70 replies to this topic

[Michael Ferner]

It was not unusual for last minute driver changes to go unnoticed by the press, even specialist magazines or newspapers, like l'Auto. I would suggest that this was the case here, with Friderich stepping in for Cherbuy, and l'Auto failing to notice the change in driver assignment.

[Porsche718]

All the photos that I have found of Bugatti #14 from that race show a mustachioed driver with a narrowish face. But every photo of Ernest Friderich from early in his career and into the '20s show a gent with a clean shaven round face. 

 

     ?                                       Ernest Friderich

 

I don't have a vast array of Bugatti books, so someone with a reliable tome may be able to find an engineer? mechanic? or person involved in the T13 development from the Bugatti factory that may have stepped into the drivers seat for that race.

 

The Bugatti Register lists the event as "#14 Cherbury/Friderich Bugatti T13" so it appears they are having an each-way bet?

[Porsche718]

I found this in the 29th July 1911 edition of the weekly newspaper " l'Echo du Finistere ".

 

 

I think it clearly shows the driver of the second placed Bugatti was Cherbuy, but doesn't suggest how he got the drive or who he was.

 

The previous edition from the 22nd previews the event but there is not mention of the Bugatti team at all. Perhaps suggesting they were not seen as serious contenders. How things changed over the next 2 decades!

[cpbell]

The photo of the driver with the moustache as posted by Porsche718 is similar in appearance to a photo in "Great Marques Bugatti" which was, I think, taken at the end of the race.  It certainly doesn't resemble Friederich.

 

EDIT:  I have found said photo at the folowing link:

https://newatlas.com...-records/38161/

Edited by cpbell, 26 May 2018 - 11:59.

[Porsche718]

I have only seen photos of Ernest Friderich driving in a beret style of head-wear and wearing thick diving gloves. Definitely not what the driver of car 14 is wearing in any of the photos from the event.

 

 

This photo from the start of 1920 Coupe de Voiturettes

Edited by Porsche718, 26 May 2018 - 12:14.

[robert dick]

For comparison - examples showing Friderich before the Great War:
http://www.bugatti-t..._211_2.jpg.html
http://www.bugatti-t...212_10.jpg.html
http://www.bugatti-t...015_34.jpg.html
http://www.bugatti-t..._212_9.jpg.html
http://www.bugatti-t...5_196C.jpg.html

After the war, Friderich was clean-shaven and had gained some weight.
 

[Rob G]

 

I don't have a vast array of Bugatti books, so someone with a reliable tome may be able to find an engineer? mechanic? or person involved in the T13 development from the Bugatti factory that may have stepped into the drivers seat for that race.

 

 

David Venables, in his "Bugatti: A Racing History," specifically states that the identity of the riding mechanic is unknown, and he speaks in detail about Friderich's race. He does say that "the gallant Friderich was being thrown in at the deep end, as it seems this was his first race and his task was not easy."

[Porsche718]

Great portrait of the Bugatti team -

 

[Roger Clark]

Hi all.
 
Trying to clarify the connection of "Cherbuy" with the Friderich Bugatti number 14. I have seen references and photos to a Cherbuy driving the T13 in the event. Was he the riding mechanic?
 

 
 
Thanks in advance, Steve

The mechanic, whoever he is, is carrying the spare wheel.

[robert dick]

From an article written by Ernest Friderich in 1949 for the Bugatti Owners' Club - title: "How the Firm of Bugatti was born" - published in Bugantics 12, 2 and 3, and in Hugh Conway's "Bugatti - Le pur-sang des automobiles":

"... But let us go back to 1911, when, at the suggestion of Monsieur Huet, the Bugatti agent in Paris, I took part in the Grand Prix at Le Mans, for Class 1.4 litre cars. My car was, of course, the 65 mm bore and 100 mm stroke eight valve model of 1,327 cc. Engaged in both classes, large and small, I won the small car race and obtained the 2nd place in the general classification..."
 

[Porsche718]

That's fantastic Robert. Thank you. Then one wonders how this "Cherbuy" thing started?

[68targa]

After seeing pics in the Count down thread in RC and reading some more about this topic I came across this correction from L'Auto 25th July 1911.

 

 

"Let us return to Frederich

A name error slipped yesterday in our account of the Grand Prix de France. The Little Bugatti, who had a good race, was driven by Frederich and not Cherbuy. No one had been aware of the change of pilot, and Cherbuy, in the programme, was held by all for the driver of the Bugatti.

Frederich must be returned to what belongs to him: the merit of having made a splendid race."

[a_tifoosi]

"Ettore Bugatti, l'artisan de Molsheim" (page 224) by Norbert Steinhauser: though two cars were entered through his two agents Huet and Dillon-Kavanagh, only one took the start, driven by Friderich. The second car, which Cherbuy, a collaborator of Dillon-Kavanagh's, was to have driven, could not be prepared in time.

 

Friderich's riding mechanic name was 'Pesse'.

[Porsche718]

International Bugatti Register has Frederich/Cherbuy as finished second. So did Cherbuy co-drive, or was he riding mechanic? 

 

Or perhaps he was in "la taverne" partaking of a baguette and champagne, nowhere near "de l'automobile"

 

Cheers,

 

Steve W

[a_tifoosi]

 

 

 

In this picture, standing up just in front of the "Pneu Russian" ad, we can see Georges Dillon-Kavanagh, general agent of Bugatti in France and colonies from 1911 to 1919. Interestingly, during the race, Bugatti used a communication code using the fingers: 1. essence, 2. huile, 3. eau, 4. pneu, 5. essence & huile, 6. essence, huile & eau, 7. essence, huile & pneu, 8. essence, huile, pneu & eau. This is why, most probably, the riding mechanic is looking towards Dillon-Kavanagh.

 

The mechanic, whoever he is, is carrying the spare wheel.

 

Indeed. After the 6th lap, Friderich had to stop to change a single tyre - as he had no spare tyre in the car. This manoeuver costed him about 6 min, so Bugatti asked the riding mechanic to carry a spare wheel during the remaining of the race.

 

That's fantastic Robert. Thank you. Then one wonders how this "Cherbuy" thing started?

 

As said, Bugatti originally entered two cars: one for Friderich, one for Cherbuy. It's uncertain, but most probably Friderich was entered by Maurice Huet (agent of Bugatti in France and colonies between 1910 and 1911) and Cherbuy by Dillon-Kavanagh (agent in France and colonies from 1911 to 1919). Notice that, during 1911, there were no works entries - that wouldn't happen till May 1912, when Friderich was a works entry in la Sarthe. That originated the confusion.

 

International Bugatti Register has Frederich/Cherbuy as finished second. So did Cherbuy co-drive, or was he riding mechanic? 

 

I am pretty sure that Cherbuy didn't take part in the race and, therefore, Norbert Steinhauser's information ("Ettore Bugatti. L'artisan de Molsheim") is correct. This also agrees with previous posts from 68targa and Robert Dick. The riding mechanic was called 'Pesse' - no idea about his forename.

[bradbury west]

The photo of the driver with the moustache as posted by Porsche718 is similar in appearance to a photo in "Great Marques Bugatti" which was, I think, taken at the end of the race.  It certainly doesn't resemble Friederich.

 

EDIT:  I have found said photo at the folowing link:

https://newatlas.com...-records/38161/

What a marvellous gallery and article. Many thanks for the link. Well worth scrolling through.

Image 18/32 shows a period photographer with his large camera and tripod alongside the road, just like Monsieur Branger would have done. No chance of planning a shot, and the procedure necessary to get the camera  and glass plate  ready for action was not a two minute  operation, cleaning the glass, coating it with the relevant solution etc. before  insertion into the camera body, then the withdrawal operation afterwards.

Roger Lund.

Edited by bradbury west, 19 February 2024 - 22:06.

[68targa]

What a marvellous gallery and article. Many thanks for the link. Well worth scrolling through.

Image 18/32 shows a period photographer with his large camera and tripod alongside the road, just like Monsieur Branger would have done. No chance of planning a shot, and the procedure necessary to get the camera  and glass plate  ready for action was not a two minute  operation, cleaning the glass, coating it with the relevant solution etc. before  insertion into the camera body, then the withdrawal operation afterwards.

Roger Lund.

Which makes all of the images from this period so remarkable. How many photographers were present - two or three at most and the photos have survived .

[Michael Ferner]

 "...and if you tell that to the young people today, they won't believe you..."

[68targa]

The riding mechanic was called 'Pesse' - no idea about his forename.

I wonder if this is the same 'Pesse' - looks to be the same as the photo in post #52.   Here in 1921 in a Fournier cyclecar at the Paris-Nice event . (from BNF Gallica)

 

[a_tifoosi]

I wonder if this is the same 'Pesse' - looks to be the same as the photo in post #52.   Here in 1921 in a Fournier cyclecar at the Paris-Nice event . (from BNF Gallica)

 

Indeed, they look to be the same! So this is the entry list for the Paris-Nice event of 1921:

 

 

Source: L'Auto

 

Most probably the same 'Pessé' took part, riding a motorcycle, in the Circuit des Ardennes 1903 and 1906, the Tour de France 1906, etc. He was even the manufacturer of a cyclecar called Du Guesclin that, apparently, was entered for the cyclecar race of the Grand Prix de l'ACF 1913 - not to be confused with the Duguesclin, by Dugué, from the 30s.

Edited by a_tifoosi, 22 February 2024 - 16:09.

[robert dick]

A candidate for "our" Cherbuy?
In 1909 the garage Cherbuy-Ouachée was an agency for Renault, Peugeot and Unic;
and in December 1912 a monsieur Cherbuy-Ouachée was, alongside Goux and Boillot, among the guests of the banquet Peugeot.