11 replies to this topic

[Hans_Sweden]

[B]60's Mystery Monocoque RaceCar[B]

Somebody must have ideas. The pictures are available on hyperlink, clik, hang on for some seconds and they will be displayed on your screen by http://hem.passagen....ue/index_3.html

Have you seen it before? It must have been running a lot according to all oil and mud around engine. The car is purchased as a burned-out wreck from a "Jaguar dump" in Sarasota, Florida in late 80's. There was no legible readable identification on the vehicle, nor did the seller know its history, except that it dated from the 1960s, and that it came to the wrecking yard from an insurance company in late 70's.

Complicating the puzzle is the glass fiber nosepiece, the only large piece of bodywork that came with the car. I believes it's an actual front end off a Ferrari 312P, the enduro racer of the early 1970s, altered to fit this chassis. Since the original tail section was missing I have fabricated a new one to match the style of the nose.

Visible in the photos are the curved glass fiber rocker panels that originally covered the chassis sides. They were painted in red and white horizontal stripes "just like a GT40."

The chassis, it is a full-length monocoque carrying the engine between rearward extensions. The primary tub material is aluminum, with steel subframes front and rear. The monocoque is held together with glue and more than 4000 rivets. Fuel is carried in either side for a total capacity of 26 gallons. Wheelbase is 97.5 inches. Suspension is all-independent, using Carrera springs and Koni shocks. The brakes are Delco Moraine, with an Airhart master cylinder. Wheels are 15-inch Keystones, with 8-inch rims front, 10-inch rear.

There was a Holley-carbureted 350 Chevy in the car when I got it, but I could sees signs of different original mounts for some other powerplant. The transaxle is a 5-speed ZF. Curiously, because this is unusual in such racers, the driver sits was on the left side. Today on right side.

Many of these details suggest a machine built in the USA or Canada. Most likely it was built as a racer, rather than a streetcar, because of the high-grade equipment -- fuel cells, braided hoses, adjustable springs and shocks, brake bias adjuster. And evidently it was built by someone knowledgeable about the state of the art in the latter half of the 1960s.

What about that 1972-style body? Is it original to the car? I don't know, but if so, it means construction lasted several years. The project must have been launched by an individual or a small, underfunded group, and been obsolete before it was done.

On the other hand, if the original brand of engine was changed, the same could well be true of the bodywork. And this car did experience enough adventure to result in a fire.

"If you have any information of the car or perhaps a picture of LeGrand's Mk 14 or Mk 16, please email me on [hans.hallberg@swipnet.se]. The pictures of Le Grand's Mk 14 or Mk 16 just to verify if LeGrand-cars have something to do with this monocoque."


Thanks / Hans, Malmoe, Sweden

[Peter Perfect]

I must admit that I haven't got a clue. The Nostalgia Forum night be a better place to ask as their combined knowledge of the history of motor racing is amazing.

[desmo]

I'll second the suggestion to post a copy of this to the Nostalgia Forum. If they can't identify it, likely no one can. The apparent turn signals in the original nose suggest to me it was a street car at least at one time.

[Hans_Sweden]

Thanks Desmo

The clue abot "The apparent turn signals in the original nose suggest to me it was a street car at least at one time" I will remember. That ideas give some more dimensions to such in.

Again tank you / Hans

[Hans_Sweden]

Thanks Seth

Received from Seth Peribsen, not a member Atlas F1 but he wrote me the mail below. I do not think it is a Hamill SR3. But do the audience have any clue about Hamill-Oldsmobil. Did anybody know if it is possible to send the link with pictures to Hamill and if so, where to send.

Again, thanks to Seth for helping.


“Hello Hans,

I saw your post on the Atlas F1 technolofy forum, and thought that I might be able to shed a teensy bit of light on the situation. I am responding via email, as per your request, as I am not a subscriber to Atlas F1.

Your mystery monocoque is extremely unlikely to be a LeGrand Mk14 or Mk16. The Mk 14 was a monoposto formula car, and the Mk 16 was a widened version intended for SCCA B sports racing or 2 liter CanAm. It was designed for the Lotus twin cam engines, so it would be far too small to take a Chevy 350 V-8.
Ed Hamill built a sports-racing car for his own use and raced it in the early 1966 USRRC races. He was trying to sell copies, but apparently was unsuccessful. I am unfamiliar with its construction, but it used an Olsmobile engine (you mentioned mounting points for another engine besides the Chevrolet), had the driver's seat on the left side, and is of about the right vintage. Since he was trying to sell the car to others, it must have been able to take other big V-8s. And, since he was unsuccessful in that endeavor, it might be the only one, explaining why no one can identify your example.
I hope that I have been of some help. Feel free to post this if you think that it will scare up more results.”

Best Wishes,
Till Later,
Seth Peribsen
Reciverd

[desmo]

http://www.clarben.c...etro66lag69.htm

Here's a photo of Ed Hamill and his SR3-Chevy at Laguna Seca in '66. I couldn't find a photo of the Olds engined car on the web. Perhaps some construction details in this photo might still be useful. It's LHD anyway.

I just missed seeing this car by a year, as the '67 Laguna Can-Am was the first auto race I ever went to!

[Engineguy]

The chassis construction, ZF tranaxle and the suspension and brakes look typical of the various Marauder replica cars (Lola T70, Chevron B16, McLaren M6 GT, Vette GTP, Ferrari 512M, etc.)... I had a brochure covering their products two or three decades ago... and I think they are still in business. Cannot find a website, but here is what a quick search turned up:

Marauder
4578 U.S. Route 136
Unit W
Potomac IL 61865

marauderGT@localline2.com


"Since the 1960s Marauder has earned the very highest reputation for its chassis and drivetrain engineering, for its expertise in ground-up rebuilding of original CanAm racing machines, and for its high-quality re-creation of these track stars in component and turnkey form.

Shown here for you is only a portion of Marauder's extensive lineup. Other Marauder replicas include the 512M in several configurations, the Marauder GTO, available in your choice of fiberglass or aluminum, the fully-authorized, dead-on resurrection of the famed Nissan GTP (Grand Touring Prototype) ZX Turbo IMSA racer. Marauder also stocks one of the USA's largest inventories of ZF transaxles and other hard-to-find high-performance components."

[Hans_Sweden]

Receiver another mail from Seth Peribsen he wrote below about Ed Hamill. To have more information I was out on the “world wide web” and found an SR3 with Chevrolet for sale. I don’t know if there was more than a single car built but on website I could find a Hamill SR3 for sale.

About Marauder I have been asking them 10 yers ago but they couldn’t identify the car at that time. I have taken the opportunity to send them some more pictures today. This after notes and ideas from “Enginegay”


New clue from Seth

I just tried to find out more about Ed Hamill, but couldn't find anything right off. There is another Ed Hamill with his own website, so
there could be some confusion with searches.

As I understand it, he was based in California when he was racing and building cars.

I just revisited the Atlas forum, and that picture would have been taken in the fall of 1966. He was racing what was probably the same car with an Oldsmobile engine at the start of the USRRC (United States Road Racing Championship). He did really well at the first few races, then had a string of DNFs. I rather think that he must have swapped the Olds for a Chevy for the fall CanAm, the first year that the fall pro series became officially the "CanAm," if he was driving a Hamill-Chevy at Laguna Seca. That is pretty close in time to the USRRC for a new car to have been built for the same driver. I hadn't remembered his car being in the CanAm series; he might have just entered the West Coast races, near his home base, and not run the whole series. He probably found the Oldsmobile a bit low on power for the very competitive first year of the CanAm, or maybe that was the source of his DNFs, so he went for the bigger engine.

But if he swapped in a Chevrolet engine, that would seem to render it a more likely contender for your mystery monocoque.

I know he was trying to sell his car to other racers because a friend of mine sent him a fan letter asking for more information about the machine after the Stardust Raceway USRRC, when it appeared out of seeming nowhere to run as a contender. He got a letter back saying the model was for sale, and giving specifics. My friend got scared off by that, as he just was curious about the new mystery racer, so he never wrote back.

So it seems as if your monocoque may have always had an aura of mystery attached to it, if these are the same car.

If you find out if they are the same car, I would be pleased to receive that tid-bit of information.

Thanks.
Best Wishes,
Seth Peribsen

[Ray Bell]

Maybe Seth should be advised that he doesn't have to be a subscriber to participate in discussions on these fora?

It seems as though he would be a very welcome contributor...

[Hans_Sweden]

Thanks to Atlas F1 I am now (I hope) going to solve a 12-year-old history concerning anown monocoque. After digging, mailing and watching on every company and single person that have been producing monocoque-cars I have now a person mailing me that he have been involved in my car as a project. If this clue is the right wan, it will be a bit funnier to go further finishing the project. Lots of people have been involved over the years to identifying but with no result.

I will come back to this forum when I’m 100% sure.

Thanks for helping

[Fortymark]

Not the same car but some simularities:

http://www.qv500.com...vendorse021.htm

[edward_skakie]

A short note to enthusiasts: I was on the 'phone with Ed Hamill this afternoon, and, while discussing the old days, did a search for the name Roy Kumnick, to whom Ed had sold an SR3. That search led to this website.
The front suspension of the Hans_Sweden car is fairly dissimilar to that of the SR3, in that the front uprights were custom built to Ed's design.
Ed himself is not on the 'net, but I'm pretty sure he will, in the not too distant future, pen a history of Can-Am/Group 7/etc, from his perspective, as, in our conversation, we discussed the fact that there exists a fair amount of erroneous information. He was a continuing competitor in Can-Am, as much as he was able: a perusal of the internet sites will reveal such. Ed did race out of Chicago, and has never had a website. If anyone has any film available, or knows where to obtain same, he would like to see some of the old races, as he only ever saw them from the driver's seat.
Anyone with questions needing immediate (or almost so) answers to Hamill queries may contact me direct at edward_skakie@bigfoot.com; I will be quite pleased to assist/pass questions on to Ed.
Great site (but aren't they all, if they talk about Can-Am?), but this is very nice.