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#1 Felix Muelas

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 10:15

Prompted by some comments made ten days ago by Vitesse2 whilst ceremoniously ingesting one of those (for me) exotic foods (thus meaning in my definition that one shouldn' t really have as average more than once a month) i.e a Steak and Kidney Pie :lol: about some very curious signatures to be found in old Correspondence / Letters from Readers / Letters to the Editor etc kind of stuff, I am starting this thread to see whether I might attract some of you to post some of those, that we would all find curious or funny or amazing or whatever (is the right word "anthological"?) because of either the signature either the contents or even both!

Let me see, I'll start with this one...where the curiosity lies in the date, and how things seem to change SO LITTLE over the years...

I wonder how many will endorse my criticism - it is really rather a suggestion - that is is quite unncessary, and indeed objectionable, to flood the public ear with "music" blared out at enormous volume at every vacant moment during motor race meetings? To take the case of Goodwood, the moment a race and the commentator's remarks about it are over, at once the blare starts and continues until movement begins in connection with the next race. The din makes conversations in the stands and enclosures difficult and one is not allowed a free minute in which to discuss quietly what has just happened...

Signed Robert Calburn, Horsham, Sussex
Published in CORREPONDENCE, Autocar, October 7 1949

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#2 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 10:56

I'd have reckoned that it wouldn't be as bad then as now...

But I agree with the sentiment entirely.

#3 RTH

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 11:12

Originally posted by Ray Bell


But I agree with the sentiment entirely.


So do I 100% - seems circuit owners and race organisers were just as inept at seeking customers opinion then as they still are now its a disgrace that things never change

#4 Vitesse2

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 13:54

This is the letter I quoted to Felix (and others) over dinner. I owe Reinhard Windeler some gratitude for allowing me to find it ....

Autosport, Apr 30th 1987

What a brilliant report of the Silverstone Formula 3000 race you published! An excellent write-up, superb pictures and full results, even including the practice times of non-starters. Not only that but chassis numbers as well! You'll have us out of a job at this rate!

I sincerely hope that this will set the pattern for the rest of the season

Could I make a small plea for complete results of Formula 3 and CART races as well? That would make my cup of happiness complete.

Paul Sheldon, Formula 1 Register, Shipley, W Yorks


O tempora! O mores!

#5 RTH

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 14:23

Clearly much has changed at Teddington in the last 16 years .

#6 petefenelon

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 15:00

Originally posted by RTH
Clearly much has changed at Teddington in the last 16 years .


I do love the way Autosport used to religiously list the make, engine manufacturer and tyre manufacturer of cars in one-make series for several years.... ;P

#7 2F-001

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 15:09

Forgive me if I haven't correctly grasped the spirit of this thread... but here goes anyway...

Towards the end of the UK Formula 3 season in 1970, when the simmering issue driving standards finally boiled over (James Hunt, Dave Morgan, Crystal Palace and all the rest) there was a sequence of letters in the press from drivers' Mums sticking up for their little darlings and chiding the antics of the playground bullies. I'll see if I can find any of them if your interested...

#8 RTH

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 16:33

Originally posted by petefenelon


I do love the way Autosport used to religiously list the make, engine manufacturer and tyre manufacturer of cars in one-make series for several years.... ;P


Well they are all on the ball down there nowadays ! - they must use shed loads of red printing ink each week.......... but a bit sparing with any meaningful text - and certainly no criticism of anyone.

Anyone remember 'Private Ear' I spoke to Nick Brittain and he said there was not a hope in hell of ever getting anything remotely like that in the magazine ever again.

I can only think there must be some dark force we don't know about pulling the strings these days - why else has it changed out of all recognition ?

#9 Cirrus

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 17:36

Towards the end of the UK Formula 3 season in 1970, when the simmering issue driving standards finally boiled over (James Hunt, Dave Morgan, Crystal Palace and all the rest) there was a sequence of letters in the press from drivers' Mums sticking up for their little darlings and chiding the antics of the playground bullies. I'll see if I can find any of them if your interested...



Oh yes please! Although I was only 14 at the time, I remember well the exchanges between the miffed F3 mums. I think it was Mike Beuttler's mother who laid into James Hunt. I don't think she used the phrase "Ghastly little oik" as such, but it was something very similar.

I suppose the correspondence page of Autosport in days of yore was the closest we had to forums such as this.

#10 petefenelon

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 18:04

Originally posted by Cirrus


Oh yes please! Although I was only 14 at the time, I remember well the exchanges between the miffed F3 mums. I think it was Mike Beuttler's mother who laid into James Hunt. I don't think she used the phrase "Ghastly little oik" as such, but it was something very similar.

I suppose the correspondence page of Autosport in days of yore was the closest we had to forums such as this.


Of course now about 90% of junior formulae are just Formula Pushy Dad - a phenomenon I felt reached its nadir with 'T-Cars' - 14-16 year olds in tubeframe saloons. They had all the charisma-free PR-friendly bull of the modern single seater driver, combined with a definite dose of 'my dad's richer/bigger than yours so nyaaaaah!".....

#11 Tim Murray

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 18:31

Originally posted by 2F-001
Towards the end of the UK Formula 3 season in 1970, when the simmering issue driving standards finally boiled over (James Hunt, Dave Morgan, Crystal Palace and all the rest) there was a sequence of letters in the press from drivers' Mums sticking up for their little darlings and chiding the antics of the playground bullies. I'll see if I can find any of them if your interested...

Yes please Tony - I can just about remember the gist of the letters, but it would be nice to re-read them properly.

#12 2F-001

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 20:11

Ok then, here goes:

I think there was a lot more elsewhere, but here are a few bits from Autosport (October 1970)...


Morgan's mum comments
As David Morgan's mother, I feel quite incensed at the implication of Justin Haler's report on the F3 incident at Crystal Palace.
It has been established that Morgan ad passed Beuttler before entering South Tower, and after presing round the outside had emerged completely ahead of Hunt. The shunt took place slightly nearer the outside than the inside of the track, and there was room to pass on either side. There was nothing untoward about Morgan's line and we can only assume that Hunt misjudged his speed and so hit him in the rear. The March took to the air.
While welcoming a tribunal to adjudicate the facts of the accident, I am amazed that Morgan alon should have been selected to face an inquisition about his driving. This season, until the accident, he has remained virtually incident free. His so-called bumping and boring tactics have not pushed any driver off. His March has fantastic brakes, and with skill he has used this advantage to be able confidently to seize every opportunity to outbrake, even when others might think twice about it. At what stage does pressing on, harrying and holding off turn from a virtue into a vice? With a below power-engine, the fact that he has continued so competively in the face of such formidable opposition is very much to his credit?
Mrs BH Morgan, Surrey.

the following week...

Mum's the word
As Mike Beuttler's mother, I feel quite incensed at some of the reports and comments on the F3 race at Crystal Palace recently. The reports stated that my son was "given" second place in the final due to the Hunt/Morgan incident. As everyone but Morgan's mum and Motoring News' reporter knows, this is simply not true.
On lap 18 at South Tower both Hunt and Mike Beuttler passed Morgan; on lap 19 my son slip-streamed passed Hunt and held second place to the end, leavinf Hunt and Morgan to continue their dangerous antics together.
I was quite horrified at the driving behaviour of some of the competitiors ai the F3 race, the boy Hunt being extremely beastly to my son who, as always, drove beautifully, although his father and I do rather wish he had chosen a more sedate occupation.
As for Mr. Morgan, mere words fail me. A piy they didn't fail his mum...
Mrs LBB Beuttler, Benalmadena, Spain.

and then...

More on F3 mums
As Dave Walker's mum, Carlos Pace's great aunt and Gerry Birrel's third cousin thrice removed, I would like to complain about the disgusting and season-long antics of Tony Trimmer. This matter was really brought to a head at Grands the other weekend when Trimmer had the cheek to lead from start to finish.
Also, his consistency is a disgrace to all F3 drivers. He has failed consistently to create accidents, and has actually been seen, I'm ashamed to say, to grin before a race.
Therefore may I put forward a plea to either Brendan McInerney or some other sponsor/entrant. For the sake of the sport, make sure Trimmer never drives in another F3 race. Send him to the depths of F2, wher teams apparently lend cars to rivals, a la BMW. Surely such a disgrace would befit his disgusting performance this year.
Name & Address withheld, Lancaster.

and so it goes on, with letters exploring the mums, tantrums and diaper jokes in some depth.

#13 Cirrus

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 20:16

Of course now about 90% of junior formulae are just Formula Pushy Dad



Quite - but formula pushy mum is so much more.........well...hilarious!

I began karting in 1971 at the age of 14, and the pushy parent ethos was very apparent even then. I took it in turns to race a shared kart with a school friend. My dad (or his) would drop us off at the circuit with the kart and tools and we would spend the day tweaking carb settings, changing sprockets, adjusting tyre pressures etc and having a great time. However, there was always at least one kid racing with a dad who would intimidate officials into getting his own way, seek out kids, like ourselves, without parental support at the circuit to bully, and generally bludgeon their way into the best grid positions for the final (we'd usually seized our engine by then!).

Just take a look at the tribunal reports in the MSA publications to see where this has led. Pushy parents have always been there - it's just that now they are more visible, because they have moved higher up the motorsport food chain.

#14 Cirrus

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 20:32

2F-001 - thanks, that was fantastic, The quaint language makes the whole episode even funnier thirty years on. What would you rather be? - a Beastly World Champion, or a thoroughly good sort with "fantastic brakes"?

#15 2F-001

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 20:38

I suppose most mothers think their little boys drive beautifully. Although, on second thoughts...

#16 ensign14

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 21:02

I do remember the surprise of a workmate when I congratulated him on getting a letter in F1 Racing. Turned out the letter was made up by a sub-editor, a mate of his...

#17 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 22:00

The sub-editor wrote it?

Well, who wrote this one?

From the quoted Autosport letters
As Dave Walker's mum, Carlos Pace's great aunt and Gerry Birrel's third cousin thrice removed.....


Was David Walker's mum in Lancaster? Was she old enough to be Carlos Pace's great aunt? At the same time as whe was Gerry Birrell's third cousin?

Best letter we ever had at Racing Car News was from a bloke in gaol!

#18 rmhorton

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 22:27

And how about this little gem from Autosport March 14 1969. There are so many angles to this letter about how times have changed in racing coverage, not to mention pity the poor historian, etc etc.

And then again, just looking at the classifieds can be fun. I bet that rogue Frank Williams fellow who was offering to actually guarantee the racing cars he sold never amounted to much……..


Grand Prix and Fleet Street

Every now and then motor racing enthusiast get extremely hot under the collar and accuse the national press of gross inaccuracy, amongst other cardinal sins, in their racing coverage. Consequently this might be a opportunity to demonstrate how mistakes can arise and what we are sometimes up against.

The other Saturday I was trying to put together, from agency reports a credible and accurate, if brief, report on the South African Grand Prix at Kyalami for the following day’s paper. The first agency report contained the following.

“ The 2.5 mile circuit was waterlogged by a thunderstorm as the 18 cars set off for the first race of the new season.”

Soon afterwards another agency provided this paragraph:

“The race was run in warm, cloudy weather. The rain which threatened, however, stayed away as the 18 sleek, low-slung roared off at the start.”

What do you do, with this stuff having to go to the press within minutes? It would seem that both reporters were at different races. I used the first report because that agency is usually more reliable. But, from subsequent coverage in the motoring magazines, it seems it wasn’t raining after all. Ah, well…..we do try you know.

Maxwell Boyd.
Motoring Correspondent, Sunday Times.

#19 eldougo

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 07:35

Originally posted by Cirrus


Pushy parents have always been there - it's just that now they are more visible, because they have moved higher up the motorsport food chain.

_____________________________________________________________________

Out here in Sydney OZ there is a case that has gone to court regarding a Pushy DAD who thought his beloved (spoilt ) SON should have won a local championship .The dad then tryed to kill one of the officials of the AKA . burn his business down etc etc.And the latest he is seeking DAMAGES of $750.000 because his SON was banded from the sport for 7 years and the father was give a 15 year ban as well.
All of this for a small Plastic MUG.--O derrrrrrrrrr. :rolleyes:

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#20 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 07:40

Man oh man... I've never heard of that...

And it strikes me that even Russell never went that far!

#21 eldougo

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 09:02

:wave:
It's true July 31st 2003 Daily Telegraph ------- :up: And i suppose your talking about the Blue oval driver that used to drive another type of TAXI. :cat:

#22 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 09:50

No eldougo, not him...

Think 'father of a taxi driver'.

#23 eldougo

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 10:00

[COLOR=red] Orrrr you mean BIG nose dad[/COLOR=red :lol:

#24 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 10:04

Getting warm...

I certainly didn't mean Ross, of course.

Save that Telegraph article for me the next time I come through, okay?

#25 eldougo

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 10:35

:wave:
You got me on that one i will try later . The ABC has got the Dam busters on at 8-30
tonight NOW. :wave:

#26 Reinhard Windeler

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 20:07

Originally posted by Vitesse2
I owe Reinhard Windeler some gratitude for allowing me to find it ....

Richard, you were destined not to read Paul Sheldon's letter but to look at the one right beside it...;)

#27 Felix Muelas

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 21:27

Originally posted by Reinhard Windeler

Richard, you were destined not to read Paul Sheldon's letter but to look at the one right beside it...;)

:lol: :lol: :confused:

#28 Vitesse2

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 21:35

Felix: the one next to it is Reinhard's, pointing out that Chris Nixon got 1939 wrong ....

Once you and the guys have put 8W's Goodwood report to bed, we must discuss that!

#29 Wolf

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 21:52

Originally posted by Ray Bell
The sub-editor wrote it?

Well, who wrote this one?

Was David Walker's mum in Lancaster? Was she old enough to be Carlos Pace's great aunt? At the same time as whe was Gerry Birrell's third cousin?


Ray, I think the question to ask is whether Tony Trimmer's mother lived in Lancaster...;) Just listen to this part:

For the sake of the sport, make sure Trimmer never drives in another F3 race. Send him to the depths of F2, wher teams apparently lend cars to rivals, a la BMW. Surely such a disgrace would befit his disgusting performance this year.



:lol:

#30 Roger Clark

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Posted 17 September 2003 - 23:20

A letter in Autosport, November 27, 1959:

"Oh dear, another budding World Champion! this time last year we had Phil Hill "discovered" as a future future champion, this year it's Dan Gurney. Why don't we wait until one of these American "wonder boys" learns to be a Grand Prix driver and wins a full-blooded GP rce before we get all lyrical and "dollar-worshipping".

"If Mr Christopher Nixon had been at Monza last September he would have seen an old and seasoned Grand Prix driver, namely Stirling Moss, making these two American "Supermen" look like the new boys they are. Their combined efforts had no hope of beating Moss, who had the situation in the palm of his hand from the second lap. Gurney is certainly an excellent driver, a "natural racer" and a most pleasant character, but if he is to be World Champion in his second season of Grand Prix racing then it is a reflection on the way the FIA has reduced Grand Prix racing to an occupation for the "man in the street" instead of an art at very high level"

Signed D S Jenkinson, Odiham, Hampshire.