39 replies to this topic

[roger_valentine]

At the Goodwood Festival of Speed a few years ago, it was difficult to move without tripping over a Jaguar R1. The was one on the track, one up a pole in the central display, one in the Jaguar marquee, one in the Cosworth marquee, one being used as the cockpit for a games console... it seems that Formula One cars are everywhere these days. My question is, what is the relationship between these 'show cars' and the real thing?

Are they genuine F1 cars merely lacking a few minor mechanical parts like engine and gearbox, or are they essentially 1:1 scale models? Are they constructed to the same exacting standards (of the same materials?) as race cars, or are they constructed to the rather different exacting standards of a car which must withstand the attentions of a million prying finger? Are they, in fact, constructed by the same companies which produce the race cars, or is there a replica manufacturer out there who, in a break from churning out Auto Unions, knocks up the occassional modern F1 car?

And what is the position when these show cars become old enough for historic racing? (Show cars have been around for long enough now for this to have happened). Are they eligible? Is it simply a matter of sticking in an engine and going racing?

Does anyone know the history of the 'show car' phenomenon? Have they always been around, or are they a symptom of modern F1, where it is damn near impossible for fans to get anywhere near the real cars?

[Vitesse2]

The first show car I can remember was a Lotus 49 (R12?) which was built but never raced, at least in period.

[Gary C]

Surely a 'show car' is a 'proper' car without a few essential ingredients, like the engine and gearbox! They are obviously made up from parts that either weren't used or have come to the end of their 'life' on the race cars or test cars. Lotus 49 R12 is exactly that.

[Holger Merten]

Don't forget the Auto Union Typ D, which was as a show car in Prague during the war, and re-created 50 years later.

We had several show cars by Audi. So all Rallye quattros, always with the Rallye bodywork, but normal engines. The same with the Audi V8 quatrro in 1990 -1993. DTM-bodies, tyres, but normal engines.

And we called them Dummies.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Gary C
Surely a 'show car' is a 'proper' car without a few essential ingredients, like the engine and gearbox! They are obviously made up from parts that either weren't used or have come to the end of their 'life' on the race cars or test cars. Lotus 49 R12 is exactly that.

Not necessarily. McLaren show cars in the early carbon-fibre years used to have wooden mockup tubs, with 'Static Showcar' (SS) chassis designations.

pete

[Gary Davies]

There is a McLaren MP4/14 doing the rounds of the Aussie M-B dealerships right now. I saw it close up the other day. It was explained to me that that particular car started life in the test team, so it's essentially the real thing, but today lacks an engine and gearbox and the steering wheel is not readily removeable.

[Gary C]

That's interseting, Pete, I did not know that. What's happened to those cars now, are they still at McLaren I wonder??

[lanciaman]

There are show cars and there are show cars.
I've worked with cars that were just lightweight mockups using wood and fibreglass.

Others can be converted, and have been in a pinch, back to the "real thing" and put on the track.

NASCAR show cars are usually the latter, as they aren't especially high-tech anyway. They are often last year's car in this year's livery. Most sponsor deals require one or more showcars for promotional purposes.

IRL and CART cars may be mockups for ease of transport (pushing the real thing around in cramped quarters takes effort), with dummy engines in place, or they may be the real thing with expensive bits missing.

The "recent" F1 showcars usually are the real thing minus stealable pieces, dummy steering wheels, etc.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Gary C
That's interseting, Pete, I did not know that. What's happened to those cars now, are they still at McLaren I wonder??

I've no idea - at the time (late 80s) McLaren were still very iffy about anyone getting their hands on their composites and didn't want their tubs being looked at too closely (this is back in the days when they were still working with Hercules). Presumably they're not so fussy about an SS tub getting out - after all it's only something to hold the suspension in place and provide somewhere for punters to sit when they're being photographed with the car ;)

A lot of 'show cars' these days seem to be last year's car painted in this year's livery - mind you that describes McLaren's race cars these days

[theunions]

At the 1992 Houston AutoRama at the Astrodome, I saw a March 89C painted up as Bobby Rahal's current Miller Genuine Draft/Rahal-Hogan Lola T-9200. I checked the chassis number on the tag when I got home...and the number matched that of the 89C Kevin Cogan plunged into the end of the outer pit wall in the '89 Indy 500.

If there's anything authentic about that show car, that chassis tag would've been the only thing that survived.

[Darren Galpin]

Near Interlagos is Sid's helmet painting shop. In the window they used to have what looked like an Indy Lights car painted in the colours of Felipe Giaffone. Closer inspection showed that it was a Reynard, and was an old F3000 car painted to look right.........

[conjohn]

There was a Ferrari F310B (I think) that appeared in the paddock at several STCC meets last year. Being who I am, I looked at the chassis plate, and could see that this was not a genuine article, as it was in the low teens (should have been 172 - 180 if bona fide). Still, that's quite a number of show cars, if I remember the number correctly.

Another show car I have seen (twice, actually) is Tim Wilkerson's Levi, Ray & Shoup Pontiac Funny Car. The first time was in 2001, when Tim described it as an old chassis with a 2000 body shell. When I saw it this year, it was the same chassis but with a 2001 or 2002 body shell.

I had a good time talking with Tim about his racer, and he told me lot of interesting things about it - such as, that the force of the exhaust are so great that if one bank of the engine were to shut down, the car would irretrievable turn in the direction of the remaining engine bank.

Hopefully none of my bosses are members of TNF, as I spent most of my time at the Expo part of the conference chatting to Tim...

[Rainer Nyberg]

This "McLaren M23" is parked inside a Swedish museum. They are presenting it as a genuine object but they didn't convince me.

I didn't find any chassis plate inside the cockpit, so I assume this is also a "show car".

The DFV looked like a dummy, and the interior looked a bit cheap.

Maybe someone has further info on this subject?

[Frank S]

Can they both be M-23 and be this different?



No. 2 was running at Monterey a few weeks ago.


Frank S

[Frank S]

Chassis No. M23/12

[conjohn]

Originally posted by Frank S
Can they both be M-23 and be this different?

...

Chassis No. M23/12

Remember that the M23 had a long life, being a works car between 1973 and 1977. M23/12 is, according to my records, the next to last to be built, in 1977.

[Frank S]

This one is listed in the program as M23/14

[Rainer Nyberg]

M23 history from Allen Brown's site http://www.oldracing....asp?TypeID=M23

Chassis - First Race - Present Location
McLaren M23/1 - South African GP (03 March 1973) - New Zealand
McLaren M23/2 - International Trophy (08 April 1973) - United Kingdom
McLaren M23/3 - French GP (01 July 1973) - United States
McLaren M23/4 - German GP (05 August 1973) - Italy
McLaren M23/5 - Argentinian GP (13 January 1974) - France
McLaren M23/6 - Argentinian GP (13 January 1974) - Unknown
McLaren M23/7 - International Trophy (07 April 1974) - Written off
McLaren M23/8 - British GP (20 July 1974) - United States
McLaren M23/8-2 - Swiss GP (24 August 1975) - Switzerland
McLaren M23/9 - Argentinian GP (12 January 1975) - United Kingdom
McLaren M23/11 - South African GP (05 March 1977) - United States
McLaren M23/12 - US GP West (03 April 1977) - United States
McLaren M23/14 - Swedish GP (19 June 1977) - United States

[theunions]

Originally posted by bertocchi
Show car to Indy 500 winner? I believe that one of Penske's wins at the speedway came via a car that had been a 'showcar' when the month of May began. Al Unser (the father) I believe. Others will know fer sure.

Yes, the March 86C that Al Sr. won with in '87 began the month in a Reading, PA hotel lobby.

[Exar Kun]

Every year at the Oz GP they have the 'GP Expo' on the other side of the lake which has a lot of the show cars under one roof. I remember that as recently as last year, McLaren still had an MP4/13 in there. All the other cars have been the previous year's model usually.

[WDH74]

For the last couple of years Subaru has shown an Impreza rally car on their stand at the Chicago Auto Show. Looks pretty good too-rollcage visible thru the window, proper wheels and tires, right paint (which I realized was slightly ersatz when I later saw a pic of the real McRae), etc. Until you walked up to the car, which was raised on a ramp, and saw no brake discs (black plates behind the alloy wheels hid this), nothing behind the grille, and looking underneath revealed no engine, gearbox, or diffs, just driveshafts held out of the way with zip ties.
-William
"Showcars! Not Just For F1 Anymore!"

[dolomite]

There was a V-16 BRM on prominent display at the Autosport show a few years ago. Peering through the multitude of louvres in the bodywork revealed a large empty space where the engine should have been......

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by WDH74
For the last couple of years Subaru has shown an Impreza rally car on their stand at the Chicago Auto Show. Looks pretty good too-rollcage visible thru the window, proper wheels and tires, right paint (which I realized was slightly ersatz when I later saw a pic of the real McRae), etc. Until you walked up to the car, which was raised on a ramp, and saw no brake discs (black plates behind the alloy wheels hid this), nothing behind the grille, and looking underneath revealed no engine, gearbox, or diffs, just driveshafts held out of the way with zip ties.
-William
"Showcars! Not Just For F1 Anymore!"

There was a Pug 206WRC in the showroom on the Champs Elysees a couple of years back that was (as far as I could tell, not being entirely expert in rallying technology) pretty pukka - blimey you sit low and near the centre line in those things!

[WDH74]

I can't remember now, but I think Mitsubishi had a Lancer rally car on their stand, and it did the rounds of a couple of dealerships. At least Range Rover used to use real Camel Trophy cars on thier stands!
-Wm.

[Vitesse2]

I remember seeing a Renault BTCC show car a few years ago. It was painted up in the correct livery, but had different driver names in each side. All the windows (including the windscreen!) were heavily tinted, but if you got up close you could see it was just a bog standard Laguna inside!

[Falcadore]

Originally posted by roger_valentine
Are they genuine F1 cars merely lacking a few minor mechanical parts like engine and gearbox, or are they essentially 1:1 scale models? Are they constructed to the same exacting standards (of the same materials?) as race cars, or are they constructed to the rather different exacting standards of a car which must withstand the attentions of a million prying finger? Are they, in fact, constructed by the same companies which produce the race cars, or is there a replica manufacturer out there who, in a break from churning out Auto Unions, knocks up the occassional modern F1 car?

Generally, all of the above. There are no hard and fast rules about show cars because, wellll since they don't race, there are no rules.

Show cars and mock ups construction is generally at the whim of the marketting budget of the team they're promoting. A lot of mock-ups simply aren't race-able. Insufficent crash protection is one problem, as they never had to race all they have to do is support the weight of a driver (or mock-up driver) or grid girl model (who may or may not have been mocked-up) and some are missing elemantary parts - like points to mount the engeine to and a drivetrain for the engine to work on, and some are made of completely composite materials.

It would probably make a funny sketch for a skit comedy show to have a grid full of show cars......

I remember the Mr. Whippy Grand Prix for Ice Cream vans held at Sandown one year, complete with small car class for pizza delivery vehicles,

"We've been disqualified because instead of playing dum, duuuummm, da-daa-duh-duh-duh-dumm dahh -dahh on the speakers, the driver played Led Zeppelin Three. We're heartbroken. Every year we come here........"

[eldougo]

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg
This "McLaren M23" is parked inside a Swedish museum. They are presenting it as a genuine object but they didn't convince me.

I didn't find any chassis plate inside the cockpit, so I assume this is also a "show car".

The DFV looked like a dummy, and the interior looked a bit cheap.

Maybe someone has further info on this subject?

________________________________________

I met a young chap in1976 a kiwi named Brian______ who had a job driving McLaren M23 show
cars around Europe with an old van and trailer painted in Marlbrough colors .He told me there where at least 2 of them to look after. Plastic DFV mounted in a space frame and they just hung the F/Glass body onto it. .They where very light because he used to load it himself,
He worked for Phillip Morris .

[dolomite]

Originally posted by Falcadore

It would probably make a funny sketch for a skit comedy show to have a grid full of show cars......

Actually they have a grid full of show cars at the Autosport show every year!

[D-Type]

Slightly OT, does anybody know where to obtain a plastic or fibreglass replica DFV? A friend of a friend needs an affordable one for a restoration project.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
I remember seeing a Renault BTCC show car a few years ago. It was painted up in the correct livery, but had different driver names in each side. All the windows (including the windscreen!) were heavily tinted, but if you got up close you could see it was just a bog standard Laguna inside!

There's a lot of the cosmetic-only BTCC showcars out there - sometimes they seem to be there to make a political point. Remember the Alfa packing-pieces and splitters controversy in '94?

From: Pete Fenelon (pete@xxxxxx.xxxx.xx.xx)
Subject: Alfa Romeo 155 Silverstone
This is the only article in this thread
View: Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Date: 1994-06-30 10:20:35 PST


Well, for anyone who's been following the Alfa Romeo controversy in the BTCC
here's an amusing/intriguing aside...

I was walking to the pub last night (the Ackhorne on St. Martin's Lane in York;
highly recommended, by the way) when, halfway up Bishophill Senior, I saw a
street-legal 155 Silverstone "in the flesh" for the first time. It was
obviously the local Alfa dealer's demonstrator, as it was bedecked in
Alfa logos and the rear seat was covered in sales literature. Nice car.

Knowing that the aerodynamics of the car were causing regulation problems I
had a good look round. Sure enough, the rear wing was jacked up on the
"packing pieces" one usually finds in the boot -- pretty blatant, actually,
they're just black-painted metal spacers that lift the whole thing up by a
few inches. But that's not the problematic bit... as you're no doubt aware,
it's the front air-splitter that's causing all the controversy.

Sure enough, it was in the (BTCC-illegal) fully forward position. I
don't know whether the thing had been bolted there or was
free-standing, as I didn't fancy ferretting around under someone else's
very expensive Alfa looking for bolts, regardless of how technically
interesting they might have been. Similarly I didn't feel like trying
to push it to see if it moved...

However, it's interesting to note that the Alfa was sitting there rather
defiantly in the street with all these bits that are blatantly illegal in
racing trim on full public display -- is it perhaps Alfa's policy that the
cars should display the "illegal" wing and splitter?

Whatever, it's a lovely piece of kit!

[lanciaman]

For the 8 of us who saw Sylvester Stallone's attempt at a racing movie, 3 of the cars shown entering the pits, driving on city streets, etc., were built up using motorcycle engines. They were tube-frame machines with appropriate bodies and paint. They have probably ended up as show cars...somewhere.

[eldougo]

Originally posted by lanciaman
For the 8 of us who saw Sylvester Stallone's attempt at a racing movie, 3 of the cars shown entering the pits, driving on city streets, etc., were built up using motorcycle engines. They were tube-frame machines with appropriate bodies and paint. They have probably ended up as show cars...somewhere.

That movie put car racing movies back 20 years what a load of s---!

[Lotus23]

I'm embarrassed to admit that I put down hard-earned money to see "Driven".

I expected little and got considerably less than that.

[eldougo]

Originally posted by Lotus23
I'm embarrassed to admit that I put down hard-earned money to see "Driven".

I expected little and got considerably less than that.

: We all made that mistake???????/

[WDH74]

"I'm embarrassed to admit that I put down hard-earned money to see "Driven".

I expected little and got considerably less than that. "

I sneaked in and feel I should be reimbursed, at least for the junior mints!
-Wm.

[LB]

Originally posted by eldougo



That movie put car racing movies back 20 years what a load of s---!

When it should really go back 40 (well 35).

I found Drivel incredably funny in the you just cannot be serious vain, but I'm just like that. Its still better than Stroker Ace.

Days of Thunder is still a solid third in best racing movies list. Which doesn't say a lot...

umm on Show cars I saw the odd engine in the Autosport show grid last year was it just an illusion?

[dolomite]

Originally posted by LB

umm on Show cars I saw the odd engine in the Autosport show grid last year was it just an illusion?

Yes they may have had engines in them, but almost all of them were old cars masquerading as 2002 models.



The best one was the Williams which was actually a 1998 car!

[Option1]

Originally posted by Frank S
Can they both be M-23 and be this different?



No. 2 was running at Monterey a few weeks ago.


Frank S

Given this is also an M23 Frank, then I think the answer is yes.

Ignore the image's file name, I originally mistook it for another Yardley branded car.

Neil

[Arjan de Roos]

As a little boy I had the opportunity to sit in a McLaren M28. I still cherish that moment. At the time I heard that at least the engine was a wooden mock up. Chassis I dont know. Bodywork looked convincing.

[Falcadore]

Originally posted by lanciaman
For the 8 of us who saw Sylvester Stallone's attempt at a racing movie, 3 of the cars shown entering the pits, driving on city streets, etc., were built up using motorcycle engines. They were tube-frame machines with appropriate bodies and paint. They have probably ended up as show cars...somewhere.

Two of them may have been re-used for the Charlies Angels film. Also with a pretty lame street sequence.

Driven though is great entertainment - as a comedy - you just have to watch it in the right frame of mind