33 replies to this topic

[nick stone]

In a article in the July issue of CAR magzine, Derek tells his interviewer that:

"... I've been reluctant to say this until now but I've never lost a position in a race through fault of my own since 1971."

I find this an extraordinary achievement considering the length of his career and the quality of the competition he has met in this time. Surely there can be no other driver - extant or otherwise - that could come close to such a claim.

Does this make him the best ever?

[mat1]

Hmmm, if I always start as the last driver, this statement would alwys be true....

Would that make me the best driver?

mat1

[eldougo]

OK we all know that he was good ,however you could say that if AMON did not have all
the bad luck he would have been WDC at some time, a slightly ambiguous statement me
think's.

[Ralliart]

I believe Bell made that claim in his autobiography, also. In any event, I've read or heard of it before. Also, Bell did not crash much in his very lengthy career. One of the best racers ever, for my money.

[Vicuna]

In the immortal words of John McEnroe



YOU HAVE GOT TO BE JOKING!!

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Ralliart
I believe Bell made that claim in his autobiography, also. In any event, I've read or heard of it before. Also, Bell did not crash much in his very lengthy career. One of the best racers ever, for my money.

I re-read "My Racing Life" recently, and don't recall seeing that claim!

[paulb]

I don't recall that being the case when he was driving an A4 in the SpeedVision World Challenge series. In car cameras don't lie.

[Option1]

I agree with Paul, I've got memories of Bell being passed a number of times last year(?) and Derek giving a running commentary and the camera following the passing car at the time.

Neil

[Chris_Noto]

Originally posted by Ralliart
... Bell did not crash much in his very lengthy career. One of the best racers ever, for my money.

I believe that he is still is a pretty fair shoe, as he's driven an Audi S4 in the SCCA Speed World Challenge earlier this year, having been replaced on the team by Randy Pobst, due to Bell's committment to the Bentley Le Mans effort.

D. Bell has often driven with an in car camera and a two way audio link, through which he engages in banter with the commentators, and provides amusing insight. Good stuff.

[AndreasL]

Originally posted by nick stone
"... I've been reluctant to say this until now but I've never lost a position in a race through fault of my own since 1971."

Originally posted by Option1
I agree with Paul, I've got memories of Bell being passed a number of times last year(?) and Derek giving a running commentary and the camera following the passing car at the time.

Well, it wasn't his fault the other guy was faster, now was it.

/Andreas

[diego]

Hmmm... I believe I witnessed him blowing the start of his race at the Monterey Historics this past weekend and getting passed by John Morton in another Cobra Daytona Coupe.

[AndreasL]

Ahh, well after the article mentioned at the start of the thread ;)

It's just a question of putting the right spin on things. But not too much spin, or you'll end up in the gravel and get passed...

[Doug Nye]

The best ever?

The best what ever?????



DCN

[Doug Nye]

Yes exactly - well translated from the original 'ampshire...

DCN

[nick stone]

Well he's not the fastest driver, that's (insert correct answer here) but surely he's the best at staying unpassed - or if passed, passing back.

To have never lost a position in a career that spans 30-odd distinguished years and includes five Le Mans wins is pretty damned special. Not to mention hard to believe.

[holiday]

Dunno, but didnt he say back then: "Other men in my age have crutches, I have Stefan [Bellof]"?

Yup, heard he did so.

[Spirit of '67]

And now going beyond all the levity, successful or otherwise, perhaps someone could discuss the OTHER Derek Bell - the multiple World Sports Car championship winner, multiple LeMans winner (exceeded only by Ickx's six), accessory to Al Holbert's domination of IMSA GTP racing for half a decade and more, but why bother? Whoops - also a great person to speak to and THE BEST narrator of a GP race I ever heard - but after being "too direct" about a lesser light's driving ("He's a complete moron! He shouldn't even be out there!") he was replaced by the more diplomatic but less successful David Hobbs, also a nice guy.

Bell stands in the competition for Greatest Sports Car Driver, and has few if any peers in that category.

As for that Speedvision gig, I can't believe anybody took that seriously.

And "... I've been reluctant to say this until now but I've never lost a position in a race through fault of my own since 1971." makes it pretty obvious he is saying that lame A4 "b" car he was driving wasn't cutting it - as his most recent LeMans effort with his son should show.

[Doug Nye]

Originally posted by Spirit of '67
Bell stands in the competition for Greatest Sports Car Driver, and has few if any peers in that category.

[EcosseF1]

Derek Bell is undoubtedly a talented sports car racer but to say he has few, if any peers is ridiculous. Look who he shared most of those Le Mans victories with, a certain J.Ickx! I would also argue that Pedro Rodriguez or Stirling Moss rank higher than Bell as sports car aces.

Bell has always struck me as rather conceited. "My Racing Life" has a comment about how he would have conquered F1 if only etc...

[Option1]

Hmmm, I suspect Spirit of 67 has a case of fan-blindness, but that's understandable as we all do at times. I like Derek Bell, he's more erudite than most and he has achieved much in racing and his in-car commentary does help promote the sport, but the "I've never lost a position in a race through fault of my own..." is, ummm, shall we say, bemusing.;)

Neil

[fines]

Originally posted by nick stone
"... I've been reluctant to say this until now but I've never lost a position in a race through fault of my own since 1971."

I find this an extraordinary achievement (...)

Extraordinary achievement? Hmm... sounds more like extraordinary bullshit to me! Unless, of course, it's been said with the tongue firmly in cheek!

[Spirit of '67]

Re: EcosseF1, actually, I'm a bigger fan of Moss than Bell, if anything - but as far as World Championship Sports Car races, much less championships, The Hawk - sorry, Derek has Sir Stirling whupped, end of story. No one here would seriously contemplate saying that Sir Stirling was not the better driver, though I would say a certain Juan Manuel Fangio of Balcarce had the beating of him during most of their career parallel years. A top finish in the Mille Miglia with only one wheel steering would be enough, but to be three mph slower in the '55 Mille DRIVING ALONE pretty much seals the bet. And if Derek was "helped" by having great co-drivers, only one actually had a similar record over time, and not as much time at that - and that would of course be Mr. Ickx - did not Derek as surely "help" them as well?
So would someone please point out the driver who makes NO "egotistical" statements in their autobiography, please - especially ones like this, which sound like a firmly entrenched tongue in a ruefully smiling cheek, as is this reply?

[Ray Bell]

Ah yes, I remember '67 well... GPL fan eh?

Spirit... welcome to the forum. And welcome to minor corrections and additions to what you post...

Apart from driving alone, Fangio had a car problem during that Mille Miglia. If you recall, Moss didn't know he'd passed him because the car was stopped and surrounded by people.

[Doug Nye]

Fangio was pretty confident of his personal ability on an open road, in daylight, and over a distance easily covered in one day...

....have you ever noticed how much quicker a car goes when you drive it alone, without the weight of any passengers.... ???

DCN

[Arturo Pereira]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Fangio was pretty confident of his personal ability on an open road, in daylight, and over a distance easily covered in one day...

....have you ever noticed how much quicker a car goes when you drive it alone, without the weight of any passengers.... ???

DCN

Are you meaning that Moss' passenger could be considered as a useless weight ???

Arturo

[RSNS]

Derek Bell aknowledged that Ickx was faster than he was.

He always seemed to me quite a sportsman, not a bit arrogant. But, of course, he was confident on his powers, and he is quite entitled to that - the record speaks for itself.

And, of course, Siffert and Rodriguez were faster than him too. And Beloff.

About Fangio and Moss and the Mille Miglia, there was the problem of the misfiring engine - the 7 cylinder thing. Certainly that amounted to something.

[EcosseF1]

Spirit,

Reading back, my post sounds a bit harsh... I quite agree with you about the merits of Fangio v Moss and it was never my intent to suggest people should not have ego's!

I had a poster of the winning Bell/Ickx 956 from 1982 on my wall for years and wouldn't have bought his book if I didn't like the man.

[masterhit]

Best ever is of course subjective and unprovable. Which is best - the three day grands prix of the past or today's two hour grand prix? Do the old three day grand prix qualify as sports car races? And so on ad infinitum getting nowhere as these things are by their nature subjective.

What is pretty unarguable however is that he was a great in his chosen field. I think he'd settle for being described as one of the greats.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by masterhit
.....What is pretty unarguable however is that he was a great in his chosen field. I think he'd settle for being described as one of the greats.

'Very good' perhaps, if not 'great', or maybe 'one of the best'...

I think Derek would be happy simply to be remembered as a winner and one who conquered in many spheres of the sport.

Must try again to get him to join us on TNF...

[masterhit]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


I think Derek would be happy simply to be remembered as a winner and one who conquered in many spheres of the sport.

Must try again to get him to join us on TNF...

Great stuff.

If anyone can convince Derek to join TNF, it has to be you Ray - with you both having the Bell family name in common.

[Ray Bell]

And sons named Justin...

Okay, I've e.mailed him, I hope his e.mail address hasn't changed in the past three years!

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by nick stone
In a article in the July issue of CAR magzine, Derek tells his interviewer that:

"... I've been reluctant to say this until now but I've never lost a position in a race through fault of my own since 1971."

I find this an extraordinary achievement considering the length of his career and the quality of the competition he has met in this time. Surely there can be no other driver - extant or otherwise - that could come close to such a claim.

Does this make him the best ever?

Derek is being modest. For in the GP of Israel 1970 thread we find that "The drivers, meanwhile, managed to organise a "race" in Jerusalem on Saturday, with Derek Bell (Camel) winning from Vittorio Brambilla (Donkey) and Xavier Perrot (Camel)!"

So the streak began in 1970 and on a ruminant quadruped too!

[james27w]

"No fault of his own". What a joke.The joke was on anyone who watched his relatively monotonous
type of driving.Was he good? Yes, in his day he was a decent driver but he very early on was shown the door in F.1. Ickx,Rodriguez,Peterson,Andretti and many others went by the guy like he was going backwards at the races I went to.Ickx even complained to John Wyer or whoever was team manager to that they should pull Bell in because he was too slow.They did and because of that Ickx won that years' Le Mans. I have never heard such an arrogant comment from a driver before.

[Ray Bell]

It comes to mind that Derek was one of the players in one of the great moments I've enjoyed in many years trackside. I've mentioned it all before... more than once...

http://www.atlasf1.c...=&postid=908309

http://www.atlasf1.c...=&postid=657851

The first is on a thread about the Tasman Dinos, the second about 'being there'...

The Most Spectacular: A difficult one, but I remain addicted to the same location and the same era, though the following year... Piers Courage sliding the bi-wing Brabham DFV off the Crossing, nose in the air and the DFV howling like Duckworth had always expected. With a deft flick he turned the direction of the slide, the power still full on, so that he was coming round out left hander with a couple of feet extra radius to the turn for the rear wheels compared to the fronts. The nose of the thing in the air under the sheer torque being fed through the crownwheel, it suddenly dipped, the sound ceased for just a fraction, the whole car stepped sideways about a foot, maybe two, then the noise, the whole shebang resumed in the next gear... Piers was on his way! Obviously he changed ratios later, but we were treated to three or four laps of this, as we were by Derek Bell in his little Ferrari later in the day... Amazingly, I think this sight, reserved for just two or three people, overshadows all that Rindt did in the rain the next day!