66 replies to this topic

[Kvadrat]

The X-Pics

I've been searching for motor racing information during last three years and since then found tens of thousands various racing pictures from 1894 to now. Some pictures need to be identified. Would you help me with this, please?



They say it's Silverstone. But which race? Couldn't found such an Alfetta at all 1950-1951 Silverstone races. May be it's historic race? Photographer on the background looks like quite modern one.



This was almost definitely 1950 International Trophy. Can you confirm it?



The source said that's 1950 British Grand Prix but building on the background looks like Monza pits. Compare to this:





This must be Wimille at Bois de Boulogne in 1946. I never saw that race's pictures.

Also The British Pathe has video described as something like "Bois de Boulogne car race. The first race after Worls War II". Here is this clip. But one of the cars looks like that Alfa Romeo 308 in the picture above.



Found this picture at German site saying that's Etancelin at 1950 Italian Grand Prix. But is the track really Monza? I think isn't.



LAT collection picture. Gerard entered both British Grand prix and BRDC International Trophy in 1950 with the same number 12. That's why LAT doesn't know which race is this. But may be TNF experts do?

Everithing I can provide is taken from Motor Racing Retro picture of Gerard at 1950 British GP:

[Breadmaster]

I believe it is now traditional to wish you good luck with your quiz.......

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Breadmaster
I believe it is now traditional to wish you good luck with your quiz.......

Looking at Kvadrat's posting history, he seems to be a genuine but irregular contributor here.

He's made interesting contributions to a number of threads, particularly about racing behind the Iron Curtain - unlike Samuelson and friends.

[Holger Merten]

Originally posted by petefenelon


there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas

there may is room...

[Breadmaster]

Originally posted by petefenelon


Looking at Kvadrat's posting history, he seems to be a genuine but irregular contributor here.

He's made interesting contributions to a number of threads, particularly about racing behind the Iron Curtain - unlike Samuelson and friends.

A small but significant ;) may have been missing.....

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by petefenelon


Looking at Kvadrat's posting history, he seems to be a genuine but irregular contributor here.

He's made interesting contributions to a number of threads, particularly about racing behind the Iron Curtain - unlike Samuelson and friends.

OK, who was Samuelson? I get the context - the frequent use of this board by folks wanting answers to Russian motor racing quizzes - but my interest is piqued by the many references to Samuelson and search produces no real answers.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Ruairidh


OK, who was Samuelson? I get the context - the frequent use of this board by folks wanting answers to Russian motor racing quizzes - but my interest is piqued by the many references to Samuelson and search produces no real answers.

Samuelson was a Russian user who turned up here round about Christmas posting requests for information that some of our informative Russian colleagues determined were attempts to get TNF to answer quizzes in a Russian F1 mag for him. (He also had a web site that placed more spyware cookies per page on an unsuspecting PC than any other I've seen...)

It seems that Colonel Capps has expunged his contributions as they're no longer visible.

Since Samuelson, there have been several other similar posters whose grasp of English is decidedly Slavic turning up on TNF only to seek identification of 'mystery photos' - there is of course some uncertainty as to whether they're all the same person - and of course Wolbo who only appears on TNF to ask very simple multiple choice quiz questions despite a fairly healthy posting record elsewhere on Atlas.

It transpires that there is a regular monthly quiz (dealine about the 15th, so the postings tend to appear in the first half of the month!) with a first prize presumably of two cabbages and a Lada fanbelt and a second prize of a visit from the Russian Mafia....

[Bladrian]

Originally posted by petefenelon


Samuelson was a Russian user who turned up here round about Christmas posting requests for information that some of our informative Russian colleagues determined were attempts to get TNF to answer quizzes in a Russian F1 mag for him. (He also had a web site that placed more spyware cookies per page on an unsuspecting PC than any other I've seen...)

It seems that Colonel Capps has expunged his contributions as they're no longer visible.

Since Samuelson, there have been several other similar posters whose grasp of English is decidedly Slavic turning up on TNF only to seek identification of 'mystery photos' - there is of course some uncertainty as to whether they're all the same person - and of course Wolbo who only appears on TNF to ask very simple multiple choice quiz questions despite a fairly healthy posting record elsewhere on Atlas.

It transpires that there is a regular monthly quiz (dealine about the 15th, so the postings tend to appear in the first half of the month!) with a first prize presumably of two cabbages and a Lada fanbelt and a second prize of a visit from the Russian Mafia....

2nd prize presumably being a complete Lada ....

[kos]

It transpires that there is a regular monthly quiz (dealine about the 15th, so the postings tend to appear in the first half of the month!) with a first prize presumably of two cabbages and a Lada fanbelt and a second prize of a visit from the Russian Mafia....

Actually, the first prize is a free tour to (presumably Hungarian) Grand Prix next year

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by kos



Actually, the first prize is a free tour to (presumably Hungarian) Grand Prix next year

Oh dear - I'd sooner take the cabbages and the Lada fanbelt.;)

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by petefenelon


with a first prize presumably of two cabbages and a Lada fanbelt and a second prize of a visit from the Russian Mafia....

and thanks for the answer, I appreciate it.

[Holger Merten]

Wow there comes such a lot of energy into this thread. But if Brain runs on fun, then a Lada would be a good prize...

___________
BTW: Only one post away to get the status of a gold member. I hope I brought some news to TNF.

[kos]

Originally posted by petefenelon


Oh dear - I'd sooner take the cabbages and the Lada fanbelt.;)

I'm very sorry to disappoint you, but latest Ladas are equipped with electric motor dirven fans So, no fanbelt for you

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by kos


I'm very sorry to disappoint you, but latest Ladas are equipped with electric motor dirven fans So, no fanbelt for you

Who said it was a new one?!

[Pavel Lifintsev]

I knew one day it should be happened. One rotten apple ponged enough to injure its neighbours, so now many of you can not see any difference between ''russian'' and ''unfair player''. God knows - me and my friends tried to do our best to prevent that, yet it seems that because of samuelson & Co posters from Russia will be soon outlaw. I understand you are tired of all these quizes, and I can't condemn you for irritation and irony, but... Just remember that with the bathwater you can also throw the baby.

Originally posted by petefenelon
It transpires that there is a regular monthly quiz (dealine about the 15th, so the postings tend to appear in the first half of the month!) with a first prize presumably of two cabbages and a Lada fanbelt and a second prize of a visit from the Russian Mafia....

Sounds funny... for those, who haven't been in Russia for many years. See you biting dust from under my new Lada...

Originally posted by kos
Actually, the first prize is a free tour to (presumably Hungarian) Grand Prix next year

More exactly, the winner can choose where to go next year (e.g. 2003 it was Monza).

[Kvadrat]

Oh, I'm very very disappointed with the response above. I was among those who protested questions from Samuelson, Co@l and another unfair Russian speaking quiz player's whose name I don't remember. New unfair player is vvpupkin but I didn't protest his questions yet. I stopped playing this quiz this year's spring because of various reasons. My aim isn't prizes but knowing motor sport history. But I always supported my fellow REAL historians who still play.

As I promised in thread TNF is real motor racing encyclopaedia I finally collected almost all TNF threads in my PC. Every day I search through this great stuff and now I'm ready to be not only TNF reader but active member. Now I'm ready to ask only those questions which weren't discussed here before. Now I'm ready to give some answers for others but still not many because still don't have as much information as you do. I was preparing for joining you during almost a year and yesterday was special day for me because I started my real activity. I was looking forward for this morning.

Now I realized I'm not trusted person because recently some bad guys speaking the same language as I do tried to use you for their personal unfair purposes.

But I want to win your respect! Here is what I'm to do now to prove I'm not as unfair as you imagine. You think questions above were from Russian quiz. I know two those competitions. The first and biggest is Russian "Formula" magazine. Tomorrow I'll show you all the last quiz' questions with deadline. You'll se my pictures are not related to it.

The second quiz is minor and organized by a Russian historian. Here is the link to current questions: http://historyf1.nar...competition.htm. This historian probably is not 1940-s and 1950-s expert so his question are all about recent decades. My pictures are not related to this quiz.

Finally I will upload all inidentified pictures I have. But first I'd like to ask you how much pictures you'd like to see here at one post? 10? 100? 1000? I have more than 1000 pictures to identify. No one quiz contains so much pictures. So they are not related to any quiz.

What I also can do to became TNF historian?

[Ray Bell]

As far as I'm concerned, you need do nothing more... what does the Colonel think?

But can I suggest that you upload the pictures and have links to groups of them rather than posting them to the threads? Then you can progressively caption them as you get responses and those coming along to look afterwards can either add or see that there's nothing they can add to the information you have.

For many, ten pictures is plenty to have in a single thread. Depending on what size they are, of course.

In the meantime, let us see your first pictures...

[Magee]

ru. -- I agree with you that condemning all Russian inquiries because of a few bad apples is unfair.
I suppose that the best tact would be not to provide answers to obvious quiz questions,(be polite but firm) and more importantly not to poke fun at Russian cars, Hungarian GP, prizes etc. Some international behaviour protocols are required to maintain the status of TNF. Fun is fun but not at the expense of our motor sport enthusiast friends in Russia and throughout the world. My sermon is over.

[Leif Snellman]

Originally posted by Kvadrat


Found this picture at German site saying that's Etancelin at 1950 Italian Grand Prix. But is the track really Monza? I think isn't.

The picture is probably taken from Anthony Pritchard's "Historic Motor Racing", page 68
Could it be Silverstone 1949?

[Gary C]

these pix are WAY too small for me!!!

[Breadmaster]

Reply to Kvadrat

I think a we all would appreciate if yourself or another likeminded individual could notify us of these quizzes (and links to them) so we can lie in wait prepared.....thanks

also my apologies if my silly remark has started something nasty - i like silly that's all!

[Alexey Rogachev]

Dear TNF experts, your opinions about Kvadrat's new thread are totally wrong! He isn't a participant of 'F1 Experts' quiz, even though he is the most respected and well-known F1 history expert on Russian motorsport forum! He had published some of the 'X-pics' there before he started this thread here on TNF, but Russian experts couldn't identify these pictures. So you'd better apologise to Kvadrat and try to help him...

[Breadmaster]

Originally posted by Alexey Rogachev
Dear TNF experts, your opinions about Kvadrat's new thread are totally wrong! He isn't a participant of 'F1 Experts' quiz, even though he is the most respected and well-known F1 history expert on Russian motorsport forum! He had published some of the 'X-pics' there before he started this thread here on TNF, but Russian experts couldn't identify these pictures. So you'd better apologise to Kvadrat and try to help him...

that's what we've spent the last day doing Alexey.......

[Alexey Rogachev]

All credits to you! Don't worry, I had noticed your reply before writing my own one!

[Breadmaster]

oops!

In the newly found spirit of international cooperation.....you wouldn't happen to have any old Auto Unions knocking about in your garage/shed/field would you?

[gdecarli]

Originally posted by Kvadrat


They say it's Silverstone. But which race? Couldn't found such an Alfetta at all 1950-1951 Silverstone races.

Alfetta was an other (unofficial) name of glorious Alfa Romeo 158 and 159. It means something like "little Alfa". I don't know why, but I think that this name came from 1937, when Alfa 158 was built, because it was only a voiturette, much smaller than Grand Prix cars.
Alfetta is a glorious name for Alfa Romeo cars, it was used last time for both sedan and coupé (Alfetta GTV) cars sold in 1970s.

Found this picture at German site saying that's Etancelin at 1950 Italian Grand Prix. But is the track really Monza? I think isn't.

I don't think so as well. I was not at Monza in 1950, but now there are much more trees everywhere...

Ciao,
Guido

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Kvadrat
Oh, I'm very very disappointed with the response above. I was among those who protested questions from Samuelson, Co@l and another unfair Russian speaking quiz player's whose name I don't remember. New unfair player is vvpupkin but I didn't protest his questions yet. I stopped playing this quiz this year's spring because of various reasons. My aim isn't prizes but knowing motor sport history. But I always supported my fellow REAL historians who still play.

As I promised in thread TNF is real motor racing encyclopaedia I finally collected almost all TNF threads in my PC. Every day I search through this great stuff and now I'm ready to be not only TNF reader but active member. Now I'm ready to ask only those questions which weren't discussed here before. Now I'm ready to give some answers for others but still not many because still don't have as much information as you do. I was preparing for joining you during almost a year and yesterday was special day for me because I started my real activity. I was looking forward for this morning.

Now I realized I'm not trusted person because recently some bad guys speaking the same language as I do tried to use you for their personal unfair purposes.

But I want to win your respect! Here is what I'm to do now to prove I'm not as unfair as you imagine. You think questions above were from Russian quiz. I know two those competitions. The first and biggest is Russian "Formula" magazine. Tomorrow I'll show you all the last quiz' questions with deadline. You'll se my pictures are not related to it.

The second quiz is minor and organized by a Russian historian. Here is the link to current questions: http://historyf1.nar...competition.htm. This historian probably is not 1940-s and 1950-s expert so his question are all about recent decades. My pictures are not related to this quiz.

Finally I will upload all inidentified pictures I have. But first I'd like to ask you how much pictures you'd like to see here at one post? 10? 100? 1000? I have more than 1000 pictures to identify. No one quiz contains so much pictures. So they are not related to any quiz.

What I also can do to became TNF historian?

As far as I'm concerned, you, Alexey and .ru are all valued posters here - you make regular contributions to the threads and add an interesting perspective on racing in other parts of the world. Please continue to do so!

[Alexey Rogachev]

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by petefenelon


As far as I'm concerned, you, Alexey and .ru are all valued posters here - you make regular contributions to the threads and add an interesting perspective on racing in other parts of the world. Please continue to do so!

Hear hear!

In fact, when I saw you'd started a new thread my first thought was "Ah, good, Kvadrat's back!" I don't have time today to look at these pictures, but I'll do what I can tomorrow

Originally posted by gdecarli

Alfetta was an other (unofficial) name of glorious Alfa Romeo 158 and 159. It means something like "little Alfa". I don't know why, but I think that this name came from 1937, when Alfa 158 was built, because it was only a voiturette, much smaller than Grand Prix cars.

Guido: I'm wondering now whether "Alfetta" might be a back-formation from English? In the 30s the British press were calling the cars "Alfettes", presumably a contraction of "Alfa Voiturettes", only using the "Alfetta" name after the war I think. Perhaps the Italians adopted the name and then "Italianised" it? It would be Vetturette Alfa Romeo in Italian wouldn't it?

[gdecarli]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
Guido: I'm wondering now whether "Alfetta" might be a back-formation from English? In the 30s the British press were calling the cars "Alfettes", presumably a contraction of "Alfa Voiturettes", only using the "Alfetta" name after the war I think. Perhaps the Italians adopted the name and then "Italianised" it? It would be Vetturette Alfa Romeo in Italian wouldn't it?

Maybe, but I don't think so.
I don't have any reference about it, it's only my opinion I don't know if true or not.
In late 1930s Italy (expecially after Ethiopian war, 1936) was quite isolated and it had no good relationship with Great Britain and U.S.A.
Foreign words and foreign culture were forbidden, so - even if possible - I don't think "Alfetta" name came from abroad.
Some other cars had unofficial name, I recall here only Fiat Balilla and Fiat Topolino, very famous but nobody remember their official names.
So I think that Alfetta means only "small Alfa".
I remember that somebody called Alfona (big Alfa) Alfa 6: it was the biggest Alfa sedan car introduced in 1979. This wasn't a very common unofficial name, but it could explain use of Italian language (!).

Ciao,
Guido

[GIGLEUX]

About Etancelin and the Talbot.

From position of the bazooka on the hood it is first Etancelin's Lago-Talbot #110008, he raced extensively from 1948 to end of 1950.

This car received five times the N.24:
-ACF 1948
-Albi 1948
-British GP 1949
-Pescara 1950
-Italian GP 1950

From the landscape I have a strong presomption for Silverstone and 1949 British GP!

[conjohn]

Originally posted by Kvadrat



This was almost definitely 1950 International Trophy. Can you confirm it?

I can't definitely confirm it, but Fangio carried no 2 for that event. However, he also carried no 2 at Bari in 1950, and at the Belgian and British Grands Prix, 1951.

The clothing doesn't seem to indicate Italy in July , more likely Britain in August, so it is probably not Bari.

That leaves the question at whether it is a 158 (1950) or a 159 (1951), and there I'm lost...

[Adam F]

Vladimir,

Wimille Alfa 308 photo is May 1946 Bois de Boulogne.

I agree that the Etancelin Talbot Lago is Silverstone 1949 British GP - the position of the numbers matches other photos of this car at that event.

[D-Type]

Originally posted by Kvadrat
The X-Pics



They say it's Silverstone. But which race? Couldn't found such an Alfetta at all 1950-1951 Silverstone races. May be it's historic race? Photographer on the background looks like quite modern one.

I have been through my (rather limited) library.
The car in the photo does not have a blanking plate over the top part of the radiator opening. Every picture I have shows such blanking plates. In the 1951 GP as all the cars ran with blanking pltes. Also it is not Farina in the 1951 race as he had a blanking plate then and a coloured nose.

If it is a period shot I speculate that it might have been practice for their first Silverstone appearance (the 1950 GP I think). When they found the cars were running too cool they fitted the blanking plates.

I think it more likely that you are in suggesting its a historic race as the two figures by the car also have a modern look. The photo also looks as though it has been artificially aged.

But I don't really know what I'm talking about so I'll hand this over to the experts.

[oldtimer]

Originally posted by conjohn


I can't definitely confirm it, but Fangio carried no 2 for that event. However, he also carried no 2 at Bari in 1950, and at the Belgian and British Grands Prix, 1951.

The clothing doesn't seem to indicate Italy in July , more likely Britain in August, so it is probably not Bari.

That leaves the question at whether it is a 158 (1950) or a 159 (1951), and there I'm lost...

The Jaguar 120 and Y-type MG in the background definitely suggest Silverstone.

Kravdrat, I'm one of those who will welcome pictures of 158/159 Alfas any time.

[Vitesse2]

Definitely the International Trophy. In "Formula One: unseen archives" there is a picture of Fangio and Farina on page 13, taken within a few minutes of yours Vladimir. Farina's foot is resting on the wheel of a car and he is holding the bag exactly as in the picture above. The location of the picture isn't given, but reference to the one on page 11 shows that Fangio is wearing the same shirt, overall and jacket, while Farina has now discarded his coat: this one is said to be "during a practice at Silverstone in August" 1950.

[m.tanney]

Originally posted by D-Type
I think it more likely that you are in suggesting its a historic race as the two figures by the car also have a modern look. The photo also looks as though it has been artificially aged.

  The clothing of the people around and behind the car has a 1970s look to it - check the white bell-bottoms. The driver appears to have a perspex face mask, like the kind Phil Hill used to wear. For one of Road & Track's anniversary issues (25th or 30th), they had him track test of an Alfetta. My guess is that that was when this photo was taken.

[Kvadrat]

Thank you all for the response.

Ray, do you mean it would be better to discuss no more than 10 pictures in every thread and always summarize discussions' results in the first post with these pictures for identification? Maybe it would be better to make special The X-Pics page like McRonalds' Retro Race?

As for pictures themselves the first one is still in doubt.

Second picture is definitely Fangio sitting in his car and Farina next to him poising during the 1950 BRDC International Trophy at Silverstone.

Next picture still wasn't discussed.



Background really looks like Monza for me but interesting thing is that there's number 9 behind Farina. Looks like usual car number table on the pits building but it's odd number while there were only even car numbers in continental races.

Adam, thank you for Wimille answer. Did you see mentioned video? I guess the race is always 1946 Bois de Boulogne.

Unfortunately I have little information on motor racing in 40-s. All statistics I have was taken from Quntin Claud's and Darren Galpin's sites. There are no numbers lists there. So thanks for #24 Talbot Lago races list. I have only this picture of Etancelin at 1949 British Grand Prix.



Number is unvisible.

Finally Gerard Silvertone picture. He entered other races between British GP and BRDC IT with different numbers so I think number 12 in both races would look slightly different. As I can see on LAT picture number is the same as on MRR one but there might be mistake from Franco Varani.

[Vitesse2]

Not sure if it's Monza, but I'd agree it's not Silverstone: the pits there were still temporary affairs in 1950, built out of scaffolding poles.

[Vitesse2]

Motor Sport, June 1950, has a picture of Gerard taken at almost the same spot, but from slightly further along the track, looking back. Points of reference include the oil drum in the background! The car looks identical and lighting conditions look very similar, with sharp shadows, as can also be seen in the MRR picture, even though that is very much darker.

I don't have a picture of Gerard in the International Trophy, but the weather that day went from rainy to overcast, via bright sun on a wet track. The pictures I have show that by the time the track was dry, it was overcast, with virtually no shadows. I'd say it's 99% certain it's taken at the British GP.

[WDH74]

Just guessing, but I think that may very well be Monza in the background of the Fangio/Farina pic. On the left there's a round sign in the background, which looks a lot like the round signs in the picture of the Monza pits. However, the one in the first pic looks like it says "end" on it, and I've no idea if there are any Italian words with "end" in them. I'm trying to think of other permanent tracks with similar pit buildings that would've been fully renovated by 1950, but can't think of any off the top of my head.
Also, the first pic, of the Alfa Romeo, is definitely not period. The guy leaning over the cockpit on the right, wearing blue jeans, probably confirms it, as does the guy behind him wearing a backwards baseball cap. Where it was shot, who is in the car, year, etc. I've no idea. Some very nice photos displayed, though, and I'm glad of the chance to see them!
-William

[gdecarli]

Originally posted by WDH74
However, the one in the first pic looks like it says "end" on it, and I've no idea if there are any Italian words with "end" in them.

Are you speaking about this pic, aren't you?
Well, end is not and Italian word, and there are no words finishing with -end as well. All italian words (but prepositions and articles) finishes with vocals (only A, E, I, O; U is very rare), both in singular and plural.
I'm trying to think to a acronym or abbreviation, but I can't find anything.
Could it be an English sign at Monza?

Ciao,
Guido

[WDH74]

Yep, gdecarli, that's the pic. At first I thought it was a BP sign, but it's the wrong shape (most BP signs were shield-shaped, right?). Could very well be an advertisement, but for what I don't know. Also I may be mis-reading it in the first place-it seems rather foggy in the background! What do the little round signs in the pic of the Monza pics say? I couldn't decipher them.
-William

[Kvadrat]

I checked early 50s Monza pictures and found that writings on round plates above pits were teams and suppliers names. Look at this picture of Ascari saluting fans before the 1950 Italian GP:



Pirelli!

Another one seems to be "Scuderia Ferrari":



9 must be pits number, not car's one.

So which name may be "end"-looking?

[Geza Sury]

Originally posted by Kvadrat
Now I'm ready to ask only those questions which weren't discussed here before.

I think every new and old member should do this!

Originally posted by Magee
I suppose that the best tact would be not to provide answers to obvious quiz questions,(be polite but firm) and more importantly not to poke fun at Russian cars, Hungarian GP, prizes etc. Some international behaviour protocols are required to maintain the status of TNF. Fun is fun but not at the expense of our motor sport enthusiast friends in Russia and throughout the world. My sermon is over.

Couldn't agree more

[gdecarli]

Originally posted by Kvadrat
I checked early 50s Monza pictures and found that writings on round plates above pits were teams and suppliers names.
(...)
So which name may be "end"-looking?

Thanks to this help, I have just given a look to entry list on Quentin Cloud's website: there is only one name that could fit on that photo: ERA.

Three letters on the picture seems to me more similar to 'END' rather than 'ERA', but, sorry, we have no drivers or cars ending with -END, so... why not ERA? It could be, photo is not so clear...

Ciao,
Guido

[Kvadrat]

Quintin's statistics gives only entered cars and drivers. ERA was entered for the race by privateer driver Harrison, so his name should be on the plate.

Does someone have detailed pictures of 1950 Monza pits?

[WDH74]

This may take us away from 1950, or potentially Monza, but the little round sign, after I looked at it long and hard in Photoshop, blew it up, sharpened it, contrasted it, and squinted, could almost say the bleeding obvious-BRM. ERA still seems most likely ('specially in light of the fact that an ERA was entered at Monza in '50), but it's a possibility.
-William

[Pavel Lifintsev]

Recently I searched through my archives and... Look at what I have found:



The same persons, the same clothing and the Monza pits doubtless, so this puzzle is solved! But I have another one for you: a man in the glasses behind Fagioli's shoulder. His face seems to be known to me so I guess he is one of the Alfa Romeo team mechanics, but I can't remember his name. Any ideas?

[Kvadrat]

Thanks .ru! Where have you been when we discussed this picture at Formula forum?

I guess where you could see this face. Looks like Lev Shugurov, isn't he?