119 replies to this topic

[scs]

hi..today i was reading very funny stuff about Schumi at a turkish anti page and i saw these pictures of a young Schumi and Senna..(by the way i am not an anti)

http://www25.brinkst...qnt/f1/tirs.jpg
http://www25.brinkst...t/f1/sumsuk.jpg

but there wasn't an explanation of that pictures..so i thought someone can tell me the reason why Senna looked so angry?

I am sorry if that's something very familier to , but at that time F1 wasn' popular as it is now here in Turkey..

sorry for being this ignorant.

[sschinning]

It's definitely from the 91 season. But i can't remember anything about this!

[Rob G]

HTTP1.1 STATUS 403 Remote Access to this object forbidden This file cannot be directly accessed from a remote site, but must be linked through the Brinkster Member's site.

[ren]

Could also be from France '92.

Schumacher and Senna collided on the first lap and Senna wasn't too happy about it (obviously ). Can't remember any details unfortunately.

[Dolph]

u can't access the link directly. copy it to u'r address bar

[aportinga]

Originally posted by Rob G

Ditto.....

Check out this "gypsy family" in the pits!

Click Here

[Fortymark]

Are you really surprized?
Schumacher have been dirty all his racing career.
Derek Warwick wanted to lynch him after that sportscar manouvre MS did on him.
This is after hockenheim -92 practise, MS brake tested AS in high speed.

MS have an long list of dirty/dangerous moves and not seldom in high speed.

[aportinga]

Originally posted by Dolph
u can't access the link directly. copy it to u'r address bar

Thanks

[aportinga]

Originally posted by Fortymark
Are you really surprized?
Schumacher have been dirty all his racing career.
Derek Warwick wanted to lynch him after that sportscar manouvre MS did on him.
This is after hockenheim -92 practise, MS brake tested AS in high speed.

MS have an long list of dirty/dangerous moves and not seldom in high speed.

So had Senna so what's your point........ Oh you're bashing - nevermind.

[neil.dorrel]

Originally posted by Fortymark
Are you really surprized?
Schumacher have been dirty all his racing career.
Derek Warwick wanted to lynch him after that sportscar manouvre MS did on him.
This is after hockenheim -92 practise, MS brake tested AS in high speed.

MS have an long list of dirty/dangerous moves and not seldom in high speed.

Your usual selective memory and objective reporting, fortymark.

MS learned from the best: Ayrton Senna himself. Schumacher doesn't seem to have gained the same level of professional mastery as AS, though.

[molive]

I can't see the pics (even copying the link)!


And, regarding, AS's moves, he learned them with Prost.;)

[neil.dorrel]

Originally posted by molive
I can't see the pics (even copying the link)!


And, regarding, AS's moves, he learned them with Prost.;)

I'd agree with you that AS felt these tactics were necessary in order to beat Prost.

[Fortymark]

Originally posted by aportinga



So had Senna so what's your point........ Oh you're bashing - nevermind.

I´m not bashing.
My opinion is that they are far apart. AS was very tough but almost 100% fair in his moves.
MS on the other hand is seldom fair.

[Henri Greuter]

Fortymark quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by aportinga



So had Senna so what's your point........ Oh you're bashing - nevermind.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I´m not bashing.
My opinion is that they are far apart. AS was very tough but almost 100% fair in his moves.
MS on the other hand is seldom fair.


=====



Wanted to react on this one but on second thoughts, better not.
That must say enough....



Henri Greuter

[neil.dorrel]

Originally posted by Fortymark


I´m not bashing.
My opinion is that they are far apart. AS was very tough but almost 100% fair in his moves.
MS on the other hand is seldom fair.

AS 100% fair in his moves?! What about all the times he drove other drivers off the track deliberately? This is TOO funny... I have to stop... Al the laughter is causing my stoch to hurt...

You are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO funny! Or maybe just a garden variet MORON!

[neil.dorrel]

Originally posted by Fortymark


I´m not bashing.
My opinion is that they are far apart. AS was very tough but almost 100% fair in his moves.
MS on the other hand is seldom fair.

AS 100% fair in his moves?! What about all the times he drove other drivers off the track deliberately? This is TOO funny... I have to stop... Al the laughter is causing my stoch to hurt...

You are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO funny! Or maybe just a garden variety MORON!

[molive]

Originally posted by neil.dorrel

What about all the times he drove other drivers off the track deliberately?

How many times have Senna deliberately taken other driver of the track?

Answer: one . And that was over Prost, who had done the same thing to him a year before (albeit in a much slower corner).

Obviously, MS took that to another level when he rammed a fair-player Hill in 94 and failed to do so again with also fair-player Villeneuve at Spain.;)

[flyingfin]

i can't find any pics

[flyingfin]

i can't find any pics
site gives error

[f1fan]

Originally posted by Fortymark


I´m not bashing.
My opinion is that they are far apart. AS was very tough but almost 100% fair in his moves.
MS on the other hand is seldom fair.

yeah i am sure prost would agree with you !

[juanftoro]

Originally posted by molive


How many times have Senna deliberately taken other driver of the track?

Answer: one . And that was over Prost, who had done the same thing to him a year before (albeit in a much slower corner).

Obviously, MS took that to another level when he rammed a fair-player Hill in 94 and failed to do so again with also fair-player Villeneuve at Spain.;)

It is good to read this once in a while, it reminds me why I really dislike MS.

PD: and what about taking out Mika in Macau??

[AtlanticRacer]

okay people. we understand that both guys can get a little dirty sometimes.... but the underlying question is, where are these pictures from? I remember at Brazil in 92, i think, Senna was slower than Schu but he couldnt get past and when he finally did Senna passed him right back. Schu was voisterous about it so maybe this is when it is from?

[MrSlow]

Those of you who first clicked the link, then pasted the url and don't get the pics: cache.
Reload or put a ? after the .jpg

I have a movie clip where Schmi runs into Sennas right rear tyre and puts Senna out of the race. After that incident there is an intense discussion between Senna and Schumi, but Senna is not wearing his racing suit like he does in those pictures. The clip can be found at (or could) http://www.seasonf1.com/ but at the moment I can not connect to that site ("Too many users").

[Just me]

Originally posted by molive


How many times have Senna deliberately taken other driver of the track?

Answer: one . And that was over Prost, who had done the same thing to him a year before (albeit in a much slower corner).

I am sure Mansell would agree with you,not.:

[neil.dorrel]

Originally posted by molive


How many times have Senna deliberately taken other driver of the track?

Answer: one . And that was over Prost, who had done the same thing to him a year before (albeit in a much slower corner).

I guess the difference to me is that Senna declared his intention to ram Prost, did in fact ram Prost, wasn't punished or sanctioned in any way, became WDC, and had the unmitigated gall to later proclaim that he deserved the title anyway because he was forced to start on the dirty side of the track. And so many people failed to hold him responsible in any way whatsoever. Incredulous.

MS, on the other hand, comitted his acts in the heat of the moment, was excluded from the '97 results (yeah, I know, big deal), was publicly castigated, and had the hubris to not parade around in a contrite manner after the incidents.

That's the difference.

[neil.dorrel]

Originally posted by juanftoro


PD: and what about taking out Mika in Macau??

What the hell are you talking about? Mika crashed in an unforced error while trying to pass MS. All Mika had to do in order to win the title was finish behind MS, but he chose to go for a win. Hats off to trying, but he took himself off.

Have you ever actually seen the race?

[Rene]

Originally posted by scs
hi..today i was reading very funny stuff about Schumi at a turkish anti page and i saw these pictures of a young Schumi and Senna..(by the way i am not an anti)

http://www25.brinkst...qnt/f1/tirs.jpg
http://www25.brinkst...t/f1/sumsuk.jpg

but there wasn't an explanation of that pictures..so i thought someone can tell me the reason why Senna looked so angry?

I am sorry if that's something very familier to , but at that time F1 wasn' popular as it is now here in Turkey..

sorry for being this ignorant.

I believe this happened after a practice session where Schumi almost ran Senna off of the track with an aggressive move....Senna was not impressed, and let him know about it....I think Jo Ramierez told a story about this in Atlas last year....

[aportinga]

Originally posted by Fortymark


I´m not bashing.
My opinion is that they are far apart. AS was very tough but almost 100% fair in his moves.
MS on the other hand is seldom fair.

Dude - look at the pics again. Senna went after MS physically. I mean look at MS in the one pic - he looks amayzed over Senna's actions.

And just remember that Senna slugged Irvine. That he also rammed Prost in 1990 and then admitted it was payback.

I respect the guy as far as talent is concerned but at least MS has not hauled off and tried to hit other drivers. Yeah he's intentionally punted them off course but I place more blame on F1 for not doing aything about it rather then MS.

They both have proven to make questionable decisions behind the wheel but Senna's actions were no different (often) then Jimmy Spencer's just last week.

[aportinga]

Originally posted by molive


How many times have Senna deliberately taken other driver of the track?

Answer: one . And that was over Prost, who had done the same thing to him a year before (albeit in a much slower corner).

Obviously, MS took that to another level when he rammed a fair-player Hill in 94 and failed to do so again with also fair-player Villeneuve at Spain.;)

WHAT???

You have got to be kidding! Senna even drove himself off the track and into other drivers - even backmarkers for gods-sake.

[juanftoro]

Originally posted by neil.dorrel


What the hell are you talking about? Mika crashed in an unforced error while trying to pass MS. All Mika had to do in order to win the title was finish behind MS, but he chose to go for a win. Hats off to trying, but he took himself off.

Have you ever actually seen the race?

"In 1990, he had a memorable clash with Michael Schumacher at the Macau Grand Prix, a Formula Three event seen as one of the best springboards for young racers aspiring to the glamour of Formula One.

Hakkinen tried to overtake the German from the inside on the final lap. But Schumacher steered inside and he was knocked out of contention.


As Schumacher rejoiced in victory Hakkinen was seen crying uncontrollably. " From BBC News.

On a interview a couple of years ago, I thnik on F1 Magazine, Hakkinen expressed his disspointment at MS's tactics that day.

Keep your fanaticsm of MS in context. He is and has been a dirty driver. Nothing new here.

[Williams]

Originally posted by Rene


I believe this happened after a practice session where Schumi almost ran Senna off of the track with an aggressive move....Senna was not impressed, and let him know about it....I think Jo Ramierez told a story about this in Atlas last year....

Rene, thanks, I knew I'd read something about this. While some may put this incident down to Senna's fiery temperament, IIRC this was one of Senna's little head games against a posible future rival, and he gave Ramirez a wink and a "watch this" before going over Schumacher to give him a hard time. Looking back at it now, Schumacher should probably consider his treatment a compliment from one of the greatest drivers ever.

[aportinga]

Originally posted by Williams


Rene, thanks, I knew I'd read something about this. While some may put this incident down to Senna's fierly temperament, IIRC this was one of Senna's little head games against a posible future rival, and he gave Ramirez a wink and a "watch this" before going over the Schumacher to give him a hard time.

I agree 100%

Good post

[Williams]

BTW neil.dorrel and jaunftoro would you mind not highjacking the thread please ?

[neil.dorrel]

Sorry.

[scs]

hey believe it or not , i was actually looking for answers when i posted..not some 30 something bashing about schumacher..

thanks Rene for answering and yes i know remember someone mentioned about it here..

sorry , for the ones who couldn't reach the pix , i forgot to mention to paste it..

anyway , thank everyone...

[aportinga]

Wait a minute.....

So we'd rather have a thread with 1 answer to the question and no discussion?

[glorius&victorius]

I can't see the pic's since the "daily limit has been exceeded".....what the hell is that????

[scs]

of course not..

i just wanna learn more..and as being a schumi fan , schumi bashing is not my fav thing to do..

hey sorry again if i sound too harsh..

cheers..

[Amir_S]

Originally posted by Fortymark


I´m not bashing.
My opinion is that they are far apart. AS was very tough but almost 100% fair in his moves.
MS on the other hand is seldom fair.

Utter crap. Senna 100% fair!! The man was my idol before his death and I can tell you that there was nothing 100% fair about him. To claim something like that is ridiculous.

MS learned his craft from the best. And he uses it well. The fact that it bugs the **** out of the likes of you makes it all the more enjoyable.

[pRy]

Originally posted by aportinga

I respect the guy as far as talent is concerned but at least MS has not hauled off and tried to hit other drivers.

Really? He certainly appeared to be ready to lash out at Coulthard after the Spa incident in the wet. The guy had to be restrained physically.

[molive]

Originally posted by glorius&victorius
I can't see the pic's since the "daily limit has been exceeded".....what the hell is that????

me neither:

"The daily bandwidth limit for this customer has been exceeded. Try again after midnight, EST."

Nice server!;)

[MCesio]

Funny that all the people who hate Senna are Schumacher disciples.

[pRy]

Originally posted by Williams


Rene, thanks, I knew I'd read something about this. While some may put this incident down to Senna's fiery temperament, IIRC this was one of Senna's little head games against a posible future rival, and he gave Ramirez a wink and a "watch this" before going over Schumacher to give him a hard time. Looking back at it now, Schumacher should probably consider his treatment a compliment from one of the greatest drivers ever.

Indeed. People need to remember that the era Senna raced F1 in was a special unique era. You had Berger, Senna, Mansell, Prost, Piquet, lots of other drivers who where in a different era. F1 was more about men than boys back then. F1 sorted out the men from the boys. So of course, when Senna felt he was wronged by another drivers lousy driving, he wasn't going to just talk about it in the press, he was going to have a word himself, and back then it was accepted that drivers may go for a walk down the pit lane to have a chat with another driver about this move, and they would both claim they are right and they would move on.

Schumacher came in, the young "kid" who had the ego and attitude and felt he was something hot. Of course he did. And of course Senna was going to show him a few things about F1 and wasn't going to accept him into the sport just like that.

If 1994 is any indication, Senna had accepted Schumacher, but then Senna must have also accepted that F1 had changed for good, and he was in some ways a relic of the past. All his rivals had gone, except Berger, but he was struggling in another team. I'm sure people will comment on how Senna had changed in 1994 too. He was a different man. Of course he was. But I'm quite sure he had at the very least acknowledged that Schumacher was going to at some point replace him.

I just can't shrug the feeling that Senna knew F1 had changed forever during 92, 93, and that his "time" had been prematurely ended. It's like if you imagine playing baseball during the war with your fellow men in your group... you get better and better... day by day, you all improve, and you feel like you are just good enough to beat them in such a way that says "I'm the best".. and then suddenly, all your friends die in the war, or go home, and you are left standing in the middle of the baseball field with your bat, and everyone you ever guaged yourself against, isn't there any more, and you can only think to yourself "dammit come back. I didn't show you yet. I didn't prove I could beat you all and show you I was the best at this sport". It's sad.

And when the new recruits walk over to play, you just walk off, because it's just not the same. Who wants to play with new friends when your old ones are not around anymore.

Now.. you have a sport full of kids.... new rookies who all want a piece of the glory and I think it potentially devalues the sport. I really do worry. What will F1 be like when Michael leaves? It's a scary thought.

And I worry that Schumacher may soon begin to realise that F1 has changed for good once again, and now Schumacher is Senna, the old man who fought against Ayrton Senna, Damon Hill, Mika Hakkinen... and where are they? They left the field. They are never to return.

[neil.dorrel]

Originally posted by MCesio
Funny that all the people who hate Senna are Schumacher disciples.

Vice-versa, too. I'd say that MS fans are fairer to Senna than the other way around.

Senna fans just seem to have such feeble and selective memories, and what they can remember is seen through some heavily-tinted rose-colored glasses.

[neil.dorrel]

Originally posted by pRy


Indeed. People need to remember that the era Senna raced F1 in was a special unique era. You had Berger, Senna, Mansell, Prost, Piquet, lots of other drivers who where in a different era. F1 was more about men than boys back then. F1 sorted out the men from the boys.

Wow. Amazing post. One of the best I've ever read here.

I would add that if Senna, Berger, Mansell, Prost etc. were the generation of men who would eventually be supplanted by boys, then they too supplanted an earlier generation:

The Gentlemen.

[molive]

Where it all started...




Courtesy of Bordereiver.;)

[Henri Greuter]

molive quoite:


Where it all started...


=====

Wasn't that moment.....
It satarted at Imola some months earlier if not before. (like Portugal '88)


Henri Greuter

[aportinga]

Originally posted by pRy


Really? He certainly appeared to be ready to lash out at Coulthard after the Spa incident in the wet. The guy had to be restrained physically.

Many people - not only drivers have to be restrained. IMO most drivers in this case would merely appear to be heading in this direction - with the ultimate means a punch in the face. However most understand the ramifications and will end it before it reaches that point.

Sort of like to guys about ready to fight but do nothing but push each other - maybe poke at each others chest and call names - threaten and so forth. I think MS would have left it there had he not been restrained.

Both are arrogant but Senna by far takes the cake. He thought he was above most others - including the FIA and F1. Therefore I thought he could get away with acting in such a manner. He knew he had F1 by the balls and regardless of what they threw at him, he was in control.

I recall his test with Penske in 1993 - a sort of indirect threat to leave the series. Funny thing about it I also recal MS theatening to leave F1 as well for CART. In both occasions Bernie steped in.

[kanec]

pRy

[Fortymark]

Originally posted by aportinga


Dude - look at the pics again. Senna went after MS physically. I mean look at MS in the one pic - he looks amayzed over Senna's actions.

And just remember that Senna slugged Irvine. That he also rammed Prost in 1990 and then admitted it was payback.

I respect the guy as far as talent is concerned but at least MS has not hauled off and tried to hit other drivers. Yeah he's intentionally punted them off course but I place more blame on F1 for not doing aything about it rather then MS.

They both have proven to make questionable decisions behind the wheel but Senna's actions were no different (often) then Jimmy Spencer's just last week.

Havn´t you seen drivers seeking another one in the pits?
Schumacher after Spa -98? Sato at Monza going to McLaren pits...
Irvine only deserved what he got, it didn´t take long time before he got an race ban after that remember?