46 replies to this topic

[Jason]

How do they compare against each other?

Also, will there be a GP5? Indications are that F1C99-02 will be the last F1 title from EA for a while.

[kanec]

Purely subjective I guess but I find F1C is very challenging. GP4 I just didn't find any fun at all.

Mind you I couldn't make a setup to save myself.

Sony has the license for F1. No more current year(?) F1 games for PC for a while.

[Amrl]

I remember thinking GP4 was horrible when I tried it, the cars were going on rails and the player has no control over things. F1C on the other hand can be lots of fun

I think I heard some developer team is going to make an F1 sim, ofcourse the drivers, tracks and all would have to have imaginary names but I bet it'll be easy to make a season patch that changes them.

[Jason]

Thanks for the input, guys. It confirms what I've read: http://www.gpx.it/ar...rticle=00000070

Compared to GP4, F1 Challenge's physics seem more accurate. The default physics for Geoff Crammond's game are extremely forgiving. The car is glued down, and often feels like it's 'on rails'. You can go way too fast into a corner and emerge in the right place at the right time. It's rare to suffer understeer and there's too much high speed grip. You never feel like you're going to loose it unless you're over the limit, but it is difficult to go fast consistently.
The only way to play GP4 as a sim is to download new physics, use different car set-ups to the default ones and mess around with the controller options. This can take time, but results in a far more accurate feeling.

Sounds like with a bit of work GP4 can be quite good.

RE F1 licensing: F1 sims, made for the PC, can always be modified to reflect the actual teams/drivers for any particular season, so that's shouldn't be a major obstacle. Anyone notice this interesting project: http://www.gamespape...pwithF1si.shtml
Now that EA is out of the picture, I think GP5 may be our best hope for the next decent F1 sim.

[Mat]

I think both a very different games. F199-02 is definately a harder game, but I get a better sense of immersion in GP4. Which one is more realistic? I have know idea. Somewhere inthe middle i suspect.

Im not sure if it's my setups, but I can never actually lean on the tyres in F199-02. It will always result in a spin. Yet, in GP4, i can virtually lean on the tyres as much as i like and hardly ever spin.

Mat

[jake]

Considering I am a business person and work for a living - which means I SUCK at driving an F1 car (on the computer that is), I always found GP4 a bit too easy even for me in terms of keeping it on the island. Example: I am ALWAYS flat on Eau Rouge - never spin. In fact, the only time you seem to spin is if you take a curb at virtually 90 degrees going really fast.

On the other hand - I have not tried F1Challenge yet, but, I have it's predecessor f12002 and it is the opposite - really hard not to spin (although I haven't really mastered Set-up). I also found that the time differentials between 1st and the rear of the pack are always too large 10 seconds plus usually.

However, I understand that F1Challenge is MUCH better than it's predecessor in terms of physics, sound, graphics, AI etc. Is this TRUE????

[jake]

Oh, and one more thing,

I should have added the fact that GP4 is annoying to play given its constant program crash that sends me out of the game. I've tried downloading the patch. Alas, it then tells me to install
Direct X, which of course is the first thing I do. It does not seem to recognize it though!

[Exar Kun]

I much prefer GP4's graphics engine - it seems much smoother (apart from the stupid locked framerate thing) and the wet weather effects are simply stunning. But when it comes to most everything else I think the EA game is the winner. It feels more rewarding to drive - the sense of immersion is (mostly) much better (GP4 has a tyre managed aspect that is sorely lacking from all the EA releases). In F1C you can set the upchanges to be auto and downchanges to be manual, it has that funky traction control sound (which I hate in real life but is great in the game) and you can actually drive the car in the pits (it is a stupid thing in the GPx games that you can't do this...). You can also do the formation lap and installation laps before a race in F1C. But... F1C is much harder on the processor and graphics card and I still think the AI aren't quite up there with GP4's but very close - a bit subjective with this matter I reckon. Overall I obviously prefer F1C

[ehagar]

With all of the add ons the EA series is a much better bargain.

[Enkei]

Real F1 vs F1 Challenge

Spain:
http://tdg.m4driving..._comparison.wmv

Melbourne:
http://tdg.m4driving..._comparison.wmv

[A3]

Sweet !

[RRT1963]

How do I configure a logitech wingman game pad for F1 Challenge?

[mahelgel]

really nice comparison videos... not that i can drive like that in f1-challenge

[LuckyStrike1]

So are there a lot of downloads for F1CC99-02 avaible on the net?

I find that is one of the strengths with the GP-series. With all the downloads it's like you can almost create a new game out of it which is nice. I know there are downloads to F1 2002 from EA - are they any good and are they as easy to install and play around with as the ones to the GP-series?

I would like to give F1 challenge a go if there are downloads to upgrade the game with - I like the career aspect in it.

[kanec]

Originally posted by LuckyStrike1
So are there a lot of downloads for F1CC99-02 avaible on the net?

I find that is one of the strengths with the GP-series. With all the downloads it's like you can almost create a new game out of it which is nice. I know there are downloads to F1 2002 from EA - are they any good and are they as easy to install and play around with as the ones to the GP-series?

I would like to give F1 challenge a go if there are downloads to upgrade the game with - I like the career aspect in it.

There's no career aspect on the PC version.

There's already quite a few bits and pieces that you can download for F1C - tobacco skins, new carsets, entire 2003 season, track updates, etc. The really good stuff is the mods however that will be coming out down the line.

[Jason]

Originally posted by kanec


There's no career aspect on the PC version.

There's already quite a few bits and pieces that you can download for F1C - tobacco skins, new carsets, entire 2003 season, track updates, etc. The really good stuff is the mods however that will be coming out down the line.

Yup. I was disappointed to find this wasn't included. I guess the console version of F1C99-02 has some type of career mode. Anyone remember MRSGP2? I seem to remember this game having a career mode of some sort.

BTW, there's plently of F1C99-02 downloads at the following site: http://www.gpx.it/

[Jason]

Originally posted by Enkei
Real F1 vs F1 Challenge

Spain:
http://tdg.m4driving..._comparison.wmv

Melbourne:
http://tdg.m4driving..._comparison.wmv

Nice comparison.

You can find Real F1 vs GP4 at the following site: http://www.racingren...ges/videos.html

[davegp3]

I think F1 Challenge is overall better than GP4.
Mainly because of the MODs and easy-edit tracks.

Just look here>



http://www.teamspeed.../F1/f1cmod.html


But I have graphics problem in F1C: in TV camera view, when car is far away, driver helmet is flickering, is almost transparent and non-visible, and front tyres partly too . When car goes close to camera, it is OK.
I have MSI G4Mx440 graphics card with new drivers, so i don't know what's the problem.

Can anyone help me?

[A3]

Originally posted by davegp3
But I have graphics problem in F1C: in TV camera view, when car is far away, driver helmet is flickering, is almost transparent and non-visible, and front tyres partly too . When car goes close to camera, it is OK.
I have MSI G4Mx440 graphics card with new drivers, so i don't know what's the problem.

Can anyone help me?

Same problem, I suspect it's a driver issue. GeForce 2 GTS 32Mb.

[davegp3]

Originally posted by A3


Same problem, I suspect it's a driver issue. GeForce 2 GTS 32Mb.

It is really annoying, i don't understand, because almost everybody has nVidia video card, so why they didin't test it properly? You cannot watch the race from this camera, because it is ugly.

[quintin cloud]

Originally posted by jake
Oh, and one more thing,

I should have added the fact that GP4 is annoying to play given its constant program crash that sends me out of the game. I've tried downloading the patch. Alas, it then tells me to install
Direct X, which of course is the first thing I do. It does not seem to recognize it though!

To fix the Direct X problem you must just reconfigure or make link to the gp4.exe file in the gp4 sub-directory, the problem is in the splash opening screen.

[jake]

Quintin,

THANKS

One stupid question though ... sorry for my ignorance ... how would I do this.

[quintin cloud]

Ok hear we go:

Get your computer look like it has just finished loading up, no programs running, just your icons and your background showing.

1: Now right click your mouse and menu should appear go to NEW
2: Then click on the shortcut icon
3: Now it should say create a shortcut - Now you must enter a command line - which is easy
4: click the Browse... button
5: find your GP4 sub-directory
6: then click on GP4.exe
7: then click open
8: then click next
9: now it should say gp4.exe in the block - now you change it to " Play Grand Prix 4 "
10: then click finish.

and it's done.

[jake]

THANKS!!!! Learn something everyday.

By the way - visited your web site. Well Done. Lots of info, nicely presented!!!

[HardRock]

Today I bought F1C and all I can say what a crapy game, there is nothing new in this game,
I have F1 2000 - 2001 and 2002 and they are all the same including F1C. All crap.
Graphics are bad, physics are bad and the online game is bad as well, and I'm using broadband
connection. I always say the same: this is the last time that I buy a F1 racing game from EA sports, and I end wasting my money.

[MrSlow]

Originally posted by HardRock
Today I bought F1C and all I can say what a crapy game, there is nothing new in this game,
I have F1 2000 - 2001 and 2002 and they are all the same including F1C. All crap.
Graphics are bad, physics are bad and the online game is bad as well, and I'm using broadband
connection. I always say the same: this is the last time that I buy a F1 racing game from EA sports, and I end wasting my money.

Just out of curiosity - do you have any racing game that you think is good? If yes, wich one?

[Jason]

Originally posted by HardRock
Today I bought F1C and all I can say what a crapy game, there is nothing new in this game,
I have F1 2000 - 2001 and 2002 and they are all the same including F1C. All crap.
Graphics are bad, physics are bad and the online game is bad as well, and I'm using broadband
connection. I always say the same: this is the last time that I buy a F1 racing game from EA sports, and I end wasting my money.

I think the graphics are so-so. I suspect opinions in this area will vary depending on the hardware one has. What don't you like about the physics? I agree the online aspect could've been done better, but you should remember that most F1 titles don't even have this option. BTW, F1C99-02 is EA's last F1 title for the foreseeable future. So, you don't have to worry about your last statement.;)

[GDoering]

The difference between the two games is in the physics. GP4 does have nice graphics (so does F1C) and weather effects but the actual driving is nowhere near F1 Challenge. You can spin in GP4 but the spins feel canned. In F1C you feel like you are in control of the car and if you start to spin you can opposite lock out of it. F1C is a harder game to master but it's much more rewarding when you get it right. I tried to play GP4 for awhile but always felt like I was playing an arcade game instead of a simulation. Although I've never actually driven and F1 car ;), F1C definitely feels how you would expect an F1 car to feel.

[MrSlow]

Originally posted by GDoering
Although I've never actually driven and F1 car ;), F1C definitely feels how you would expect an F1 car to feel.

I agree. I had F1 2001 & 2002 but F1 2001 did not make many hours on my comp, it was pretty lousy and nowhere near GPL for instance. F 2002 was a bit better, but still it did not "talk" to me. The GT mod for 2002 was great though IMO.

But F1C is another thing completely! Suddenly the cars behave as I expect a F1 car to behave. It is not perfect, but very good. It is a great feeling to drive on the limit with a good setup. Online it is ok if the server has enough bandwidth, I have run a race with 18 cars without problem.

Braking is a bit to easy though. I hear the real drivers talk a lot about stabiblity under braking, that is not a problem in F1C. I miss the adreanalin coming into Parabolica or the hairpin at Rouen with GPL, braking was a very maybe the most difficult thing to learn. In F1C you just need to spot the right place for slamming them and wait until it is time to turn in....

[davegp3]

Originally posted by MrSlow


Braking is a bit to easy though. I hear the real drivers talk a lot about stabiblity under braking, that is not a problem in F1C. I miss the adreanalin coming into Parabolica or the hairpin at Rouen with GPL, braking was a very maybe the most difficult thing to learn. In F1C you just need to spot the right place for slamming them and wait until it is time to turn in....

Do you have F4- stability aid off? Or anti lock brakes off? I think it is quite difficult without all these aids.


But i have another problem.
I played Spa 2002 yesterday, and the AI was terrible. At most of the other circuits it is OK, but in Spa they are lapping 1:55s on 100% difficulty. I watch them, they are off the ideal line, braking for example in Blanchimont where you have to only lift, not brake.

[MrSlow]

No, auto clutch is the only aid I use. Straightline braking is just plain simple.

[GDoering]

Originally posted by MrSlow
No, auto clutch is the only aid I use. Straightline braking is just plain simple.

I agree that braking is probably too easy especially if you have your setup right. The one turn that has caused me problems is La Source but once I got my setup worked out then it wasn't an issue. Of course braking in GPL compared to a modern F1 car is completely different.

[laba-laba]

Originally posted by HardRock
Today I bought F1C and all I can say what a crapy game, there is nothing new in this game,
I have F1 2000 - 2001 and 2002 and they are all the same including F1C. All crap.
Graphics are bad, physics are bad and the online game is bad as well, and I'm using broadband
connection. I always say the same: this is the last time that I buy a F1 racing game from EA sports, and I end wasting my money.

U must turn off helps.

im a BIG F1 racing game fans. GP4 its to easy for me. not really realistic. F1C is more realistic than f12002 and GP4. You can felt the accelerations if u pass the corner, 0 to 100 km/s, etc.

In GP4 u just slowing ur speed if u cannot turn right/left. but in F1C u cant do that if ur car isnt have good balance, good braking balance, etc. or have good reaction for playing steeringwheel.

The graphics is good but not a greatest, if u have greatest PC
The IA is not to bad, but still not good as i want.

Sorry for my english.

[A3]

Originally posted by MrSlow
No, auto clutch is the only aid I use. Straightline braking is just plain simple.

Download Dom's Monza setup from here (need to log in to see attachment), try it and come back and tell me again that braking is easy with no aids.

[HardRock]

Originally posted by MrSlow


Just out of curiosity - do you have any racing game that you think is good? If yes, wich one?

I have most of the racing games that have come out for PC.
The ones that I enjoyed most were GP2 and Sports Car GT.
Old games I know but, what can I do, I like them.
Mainly what I like most of the GP series is the AI that I find the best in a racing game
so you can realy have fun racing.
This is just my opinion of course ;)

[HardRock]

Originally posted by Jason

I think the graphics are so-so. I suspect opinions in this area will vary depending on the hardware one has. What don't you like about the physics? I agree the online aspect could've been done better, but you should remember that most F1 titles don't even have this option. BTW, F1C99-02 is EA's last F1 title for the foreseeable future. So, you don't have to worry about your last statement.;)

I played online with a broadband connection and even so you could see the other cars
jumping all over the screen. I rather not to have this option alltogether if this is the kind
of online racing game you can have.
About the physics the car slide like a rally car, and oversteer to much in fast corners.
Again this is just my opinion.

[MrSlow]

Originally posted by HardRock


I played online with a broadband connection and even so you could see the other cars
jumping all over the screen. I rather not to have this option alltogether if this is the kind
of online racing game you can have.
About the physics the car slide like a rally car, and oversteer to much in fast corners.
Again this is just my opinion.

The server is important. If someone hosts 8 players on a 56k connection, it does not matter how broad your band is As I said, I have done smooth crosscountry races with almost a full field, so multi is not useless. It is not as good as GPL/NASCAR 2003, but quite good.

Lastly, if you think it drives like rally car, add some wing
Seriously, with a bad setup, the car will behave badly. The default ones are, IMO, useless.
But if you don't like, you don't

[Yossarian]

Originally posted by GDoering
The difference between the two games is in the physics. GP4 does have nice graphics (so does F1C) and weather effects but the actual driving is nowhere near F1 Challenge. You can spin in GP4 but the spins feel canned.

Agree with that, the handling in GP4 just feels a bit artificial. I havent tried F1c yet but the comments sounds good.

[Jason]

Originally posted by MrSlow


The server is important. If someone hosts 8 players on a 56k connection, it does not matter how broad your band is As I said, I have done smooth crosscountry races with almost a full field, so multi is not useless. It is not as good as GPL/NASCAR 2003, but quite good.

Lastly, if you think it drives like rally car, add some wing
Seriously, with a bad setup, the car will behave badly. The default ones are, IMO, useless.
But if you don't like, you don't

Those are some good points. I agree, the original setups are worthless. After a bit of tweaking, I found the car more driveable. I still have my doubt about it's online capability. I have cable, and even when I connect to a server with a good ping, it still doesn't run too smooth. Another thing that annoys me is if someone has a bad connection, it's bad enough seeing their car jump around, but then there's that "connetion icon" that pops up. This there a way to disabling these icons?

Despite being spoiled by Papyrus' (GPL and NR2003) excellent physics and online playability, I still think F1C99-02 is worthwhile.

[MrSlow]

Ping is not saying anything about the available bandwidth on the server, just the response time.
There is a lot of tweaks that can be done in the .plr file to improve online play, but the most important thing is that "server guy" make sure to limit the datarate so it fits the connection.

At F1RST it is easy to set the datarate when creating a game, and it is neccesary to do so. I think default datarate is 30, but that is unneccesary. Better to set the rate to 7-10 or something low.
Apart from the fact that the server needs to have good bandwidth, 2MB is enough for 8-10 cars, 10MB for a full field, the server need to have some power as well.

If the server don't have a good CPU, it will struggle to run the game inernally (unfortunately, there is no standalone server) and that will spread throughout the chain.

It is also a good idea to set a pinglimit on the server, so that people on lousy connections from the other side of the globe can't connect. If everyone has less than 200ms in ping to the server, it works very well.

[maclaren]

Originally posted by Amrl
I remember thinking GP4 was horrible when I tried it, the cars were going on rails and the player has no control over things. F1C on the other hand can be lots of fun

This is normal impression.

But with good setup and wheel settings GP4 can be a lot of fun. Yes you don't slide much but how do real F1 slide? In both GP4 and real when you push to the limits and the car slips little bit and that's the fastest way to got.

I would say following things should be better in GP4:
- stupid black flags when you outbrake yourself in chicane
- no internetplay
- coud have some TC, camber and pressure setting

[Jason]

Originally posted by MrSlow
Ping is not saying anything about the available bandwidth on the server, just the response time.
There is a lot of tweaks that can be done in the .plr file to improve online play, but the most important thing is that "server guy" make sure to limit the datarate so it fits the connection.

At F1RST it is easy to set the datarate when creating a game, and it is neccesary to do so. I think default datarate is 30, but that is unneccesary. Better to set the rate to 7-10 or something low.
Apart from the fact that the server needs to have good bandwidth, 2MB is enough for 8-10 cars, 10MB for a full field, the server need to have some power as well.

If the server don't have a good CPU, it will struggle to run the game inernally (unfortunately, there is no standalone server) and that will spread throughout the chain.

It is also a good idea to set a pinglimit on the server, so that people on lousy connections from the other side of the globe can't connect. If everyone has less than 200ms in ping to the server, it works very well.

Thanks for the info. BTW, is there any way to get rid of the connection icon?

[A3]

Originally posted by maclaren

Yes you don't slide much but how do real F1 slide? In both GP4 and real when you push to the limits and the car slips little bit and that's the fastest way to got.

I remember an interview, I believe it was Jenson Button who said that in an F1 car they're constantly correcting slides, it's something you don't see on tv, but it's there.

Btw, from onboard shots during races you can often see how much the cars slide.

[A3]

Look at the steering movements from Schumacher and Montoya in this movie from the start of the Hungarian GP:
http://f1.tottoro.hu.../04_montoya.avi

[A Wheel Nut]

I've only just started playing F1C in the last week or so. I started out at Imola in a 2002 Renault and was clocking times in the 1.27's - on a perfect lap. Jumped in the F2002 and on my first lap I managed a mid 1.24. Both cars felt entirely different and I hadn't even touched the set up on either.

I then went to Melbourne with the same Ferrari and could only manage a mid 1.40. I kept losing the rear end when I tried to attack the corners. I had a look at the setup guide in the back of the manual, made the changes that I felt were necessary, and my first lap was five seconds faster. A few more laps and I had managed a 1.34 flat.

I gained 6.5 seconds simply through set up changes. Of course, where I previously had a car that would spin at the slightest of provocation, I now had a car that bounced heavily, yet remained straight, if I attacked the curbs.

Now I'm trying to smooth out the ride as I'm certain that its costing me time.

In short F1C is a whole heap of fun.

[laba-laba]

Originally posted by davegp3



It is really annoying, i don't understand, because almost everybody has nVidia video card, so why they didin't test it properly? You cannot watch the race from this camera, because it is ugly.

do u using 16bit color ? change to 32 bit color. i have that problem too with my GF2 MX. but now im using ASUS ATI 9600XT.

[laba-laba]

first i play GP1, i said. "wow.. this is cool game." GP series have good progress with GP2. GP3. but stepback with GP4. GP4 using old engine (GP3). OLD AI driver.

F!C 99-02 have good engine. but, with 2003 RH loose taste of driving idont like to driver 2003RH. i like with 2003RH is driver more ugly.

F!C is not ferfect yet. still have bugs with car handling. if Sonny dont have lincence game for F1, we can taste F1 2003/04 by EAs rightnow.


with GP4. just have a good graphics. thats all. its easy to drive.