42 replies to this topic

[BorderReiver]

Hello Everyone

Today I read that there were onle ever 17 ERA's built. Is this true? I found it quite hard to beleive at the time (but I'm not to hot on my pre-war racing, something I am trying to improve on).

If so, it should be fairly easy to chart a history of each car. Does anyone have such a history to hand? Or could they help with the creating of one.

As I say, I know very little about ERA as a marque, or their history, but I am very keen to learn. Any information would be extremely gratefully received.

[Vitesse2]

Perfectly true, if you ignore the E and G types. There is a sumptuous (and very expensive) book on ERA by David Weguelin. More affordable is JRW Barker's "ERA A Concise History", which charts the early history of all the ERAs, chassis by chassis. Of those 17, 16 still exist - the missing one is R3B, which was destroyed in the fatal crash of Marcel Lehoux at Deauville in 1936.

There were three E types, although the third chassis was never completed and was used to rebuild the burnt-out c/n GP1.

The G type was an F2 car, later sold to Bristol Cars and used as the basis of the first Bristol 450 sports car.

A replica ERA, AJM1, was built in the 1980s.

So 17 + 2 or 3 + 1 + (1)

[BorderReiver]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Perfectly true, if you ignore the E and G types. There is a sumptuous (and very expensive) book on ERA by David Weguelin. More affordable is JRW Barker's "ERA A Concise History", which charts the early history of all the ERAs, chassis by chassis. Of those 17, 16 still exist - the missing one is R3B, which was destroyed in the fatal crash of Marcel Lehoux at Deauville in 1936.

There were three E types, although the third chassis was never completed and was used to rebuild the burnt-out c/n GP1.

The G type was an F2 car, later sold to Bristol Cars and used as the basis of the first Bristol 450 sports car.

A replica ERA, AJM1, was built in the 1980s.

So 17 + 2 or 3 + 1 + (1)

If you don't mind me asking who was Marcel Lehoux and what were the circumstances behind his death?

It is a name I have never registered before.

Oh and thanks for an excellen and informative answer Vitesse.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by BorderReiver
Hello Everyone

Today I read that there were onle ever 17 ERA's built. Is this true? I found it quite hard to beleive at the time (but I'm not to hot on my pre-war racing, something I am trying to improve on).

If so, it should be fairly easy to chart a history of each car. Does anyone have such a history to hand? Or could they help with the creating of one.

As I say, I know very little about ERA as a marque, or their history, but I am very keen to learn. Any information would be extremely gratefully received.

David Weguelin's probably the world expert on ERA histories - his (rare and expensive) History of English Racing Automobiles Limited covers the "front-line" career of the cars (1933-51) and their historic outings up to about 1980 in extreme detail.

There's also a much smaller "concise history of ERA" - the author escapes me at the moment

Most of the subsequent history of the cars is pretty well known, they're out there racing more than most moderns ;)

For those of us who can't stretch to Weguelin (including me at the moment -- it'll set you back about 200 quid these days), there's enough material to be going on with on the genesis and front-line career of ERA in Vol 1 of DCN's "BRM". The Georgano "Encyclopedia of Motor Sport" has a fair bit to say too, as does David Venables' "The Racing Fifteen Hundreds". For the post-WW2 but non-historic career of the cars, I'd suggest DCN's "Autocourse History of the Grand Prix Car 1945-65", Mike Lawrence's "Grand Prix Cars 1945-65", and Chris Mason's "Uphill Racers" for what happened on the hills.

Anything on Dick Seaman, Prince Bira, Prince Chula or Raymond Mays will give you good background too.

As far as documented histories go, I doubt there's a set of cars more thoroughly covered!

[BorderReiver]

Originally posted by petefenelon

As far as documented histories go, I doubt there's a set of cars more thoroughly covered!

I feel like such a timewaster now.

Sorry everyone.

Ask me anything about Lotus and I can answer, honest, I'm not a complete waste of space ;)

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by BorderReiver


I feel like such a timewaster now.

Sorry everyone.

Ask me anything about Lotus and I can answer, honest, I'm not a complete waste of space ;)

No need to apologise at all - ERA is a fascinating marque and one well worth finding out more about!

Inevitably the older racing cars get the harder it is to easily find information on them - in a world where books and videos about last year are 'old hat' stuff about cars built nearly 70 years ago is inevitably not going to be crowding the shelves of shops and libraries!

[Vitesse2]

Lehoux was a veteran Algerian driver, who joined the ERA works team in 1936 at the age of 48 after a workmanlike career in Grand Prix and Voiturette racing. R3B was built for him and he achieved two second places during 1936. ERAs came with interchangeable engines and at Deauville the normal 1500cc supercharged engine was replaced with a 2-litre version to run as a Formule Libre car. Lehoux was in third place when the leader, Farina, came up to lap him. Farina's Alfa hit the ERA, rolling it twice: Lehoux' car then caught fire and was burnt out. The car was written off, although some parts were salvaged and reused. Lehoux died of his injuries: he is the only driver ever to have died at the wheel of an ERA, although Prince Bira had a close call at Reims in 1939.

[andrewf]

The purists will probably hammer me for this one but let us not forget the rather off ERA Turbo Mini project.

(ducks)

[ensign14]

While talking about ERA literature, the ERA Gold Portfolio published by Brooklands includes a complete reprint of "The Story Of ERA" by John Lloyd, which runs to c. 60 pages including photos and appendices. As well as the usual potpourri of articles, ancient and modern.

[David Beard]

Originally posted by BorderReiver


As I say, I know very little about ERA as a marque, or their history, but I am very keen to learn. Any information would be extremely gratefully received.

I am likewise newly fascinated in the ERA and on a learning curve...hence I too started an ERA thread awhile back which might be of interest, Border Reiver

Another ERA thread

[David McKinney]

The individual histories are, as already mentioned, very well documented. I haven’t time to do more at the moment than list the last known owners (in no case before 1999, most current)
R1A Jerry Morici
R2A Rodney Smith
R3A Dick Skipworth
R4A Jöst Wildbolz
R1B ?? (Germany)
R2B Narisa Chakrabongse
R3B written off
R4B (later R4C, now R4D) Mac Hulbert
R5B Lady Amabel Lindsay (possibly sold)
R6B Ian Landy
R7B Paul Mullins
R8B/R8C Bruce Spollon
R9B Peter Mann (usually driven by John Ure)
R10B Nick Mason
R11B David Morris
R12B/R12C/R12B David Wenman
R12C ii Bill Morris
R13B not built
R14B Donald Day
AJM1 ?? (raced Zolder last weekend)
GP1 Duncan Ricketts
GP2 Lucy and Narisa Chapman

[Ron Scoma]

I would also add "The Prince and I" by Princess Ceril Birabongse (Bira's wife) as a good overview of the social side of motor racing during that period.
IMHO it is one of the best, most entertaining, books published. Not filled with hard facts and figures but more of an insight into the times.
As a side note ... when I was at university these girls had a table set up with a big sign that read "Support ERA." No one was more excited to meet those ladies. However it soon became apparent why I was usually dateless during that period of my life.
I still have, and cherish, the button I bought from them before they chased me away.

Cheers,

Ron Scoma

[D-Type]

A few questions arising from what's been posted

(1) David's listing has two R12B/C's. Is R12C ii, Bill Morris's car, a clone or is it actually what would have been R13 superstitiously renumbered?

(2) What was the F Type? Clearly it never got built. Was it the proposed sports car?

(3) Wasn't there a good-natured VSCC fuss a few years back about cars that ran with 1.5 litre engines in period being increased to 2 litres to be more competitive in historic racing?

[Vitesse2]

Okay - the easy one first: the F type was a Formula 3 car which never got off the drawing board.

R12C: The original R12C was the car crashed by Bira at Reims in 1939 (see above). It was seriously damaged in this shunt and rebuilt to B specification, probably using the original chassis of R8B, which had been rebuilt as R8C, the original C type (are you following this?) - C type parts were not available due to the imminent war.

The original R12C chassis was not destroyed, however, despite being deemed irrepairable in 1939, and was eventually used as the basis of what is essentially a replica of R12C 'Hanuman' as raced by Bira.

[Steve L]

ERA R7B reappeared at the VSCC Donington meeting last weekend.

It has been restored to its original white body with nickel-plated radiator shell and black chassis livery, and looks fantastic.

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Lehoux' car then caught fire and was burnt out. The car was written off, although some parts were salvaged and reused. Lehoux died of his injuries: he is the only driver ever to have died at the wheel of an ERA, although Prince Bira had a close call at Reims in 1939.

Didn't St John Horsfall die in an ERA, 1949 Silverstone?

[Vitesse2]

Oops - my mistake: must be one of those bits of received wisdom which I've thought I knew were correct and never bothered to check (or maybe I read it in something published pre-1949).

Horsfall was killed when he was thrown out of Peter Bell's R11B. Coincidentally, John Bolster had had a similar experience in the same car at the same circuit earlier in the year in the British GP. He survived, but never raced again.

[David Beard]

How's this?

http://members.madas...son/ERAcars.htm

[David Beard]

The various supercharger configurations on ERAs interest me..Zoller and Roots, sometimes at the front of the engine, sometimes in the cockpit..
This is R4D..I have also seen a picture of a Zoller in this position.


Then there's the ERA Delage, of which I was woefully ignorant until very recently. I have read that the motor has 2 stage supercharging, with one Roots unit at the front and another at the side like the E Type arrangement. But this photo I took at Donington appears to show the second blower at the back like R4D



Can we discuss?

[Roger Clark]

I'll need David Weg's book to contribute.

[fines]

Is it just me or is this installation of a large supercharger right next to your balls a tad frightening...

[VAR1016]

Originally posted by fines
Is it just me or is this installation of a large supercharger right next to your balls a tad frightening...

Agreed, although I suppose that the relevant sizes may be a factor!

PdeRL

[Steve L]

The ERA-Delage had its E-Type spec engine replaced in the 1980s when Patrick Lindsay owned the car.

He had it re-engined with a pretty standard ERA unit as used in the earlier cars, with a single vertical roots supercharger mounted at the front.

The bulge you can see in the bodywork on the right hand side of the photo is where the carburettor used to hang out of the side of the bay when this engine was used.

When Anthony Mayman took the car over, the supercharger was then relocated on its side at the back of the engine, presumably to achieve better weight distribution.

If you are interested, there are articles on the car in the November 1951 issue of Motor Sport and also the September 1985 edition of Classic and Sportscar magazine.

I think Mayman tried a new Zoller blower on R4D for a few races until it ate itself at VSCC Cadwell Park.... :yawn:

[Geoff E]

There is also this page:- http://www.kolumbus....snellman/c7.htm

I've no idea if it's accurate.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Steve L
I think Mayman tried a new Zoller blower on R4D for a few races until it ate itself at VSCC Cadwell Park.... :yawn:

Yes - and talked of 330bhp, IIRC

[Steve L]

If anyone is interested, I have just been having a browse on eBay and there is a copy of the David Weguelin ERA book for sale - bids at £26.00 at the moment, but still 7 days + to go!

Re ERA power output, it makes me wonder what some of the cars racing today are producing.

I was watching the Seaman trophy at VSCC Donington recently, and Mac Hulbert in the 2 litre R4D (driving very well) was having a real job keeping up with John Ure in the 1.5 litre R9B (also driving extremely well).

It was noticeable that R9B seemed to put its power down better than R4D, but maybe weight (or lack of it) as well as power had something to do with the pace?

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Steve L
.

I think Mayman tried a new Zoller blower on R4D for a few races until it ate itself at VSCC Cadwell Park.... :yawn:

Good heavens...just found a copy of the Wegs book in my den...where did that come from

There is a section on superchargers at the back.
It says R4D was fitted with a "massive experimental Shorrock vane blower mounted in the correct place above the gearbox" The inference is that this was a recent event at the time of writing. So was this the Mayman fitment...a vane blower but not actually a Zoller?

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by fines
Is it just me or is this installation of a large supercharger right next to your balls a tad frightening...

I was just thinking the same thing. Can you imagine having to slot your legs down each side of that thing?

[Frank S]

Ruairidh

quote:Originally posted by fines
Is it just me or is this installation of a large supercharger right next to your balls a tad frightening...


I was just thinking the same thing. Can you imagine having to slot your legs down each side of that thing?

So, where is that Censor when you need it?

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by David Beard

Good heavens...just found a copy of the Wegs book in my den...where did that come from
There is a section on superchargers at the back.
It says R4D was fitted with a "massive experimental Shorrock vane blower mounted in the correct place above the gearbox" The inference is that this was a recent event at the time of writing. So was this the Mayman fitment...a vane blower but not actually a Zoller?

At the time of publication (1980) R4D was still in the Moores estate. It was probably ten years later that Mayman tried the Zoller. His 'other' blower was a Godfrey (which name, I have to confess, is not familiar to me - but might be to everyone else)

[David Beard]

Originally posted by David McKinney

At the time of publication (1980) R4D was still in the Moores estate. It was probably ten years later that Mayman tried the Zoller. His 'other' blower was a Godfrey (which name, I have to confess, is not familiar to me - but might be to everyone else)

After some Googling...the Godfrey seems to be used as a "cabin" blower for heating/air conditioning aircraft cabins. Godfrey
Seems to be of the Roots type.

[Ray Bell]

And pressurising the cabins no doubt...

American drag cars used that type of blower as well.

[Steve L]

Time for a "plug" for the official ERA Club, methinks !

A subscription costs £8.00, and members get one newsletter a year in the Spring which comes in A4 form (photocopied on A3 paper, folded to create the A4 format).

This reviews everything ERA from the past year, and also includes articles and photos from the past. The last edition had 59 pages.

Members also get the chance to attend an annual ERA Club dinner.

Subscriptions are available from: -

Guy Spollon
Secretary & Treasurer
ERA Club
Arden Grange
Tanworth-in-Arden
Solihull
West Midlands
B94 5DZ

Re ERA R4D; the Shorrock blower came from one of the 1950s MG record cars.

After "experimenting" with a brand new Zoller, once this blew I believe Mayman went back to using the supercharger fitted to the car when he bought it.

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Steve L
Time for a "plug" for the official ERA Club, methinks !


Re ERA R4D; the Shorrock blower came from one of the 1950s MG record cars.

After "experimenting" with a brand new Zoller, once this blew I believe Mayman went back to using the supercharger fitted to the car when he bought it.

Thanks for that Steve....the club may well have a new member.

And what of the Arnott supercharger...have any of the cars used them post war? (twin set up on R6B prewar....appears not to be 2 stage, though, if I understand the terminology correctly)

[Don Capps]

Pardon my laziness -- my excuse is that I am up to my eyebrows in another project.... :yawn: -- but which of the ERA cars raced in the USofA? I had the information somewhere, but couldn't find it when I started looking for it. Wasn't R1A at the 1936 Geo. Vanderbilt Cup race?

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Don Capps
Pardon my laziness -- my excuse is that I am up to my eyebrows in another project.... :yawn: -- but which of the ERA cars raced in the USofA? I had the information somewhere, but couldn't find it when I started looking for it. Wasn't R1A at the 1936 Geo. Vanderbilt Cup race?

Yes..came 15th, Hon. Brian Lewis. It only raced twice in 36, the other time (Brooklands) driven by Kay Petre.

[David Beard]

R4A & R8B were there too, Pat Fairfield and Earl Howe, 5th & 13th.

[Don Capps]

The 1947 International Sweepstakes (AKA Indianapolis 500)?

[David Beard]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Don Capps
The 1947 International Sweepstakes (AKA Indianapolis 500)? [/QUOTE

OOh yes. E type GP2, H. L. Brooke didn't qualify because of gearbox trouble. ( I can't keep this up by the way...the book turns into a pumpkin at midnight :( )

[Don Capps]

I knew it was an E Type, but not which one.

Thanks!

[David Beard]

The E type supercharger arrangement....

[David Beard]

More of the E type..

[dbw]

yes..the position of the blower is disturbing...in a miller 91 rear drive the centrifugal supercharger lived horozontally IN the bulkhead!..the half in between the drivers legs also had a miller carb attached.....i'm not sure the drive ratio on an ERA but as a roots it can't turn that fast...the intrepid miller pilot had to look forward to 500 miles with the supercharger turning at a ratio of 5.351 to the engines 7000 rpm.do the math and remember no one had invented ballistic jockstraps yet.