89 replies to this topic

[MCS]

I was intrigued by the article in MOTOR SPORT about Johnny Herbert's "One That Got Away" in that mention is made of John Miles making adjustments to the Lotus...

How involved was Miles and did he actually drive the car?

Moreover, has there ever been an in-depth interview/profile of Miles published anywhere?

He must have some pretty extraordinary tales to tell...

Does anybody know why he didn't resume racing with BRM after he had left Lotus in 1970 - I know he tested a P153...

MCS

[David Beard]

Originally posted by MCS


Does anybody know why he didn't resume racing with BRM after he had left Lotus in 1970 - I know he tested a P153...

MCS

He raced the P153 at the Race of Champions Brands Hatch 1971.

[WGD706]

Miles did some 2-liter sports car races before retiring to concentrate on technical journalism and road testing. He has since made a name for himself on the engineering side of the Lotus Cars organization.

[Geoff E]

A Miles tale:

The only time I visited Brands Hatch, Spring 1966, Miles was driving an Elan in a sports car race. At the end of the first lap, he had to visit the pits as the bonnet had flown open and his vision was thus somewhat restricted. He proceeded to pick his way through the field until coming out of Clearways (the last corner isn't/wasn't it?) on the last lap he was a car's length behind the leader, a Sunbeam Tiger. He inched his way forward to win by a bonnet's length. I can remember nothing else of that meeting. I believe he was involved with Lotus until fairly recently, or perhaps still is.

[stuartbrs]

Wasnt John Miles heavily involved in the development of the Elise?

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Geoff E
A Miles tale:

The only time I visited Brands Hatch, Spring 1966, Miles was driving an Elan in a sports car race. At the end of the first lap, he had to visit the pits as the bonnet had flown open and his vision was thus somewhat restricted. He proceeded to pick his way through the field until coming out of Clearways (the last corner isn't/wasn't it?) on the last lap he was a car's length behind the leader, a Sunbeam Tiger. He inched his way forward to win by a bonnet's length. I can remember nothing else of that meeting. I believe he was involved with Lotus until fairly recently, or perhaps still is.

Didn't the Elan bonnet hinge at the front?

In which case it wouldn't obscure his vision much at all...

[soubriquet]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Didn't the Elan bonnet hinge at the front?

In which case it wouldn't obscure his vision much at all...

Yes they do. It's a long time since I built an Elan, but I wouldn't dignify the arrangement with the term "hinge". It is a concentric semi-circular arrangement, where the glass fibre of the bonnet slides over a plate of sheet metal. In my case, an ex-beer can, purchased solely for the for the purpose, of course.

And I'm not surprised a well drive Elan should blow away a Tiger: a sharp tool vs. a blunt instrument.

[Ralliart]

I seem to remember a photo of Miles racing a Lotus Europa at one point, but I could be incorrect.

[Geoff E]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


Didn't the Elan bonnet hinge at the front?

In which case it wouldn't obscure his vision much at all...

I suppose you must be right, but it was deemed sufficient to warrant a visit to the pits.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Ralliart
I seem to remember a photo of Miles racing a Lotus Europa at one point, but I could be incorrect.

Yes, I'm sure you're right...

And sobriquet, I agree with you that the word 'hinge' is hardly appropriate. The bonnet comes right out, doesn't it?

And of course, Geoff, it would necessitate a pit visit if it was loose, but my main point was that it wouldn't do too much harm to his vision.

[bill moffat]

Originally posted by Ray Bell



And of course, Geoff, it would necessitate a pit visit if it was loose, but my main point was that it wouldn't do too much harm to his vision.

oh yes it would! My Elan bonnet ( if bonnet is not too grand a word for this glassfibre hatch) "popped" at speed once or twice. Courtesy of the spring loaded hinge and Chapman aerodynamics the bonnet then assumes a half-mast position and partially obscures your view of the impending accident.

My Elan bonnet eventually ended up as a molten lump of glassfibre gently frying on the top of the "twink", but that's another story....

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Ralliart
I seem to remember a photo of Miles racing a Lotus Europa at one point, but I could be incorrect.

Didn't he race the works 62? - the vaguely 47/Europa-ish one that was the prototype for the Lotus slant-four engine?

I wonder how Miles would've got on if he was at a team where drivers were treated a bit more gently than Chunky's Lotus - he clearly had very good car-sorting skills and was no slouch in the cockpit, but the overwhelming impression I get is that Chapman did nothing to help him rebuild his confidence after Monza. He always comes across in interviews as a modest, diffident, intelligent and very analytical guy.

It's difficutl to pick another contemporary F1 team where he would've fitted in though - certainly not Ferrari or March, he would've gone to the wall there, and BRM in the Big Lou era against the likes of Seppi and Pedro doesn't sound too good; Tyrrell wouldn't need someone with Miles' skills given JYS - perhaps he could've helped sort out Matra? Or taken on development work at Brabham after Black Jack's departure? - I think he would've made a very interesting replacement for Bruce at McLaren too, providing the engineering input to complement Denny's talents...?

[bill moffat]

..he raced the GLTL 47 at the BOAC 500 at Brands in '68 (partnered by Jackie Oliver). If only he had been racing against Jimmy Clark in the F3L that day.....

[BRG]

Originally posted by bill moffat
the bonnet then assumes a half-mast position and partially obscures your view of the impending accident.

Indeed it does. I did some tarmac rallies co-driving in my mate's Elan some years ago, and we suffered a vertical bonnet redeployment incident after hitting a bump at speed. I wouldn't have wanted to drive far with it open and my driver certainly felt no urge to continue with it like that either, So it was my duty as co-driver (as ever!) to dive out and resecure it - we had tried to get a spectator to do it, but he was too busy laughing and taking photos to help. Thereafter, we fitted bonnet-pins.

I well remember John Miles racing both the works 47 and 62 in Gold Leaf colours with great success. He may not have really been F1 material, but he was excellent in sports cars. It is a pity he couldn' t have continued his racing in that category, but I always suspected that he enjoyed the engineering and technical side as much, if not more than, the racing.

[David Beard]

Miles in Lotus 72 at British GP 1970. Taken on the downhill stretch from Druids with just a 135mm lens (can one still get that close?)

A very early 72 with the rollover bar struts going backwards over the engine.

(I may have posted this before, sorry to those who remember it)

[David Beard]

Originally posted by David Beard


He raced the P153 at the Race of Champions Brands Hatch 1971.

The only reason I remember is because I took this photo at the top of Paddock Hill Bend, again with only a 135mm lens and again showing the strange fault that the focal plane shutter had on my Zenit SLR (it always resulted in the left hand side of the photo being more exposed that the right...)

[Ralliart]

The GLTL 47 at Brands Hatch - that's the occasion for the photo I recall. Re: Monza, Miles has written that he knew was through because he refused to race his 72 without wings. He did race there without the wings, but his refusal(s) sealed his fate, he related, and he knew he wouldn't be back with Lotus in '71. He felt the denuded Lotus was unstable whereas Rindt coped with it.

[MCS]

Thanks for the pics David - I like your website too (great picture of Roger Williamson before the 73 British GP).

But, does anybody out there know if there has ever been an in-depth interview/profile of Miles published anywhere..?

Thanks !

MCS

[Ralliart]

"Winging it," Oct. 99 issue of F1 Racing...the lead goes..."John Miles. This is his story." Miles' account of the Monza '70 weekend. The most Miles' down on paper, as far as I know. Miles was also one of those drivers involved in the making of "Le Mans", as I recall.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by MCS
Thanks for the pics David - I like your website too (great picture of Roger Williamson before the 73 British GP).

But, does anybody out there know if there has ever been an in-depth interview/profile of Miles published anywhere..?

Thanks !

MCS

Off the top of my head - sorry I can't be more specific - there's been at least one on him in C&SC (I think- that or Motor Sport) over the last 5 years or so, and there's a fairly extensive interview with him (majoring on Rindt's Monza accident) in Crombac's Chapman book.

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by Ralliart
The GLTL 47 at Brands Hatch - that's the occasion for the photo I recall. Re: Monza, Miles has written that he knew was through because he refused to race his 72 without wings. He did race there without the wings, but his refusal(s) sealed his fate, he related, and he knew he wouldn't be back with Lotus in '71. He felt the denuded Lotus was unstable whereas Rindt coped with it.

If I could just jump in here to correct a few things

I interviewed John at some length for my Lotus 72 book (as indeed I did for the 49 book) and he is a true gent - very softly spoken, thoughtful and careful with his words. He didn't refuse to race his 72 wings, although he did very forcefully protest the removal of the wings from his car during Friday practice. He implored his mechanic to put them back on for Saturday but they were still left off on the orders of Chapman. He didn't actually practice that day because he was just about to go out when Rindt had his crash, nor did he race as the cars were withdrawn following the Rindt crash.

It was the difference of opinion at Monza that really killed the relationship between Miles and Chapman, and he didn't drive for the F1 team again that year. Finally, it is probably true to say that Rindt coped better than Miles with the 'denuded' 72 but he didn't cope with it completely otherwise he might have still been alive today - certainly the instability of the car was put forward as a factor contributing to his accident and Peter Warr still believes to this day that it was that rather than a broken brake-shaft which caused him to crash.

Michael Oliver

[petefenelon]

Michael,

thanks for the insight!

I recall reading somewhere that Chapman said to Miles that he didn't quite know what was happening and that he should take some time out to think about matters - but when did it go from that to the usual brusque sacking?

I'm assuming John left Lotus completely when he was driving the BRM and the sports cars - when did he rejoin? (I'm assuming After Chapman?)

pete

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by petefenelon
Michael,

thanks for the insight!

I recall reading somewhere that Chapman said to Miles that he didn't quite know what was happening and that he should take some time out to think about matters - but when did it go from that to the usual brusque sacking?

I'm assuming John left Lotus completely when he was driving the BRM and the sports cars - when did he rejoin? (I'm assuming After Chapman?)

pete

Pete

IIRC, Miles was taking part in the filming of Le Mans when he received a phone call informing him that his services were no longer required. In typical Chapman fashion, he left it to someone else to do his dirty work, in this case I think Peter Warr was given the task.

I don't know when he began working for Lotus Cars, which had been a separate entity from Team Lotus anyway since the late 1960s (I'm sure someone else will know exactly when!) the company. I'll have to ask him, I guess

Michael Oliver

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by Michael Oliver


Lotus Cars, which had been a separate entity from Team Lotus anyway since the late 1960s (I'm sure someone else will know exactly when!)

Michael Oliver

Separate entity for legal ownership purposes maybe but both were very much under the common control of Chapman until his death.

I'd guess the separation happened when the Lotus Cars/Manufacturing group was floated on the London Stock Exchange. And IIRC that was 1967 (but I'd need to check that).

Incidentally Michael, thanks so much for posting. I've enjoyed your books greatly and hope you get as much out of this forum as we do!

[MCS]

That's better !!!

Ralliart, Pete, Michael - thanks.

MCS

[Ralliart]

Mr. Oliver, Of course you're right. And I didn't mean to imply that Miles was any less a racer than Rindt. Only that Miles definitely felt the handling spooky whereas Rindt apparently didn't. Without consulting anything, I posted that one quickly. I had thought Miles went out again but no. Re; some of the issues brought up here, Miles had this to say, "(With) about half an hour left (in the second Friday practice session)...back in the pits, Jochen was clamoring for more straight-line speed, a big step. The previous year he'd nearly won the race in a Lotus 49 without wings. Now Jochen called, urgently, for the wings to be removed...Jochen was 600-700 rpm faster on the straight without the wings (and qualified sixth, with Miles eleventh and afterwards)...Jochen was happy. He must have felt confident about sorting the car out in an hour, or so confident that he knew he could drive round any instability. I thought the risk too great. We didn't have the faintest idea of the aero behaviour without wings. I didn't like what seemed to be such a rash approach and had breakfast the next morining with Rindt and Peter Gethin)...We talked wings...'You'll be alright, John.' said Jochen...Jochen got out to practice on the dot...with unscrubbed tires. He was also bedding in new brake pads...(After the race, about a week later) I met up with Colin Chapman about this time (and) I had permission to go to Le Mans to do some filming. Two weeks later Peter Warr called me to say that I was being replaced by Reine Wisell."
May I take this opportunity, Mr. Oliver, to be the umteenth person to congratulate you on your Lotus 49 book!!!

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Michael Oliver
.....Lotus Cars, which had been a separate entity from Team Lotus anyway since the late 1960s (I'm sure someone else will know exactly when!).....

There was also a separate racing team...

The Lotus 41s, I think it was, were running with a team that included John Joyce. I've forgotten the details right now, but Joyce told me some of the things that were going on. Something to do with allowing the F1 team to get on with its own thing and still allow development to take place in the lesser categories.

And sometimes they led the way, feeding information back to the F1 team...

I wonder if Adam Joyce knows much about this?

[Ralliart]

Re: what John Miles recounted in "Winging it", I noticed some inconsistencies, or differences of opinion, Adam Cooper wrote, in his article in the October 2000 issue of Motor Sport, "(Rindt) was delighted to find that the DFV was revving 800 rpm higher...'I had breakfast with Jochen,' says Fittipaldi. 'He and Bernie asked me to drive for their F2 team...'
Mundane? I don't think so when one is trying to put the pieces together re: a tragedy. One would have to side with Miles in these instances. I'm not so sure the wingless Lotus and its "looseness" itself, had anything to do with Rindt's accident. At the previous race, the Austrian GP, Miles had a moment. "A brake shaft had broken on my car, nearly sending me into the trees to meet my maker. A horrendous vibration from the front end early in the race had made me back off a bit for the corners. Without warning, when I braked, the car shot across the road to the right. I scraped around the corner - guardian angel in attendance...We shall never know for sure what went wrong (in the Rindt accident). The car's right-hand brake shaft was broken. A bending failure would suggest it broke in collision with a guardrail support. A torsional failure would indicate a failure while braking, which would certainly have made the car pull uncontrollably left as mine had uncontrollably right in Austria...There is evidence, too, that suggests the brake balance had not been changed to account for the much reduced rear grip - so maybe he just got into a tank-slapper under braking...Personally, I think something broke. I could never imagine Jochen losing control with such violence however bad the aerodynamics."
I'm anxious to read the upcoming Lotus 72 book by Mr. Oliver and more from and of John Miles.

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by Ruairidh


Separate entity for legal ownership purposes maybe but both were very much under the common control of Chapman until his death.

I'd guess the separation happened when the Lotus Cars/Manufacturing group was floated on the London Stock Exchange. And IIRC that was 1967 (but I'd need to check that).

Incidentally Michael, thanks so much for posting. I've enjoyed your books greatly and hope you get as much out of this forum as we do!

You are absolutely write about the control issue. If I had to guess I would say that Lotus cars floated in 1968 or 69 but don't have any way of looking it up quickly here in the office...

I very much enjoy posting on this forum, although I have to confess that sometimes I have more fun lurking and just reading what other people have to say about things The depth of knowledge of some of the other members is astounding, overwhelming even! It is also a time-consuming exercise keeping track with it, particularly when I am supposed to be writing a book ;)

However, that is all over now: the books are in the warehouse and now I just have to wait to see if we sell any!

Michael Olive

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by Ralliart
Mr. Oliver, Of course you're right. And I didn't mean to imply that Miles was any less a racer than Rindt.

No problem! Actually, I don't think John would dispute that notion at all He freely confesses that he found it hard work, particularly getting up to speed in practice if he didn't feel 100% confident in the car.

Originally posted by Ralliart
May I take this opportunity, Mr. Oliver, to be the umteenth person to congratulate you on your Lotus 49 book!!!

Thank you, it's always nice to be appreciated

Michael Oliver

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


There was also a separate racing team...

The Lotus 41s, I think it was, were running with a team that included John Joyce. I've forgotten the details right now, but Joyce told me some of the things that were going on. Something to do with allowing the F1 team to get on with its own thing and still allow development to take place in the lesser categories.

And sometimes they led the way, feeding information back to the F1 team...

I wonder if Adam Joyce knows much about this?

Ray, off the top of my head, are you thinking of Ron Harris Team Lotus, plus there was also the semi-works Herts Aero Club 48 run later on for Jackie Oliver? Not really my speciality, I have to confess...

Michael

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


There was also a separate racing team...

The Lotus 41s, I think it was, were running with a team that included John Joyce. I've forgotten the details right now, but Joyce told me some of the things that were going on. Something to do with allowing the F1 team to get on with its own thing and still allow development to take place in the lesser categories.

And sometimes they led the way, feeding information back to the F1 team...

I wonder if Adam Joyce knows much about this?

Wasn't the separate team "Lotus components", which was a third part of the Group separate from Team and Cars, designed to service customer/production racing cars (and the Seven, IIRC). Jackie Oliver's '67 F2 entry in the German GP was a "Lotus Components" car, not an entry by Team.

I think most of the top Components folks went off to become GRD for a while in the early 70s.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Michael Oliver


Ray, off the top of my head, are you thinking of Ron Harris Team Lotus, plus there was also the semi-works Herts Aero Club 48 run later on for Jackie Oliver? Not really my speciality, I have to confess...

Michael

I got the impression that the Harris and Winkelmann operations were along the lines of "you've got the budget, we don't want to run works cars in minor formulae ourselves, we'll sell, er, let you run, the works team - it'll get you more starting money and you can borrow our drivers" than operations that did serious development themselves.... Lotus Components was the back-door racing team, IIRC!

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by Ralliart
Re: what John Miles recounted in "Winging it", I noticed some inconsistencies, or differences of opinion, Adam Cooper wrote, in his article in the October 2000 issue of Motor Sport, "(Rindt) was delighted to find that the DFV was revving 800 rpm higher...'I had breakfast with Jochen,' says Fittipaldi. 'He and Bernie asked me to drive for their F2 team...'
Mundane? I don't think so when one is trying to put the pieces together re: a tragedy.

I'm anxious to read the upcoming Lotus 72 book by Mr. Oliver and more from and of John Miles.

Ralliart

Maybe Fittipaldi was breakfasting with Gethin and Miles, with Bernie sitting in also There are inconsistencies but we are talking 33 years ago, so some people can be excused for the occasional memory lapse

This is something I've found with the 49 and 72 books, that you cannot take it as read that what someone tells you is true, you have to go away and look it up and very often they are wrong! Only a small detail but nearly always there is something about the story that is not quite true.

I've tried to provide a balanced range of opinion from as many informed sources as possible in my 72 book about what caused Rindt's car to veer off the track at Monza but ultimately, no-one truly knows what happened, any more than with Clark or Senna's crash (and I'm not trying to set off an OT discussion about them, please!). Different people have different opinions. The only hard fact is that it was the poorly installed armco which allowed the nose of the car to slip underneath it that killed Rindt

Another interesting point is that, if Fittipaldi hadn't crashed Rindt's new car (72/5) on Thursday, damaging it beyond immediate repair, it would have been him who would have been driving 72/2 on Saturday. Makes you realise how fate can dramatically alter the course of history...

Michael

[Ray Bell]

I feel sure it was the Lotus Components operation...

John Joyce told me about it some years ago, how they did some development and actually overcame a serious problem in the suspension of one of the cars.

Unfortunately, John died a year or more back, though his son Adam did post here briefly. That's why I wonder if he knows anything about it...

For those not familiar with John Joyce, he returned to Australia and held the Hewland agency for some time, but more important was his setting up of Bowin and the construction of a range of racing cars. He also did projects on other racing machinery, like some top sedans, and had a lot to do with the construction of at least the first of the Matich A50s.

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
I feel sure it was the Lotus Components operation...

Ray/Pete: like I said - not my area of specialism, I was just throwing a few names up in the air in the hope that somebody would suggest an answer, as Pete did!

Lotus Components, hmm, I had a feeling that they were just the customer arm of Team Lotus, selling spares and cars to customers? I know they were certainly very closely linked to TL, as they were in the building next door, I believe. The Lotus Cortinas and the Europas etc were being run by Team Lotus because people like Jim Endruweit and Bob Dance were moved back and forth from these operations to working on F1 cars as and when required.

Dare say I could find out for sure, if need be, as I know plenty of people to ask, it's just that I've got a certain book to sell and promote at the moment ;)

Michael Oliver

[Bernd]

Michael when is 72 coming out?

[Ray Bell]

As I said, Michael, there was an element of distance from the F1 team involved... I think this may have been later than you're thinking, and that might well mean that the 41s were a thing of the past before this situation came into being...

Some time in the next few days, as I'm driving down the highway or something, it will come to me what exactly it was that Joyce overcame with the lesser cars and showed the F1 team the way to go.

[dolomite]

See these threads for previous discussion on the possible causes of Rindt's accident

http://www.atlasf1.c...?threadid=10558

http://www.atlasf1.c...?threadid=13749

http://www.atlasf1.c...?threadid=56111

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Michael Oliver


Ray/Pete: like I said - not my area of specialism, I was just throwing a few names up in the air in the hope that somebody would suggest an answer, as Pete did!

Lotus Components, hmm, I had a feeling that they were just the customer arm of Team Lotus, selling spares and cars to customers?

Michael Oliver

Michael, as I understand it Team Lotus was always the Champan family's, and didn't really have much to do financially with Lotus. Lotus Components was something Chunky set up to service "obsolete" cars and race-car customers (hence the 7's move there, and the bits for customer cars). Quite why it developed a race team of its own given that it'd be competing against its customers escapes me; quite why it wasn't a part of Lotus Cars similarly feels unusual (although Chunky might have been planning ahead for floating Lotus and might have thought that a racing car company was too financially risky as part of a public company...)

When all's said and done, though, different company names in the Lotus empire really were 'flags of convenience' to be used and abused by Chapman as he saw fit

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by Bernd
Michael when is 72 coming out?

Hi Bernd

Well, the books are now in the UK, so should be available... However, it might be worth waiting a few days as I hope to be able to announce something imminently which might be of interest to TNFers ;)

Cheers

Michael

[dolomite]

Originally posted by Michael Oliver
Well, the books are now in the UK, so should be available... However, it might be worth waiting a few days as I hope to be able to announce something imminently which might be of interest to TNFers ;)

We're all agog Michael

[dolomite]

Originally posted by Michael Oliver


Hi Bernd

Well, the books are now in the UK, so should be available... However, it might be worth waiting a few days as I hope to be able to announce something imminently which might be of interest to TNFers ;)

Cheers

Michael

Any more developments Michael, or shall I go just ahead and order it from Amazon (Quote from Amazon web site: "This hard-to-find title is subject to an additional handling charge of £1.99 per item (excluding VAT).")

[Michael Oliver]

Originally posted by dolomite


Any more developments Michael, or shall I go just ahead and order it from Amazon (Quote from Amazon web site: "This hard-to-find title is subject to an additional handling charge of £1.99 per item (excluding VAT).")

Sorry, but for some reason I've overlooked this thread for the past couple of days.

A £1.99 handling charge I'm not sure on what basis they define this as a 'hard-to-find' title - all they have to do is contact the distributor Menoshires, who have stock, or the publisher Coterie Press, who have several thousand sitting on pallets in a warehouse!

If you like, I can do it for you for a 5% discount (a courtesy I am willing to extend to any other TNFer incidentally), plus UK postage of £3.95 (guess Europe would be a bit more!), plus I will sign it for you and (if you want!) put some form of dedication in there too.

I guess I really ought to start a thread to this effect, as I have got clearance for this from Don Capps but somehow I feel a bit funny about doing this, as I don't want TNFers to feel that I am abusing the forum to sell things to them, if you know what I mean!

Anyhow, let me know if this would be of interest to you. If you are going to Goodwood this weekend, I could probably save you the postage as well

Michael

[Dennis Hockenbury]

Originally posted by Michael Oliver
If you like, I can do it for you for a 5% discount (a courtesy I am willing to extend to any other TNFer incidentally), plus UK postage of £3.95 (guess Europe would be a bit more!), plus I will sign it for you and (if you want!) put some form of dedication in there too.

Michael, I would be very interested in your kind offer. Could you provide the relevant information? A PM would be fine if you prefer.

I have been planning to acquire your 72 book, but I was also waiting for your update.

Many thanks.

[dolomite]

Originally posted by Michael Oliver

If you like, I can do it for you for a 5% discount (a courtesy I am willing to extend to any other TNFer incidentally), plus UK postage of £3.95 (guess Europe would be a bit more!), plus I will sign it for you and (if you want!) put some form of dedication in there too.

I guess I really ought to start a thread to this effect, as I have got clearance for this from Don Capps but somehow I feel a bit funny about doing this, as I don't want TNFers to feel that I am abusing the forum to sell things to them, if you know what I mean!

Anyhow, let me know if this would be of interest to you. If you are going to Goodwood this weekend, I could probably save you the postage as well

Michael

That would be absolutely fantastic, thank you!
Unfortunately I'm not going to Goodwood, so it will have to be via post. Can you PM me with an address to send a cheque to?

[ian senior]

""OK, I know this thread is a few years old, but I only just got here!
There is another Pete King/racing music connection:
He issued a CD called "Tamburello" which was in effect a tribute to Ayrton Senna.
The CD was issued (and is still available) on Miles Music (www.milesmusic.co.uk) which was founded by John Miles, former Lotus GP driver and all-around good bloke.
John was a close personal friend of Senna, having been very close to Team Lotus even after he quit driving, and was so deeply moved by his death that he worked with King to create the music as a tribute.
I had the good fortune to be working with John at the time at Lotus Engineering (1994/1995) and found him to be an extraordinary individual - a true Rennaissance man with very diverse talents and interests. He also MIGHT know the real truth of the last days of ACBC - but he will never tell! "

****************************************************************************

The above appeared in Stoatspeed's post on the "Music and motor racing" thread.

I found it fascinating that John Miles should be involved in a record company promoting British jazz musicians. But on the other hand, why not - from what I know of the man, he always struck me as someone who had other things in his life besides cars.

I remember his stint as a staff writer on Autocar. His words were always worth reading, whether he was writing about the latest Eurobox or a serious performance car, and it was reassuring to know that here was a man who knew what made a car tick, who knew how to get the best out of it, and you could therefore take what he said to be gospel.

Think of his days on the engineering side at Lotus. We all know about the Lotus cars themselves, but what about some of the cars he was involved with on the consultancy side. Anyone who could make a satisfying driver's car out of such unpromising material as the Proton Satria clearly knew what he was doing.

And of course he was a good, and perhaps under-rated, racing driver. I only saw him race once, in the DART Chevron B19, but he ran away from a quality field of drivers in such a way that made you wonder just what he could have gone on to achieve as a top line sports car driver if he had put his mind to it after his F1 career went pear-shaped.

Forgive the ramblings here, but I was to some extent provoked by other discussion about the lack of brain cells of certain other drivers. But you can't really imagine such a diversely talented and well rounded character as John Miles appearing amongst the current crop of drivers, can you?

[Stephen W]

I doubt very much that someone like John Miles would make it in F1 nowadays. He was a thoroughly likeable character and I remember meeting him at Hockenheim in 1970. I thought then that he appeared totally unaffected by his 'star status' even being somewhat bewildered that he was recognised away from the racing cars. I also saw him driving in F3 and Sports Racing cars as well as in F1. I always thought he was a cracking development driver and had the true pace to be successful in F1 if the chips had fallen more kindly for him.

[Huw Jadvantich]

People didn't whisper, scrape and bow when John Miles walked into the Lotus canteen, there was no sense of awe as he qued with every one else to pay for his meal. He did not require a command performance, which considering his parents' thespian background is perhaps a surprise.
Being brought up with the performance of music it is perhaps more surprising that he became an F1 driver than a musical producer. If you didn't know what he looked like, you wouldn't know you had just walked past anyone important, let alone an F1 driver.
John Miles has feel, and he knows the exact nuances of geometry and compliance to instill in any car (that he has been given full rein) total confidence and fidelity. Colin Chapman obviously worked that to his advantage, and it is quite likely that because of John's feel and ability as a test driver and engineer, that Jochen Rindt won the world Championship in the Lotus 72.
However with his temperament, and the resonance of Rindt's accident, it was unlikely that John would have become a leading competitor in Grand Prix racing after 1970, even though he was a top drawer driver.

[Lec CRP1]

Talking of F1 and jazz, didn't someone called Barney Willen record an album called "The Death Of Lorenzo Bandini"?