14 replies to this topic

[Tumppi@BXL]

This is a scan from last weekend's Spa24h Programme (sorry about the quality, but it WAS wet there)



What makes me scratch my head, is some of the corner names. I've never heard the long single bend after Fagnes called Rome AND Liege. It was Stavelot, wasn't it? And even more - why. Was it not Stavelot, because it was the closest corner to the Stavelot village? And why does it have two names, when it is one single corner...

And the downhill corner before Pouhon - when did that become Copenhagen?

Are those something that have been renamed recently, or is it a difference in naming conventions between different races?

[LittleChris]

IIRC when the new Spa opened in 1979 a number of the corners were give the names of various cities according to a map that I saw at the time, but over the years it appears that they have been renamed to reflect names previously used on the proper circuit.

[Geoff E]

An aerial view of Spa:- http://forum.racesim...p?postid=194145

On the old track, Stavelot was the corner at the bottom-left of the photo.

[2F-001]

This is something I've been meaning to ask4 about for a while. I first became aware of the ''city'' names on a video of the 24-hour race in the very early days of the current track. Pouhon has a double name (like Paris-London, or some such) - which I first discovered when digging out an Autosport report of the 1000km in which Bellof was killed. Jonathan Palmer had his big shunt at Pouhon (when the chassis folded on impact and the gearstick went through the eye-port in his crash helmet) but as descibed in the report it took me a few moments to work out which corner they meant. It's curious that these names have resurfaced. I first visited Spa for the GP in '94 and the programme didn't mention the ''city'' names.

The new Stavelot is actually straight between the two bends - making it two corners, strictly speaking. I can vouch for this - I've been in the gravel there! (And the guy sitting next to me has hit the armco on the inside too!)

[BRG]

If you look at the map on Darren Galpin's ever helful site at http://www.silhouet..../tracks/spa.jpg
it adds to the confusion. This looks like a map issued by the circuit - no "city" names at all, but interestingly it uses Malmedy for the corner at the top of the circuit which I always thought was Les Combes - which name it uses for the corner now being called Bruxelles.
And I thought the right hander called Bohn on the new Spa programme map had another name - can't remember for sure, but something like Le Portellet or something?

I am now thoroughly

[gdecarli]

This is www.racingcircuits.net version:

Originally posted by BRG
And I thought the right hander called Bohn on the new Spa programme map had another name - can't remember for sure, but something like Le Portellet or something?

Les Combes in "standard" position, but here Bohn is Malmedy and Bruxelles is Rivage.
I don't remember what is my version (I have not on my website), I'll check as soon as possible.

Ciao,
Guido

[MCH]

I was at the 24hrs also and noticed the changed corner names as well. There must be some kind of "let's stimulate tourism in walonne" or "let's show our pan european allure" thought behind it I guess.

Here's a scan from the 1996 F1 programme.

[BRG]

I have just heard from a secret source that Spa plans to rename all its corners in a bid to placate Bernie and get the Belgian GP back. In future the Kemmel straight will be called Camels Straight, leading into Marlboro, Player's, Benson and Hedges (the double apex corner formerly called Pouhon!), Gauloises, 777, Luckies, Rothmans, Mild Seven, West etc...

[Rob Semmeling]

What's so confusing about all this?? 'LittleChris' already explaned some bends were originally named after European cities. They later changed the names, but the old ones are still used on some maps.

It is not uncommon that names of bends change, but most of the time they're named after sponsors, for instance, the Coca-Cola Kurve at Nürburgring was originally called Römer Kurve. Ironnically, it was also called Pepsi Kurve for a while! Guess Coca Cola didn't like that...

Btw, it is most likely there will be a Belgium Grand Prix at Spa in 2004 and 2005, as the Belgium government recently approved a law that makes an exception on the tabbaco law, exclusivly for the F1 GP at Spa.

[fines]

Originally posted by 2F-001
The new Stavelot is actually straight between the two bends - making it two corners, strictly speaking. I can vouch for this - I've been in the gravel there! (And the guy sitting next to me has hit the armco on the inside too!)

Actually three corners, I'd say, though the third is just a kink where the new track rejoins the ancient one.

[... and I'd rather call it Liège, because it's definitely not Stavelot!]

[2F-001]

Fair enough!

[MCH]

Originally posted by fines

Actually three corners, I'd say, though the third is just a kink where the new track rejoins the ancient one.

[... and I'd rather call it Liège, because it's definitely not Stavelot!]

I'd rather see the Stavelot name to be honest, the corner is in the direction of the town of Stavelot, as is the Malmedy corner.

[gdecarli]

I checked on my archive... and this is the names of corners I have.



(This map is copied and modified from etracks)

As you can see, Les Combes is the name for the whole 'S'; my Blanchimont and Malmedy are in a different position and I have no names for Fagnes and Blanchimont.
The map should be taken from Autosprint 30/1979, page 6, but I can't check now (I can do it in some days).

I don't know if even curves names come from the same article; if so, I think that Les Combes and Malmedy position is due to a misunderstanding because of the new track and Blanchimont is simply a mistake!

Ciao,
Guido

[Racer.Demon]

Malmedy in the above map is definitely wrong - that's Rivage.

Also it seems that the map in the thread-starting post is wrong from corners 13 to 16. Doesn't fit at all with the map from the 1996 programme and the racingcircuit.net map, which IMO are both correct.

[gdecarli]

Originally posted by Racer.Demon
Malmedy in the above map is definitely wrong - that's Rivage.

I know, but I posted it because I'm quite sure I found on an Autosprint dated 1979 (when the new Spa was just finished) or something like this and - in my opinion - it's interesting to see also history of mistakes.
Maybe journalist misunderstood the new section of the circuit, he had only a description via telex/letter/phone (forget fax and e-mail in 1979!) without any map and this is his (wrong) interpretation.
It's quite strange the wrong position of Blanchimont: this is simply an error, without any excuse!

In order to avoid any future misunderstandig, I added a note on my map!

Ciao,
Guido