164 replies to this topic

[BRG]

Ok, computers were indeed in use then, although most had slightly less computing power than my new microwave.

[Charlieman]

Don't knock old computers too much! All that computers do is process the instructions given to them, so an old computer can achieve a lot from a well written program. Programs originally written for pounds, shillings and pennies may well process your bank account.

 

Random thoughts...

 

In the wet, cornering radius differences are less significant than in the dry. Cars in those days were designed for zero or positive Ackermann steering which may have camber effects. It's an action photo rather than a forensic one. It is taken in the wet, so possible diffusion effects from the spray.

[Sterzo]

Ok, computers were indeed in use then, although most had slightly less computing power than my new microwave.

There were scientific computers as well as business computers in those days. I'd imagine one of the former at a university would have made mincemeat of any steering and camber-related calculations. But maybe Derek Gardner and a calculator could do it in a few hours anyway.

[Catalina Park]

A twin steer normally runs a different turning radius for the two axles but on a racing car that wouldn't really be needed especially with an oversteering driver or two. You would probably just look at what the pyrometer tells you and go from there.

[Michael Ferner]

Is this taken at The Glen ?  If so, I assume Patrick has perhaps overcooked it exiting the pits and had to put on some opposite lock and judging by Jean-Pierre Jabouille's line, he's getting out of the way of a faster car (  based on the angle of the stripe on his helmet toward his left hand mirror )  given the next corner would be a right hander

 

I'm pretty sure it's the exit of the chicane. Next would be left, then.

[D-Type]

A twin steer normally runs a different turning radius for the two axles but on a racing car that wouldn't really be needed especially with an oversteering driver or two. You would probably just look at what the pyrometer tells you and go from there.

Good point!   The mathematics must have existed within the truck building industry, if only to keep down the tyre wear due to scrub 

[john aston]

Ok, computers .

 

 

Radiohead fan by any chance ? 

[Catalina Park]

Good point!   The mathematics must have existed within the truck building industry, if only to keep down the tyre wear due to scrub 

I've actually spent most of my 40 year truck driving career driving twin steer trucks.

[BRG]

I've actually spent most of my 40 year truck driving career driving twin steer trucks.

Then you ought to be able to sort all this out for us!  

[LittleChris]

I'm pretty sure it's the exit of the chicane. Next would be left, then.

 

Good spot Michael, more background viewable in this version of the photo 

 

Tyrell P34 1977 America GP #4 Patrick Depailler (Model Car) : Amazon.co.uk: Toys & Games

[BRG]

Radiohead fan by any chance ? 

Radiohead?  Are they one of these new-fangled beat combos?  I doubt if they will catch on, not while Edmundo Ros is still going strong.

 

There were scientific computers as well as business computers in those days. I'd imagine one of the former at a university would have made mincemeat of any steering and camber-related calculations. But maybe Derek Gardner and a calculator could do it in a few hours anyway.

I recall that our computer at work back then was installed in a special wood-lined, air-conditioned room and only the chosen few were allowed to even see it.  Out of interest, what computer access might the team have had back then?  Or was it indeed all done on a calculator?

[Charlieman]

I recall that our computer at work back then was installed in a special wood-lined, air-conditioned room and only the chosen few were allowed to even see it.  Out of interest, what computer access might the team have had back then?  Or was it indeed all done on a calculator?

The security obsession about escorted visitors in computer rooms persisted into the 1990s. It was assumed that people might faint when faced by technology, flipping some toggle switches... Nowadays, there is a genuine security problem and there are even fewer escorted visitors.

 

Back in the days of active suspension, I started on the maths (geometry) of a pull rod front end. After 12 pages of calculations, without including any steering effects, I concluded that this wasn't a trivial problem to model. However a 1990s desktop computer could calculate it trivially even using my clunky maths, and a car mounted microprocessor programmed by somebody who knew what they were doing could perform the calculations in near real time.

 

In the same way that F1 teams rented time at university wind tunnels, they had access to computers. A team like Tyrrell could have pulled strings to arrange time on Ford or Elf systems. A DEC PDP, typical university mini computer in 1975, would have been well suited.

 

The suspension could have been designed on paper with a calculator, but it would be very inefficient. A string and cardboard computer (with lots of drawings) would be quicker, if only to establish base points. An electronic analogue computer, using resistors, capacitors and blinking lights, is a further option.

[BRG]

A string and cardboard computer (with lots of drawings) would be quicker, if only to establish base points.

 

Several of my motor club mates rallied Darrians in the 1980s and 90s.  A kit-car designed specifically for tarmac rallying by a bloke called Tim Duffey and built on his farm in Wales.  He used a string computer to design the suspension geometry. The whole car was designed using...let's call it basic technology. The g/f bodywork was laid up in hayloft over the cattle byre (it was nice and warm, with old estate agent's boards laid down to stop the resin dripping onto the beasts below).  Tools were rusty and gnarled - no shiny Snap-On tool-chests.  The only hi-tech thing was a specially laid flat concrete floor in one barn for setting up the cars.  

 

But Darrians won rallies, lots of rallies*, and are still competitive even today.  It is surprising what can be achieved with the most basic and limited technology.  But then, even F1 cars were built that way once!

 

* and even the British GT championship one year!

Edited by BRG, 23 May 2022 - 10:49.

[Doug Nye]

Aaaah nostalgia - The Real Thing...

 

DCN

[Glengavel]

Radiohead fan by any chance ? 

 

Helps calculate how well the P34 goes round The Bends.