33 replies to this topic

[Fransz]

Why did Pironi have a front wing and Gilles did not. I remember the race but I can't remember what the reason for this was at the time. Was is driver preference or the team trying different strategies?

Please don't turn my legitimate question into a Pironi bashing thread.

[Don Capps]

Originally posted by Fransz
Please don't turn my legitimate question into a Pironi bashing thread.

First of all, this TNF so we leave that sort of thing to others.

Second, apparently the front wing choice was the preference of the individual drivers. However, I think others could elaborate on that.

[masterhit]

I just checked my old copy of the "Formula Villeneuve" video, which shows the last lap of the San Marino 1982 race.

Gilles definitely had a front wing on his car.



Hope that helps Fransz, the footage of the race was quite dark and grainy, so it is hard to make out.

[BorderReiver]

Slightly off-topic, I apologise.

However, that 1982 Ferrari is a bit gorgeous isn't she? Funny how I've never really noticed it before, but if you got rid of all those distracting labels your left with a very good looking machine.

I may have to make some alterations to "BorderReiver's Gorgeous Grand Prix Cars" ranking. . . .

Then again, this could be the motorsport equivalent of "Beer Goggles", or the "Cider Visor". . . .

[man]

Gilles didn't use the front wing during the race while Didier did. Any photos/videos you see of Ferrari no 27 including the silver front wing must be of practice/qualifying.

[Jhope]

Originally posted by masterhit
I just checked my old copy of the "Formula Villeneuve" video, which shows the last lap of the San Marino 1982 race.

Gilles definitely had a front wing on his car.



Hope that helps Fransz, the footage of the race was quite dark and grainy, so it is hard to make out.

No front wing sir.

[masterhit]

I have footage of the race, 1982. He has a front wing. Sorry.

Edit: looks like I am blind! Whoops. Just turned the brightness up, it's the underneath of the car, not a wing. It reaches further forwards then today's car's so I was seeing a wing where there was none.

Thanks to everyone for being patient!

[mikedeering]

masterhit - that photo of Gilles with the front wing looks more like Zolder than Imola to me, although I admit there are no real clear landmarks to identify the circuit!

[Henri Greuter]

It was indeed a matter of personal preference. there are more cases of drivers who used front wings in one race but not in the next one. Brabham's come to mind in particular.
Of course, using ground effects, the grip of the cars was awesome but their balance must have been pretty good too that on occasion they didn't need the trimming at front anymore either.

Think about it, the current generation of F1 cars without front wings, now that would slow them down!



Don't worry Masterhit. We all mess up on occasion and then this forum is great in correcting you in a nice, gentle manner.
You would be surprised to know how many people believe that Gilles used the monaco midwing in Long Beach in 1979 too while he didn't! Jody used it in the race but Gilles used the conventional rear wing. There's a thread on this forum too that certifies this.


And yes, 126C2 was indeed a beauty among all F1 cars.


Henri Greuter

[man]

Mikedeering is right about the photo being taken at the Zolder meeting. The rear wing end plate of the Ferrari's were red at Imola but silver at Zolder. Another indicator is that the section which consists of rows of sponsorship near the skirts. At Zolder it was black where as it was a kind of cream colour at Imola.

[cheesy poofs]

Slightly OT, but what the hell happened to all those 126C '82 chassis....where are they now ?
I know some of them were converted to "B" specification for the early part of 1983, but after that...who knows ?

Can anyone shed some light on this ?

[man]

Originally posted by cheesy poofs
Slightly OT, but what the hell happened to all those 126C '82 chassis....where are they now ?
I know some of them were converted to "B" specification for the early part of 1983, but after that...who knows ?

Can anyone shed some light on this ?

I have been wondering the same thing. As you say some were modified for the 1983 season but I have yet to an original 126 C2 since.

However, I recall seeing tv footage of Goodwood a few years back and and in the corner of the screen I was 60% sure that for a split second I saw a late season no 27 126 C2. It was hard to tell because it wasn't in full focus and it was a frontal angle andthe C2 from the front is quite similar to the "B" spec 1983 car you mentioned. I'm not sure if my eyes were playing tricks but I think I could just about make out the all important rollover bar which is not visable on the B spec car used in 1983 so I live in hope!!! :

[cheesy poofs]

Originally posted by man

I have been wondering the same thing. As you say some were modified for the 1983 season but I have yet to an original 126 C2 since.

Schumacher even tested a 1983 126C2 "B" or 126 C3 a few seasons ago.

In a way, even though the '82 car was to bring them the WCC, it probably evokes terrible memories for the men at Ferrari. Somehow, I'm surprised Enzo Ferrari didn't have all the cars destroyed to erase the pain it brought upon him that season.

[_Hink]

I believe that was Tambay's 126C3 that Schumacher took for a ride.

[Marcel Visbeen]

Schumacher tested the Ferrari 126 C2/B of Patrick Tambay (who was present at the test) at Fiorano in may 1999.

I'm almost sure, since the 126C2 was arguably the first love in my life, I saw one for sale in an advert in Motor Sport in recent years. I think it was at an auction (maybe Coys?) Alas I wasn't able to bid at that time (nor I'm afraid at any other in this lifetime), but it means that there has to be at least one 126 C2 alive!

Some thoughts on the set-up for Imola:
Ferrari was experimenting a lot with wings at that time (remember the special Long Beach-wing the race before?) and struggeling a bit with set up over the weekend. In fact there wasn't much serious competition because of the FISA-FOCA feud. The only real threat came from Renault and they were a lot quicker. Poleman Arnoux was a second quicker than third placed Villeneuve in qualifying and Pironi was another 1.3 sec. behind him. Both had tried a new rear wing on friday but they didn't think much of it and returned to the old one on saturday. Furthermore Pironi had crashed heavilly on friday at Acqua Minerale, destroying his racing chassis. They had a complete new chassis brought in from Maranello on friday-night and this was going to be Pironi's race-car (126 C2/059). To illustrate the setup problems even more Gilles had two unexplanatory punctures during practise. I think that Villeneuve and Pironi just choose different solutions to their problems.
Apart from the absence of a front wing on Villeneuve's car I also noted that he drove without the huge white front brake duckts, which are clearly visible on Pironi's car.

[Fransz]

Originally posted by Marcel Visbeen

Marcel,

Where the hell did you come from? Did you make all that up? That's more information than I was hoping for. How do you know all this?

Thanks!

[man]

Originally posted by Fransz


Marcel,

Where the hell did you come from? Did you make all that up? That's more information than I was hoping for. How do you know all this?

Thanks!

I suspect "Ferrari turbo's" written by Anthony Pritchard. A very informative book covering details of Ferrari between 1981 and 1988.

[Marcel Visbeen]

Originally posted by man


I suspect "Ferrari turbo's" written by Anthony Pritchard. A very informative book covering details of Ferrari between 1981 and 1988.

No, I'm affraid not, but that sounds like a great book. Do you know if it's still available?

In fact, if you must know, most information I got from the San Marino issue of Grand Prix International. Combined with Gilles Vivo by Cesare de Agostini and Villeneuve, a racing legend by Alain de la Plante.

In fact, more recently I ran in to a quote of Pironi during practice, prior to his friday crash (own translation from Dutch): "We are so slow going into the corners that the Renaults can build up a topspeed advantage of 10 km/h on the straights." (quoted from Ulrich Schwabs yearbook)

I also read the small book 126 C2 by Paolo d'Alessio (with many wonderfull pictures, specially for kit-builders) who states that:

"At a private dinner the day before the San Marino GP, the team managers of Ferrari and Renault, which dominated the front rows of the grid, decided on the strategy to be used. To prevent the race from finishing without any cars due to the expected engine faillures, Ferrari and Renault would fight it out for the first few laps and then the positions would remain the same until the checkered flag."

I never heard this before and it's the only source I have that mentions this dinner. Could anybody shed a light on this one? It sounds like a vicious rumour but than again, it was in the middle of the FISA/FOCA battle...

[Bladrian]

Originally posted by Marcel Visbeen



I also read the small book 126 C2 by Paolo d'Alessio (with many wonderfull pictures, specially for kit-builders) who states that:

"At a private dinner the day before the San Marino GP, the team managers of Ferrari and Renault, which dominated the front rows of the grid, decided on the strategy to be used. To prevent the race from finishing without any cars due to the expected engine faillures, Ferrari and Renault would fight it out for the first few laps and then the positions would remain the same until the checkered flag."

I never heard this before and it's the only source I have that mentions this dinner. Could anybody shed a light on this one? It sounds like a vicious rumour but than again, it was in the middle of the FISA/FOCA battle...

Boy - that puts 'team orders' in a whole new perspective .....

Anyway - wonderful info, Marcel, and thank you very much for digging it up.

[dmj]

Originally posted by Marcel Visbeen

I also read the small book 126 C2 by Paolo d'Alessio (with many wonderfull pictures, specially for kit-builders) who states that:

"At a private dinner the day before the San Marino GP, the team managers of Ferrari and Renault, which dominated the front rows of the grid, decided on the strategy to be used. To prevent the race from finishing without any cars due to the expected engine faillures, Ferrari and Renault would fight it out for the first few laps and then the positions would remain the same until the checkered flag."

I never heard this before and it's the only source I have that mentions this dinner. Could anybody shed a light on this one? It sounds like a vicious rumour but than again, it was in the middle of the FISA/FOCA battle...

It was discussed in this thread: http://www.atlasf1.c...ighlight=pironi

[man]

Originally posted by Marcel Visbeen


No, I'm affraid not, but that sounds like a great book. Do you know if it's still available?

It is certainly out of print now but i'm sure if you do a good search of the net it shouldn't be too hard to find. Some very nice colour photography and race by race updates on the development of the Ferrari turbo program during the 1980's - chassis numbers and all.

[man]

Being the gentleman that I am

http://www.fetchbook...arch=0946627509

[dolomite]

Originally posted by man


I have been wondering the same thing. As you say some were modified for the 1983 season but I have yet to an original 126 C2 since.

However, I recall seeing tv footage of Goodwood a few years back and and in the corner of the screen I was 60% sure that for a split second I saw a late season no 27 126 C2. It was hard to tell because it wasn't in full focus and it was a frontal angle andthe C2 from the front is quite similar to the "B" spec 1983 car you mentioned. I'm not sure if my eyes were playing tricks but I think I could just about make out the all important rollover bar which is not visable on the B spec car used in 1983 so I live in hope!!! :

It would appear that there is at least one car surviving in 1982 form, in the Setton collection in France:

http://www.barchetta...61.126C2.82.htm

[HBoss]

Was Imola's layout in 1982 the same as the one used in 1994?

[fines]

Originally posted by HBoss
Was Imola's layout in 1982 the same as the one used in 1994?

Yes.

[man]

Look at what I found!

http://www.subjectli...i_storia_sm.jpg

However, to me something doesn't look quite right about it. The rear wing mounting looks like that from a 126 C3.

[man]

Sorry.

Obviosly the picture was taken at the same location as dolomite's link. Gives another view though.

[dolomite]

You're right, that does appear to be a 1983 spec rear wing.
The rule changes introduced in 1983 increased the allowed rear wing height from 90 to 100cm.

[Marcel Visbeen]

I do this from memory, but IIRC this is the wing that was on the 126 C3 at its presentation at Silverstone, mid-season 1983. The Ferrari's never ran such a wing in the race. They always had the little side-wings. Another significant thing is the fact that the roll-over bar and the rear wing are black, which (again IIRC) they never where on the C2 in 1982. But it certainly looks like a 126 C2 and as I said earlier, I'm quite possitive there is at least one left, so this must be the one. Be it not completely original.
Does anybody know where it is now?

[Marcel Visbeen]

Excuse me for being a lousy reader, the answer to that last question is of course in dolomite's earlier post...

[dolomite]

They did run without the side-wings in the race at Silverstone (I was there). The low downforce setup allowed too much sliding which overheated the rear tyres on both cars and this was the main factor that allowed Prost to come through and win. Cosequently from Hockenheim onwards the C3s always used the large rear wing with side-wings for maximum downforce.

[maxie]

Originally posted by BorderReiver
Slightly off-topic, I apologise.

However, that 1982 Ferrari is a bit gorgeous isn't she? Funny how I've never really noticed it before, but if you got rid of all those distracting labels your left with a very good looking machine.

OT you may be, but I share the same thought. For some reason I still find the F1 cars of the 1982 season the best looking of them all.

BTW, is 1982 the last season when F1 cars have no front wings?

[Rediscoveryx]

Originally posted by maxie

BTW, is 1982 the last season when F1 cars have no front wings?

Yep - by using ground effects (which was banned for 1983), front wings became less necessary

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by cheesy poofs
Schumacher even tested a 1983 126C2 "B" or 126 C3 a few seasons ago.

Yes, and I think his reaction was just that - one of ':eek:'

Shame that the same [somewhat irritating] bloke hasn't also experenced the pleasures of driving (and I mean driving, not tooling around for a photo-shoot) an example of what the Prancing Horse (or any other marque, for that matter...) would have provided him with for the 50s, 60s or 70s.

There isn't a 'counting-my-blessings-that-I-missed-those-somewhat-more-challenging-and-scary-eras' Smiley, is there...?!

Twinny