than 600 kgs during qualifying, as it has full tanks. Before each of its pitstops, it ways much less than 600 kgs. On the last pitstop, more fuel is added than is needed to go the race distance. That leaves enough fuel to serve as ballast in post race inspection. The new rules really reward this form of cheating. Renault could carry more fuel in qualifying without being as heavy or heavier than their competitors. Just a theory.

So you don't think the other Piranha's would pull the same stunt?

[FordFan]

If they are running massively underweight, then how do you explain that Alonso's second stop was the quickest of the race? If they had to put 'ballast' fuel in, you'd expect the stop in question to be at least longer than the first stop - because they need time to get the extra fuel in. That stop was quicker than anyone else's.

[wawawa]

Originally posted by FordFan
If they are running massively underweight, then how do you explain that Alonso's second stop was the quickest of the race? If they had to put 'ballast' fuel in, you'd expect the stop in question to be at least longer than the first stop - because they need time to get the extra fuel in. That stop was quicker than anyone else's.

Oh, there's another conspiracy to take care of that - a sort of rerun of Benetton '94. Interested in hearing it?;)

[Renault4ever]

Originally posted by FordFan
If they are running massively underweight, then how do you explain that Alonso's second stop was the quickest of the race? If they had to put 'ballast' fuel in, you'd expect the stop in question to be at least longer than the first stop - because they need time to get the extra fuel in. That stop was quicker than anyone else's.

Good point FordFan. I guess the conspiracy theorists will just have to accept the fact that humble proletarian Renault is now just as fast as the Ferrari/BMW/Mercedes etablishment. Stick it up 'em Renault!

[Todd]

Originally posted by FordFan
If they are running massively underweight, then how do you explain that Alonso's second stop was the quickest of the race? If they had to put 'ballast' fuel in, you'd expect the stop in question to be at least longer than the first stop - because they need time to get the extra fuel in. That stop was quicker than anyone else's.

It was also by far the latest pitstop, wasn't it?

[Xig]

What I think is the same principle that goes so well in science...
Belive the facts. The facts are the only thing to trust. They do exist either we accept them or not...

Sometimes we try to explain a fact with certain rule that is well established, and we just end saying: 'is not possible!'... when it should be the other way around...

As for FA and his speed... I've seen him drive without mistakes... he is fast... and his car does a good use of the michelins... that are the facts I have...


BTW I'm not FA fan...

[JForce]

There is a far simpler answer.

Renault have run the best marketing campaign of recent years, convincing everyone they are down on power.

I say bullshit. It may not be a Ferrari or a BMW, but there's no way its 50-70hp down.

I'd believe 10.

[Bex37]

MS's Ferrari was holding up Ralf and Juan Pablo. If MS had not been impeding the pace, Alonso would not have been seen for dust.

The Michelins were the best tyre during the race in Montreal.

[dan2k]

Since Alonso is the next 'Schumacher', its very Schumacher-like to cheat.
Alonso is progressing along nicely...

[Renault4ever]

Originally posted by JForce
There is a far simpler answer.

Renault have run the best marketing campaign of recent years, convincing everyone they are down on power.

I say bullshit. It may not be a Ferrari or a BMW, but there's no way its 50-70hp down.

I'd believe 10.

Can you please enlighten me JForce? I don't understand why convincing everyone that your engine is less powerful than the competition is good PR. Unless it's part of some kind of ruse to lull Ferrari, BMW and Mercedes into a false sense of security so Renault can suddenly pounce from behind and carry off the championship.

I agree with you that the RS23 is probably not as far down on horsepower as some would have us believe, the benefits of the low centre of gravity, low fuel consumption and their very close association with Michelin could explain why Renault are quick despite being somewhat down on power. My quess is that they are about 30 hp down.

The following thread helps explain why Renault have decided to drop this engine architecture for next year:

http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=58227

[MortenF1]

Originally posted by servellen
The only trick they ran was low downforce. Fst in corners, mega grip but slow on striaghts as you could see when Montoya passed him, and he was unable ot try and pass in return.

: I'm sure you mean MORE downforce than the others.....?

Surely the inspections in parc ferme' are as thorough as to check if a car indeed is underweight on empty tanks?

[Alonsoid]

Originally posted by dan2k
Since Alonso is the next 'Schumacher', its very Schumacher-like to cheat.
Alonso is progressing along nicely...

"if" Renault rigs the car how can Alonso be accused of cheating? I guess you are a JPM fan and your comments are as brainless as some of his moves.

[balaclava]

The Renault is fast? OMG WHAT A BUNCH OF CHEATERS!!!!11

[ffiloseta]

My 0.02US$:

Was he really that fast?

Or was the purpotedly crippled Ferrari in the lead slowing down everybody else?

The Ferrari was going a tad slow if you ask me, I wonder if the accusations against Ralf not attacking his brother have some basis. But then again, Juancito didn't even try to attack his teammate, so maybe it really was they didn't have the car for the deed. Nevertheles, the front three were lapping at a speed below their previous performance. And this is why Fernando got to catch them.

Anyway, the Renault engine guys seem to have nailed their curse. So much that there is talk of Renault trying to hold on on Gascoyne.

There

[servellen]

Originally posted by race addicted


: I'm sure you mean MORE downforce than the others.....?

Surely the inspections in parc ferme' are as thorough as to check if a car indeed is underweight on empty tanks?

Indeed, i was in a hurry, i meant more downforce than the others.

[Amir_S]

Originally posted by Todd
What they said about the best time being before the 2nd pitstop points to the idea that they are running the car well under the weight regulation. The car ways more than 600 kgs during qualifying, as it has full tanks. Before each of its pitstops, it ways much less than 600 kgs. On the last pitstop, more fuel is added than is needed to go the race distance. That leaves enough fuel to serve as ballast in post race inspection. The new rules really reward this form of cheating. Renault could carry more fuel in qualifying without being as heavy or heavier than their competitors. Just a theory.

Interesting theory Todd. Hadn't thought about that at all.

[maclaren]

Originally posted by javipon
According Brazilian press F.Alonso's Renault made tricks, because it is impossible that with a car with smaller power ( less than 50 hp) was as quick as Shumacher in the classification, but slower on the beginning of the race, and quickest at the end of the race.

The press must be really dumb if this is true. Renault was running the softer Michelin compounds than other top teams as they had time to test in friday. Alonso's first stint was long so he had to conserve tyres and carry fuel. It's no surprise he was faster in the end .....

[maclaren]

Originally posted by Todd
What they said about the best time being before the 2nd pitstop points to the idea that they are running the car well under the weight regulation. The car ways more than 600 kgs during qualifying, as it has full tanks. Before each of its pitstops, it ways much less than 600 kgs. On the last pitstop, more fuel is added than is needed to go the race distance. That leaves enough fuel to serve as ballast in post race inspection. The new rules really reward this form of cheating. Renault could carry more fuel in qualifying without being as heavy or heavier than their competitors. Just a theory.

FIA must be really dumb if there is this kind of cheating. Besides, this conficts with the fact Alonso was fastest in last stint. Surely he would have been faster when running underweight!

[SeanValen]

Originally posted by maclaren

The press must be really dumb if this is true. Renault was running the softer Michelin compounds than other top teams as they had time to test in friday. Alonso's first stint was long so he had to conserve tyres and carry fuel. It's no surprise he was faster in the end .....

Lets also never forget, whatever the package, if you see the driver on the edge, he's getting the alot of it, finding that edge, the limits, whatever equipment he has, like Schuey at Spa 2002, you see someone fighting with the car, getting that speed, I think your way of explaining his performance means there's nothing special about drivers like Alonso and Michael, if Kimi was in that Renault doing a similar performance, would you have just talked about the tyre side elements? Explain the drivers part in the performance, your opinion, and everyone else will have their opinion

[Renault4ever]

A lot of you guys seem to have a lot of trouble coming to terms with the fact that a Renault can be fast, just plain fast.

Earlier in the year we heard all the rubbish about Renault's strong qualifying performances being due to running on fumes. Time and time again, this turned out to be nonsence.

And now you are accusing them of cheating by running underweight. I expect that will also turn out to be completely unfounded sour grapes. And besides, if there is a loop hole in the rules, allowing fuel load ballast trickery, you're very naive if you don't think Ferrari, Maclaren and Williams would be up to the same tricks. It's a level playing field.

[nicholasc]

Renaults engine may well be down on power in the race and it's well known that this is due to reliability issues, but that doesn't mean they can't turn the wick up for one quick lap on Saturday afternoon. If they know how it usually fails then they may be able to monitor this parameter closely enough to give the driver a few extra laps at full pace on Sunday too. Maybe this is why Alonso was waving his fist in the air during the last stint - he knew he had the fastest car but not the effective setup.
I'd be chucking the wide angle too if an engineer told me he could give me the pace of Renault qualifying for the whole race....