14 replies to this topic

[David T.]

You all will probably already know about the ACO project of reviving a Sports series featuring some 1000 kms races. Now what I would like you to tell me - what do you think about it? And why endurance racing has in most cases adopted the 1000 kms lenght (some other circuits choose the 6 hours format, which is more or less the same)? Was the Nurburgring one the first 1000 kms race for Sports and GT cars? Which is the very origin of the 1000 kms format for a Sports car race?

[fines]

Presumably for the same reason they did the 1000 Miles in your country: it's just a neat number!

[WDH74]

Nice big round numbers make for nice, big, round race names. Indianapolis 500, Daytona 500, Spa 1000Kms, Bathurst 500 and 1000Kms, Road America 500, etc. Probably the same reason that the only endurance races that people really, really, really remember are 12 or 24 hour endurances. Six hours? Please, that's less than a day off work to watch. Twenty-four? Well that's a long weekend!
-William

[Udo K.]

Originally posted by David T.
Was the Nurburgring one the first 1000 kms race for Sports and GT cars? Which is the very origin of the 1000 kms format for a Sports car race?

Yes, David, I think the Nuerburging 1000 KMs were the first ones. And I also believe that fines
is right in saying it was inspired by the 1000 Miglia in Italy.

To my knowledge there was no 1000 KM event before the war. The only event in which "1000" played a role was the MM. So, as in many other cases, Italians were the inventors of history making events.

.. and I look forward to next years 1000 KMs at Spa, Monza, Nürburgring. Let's be there!

[Ralliart]

Some of the 1000KM races later were run at lesser distances but retained the 1000KM moniker or whatever. The Nurnberg 500KM hasn't been run at 500KM for years but they retained the "500" part and maybe still do. Some of the 1000 KM races were, for instance, 759 KM or whatever. It seems to me that in the deep, dark past I read an article about that mentioned the origin of the 1000 but maybe I'm hallucinating.

[Udo K.]

Originally posted by Ralliart
. The Nurnberg 500KM hasn't been run at 500KM for years but they retained the "500" part and maybe still do. Some of the 1000 KM races were, for instance, 759 KM or whatever. It seems to me that in the deep, dark past I read an article about that mentioned the origin of the 1000 but maybe I'm hallucinating.

Nuernberg 500 KM ? Where did you get this from? I suppose you mean the
" 200 Meilen von Nürnberg", a race run at the Norisring. This race, as you say, kept its original name, although it has not been a 200 Miler for many years.

In 1974 the Nürburgring 1000 KM were shortened to 33 laps = 750 KM due to the "oil crisis" .
In 1981 the race was stopped after only 17 laps due to the fatal accident of Herbert Müller,
in 1983 we were back to 44 laps, but only 916 KM as the Ring was shorter, due to the new
track being constructed.
The last genuine Nürburgring 1000 KM on the Nordschleife was in 1982.
The 1986, 1987 and 1988 issues were already held on the new "Grand Prix" circuit (1986 shortened again, this time because of the Eifel-weather).

In 2000 the AvD (Automobilclub von Deutschland) tried a revival of the 1000 KM format as a round of Don Panoz' ALMS, but it turned out not to be an economic success (weather was dreadful again), so they did not repeat this experiment.
I now wonder who is going to organise next years ACO race.

[Flying Panda]

Originally posted by fines
Presumably for the same reason they did the 1000 Miles in your country: it's just a neat number!

Indeed, its easier to promote a 1000km race than it is to promote a 998km, or a 1002km race

[Ralliart]

Udo K. Sorry, I did mean the 200 Miles of Norisring, not 500KM.

[Barry Boor]

because of the Eifel-weather

Sorry to have to correct your spelling, Udo, but the word is spelt AWFUL not EIFEL!

[Ray Bell]

Just thinking about it... of course we have a 1000k race in Australia... should that be a kk race?

Originally the event was 500 miles. Selected, no doubt, because it was a long enough distance to be a real test of the production vehicles to be raced in unmodified form, still fit in the day, and to run long enough to make up a race program by itself.

When it moved to Bathurst, this remained true, but by 1970 the race time had dropped from something over seven and a half hours (I have 7h 16m for the 1965 event, but the GT500s were quicker than the Cortina GTs of 196364) to barely over six and a half, then in 1971 a further 23mins came off the time, bringing it down to 6h 9m.

The 1972 event was wet, otherwise it would surely have slipped under the six hours as Brock and the LJ Torana, improving tyres now mounted on bigger wheels, circuit improvements, and a competitive Moffat, French, Chivas pressing on.

So when the whole scene chanted in 1973, the cars becoming no longer unmodified production models but getting freedoms in the areas of camshaft, carburetion, secondary exhaust systems, wheel sizes and so on, it was clear the race time would be cut substantially.

On top of that, Australia was moving in the next year or so to the metric system for weights and measures. As we would be driving kilometres on the road, it was silly to have a 500-mile race that was getting ever shorter. And calling it an 800km race didn't have much appeal.

The answer, clearly, was to increase the distance and go metric a little earlier. Race time was restored to 7h 20m, ready to be clipped away some more without leaving spectators standing without anything to watch half way through the afternoon.

So was born the Bathurst 1000k...

[Catalina Park]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
So was born the Bathurst 1000k...

Now known as the Pace Car 1000.

[fines]

Originally posted by Barry Boor

Sorry to have to correct your spelling, Udo, but the word is spelt AWFUL not EIFEL!

... and I for one can vouch that it's not the same (weatherwise, at least ), since for the last few days we are getting dangerously close to triple-digit temperatures here! :sweat:


__________________

Guantánamo is everywhere!

[Udo K.]

Originally posted by fines

... and I for one can vouch that it's not the same (weatherwise, at least ), since for the last few days we are getting dangerously close to triple-digit temperatures here! :sweat:


__________________

Guantánamo is everywhere!

..37 celsius at Munich today, but still better than Italy.

[fines]

37°C/99°F today, still rising! Phew...

[David T.]

40°C in Florence but could we go back to the 1000 kms topics, please?