It's been my understanding that when MS was at Benetton,the team revolved around him, much to Johnny Herbert's dismay. The car was pretty much designed around the way MS drove and every driver paired with him commented that it was always being on knife's edge. When Schumacher signed for Ferrari and Benetton signed up Jean Alesi and Gerhard Berger, they tried to drive the cars the way MS had them set up and found it very difficult.
I've been trying to find articles or quotes to support that the Bennetton was pretty much built around Schumacher's driving style, if that was truly the case.
Help? Thanks!
Warren
Schumacher at Benetton
Started by
WGD706
, Jun 26 2003 01:51
8 replies to this topic
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#2
Lotus23
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Posted 26 June 2003 - 02:09
Warren, someone better-informed than I will have to answer your query, but I think we all know of instances where one top-level chauffeur found it difficult, if not impossible, to drive a car dialed in to the complete satisfaction of another T-LC.
#3
Ray Bell
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Posted 26 June 2003 - 02:18
If it helps, the commentary on TV always implied that this was the case... Martin Brundle particularly, as I recall.
#4
MarkWRX
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Posted 26 June 2003 - 02:20
I believe Steve Matchet, in one of his books, discusses that also. No matter how you feel about Michael Schumacher, he knows how to build a team around him.
Mark
Mark
#5
SpeakerGuru
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Posted 26 June 2003 - 03:50
I beleive it was the '94 beneton which was the trickiest of the bunch to handle. But that wouldn't have been on Johnny's watch, would it? I don't recall much being said about the B195 or B196 (chassis which supposedly would have been "built for" MS) in that respect.
I have heard Rory Byrne comment a number of times over the years that he does not design a car specifically for a given driver. He always states that he aims to design & build a car that is "right"; one that is balanced correctly, period. He seemed bemsed that people think he would design a car specailly tailored for one man, even stating that it would be far more difficult to achieve.
If anything, other drivers have had a problem coming to grips with MS' specifc setup - Alesi (again, IIRC - may have been Berger) said the he tried the Benneton with MS' setup and found it incredibly difficult to drive fast.
I have heard Rory Byrne comment a number of times over the years that he does not design a car specifically for a given driver. He always states that he aims to design & build a car that is "right"; one that is balanced correctly, period. He seemed bemsed that people think he would design a car specailly tailored for one man, even stating that it would be far more difficult to achieve.
If anything, other drivers have had a problem coming to grips with MS' specifc setup - Alesi (again, IIRC - may have been Berger) said the he tried the Benneton with MS' setup and found it incredibly difficult to drive fast.
#6
Frank de Jong
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Posted 26 June 2003 - 06:37
I think Jos Verstappen and JJ Lehto found it a very difficult car to drive.
#7
Peter Morley
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Posted 26 June 2003 - 06:58
I was told that when Herbert first drove the Benetton he went quicker than Schumacher.
From then on Herbert was not allowed access to Schumacher's telemetry, but Schumacher had access to Herbert's.
It is often reported that Schumacher likes a car that is very responsive at the front (like a Go-Kart) and not bothered about the rear, a car like that would certainly not suit a lot of drivers.
Whatever Rory says, given they only had 1 driver who stayed a long time then surely the car would at least end up favouring that driver's style.
From then on Herbert was not allowed access to Schumacher's telemetry, but Schumacher had access to Herbert's.
It is often reported that Schumacher likes a car that is very responsive at the front (like a Go-Kart) and not bothered about the rear, a car like that would certainly not suit a lot of drivers.
Whatever Rory says, given they only had 1 driver who stayed a long time then surely the car would at least end up favouring that driver's style.
#8
Maldwyn
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Posted 26 June 2003 - 07:32
A similar tale was told after Irvine outqualified MS in their first race together. Eddie was told to relax in Dublin while Michael pounded round Fiorano. Makes sense when you have so much invested in the #1.Originally posted by Peter Morley
I was told that when Herbert first drove the Benetton he went quicker than Schumacher.
From then on Herbert was not allowed access to Schumacher's telemetry, but Schumacher had access to Herbert's.
#9
ianm1808
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Posted 27 June 2003 - 12:39
Taken from JH's website and reproduced from F1Racing's August 1997 issue..
Briatore and Benetton in 1995
Herbert knows exactly how that feels. He looks back on 1995 with a certain degree of resentment.:
"I'm a bit bitter towards Flavio because he said there would be a two car test team at Benetton and there never was. It was unfair that he expected me to turn up on Sunday and win a race.
"I used to waste days going to tests. At first, Michael did two days and I did two, then it was three and one and sometimes I was down to half a day. I thing the longest test I did all year was two days on Silverstone South. Doing a race distance. Great. I felt like Taki Inoue or someone. I think that's how it looked sometimes too, such as Hungary when the gap was two and a half seconds. I mean, that's just bloody ridiculous. In the end, it wore me down. In future, I'll get it on paper."
The dawning realisation takes a while. You mean to say that here was a Grand Prix driver with a leading team who didn't have something as fundamental written into a contract? It says a lot about Herbert's nature. Some would call it naivety - but to Johnny, Briatore said it so he took it at face value. Still, what were his agents, the International Management Group (IMG) up to?
"Yeah, well, maybe you might say it could have been put in through their experience. I wouldn't have thought of it but maybe they could and should have done. I relied on Flavio to do it, which was a silly move."
And then, of course, there was the business of the telemetry, with Herbert not permitted access to Schumacher's data.
"I think that only started because in Brazil I qualified fourth, just behind him. We went straight to Argentina and it all started there. He came up to me and said: 'This thing of the data. There's probably things that you do special which you don't want me to see, and there's things I do that I don't want you to see, so has Ross [Brawn] spoken to you about changing it?
"I understand it from Michael's point of view. I think what he does is how a racing driver needs to be - very selfish. He doesn't give the other guy a chance to get close to him.
"But Flavio should have told him it was a team effort. My engineer would sometimes call up his data and I'd be looking at it out of the corner of my eye while he was on the other side of the desk. Pathetic really. But he never left the room. Even if you stayed there till 9.30 at night he'd still be there. Later on in the season I could see the data but by then I wasn't a threat."
21st November 1996 issue of Autosport..
It says much for Herbert that he was brave enough to grab the chance of joining Schumacher in 1995, rather than shying away from the comparison. But once he had shown his mettle by qualifying only half a second away in Brazil, and then run the German to within a 1000th on the Friday in Argentina, he had sounded sufficient alarm bells. Only idiots really believed that the subsequent gaps between them - a gaping three seconds just the following day - were the natural order of things.
The relationship with Briatore was almost non-existent, and insiders suggested that Flav was less than wholly pleased when Herbert's second place in Spain saved his bacon, and even less so when victory at Silverstone fulfilled a performance clause in his contract which prevented him being replaced.
'The whole problem in 1995 wasn't just Flavio, to be fair,' said Johnny. 'It was the car. The B195 was just horrible. Ask Gerhard Berger!'
Berger hated everything about the B195 on the occasions upon which he tested it before the B196 was ready. 'I just couldn't drive the B195,' he admitted. 'I hated everything about it, it was just so tricky.' Because it was Gerhard saying it this time, people took notice.
'The only meaningful test that I had with Benetton was at Silverstone just before the British GP,' Herbert mused. 'And that was on the South Circuit! That wasn't really a lot of use. Michael tested on the GP circuit, and I had to do my running on the small track…'
Herbert is still the most competitive team mate Schumacher has had, and the only partner who has won races. And if you examine how his lap times stack up with other recognised 'quick' drivers, such as Mika Häkkinen in their happy-go-lucky Lotus days or Frentzen at Sauber, there are underlying indications of a driver who can turn it on to a very high level.
Briatore and Benetton in 1995
Herbert knows exactly how that feels. He looks back on 1995 with a certain degree of resentment.:
"I'm a bit bitter towards Flavio because he said there would be a two car test team at Benetton and there never was. It was unfair that he expected me to turn up on Sunday and win a race.
"I used to waste days going to tests. At first, Michael did two days and I did two, then it was three and one and sometimes I was down to half a day. I thing the longest test I did all year was two days on Silverstone South. Doing a race distance. Great. I felt like Taki Inoue or someone. I think that's how it looked sometimes too, such as Hungary when the gap was two and a half seconds. I mean, that's just bloody ridiculous. In the end, it wore me down. In future, I'll get it on paper."
The dawning realisation takes a while. You mean to say that here was a Grand Prix driver with a leading team who didn't have something as fundamental written into a contract? It says a lot about Herbert's nature. Some would call it naivety - but to Johnny, Briatore said it so he took it at face value. Still, what were his agents, the International Management Group (IMG) up to?
"Yeah, well, maybe you might say it could have been put in through their experience. I wouldn't have thought of it but maybe they could and should have done. I relied on Flavio to do it, which was a silly move."
And then, of course, there was the business of the telemetry, with Herbert not permitted access to Schumacher's data.
"I think that only started because in Brazil I qualified fourth, just behind him. We went straight to Argentina and it all started there. He came up to me and said: 'This thing of the data. There's probably things that you do special which you don't want me to see, and there's things I do that I don't want you to see, so has Ross [Brawn] spoken to you about changing it?
"I understand it from Michael's point of view. I think what he does is how a racing driver needs to be - very selfish. He doesn't give the other guy a chance to get close to him.
"But Flavio should have told him it was a team effort. My engineer would sometimes call up his data and I'd be looking at it out of the corner of my eye while he was on the other side of the desk. Pathetic really. But he never left the room. Even if you stayed there till 9.30 at night he'd still be there. Later on in the season I could see the data but by then I wasn't a threat."
21st November 1996 issue of Autosport..
It says much for Herbert that he was brave enough to grab the chance of joining Schumacher in 1995, rather than shying away from the comparison. But once he had shown his mettle by qualifying only half a second away in Brazil, and then run the German to within a 1000th on the Friday in Argentina, he had sounded sufficient alarm bells. Only idiots really believed that the subsequent gaps between them - a gaping three seconds just the following day - were the natural order of things.
The relationship with Briatore was almost non-existent, and insiders suggested that Flav was less than wholly pleased when Herbert's second place in Spain saved his bacon, and even less so when victory at Silverstone fulfilled a performance clause in his contract which prevented him being replaced.
'The whole problem in 1995 wasn't just Flavio, to be fair,' said Johnny. 'It was the car. The B195 was just horrible. Ask Gerhard Berger!'
Berger hated everything about the B195 on the occasions upon which he tested it before the B196 was ready. 'I just couldn't drive the B195,' he admitted. 'I hated everything about it, it was just so tricky.' Because it was Gerhard saying it this time, people took notice.
'The only meaningful test that I had with Benetton was at Silverstone just before the British GP,' Herbert mused. 'And that was on the South Circuit! That wasn't really a lot of use. Michael tested on the GP circuit, and I had to do my running on the small track…'
Herbert is still the most competitive team mate Schumacher has had, and the only partner who has won races. And if you examine how his lap times stack up with other recognised 'quick' drivers, such as Mika Häkkinen in their happy-go-lucky Lotus days or Frentzen at Sauber, there are underlying indications of a driver who can turn it on to a very high level.
