76 replies to this topic

[Doug Nye]

Help....????? Concerning the 1968 Howmet TX gas-turbine Coupe cars which ran at Daytona, Sebring, Brands Hatch, Watkins Glen and Le Mans 1968....Is the following nonsense????

"Outright victory was not to be denied the cars, however. Ray Heppenstall is recorded by late American racing historian Al Bochroch as having won two SCCA National events at Huntsville, Alabama, and he then finished 2nd in the Cumberland Nationals and with Dr Dick Thompson won the Marlboro 300-Miles."

Educated advice would be much appreciated.

DCN

[Geoff E]

You may (or may not) have seen this:- http://website.lineo...pete_howmet.htm

It may (or may not) be accurate.

[Dennis Hockenbury]

Similar information on several websites - http://8w.forix.com/...r-turbines.html

[Jeremy Jackson]

In Pete Stowe's booklet on the Howmets (Published 1998), he notes that the only decent opposition at the Marlboro event was George Alderman's CanAm McLaren, which retired, leaving the Howmet to win by 11 laps from a 911R.

Race average was 64.88mph, for those who are interested!

AT Huntsville, Heppenstall won the qualifying race, and the then won the main event, lapping the whole field - Don't know what this field actually consisted of.

[neville mackay]

I recall reading an interesting interview with Ray Heppenstall on the Watkins Glen research centre site recently which may shed more light on this

[ranbo38]

doug, while googling came across this
www.turbomachinerymag.com

[Pete Stowe]

Originally posted by Geoff E
You may (or may not) have seen this:- http://website.lineo...pete_howmet.htm

It may (or may not) be accurate.

Yep, it's accurate.
I have various reports from Competition Press & Autoweek on those events, plus some info from Howmet, in addition to Heppenstalls accounts, to back that up.

Doug,
If you need any more info let me know.

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by ranbo38
doug, while googling came across this
www.turbomachinerymag.com

Interesting article! Probably worth preserving the URL for that, rather than the main page link though:

http://216.250.227.1...cles/03jun2.htm

[Don Capps]

The McKee Howmet which won at Marlboro was chassis 'TXGTP2' the first chassis built specifically for using the turbine.

[Doug Nye]

Thank you everybody - such a comforting port in a real storm, I have to tell you...

DCN

[Pete Stowe]

Originally posted by Jeremy Jackson
AT Huntsville, Heppenstall won the qualifying race, and the then won the main event, lapping the whole field - Don't know what this field actually consisted of.

There was no serious competition for the Howmet in the Huntsville race either - a lap down in 2nd & 3rd were Jim Martin (Rambler American) & Randy Blessing Shelby GT350). At Cumberland Heppenstall did have a close race with Bob Nagel’s McKee-Ford 427; at Donnybrooke in August he wasn't on the pace of Jerry Hansen’s winning Lola T70.

Originally posted by Don Capps
The McKee Howmet which won at Marlboro was chassis 'TXGTP2' the first chassis built specifically for using the turbine.

Don,
is this from contemporary observation, or from Chuck Haines CanAm Cars info on the Hemmings website? Not that it’s wrong - I understand that this is the chassis raced by Heppenstall from Sebring onwards - but I’d be interested in any confirmation.

Doug,
Where did your original quote come from? (Don’t think I’ve come across that one before). And how come the current interest in the Howmet?

[Don Capps]

Pete, from the site mentioned plus a Heppenstall note saying that the second chassis was used from Sebring onward. The oiginal TX chassis was the McKee Mk 6 and apparently became 'GTP1'.

[paulhooft]

may be some sunny day we all
get together...
what day that will be...
paul hooft

[Doug Nye]

Originally posted by Pete Stowe
Doug, Where did your original quote come from? (Don’t think I’ve come across that one before). And how come the current interest in the Howmet?

Long story - apologies, but right now is not the time to tell it...

DCN

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by Pete Stowe

There was no serious competition for the Howmet in the Huntsville race either - a lap down in 2nd & 3rd were Jim Martin (Rambler American) & Randy Blessing Shelby GT350). At Cumberland Heppenstall did have a close race with Bob Nagel’s McKee-Ford 427; at Donnybrooke in August he wasn't on the pace of Jerry Hansen’s winning Lola T70.

Pete,

Thanks for getting the info from CP&A. I would have been glad to dig it out for Doug, but I appreciate someone else doing it ;)

"at Donnybrooke in August he wasn't on the pace of Jerry Hansen's winning Lola T70". Few were on the pace with Jerry at Donnybrooke...and it wasn't the car! Didn't matter whether it was a Sports racer, single seat...or even ice.

Now that I've finally cleared a little bit of time, I want to go back and resurrect the thread on most versatile drivers and state my case for Hansen.

And what was this Rambler American driven by Martin at Huntsville? I'm intrigued by it.


Jim Thurman

[Pete Stowe]

Originally posted by Jim Thurman
And what was this Rambler American driven by Martin at Huntsville? I'm intrigued by it.
Jim Thurman

The full quote from CP&A (June 29) is "Literally thundering to the second overall win was Jim Martin in his unbelievably-fast A sedan Rambler American." which doesn't really add much. Martin & the Rambler also won A Sedan at Grattan on 2 June (A&CP June 22).

Thanks Don, that matches what I have. Bob McKee told me that the Mk6 chassis used as a basis for the first car was the ex-Ralph Salyer car.

[Pete Stowe]

Originally posted by Don Capps
Pete, from the site mentioned plus a Heppenstall note saying that the second chassis was used from Sebring onward. The original TX chassis was the McKee Mk 6 and apparently became 'GTP1'.

Having said above that that matched what I have (which it does, in a note from Ray Heppenstall), I also have a typescript by Karl Ludvigsen, looks like it was written at the end of the '68 season with Heppenstall having been one of the main sources, which states "The car went to Sebring on March 10 for a special test day with the engine that had blown at Daytona, suitably rebuilt, but it still wasn’t right so Sebring was raced with the same car/engine combination as Daytona." Later "On June 8 and 9 at the new track at Huntsville, Ala. the TX scored two wins" and then "Meanwhile the long-wheelbase car [i.e. chassis 2] had been made race-ready and entered for the Marlboro 300 on June 16." And "Both cars were entered for the Watkins Glen Six-Hour on July 14…..the shorter car driven by Bob Tullius and Hugh Dibley."

So, a contradiction, which has chassis 1 used at Sebring & winning at Huntsville.

[Don Capps]

Pete,

I seem to always have these massive, throbbing headaches whenever delving into the mysterious, murky pasts of American racing cars.....

I knew this was rolling along too easily.... What is bad is that Karl's information actually begins to make some sense of it when you think about it. Let me step back and re-look this one with you Pete.

[Doug Nye]

Oh my - sorry fellers - what have I started?

DCN

[Don Capps]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Oh my - sorry fellers - what have I started?

DCN

Just another day on TNF..... Don't worry, we'll figure it out eventually. Hey, look on the bright side, we got the thing to where at least we have choices!!! That's better than we often expect when we begin to trawl the waters.....

If it were easy we wouldn't be having this much fun!

[Frank S]

Isn't it a Howmet that races around the tunnels in THX1138?

Frank S

[Frank S]

What a difference a (space) makes:
http://www.atlasf1.c...hlight=thx 1138

[2F-001]

I had a very interesting chat about the Howmet with Mr. Haines at at Goodwood (a thoroughly nice chap - and it is so easy to cultivate a dislike for well-heeled chaps with enviable car collections if one is not careful). What struck me about the car was how much the front resembled a Chaparral 2D...

[Pete Stowe]

I’ve just learnt that one of the Howmets (chassis 1) was fitted with a Ford V8 & Hewland ‘box and run once by Jim Stoufer, in what now might be called a "Vintage Race," at Pocono in 1975. Can anybody please identify what date / meeting / race that would have been. Apparently the track layout used for that race included the infield road course.

Also, the car was later sold (now with a dummy turbine engine fitted) at a Kruse Bros. race car auction, also at Pocono, sometime in 1976,77 or 78 - can anybody provide possible dates of such an auction?

[paulhooft]

AMT is rereleasing the 1/25 kit of the Howmet open CanAm Turbine in the coming months!!
But did this car ever race???
Paul Hooft

[Pete Stowe]

No, it wasn’t raced in open bodied form. It was however used to set a number of International speed records for turbine cars in 1970.

[Pete Stowe]

As Ray Heppenstall was most widely known for creating the Howmet turbine cars, this is perhaps the most appropriate thread to record that he passed away on 28 July 2004.

The following notice appeared in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on 1 August 2004.

‘HEPPENSTALL
RAYMOND B. "HEPPY"
Age 72 years, on July 28, 2004 at his residence of Gloucester City, NJ, born in Pittsburgh, PA; beloved husband of the late Gloria H. (Nee Schwartz) Heppenstall; father of Bill (Sue) Heppenstall, Barbara Plant and Joan Mary Major; grandfather of two; brother of Rachel Schingler. Ray retired from Subaru of America in Pennsauken, NJ from the management department. In his early years he became involved in racing with The Sports Car Club of America and raced all around the country, won many events and raced at Le Mans. He was one of the principals in the development of the Howmet Turbine Race Car and in his later years many times in addition to racing was the announcer at events. In his later years he became a member of The Vintage Sports Car Club of America and was still racing his Crosley Hot Shot.
His Memorial Service will be 7 pm Monday evening at THE STEPHENSON-BROWN FUNERAL HOME, 33 West Maple Avenue, Merchantville, NJ, where friends may call beginning at 6 pm.
Memorial contributions in memory of "Heppy" may be made to the American Cancer Society, 1851 Old Cuthbert Road, Cherry Hill, NJ 08034.
Please sign the guest book at post-gazette.com’

[petefenelon]

While we're on the subject of Howmets, Janos Wimpffen (in Time and Two Seats) mentions a "Howmet Sprint" that was essentially a highly-modified Ford Falcon - the team apparently ran it as a Ford Falcon at Daytona (came 12th) and then, rebuilt with bits from all kinds of vehicles, as a Howmet Sprint at Sebring '67 (where it placed 19th). I've never seen a pic of such a beast - sounds like the car Johnny Cash sung about in "One Piece at a Time". Wimpffen says it was built to legitimise Howmet as a "manufacturer" prior to their prototypes.... anyone know anything more about this beastie?

[Pete Stowe]

The restored Howmet Sprint pictured at Watkins Glen in September 2001


Ray's account at www.racingarchives.org tells the story.

[petefenelon]

Many thanks Pete. Mean looking machine, Ford below the waistline certainly ;)

[biercemountain]

Originally posted by Frank S
Isn't it a Howmet that races around the tunnels in THX1138?

Frank S

You're correct Frank. The Howmet turbine does appear in George Lucas' early sci-fi classic.

I'd love to learn the circumstances under which the car was hired for the movie and who drove it.

[Pete Stowe]

Originally posted by biercemountain


You're correct Frank. The Howmet turbine does appear in George Lucas' early sci-fi classic.

I'd love to learn the circumstances under which the car was hired for the movie and who drove it.

No, you’re mistaken there biercemountain. The cars in that film appear to be Fiberfab constructions, as discussed late on in this thread http://www.atlasf1.c...light=thx 1138

(and they don’t even look anything like the Howmet anyway!)

[biercemountain]

Originally posted by Pete Stowe


No, you’re mistaken there biercemountain. The cars in that film appear to be Fiberfab constructions, as discussed late on in this thread http://www.atlasf1.c...light=thx 1138

(and they don’t even look anything like the Howmet anyway!)

Thanks for clearing things up Pete.

After doing an google image search I found some screen captures on the Lucasfan website. Based on those pictures I agree that the car looks like a modified T70

http://www.lucasfan....138/image72.htm
http://www.lucasfan....138/image79.htm

Too bad there aren't pictures of the red car that crashes into the pole. I remember it looking like a 330P4 but perhaps it was another T70 body.

[xkssFrankOpalka]

Thought I saw a Howmet turbine for sale a few yrs ago, should have bought it. I see Bob McKee quite often at local car events.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Frank de Jong

Frank (or anyone), do you know what colours the Howmet was liveried in at Brands that weekend in '68?

I'd always thought of it as white, and I don't recall seeing a colour shot of it from that race, but the car's carrying Gulf logos and appears to be painted in two shades. It wasn't painted pale blue and orange was it?

And something else... The horseshoes on the engine cover are like the ones which appeared on the JW Gulf GT40s. What's the story behind them? I'm sure I've heard or read it before, but I'm buggered if I can remember the details!

[Pete Stowe]

Having seen colour pics of the TX at Brands, I can confirm it was in its normal colours - white with dark blue front panel, and unpainted aluminium cockpit top & engine cover which is why it would appear to be in two shades in a b&w photo. No idea why the horseshoes are there though.

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

Subject to confirmation by a reliable source, which is a cop-out way of saying I may be mistaken, the horse shoe thingies were a promotional gig from the Gulf Oil people. The pictured Howmet sports the Gulf logo + horse shoes and mention of the Gulf-sponsored JW GT40's also bearing them. Can't exactly recall what the gimmick was, though.

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by Pete Stowe
No idea why the horseshoes are there though.

Gulf Oil Company promotion. I can't remember the exact slogan, but it was along the lines of "Horse power", hence the shoes.

The stations gave away raised plastic horseshoes to stick on your car (or whatever). My brother got a couple and stuck them on a piece of furniture in his room.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Jim Thurman


Gulf Oil Company promotion. I can't remember the exact slogan, but it was along the lines of "Horse power", hence the shoes.

The stations gave away raised plastic horseshoes to stick on your car (or whatever). My brother got a couple and stuck them on a piece of furniture in his room.

Really?! Bugger me, I don't remember that one!

So do we conclude that the car was in fact white/dark blue/ally-coloured as Jim recalls, and that the Gulf logos & horseshoes are... well, 'why' more than 'what'? Were Gulf a co-sponsor of the meeting perhaps? I wasn't there, so I can't comment, but I don't recall the official poster acknowledging them.

[Pete Stowe]

In the USA the Howmet teams part sponsor & fuel supplier was Pure Oil/Union 76 (hence Ray Heppenstall running as no. 76 in US races). Back in 1968 Pure/Union had no presence in the UK, leaving Heppenstall scope for a race deal with another fuel company, & resulting in the car carrying Gulf stickers in place of the Pure Oil ones at Brands & at Oulton Park the following week. Pittsburg-based Gulf would be the logical alternative fuel company for Heppenstall with previous connections from his time with the Essex Wire GT40s, and through former JW Gulf driver Dick Thompson. A similar situation would have applied at Le Mans that September.

[Jim Thurman]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Really?! Bugger me, I don't remember that one!

Perhaps it was only a promotion in the U.S.? (which would be good reason for you to not remember it!)

I mentioned this ad campaign to my brother and he said he thinks it was something along the lines of "give your car a kick..." and I think it was for Gulf No-Nox gasoline.

Several other oil companies used animals as "mascots" or in ad campaigns, I guess Gulf felt they should get in on it...though I don't recall if the "horse" was ever seen, just the horseshoes.

I see that Manfred got this right - and before I posted. About all I added was the station give-away of the stick-on "horseshoes".

[Alan Cox]

I haven't seen it reported on TNF, or in any UK mags, but having just received July's copy of "Victory Lane", I read in Rick Carey's excellent auction column that the first Howmet chassis (No 1) has been sold in RM Auctions' sale on the 13th May.

In original, "as raced" condition, it needs a new turbine as vital components are missing from the original Continental unit, and spares are like hens' teeth. I seem to recall that chassis no. 2 uses another make of turbine for its demos, as its original had passed its sell-by date.

It is the one which acheived 176.085 mph at Daytona in 1968 to set a turbine-powered record, as well as running at Le Mans with Dibley and Tullius.

It sold for $264,000, including commisssion, and Rick opines that its restoration is going to be highly rewarding "...in satisfaction and accomplishment if not in financial terms...." !

Copyright RM Auctions

Sorry for the grainy image

[macoran]

I always found the Howmet an interesting job.
Now all I gotta do is dig up the attic and find the
Sports Car Graphic article and cutaway.

[thierry]

The Howmet number 2, i guess, will be auctioned in July by Christies during LM Classic auction.
Thierry

[Pete Stowe]

Howmet number 1 is now running again after lying idle in a California collection for decades, and appeared at the Amelia Island concourse in March – see video clip
http://youtube.com/r...=howmet turbine
and photos at
http://www.avonaero....met turbine.htm

This is the chassis that won at Huntsville, ran in the UK at Brands Hatch and Oulton Park, and was driven by Hugh Dibley & Bob Tullius at Watkins Glen and Le Mans.
The car is in near original 1968 spec, new owner Bruce Linsmeyer having sourced an appropriate Continental turbine engine (rather than the Allison used in the Chuck Haines restored cars).

[RA Historian]

The first Howmet was indeed made from Ralph Salyer's McKee Mk VI. It can be identified because it is LHD. The second was built from the ground up as a Howmet turbine car, with RHD. There is a third, which I believe Chuck Haines built up from parts. I may be wrong on that one, though.

Bob McKee told me a while back that the cars were internally identified as McKee Mk IXs.

That race in Huntsville, Ala., won by Heppenstall was a minor event, probably identified as an SCCA National, but bear in mind that after 1964 SCCA Nationals were what were called Divisionals before, not the full bodied, big time Nationals that existed before the Runoff format was adopted. Where before there were 12-16 Nationals a year spread out across the country, now there were six to 12 per division, times six divisions. Not the same thing, by far. (An aside, now there are nine divisions, so the dilution continues.)

And come on, Pete, you should know that it is CONCOURS, not concourse!!

[Terry Walker]

Howmet at Brands Hatch, 1968:

[JB Miltonian]

Howmet at 1968 Brands Hatch BOAC 500, photo credit to Peter Burn.

[Hugewally]

Originally posted by JB Miltonian
Howmet at 1968 Brands Hatch BOAC 500, photo credit to Peter Burn.

Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark...

More shots of the 1st car earlier this year at Amelia... (thats Bruce Linsmeyer in the red shirt btw...).

http://www.sportscar...-05/default.htm

[Pete Stowe]

Originally posted by RA Historian
The first Howmet was indeed made from Ralph Salyer's McKee Mk VI. It can be identified because it is LHD. The second was built from the ground up as a Howmet turbine car, with RHD. There is a third, which I believe Chuck Haines built up from parts. I may be wrong on that one, though.

That’s not so Tom, both no.1 and no. 2 are LHD. The major visible difference between the two is the gull-wing doors. On no.2 the hinges for the doors are close to the roof center-line, and the doors have a large cut out at the rear top corner to clear the air intake when opened. On no.1 the hinges are around 18 inches apart and the doors don’t have any cut out.

Chuck (& Bob McKee) told me that number three (also LHD) is a spare chassis built in 1968 but not used at the time. I don’t know what the intervening history is for that; will have to ask Chuck again when I see him at Goodwood.

And come on, Pete, you should know that it is CONCOURS, not concourse!!

Oops. :

Pete