83 replies to this topic

[jake]

Is it me, or does anybody else sense that Damon Hill is still bitter & envious of MS's accomplishments. Whenever one hears him talk or quoted, as he was today on Atlas F1 news, it just seems to me it's the same old Damon. Things like how Michael's 'Achilles heel' is the fact that he will buckle under pressure ... yadda yadda yadda.

Excuse me Damon, but, has MS not won 5 Championships - perhaps 6 after this year? How's that for buckling under pressure. Has he not equalled Fangio? Does he not have more wins than Senna? - most wins for Ferrari ? - I've lost count of the poles - etc. While the argument of who is the greatest will go one forever ... one can discuss MS's accomplishments in the same sentence as Senna or Fangio.

One thing is for sure Damon - your ONE WDC is nice, but, you will not hear your name anywhere alongside the greats. Seems you're the guy with the 'Achilles Heel'. Oh, and 1994 was a long time ago. GET OVER IT. YOU LOST!

I am probably over the top with this goof and I do not like to get personal ... nor was what he said all that caustic. It just seems like the same 'ole Damon.

[FredrikB]

Maybe he just doesn't like him?
Doesn't have to be more to it than that.

F.

[Tomecek]

Nothing more than two drivers fighting for championship and Damon Hill is fan of one of them. He is quoted since he is famous person. No problem with it.

[5319]

That's wired he was talking about ''Achilles Heal'. Schumacher has been under such an extreme pressure in Monza and he still won it. I am pretty sure he is under less pressure now.

Hill is a looser, as well as Irvine.

[Arrow]

No damon is cool.
Yes he does stick it into michael when he can but he does it with a smile in a playful way.
A friendly ribbing,nothing more.

If you want to see true bitterness look no further than Johney herbert and jacques villeneuve.
They have serious deep rooted issues with michael.

[CONOSUR]

Typical tripe from Damon (over the) Hill... Nothing more, nothing less... :

[Fortymark]

Originally posted by 5319
That's wired he was talking about ''Achilles Heal'. Schumacher has been under such an extreme pressure in Monza and he still won it. I am pretty sure he is under less pressure now.

Hill is a looser, as well as Irvine.

Thank god for launch control he must say....

[Enkei]

Originally posted by Arrow
No damon is cool.
Yes he does stick it into michael when he can but he does it with a smile in a playful way.
A friendly ribbing,nothing more.

How do you know that from reading the article. Seriously, I can understand if he's still annoyed by Michael, he stole one of his WDC's, that's not exactly something he will forget just like that.

[Witt]

Damon Hill Bitter?

I would be too if i was nerfed off the track in a championship decider.

(runs for cover from those that are still in denial adelaide 1994 was anything but that)

((ok, now i'm really running!)

[Arrow]

Originally posted by Enkei



How do you know that from reading the article. Seriously, I can understand if he's still annoyed by Michael, he stole one of his WDC's, that's not exactly something he will forget just like that.

Well im going from what ive seen in the past.
ive never seen him spitting real venom towards michael.

[michaelab]

Originally posted by Witt
Damon Hill Bitter?

I would be too if i was nerfed off the track in a championship decider.

(runs for cover from those that are still in denial adelaide 1994 was anything but that)

((ok, now i'm really running!)

Yawn : Adelaide 94 hasn't been discussed here for, oh, at least a month, so must be time to wheel it out again

Damon Hill bitter? Sore loser more like. Adelaide 94 was a racing incident, what's more, it was Damon's own fault. I refer you to the unbiased Atlas F1 court decision on the case

Michael.

[SeanValen]

Originally posted by Arrow
No damon is cool.
Yes he does stick it into michael when he can but he does it with a smile in a playful way.
A friendly ribbing,nothing more.

If you want to see true bitterness look no further than Johney herbert and jacques villeneuve.
They have serious deep rooted issues with michael.

Johnny Herbert I agree with, he seemed serious, remember him calling Schu the bad egg in 2001 , Hill plays around alot, goofs around, Jacques maybe lighting up a bit, not sure, but he congraluated Schuey on his win at Monza, and DC seems to have patched things up with Michael over time, I guess everyone is looking forward to the future and moving on.

But can't be friends with everyone, that's true for many people.

[troyf1]

I guess we should muzzle any ex-driver who is asked his opinion on something if it diverges from the widely popular opinion that Michael is nothing short of a diety. Would all the Damon bashers in this thread be saying the same thing if he picked Michael to win the title?

[MJP]

Originally posted by troyf1
I guess we should muzzle any ex-driver who is asked his opinion on something if it diverges from the widely popular opinion that Michael is nothing short of a diety. Would all the Damon bashers in this thread be saying the same thing if he picked Michael to win the title?

Yes to your first question, and no to your second.

[doohanOK]

I think that there is probably a lot of 1994 that haunts Hill (not to the fact that it's all he thinks about - I don't know him personally) - I'm sure many drivers have memories that haunt them. I'd say the championship is the most obvious thought, but I think Senna dying would have been difficult - and he would have had his teammate's death on his mind most of the season.

Just look at the teammates he had in seasons 1993 and 1994:
Alain Prost; Ayrton Senna; David Coulthard; and Nigel Mansell.

He had that to deal with, the pressure from everyone because his father won 2 championships; the new big thing on the block in the name of Schumacher, and so forth. At Benetton everything was set up for Schumacher - but at Williams they had an even programme, right?

One can wonder if Williams ran an operation like Benetton and Ferrari have done during the Schumacher years, how different Hill's wins-poles-championships stats would look. One can also wonder how things would have been if Senna didn't die. And on, and on, we can go.

From memory, on the Mansell Grand Prix victories video, Mansell made a comment that the championship in 1992, whilst a crowning glory and a fantastic achievement, still didn't make up for the disappointment of losing the title in 1986. I'm sure Senna was influenced greatly (as he definitely was in 1990) by the 1989 Suzuka decision.

regards,
doohanOK.

[AndreasF1]

Johny Herbert blah blah blah, of couse he is bitter. I'd be bitter too if I get demoralized the way he did against MS in 1995. Keep in mind I dont particularly like MS but there is some truth to that. People have always talked about Johny beeing a nice guy but the true character of a person shines in difficult times, and he was not able to cope with it in 95 and can't to this day. He is mad because Michael did not show him the read outs of his telemetry, if he was that good he wouldn't have needed it. JH was just trying to find an excuse why he couldn't beat MS, and then of course he is really jellous, the traits of a really nice guy.

[RJL]

Originally posted by doohanOK

Just look at the teammates he had in seasons 1993 and 1994:
Alain Prost; Ayrton Senna; David Coulthard; and Nigel Mansell.

Its funny to see DC mentioned in the same sentence with those three.

[Henri Greuter]

Hill bitter about '94

Jeez: to blackflag a driver because of running ahead of the pole sitter BEFORE the start!
And all it caused as a result....

What benefit did Michael have for running ahead of Hill in that warmup lap that he needed to be penalized for?
To me, that has always been the thing FIA needed to stop Michael and rescue the '94 season and make it interesting in the final phase after all against all costs.
That blackflag was rediculous. Furtunately that Michael disobeyed a blackflag so they had a legitimate reason to ban him properly and rescue the season even better. But again, that balck flag for that reason, whoever would have got it, that was a joke.
And without it, (given Michael's fault (and yes, that was a fault!) to disobey the black flack and the resulting two race ban) Damon would never have been in a position to have a chance in Adelaide for the title.

Besides that. when Michael went to Ferrari instead of staying one more (or more) year(s) with Benetton-Renault who was the one who profited from that?
For certain that had Michael stayed one more year with Benetton, Damon would not only have to fight his teammate but then had to fend off Micahel too in the quest for the title.
And given how he performed in '95 under fairly similar circumstances.......

Oh, he's British, and daddy was a legend in racing!
That's probably explains it...

Sorry but Damon was, in my eyes nothing special, Good but nothing more. But having the benefit of a Williams-Renault and those being designed by Newey he used an opportunity many drivers would dream about.
But I give him credit for that: He got a chance and he used it, unlike some others who were outdone by their teammates.

But as a former Williams World champion, could he say anything else I wonder?

Henri Greuter

[Breadmaster]

best this one be closed methinks....

edit: dammit! i can't help meself! - - - - -

MS had traction control/launch control etc etc that year! hah! Frans where are you when i need you?

[Schuting Star]

From the Atlas news story:

"That's not because I'm against Michael but because I think Montoya would deserve it and it would be nice to have a change," added Hill

That doesn't sound bitter to me, it sounds like a very reasonable argument for why he's backing Montoya.

Damon is a former world champion, he's entitled to his opinion.

[Breadmaster]

schuting star - that's what i should have said.......damn it's easy to start to flame isn't it?

[hodgsonc]

If DH was devious and political as MS to turn the team into a one-man band then perhaps he would have still been around today with numerious championships.

With all the money that Ferrari have had at their disposal over the years that MS has been with them they could have easily got another top-rate driver that could have taken on MS one-on-one. He has managed to ensure this has never happended so NO I don't rate him and can never compare his achievements with the likes of Senna, Prost and Fangio.

Winning championships is easy when your teammate has to yield to you from day one of the championship. By this I mean Williams and Mclaren have to 'share' wins between their equally good drivers where MS team mate only gets to win when MS has problems.

I hope he can sleep at night knowing his championships are little more than a farce.

[davegp3]

Originally posted by jake
Is it me, or does anybody else sense that Damon Hill is still bitter & envious of MS's accomplishments. Whenever one hears him talk or quoted, as he was today on Atlas F1 news, it just seems to me it's the same old Damon. Things like how Michael's 'Achilles heel' is the fact that he will buckle under pressure ... yadda yadda yadda.

Excuse me Damon, but, has MS not won 5 Championships - perhaps 6 after this year? How's that for buckling under pressure. Has he not equalled Fangio? Does he not have more wins than Senna? - most wins for Ferrari ? - I've lost count of the poles - etc. While the argument of who is the greatest will go one forever ... one can discuss MS's accomplishments in the same sentence as Senna or Fangio.

One thing is for sure Damon - your ONE WDC is nice, but, you will not hear your name anywhere alongside the greats. Seems you're the guy with the 'Achilles Heel'. Oh, and 1994 was a long time ago. GET OVER IT. YOU LOST!

I am probably over the top with this goof and I do not like to get personal ... nor was what he said all that caustic. It just seems like the same 'ole Damon.

One thing is sure. Your comment is more stupid than the Hill's one.

[SpeakerGuru]

Originally posted by michaelab

Yawn : Adelaide 94 hasn't been discussed here for, oh, at least a month, so must be time to wheel it out again

Damon Hill bitter? Sore loser more like. Adelaide 94 was a racing incident, what's more, it was Damon's own fault. I refer you to the unbiased Atlas F1 court decision on the case

Michael.

DH lives under the illusion that he "pressured" MS into a mistake @ Adalaide in '94.

If he hadn't have tried the exact same hopeless type of banzai pass at Silverstone & Monza in '95, I might actually be in agreement with him. But he did, and so I'm not.

[F1Johnny]

Originally posted by jake
Is it me, or does anybody else sense that Damon Hill is still bitter & envious of MS's accomplishments. Whenever one hears him talk or quoted, as he was today on Atlas F1 news, it just seems to me it's the same old Damon. Things like how Michael's 'Achilles heel' is the fact that he will buckle under pressure ... yadda yadda yadda.

Excuse me Damon, but, has MS not won 5 Championships - perhaps 6 after this year? How's that for buckling under pressure. Has he not equalled Fangio? Does he not have more wins than Senna? - most wins for Ferrari ? - I've lost count of the poles - etc. While the argument of who is the greatest will go one forever ... one can discuss MS's accomplishments in the same sentence as Senna or Fangio.

One thing is for sure Damon - your ONE WDC is nice, but, you will not hear your name anywhere alongside the greats. Seems you're the guy with the 'Achilles Heel'. Oh, and 1994 was a long time ago. GET OVER IT. YOU LOST!

I am probably over the top with this goof and I do not like to get personal ... nor was what he said all that caustic. It just seems like the same 'ole Damon.

Looks like it is just you jake.

I forget, only us posters can have an opinion on who they would like to win the WDC, not past WDCs.

They should make sure it is in the rule books, to stem this outright bitterness on the part of these WDCs and stop them having an opinion.

[Jordan191]

Originally posted by Fortymark


Thank god for launch control he must say....

yah everyone has it .. big deal

[michaelab]

Originally posted by hodgsonc
If DH was devious and political as MS to turn the team into a one-man band then perhaps he would have still been around today with numerious championships.

Don't make me laugh - DH numerous championships? DH was a good driver who lucked out for one year when he had by far the best car, a team mate who was still adapting from CART and the best driver (MS) was in one of the worst cars (1996 Ferrari).

Winning championships is easy when your teammate has to yield to you from day one of the championship. By this I mean Williams and Mclaren have to 'share' wins between their equally good drivers where MS team mate only gets to win when MS has problems.

Whatever the team orders situation, you still have to beat the guys in the other teams which Michael has done on 5 occasions. All the talk of team orders is complete bollox, Michael's team mates have very rarely been in a position to have to yield to him. If you take away his "gifted" positions he'd still have won 5 championships. Can't you just accept that MS has never had a teammate able to get close to him on a regular basis?

I hope he can sleep at night knowing his championships are little more than a farce.

Nothing like the farce of your post Michael is up there with Senna, Clark, Fangio and the other greats allthough trying to make comparisons between eras is a futile exercise.

Michael.

[mach3]

Originally posted by Witt
Damon Hill Bitter?

I would be too if i was nerfed off the track in a championship decider.

(runs for cover from those that are still in denial adelaide 1994 was anything but that)

((ok, now i'm really running!)

No, he's just bitter because he couldn't win the WDC against someone who only ran in 3/4 of the races. Adelaide was just the icing on the cake!

[TEquiLA]

Originally posted by hodgsonc
If DH was devious and political as MS to turn the team into a one-man band then perhaps he would have still been around today with numerious championships.

With all the money that Ferrari have had at their disposal over the years that MS has been with them they could have easily got another top-rate driver that could have taken on MS one-on-one. He has managed to ensure this has never happended so NO I don't rate him and can never compare his achievements with the likes of Senna, Prost and Fangio.

Winning championships is easy when your teammate has to yield to you from day one of the championship. By this I mean Williams and Mclaren have to 'share' wins between their equally good drivers where MS team mate only gets to win when MS has problems.

I hope he can sleep at night knowing his championships are little more than a farce.

And that has to do with the topic being dicussed here how?... Or you are showing us what a bitter comment looks like... If that's the case then I agree that Damon's not bitter at all.

[wadders]

Originally posted by hodgsonc

I hope he can sleep at night knowing his championships are little more than a farce.

Sorry for opening the can of worms even further but hodgsonc started it. I hate it when people do this. Not just because it is Michael Id feel the same way if it was someone else. Underestimating someones achievements is a very serious folly. Michael may have had hand picked team mates but he worked hard - I think that he probably deserved a smaller head ache on the team mate front. I am sorry but in my opinion Michaels talents as a driver attracted the top personnel to Italy to work for Ferrai- it had never happened before Michael in the team. They worked their asses off to bring Ferrari to where it is today.

I am sorry but Michael deserves every bit of credit that he gets and he has nothing to feel ashamed about regarding the team mate situation. I do grant you that he has had weaker team mates compared to the other greats but he has worked hard for what he has earned. You never saw Ayrton or even fangio moving to a team in the doldrums and pulling it forward? He accepted the challenge and rose to a new level. He tamed the Horse that had been running in the wilderness for 21 yrs. Granted it took him 5 years to do it but we are talking of taking an utterly uncompetitive team to the pinnacle of motorsport - it happened last year. Michaels team around him - working hard to achieve what the motorsport fraternity wanted - Ferrari to be great again.

JV hasnt eaxctly been able to do much with BAR has he?And he didnt really have a strong team mate until this year?

Go figure

[michaelab]

Originally posted by wadders
JV hasnt eaxctly been able to do much with BAR has he?And he didnt really have a strong team mate until this year?

Go figure

Excellent post wadders. DH tried to the same thing (take a losing team and turn it around) with his bizarre decision to join Arrows in 1997. That wasn't so spectacular either

JV should have cut his losses with BAR much, much earlier. Now he's screwed. If he hadn't been so greedy about money he could well have had another WDC to his name.

Michael.

[aportinga]

Who the hell is Damon Hill?

[michaelab]

Originally posted by aportinga
Who the hell is Damon Hill?

[Ventura]

Originally posted by Enkei



How do you know that from reading the article. Seriously, I can understand if he's still annoyed by Michael, he stole one of his WDC's, that's not exactly something he will forget just like that.

No, not stole! The beloved FIA fixed it that the 1994 championship would go down to the wire!
There should never been a decider at Adelaide, it should have been rapped up up a few races prior to that. Bernie manipulating TV viewership once more!

[Ghostrider]

Hill was never the most psychologically stable person. And it doesn't seem to have improved since he quit F1.

[FNG]

Originally posted by aportinga
Who the hell is Damon Hill?

[FNG]

Originally posted by wadders


Sorry for opening the can of worms even further but hodgsonc started it. I hate it when people do this. Not just because it is Michael Id feel the same way if it was someone else. Underestimating someones achievements is a very serious folly. Michael may have had hand picked team mates but he worked hard - I think that he probably deserved a smaller head ache on the team mate front. I am sorry but in my opinion Michaels talents as a driver attracted the top personnel to Italy to work for Ferrai- it had never happened before Michael in the team. They worked their asses off to bring Ferrari to where it is today.

I am sorry but Michael deserves every bit of credit that he gets and he has nothing to feel ashamed about regarding the team mate situation. I do grant you that he has had weaker team mates compared to the other greats but he has worked hard for what he has earned. You never saw Ayrton or even fangio moving to a team in the doldrums and pulling it forward? He accepted the challenge and rose to a new level. He tamed the Horse that had been running in the wilderness for 21 yrs. Granted it took him 5 years to do it but we are talking of taking an utterly uncompetitive team to the pinnacle of motorsport - it happened last year. Michaels team around him - working hard to achieve what the motorsport fraternity wanted - Ferrari to be great again.

JV hasnt eaxctly been able to do much with BAR has he?And he didnt really have a strong team mate until this year?

Go figure

Christ not this again. People make it sound like Ferrari were battling it out with Minardi before MS got there

[Ventura]

Originally posted by hodgsonc
If DH was devious and political as MS to turn the team into a one-man band then perhaps he would have still been around today with numerious championships.

With all the money that Ferrari have had at their disposal over the years that MS has been with them they could have easily got another top-rate driver that could have taken on MS one-on-one. He has managed to ensure this has never happended so NO I don't rate him and can never compare his achievements with the likes of Senna, Prost and Fangio.

Winning championships is easy when your teammate has to yield to you from day one of the championship. By this I mean Williams and Mclaren have to 'share' wins between their equally good drivers where MS team mate only gets to win when MS has problems.

I hope he can sleep at night knowing his championships are little more than a farce.

Unfortunatley this is not a drag race championship involving 1 other car, he still has to beat 9 to 11 other teams of varying abilities!
When did Rubens exactly help MS in 2003, I haven't seen it yet! He's under fierce pressure from 3 Michelin teams using "trick" tyres this year!
2001 & 2002 were both a straight WDC canter despite the Austrian GP fiascos. Think Rubens was gifted enough victories last year anyway!

[dpardyrx7]

Damon Hill is not bitter towards Michael Schumacher. He actually interviewed Michael in 2001 for F1 Magazine and other than the normal "ego-rivalry" between two World Champions, he does not hold any real animosity that is apparent. It seems he has gotten past 1994, unlike a lot of the people on this site.

[Ventura]

The Hill comment doesn't concern me at all!
Since his retirement (1999), Hill has been predicting the "other guy" will win the championship
each year !
He's actually a good omen for Schumacher fans, because you can guarantee he'll get it wrong again.!


If you read all the quotes in the media during the last month, you might as well give JPM the WDC trophy right now as most of the F1 celebs are predicting him to win.

My hunch is that MS will win both Indy and Suzuka GPs.

[Ventura]

Originally posted by dpardyrx7
Damon Hill is not bitter towards Michael Schumacher. He actually interviewed Michael in 2001 for F1 Magazine and other than the normal "ego-rivalry" between two World Champions, he does not hold any real animosity that is apparent. It seems he has gotten past 1994, unlike a lot of the people on this site.

I think you are correct!

[black magic]

does in fact anyone really desreve the wdc this year?

ms had his moments but also hungary, brazil, malaysia - hardly stand outs.

jpm? thought ralf had the measure of him frankly till last 3 races and but for bad luck ralf would still be there with him.

ralf? see above

kimi? sorry but whilst he might be doing well in the car with the exception of nurburgring hasn't really dominated a race.

seems to me we're going to get a wdc despite themselves though jpm recent momentum will probably influence most people's memories

[LuvMyWRX]

Irvine: Forget Sixth Title, Schumacher

'His dream of winning a record sixth crown,' said Irvine, 37 who failed to secure an F1 seat in 2003, 'might be over for good.'

Irvine says Juan Pablo Montoya, Kimi Raikkonen and Fernando Alonso are coming and will have made their indelible mark by the time a season-finale comes about. 'Juan Pablo is the guy my cash is on,' the Ulsterman added of the BMW-Williams star, now three points behind Schumacher will two races to run.

Irvine told The Sun: 'The only way Michael will hang on is if the pressure becomes too great for his rivals. But his era is coming to a rapid end.'

I don't think that Damon sounded bitter but was simply backing his old team. Irvine, on the other hand....

[Ventura]

Like I said most of the F1 fraternity are tipping JPM for this year's title, only a few think Schumacher will hang on!

[neil.dorrel]

I don't think Hill said anything untoward. I'm sure that he'll never forget '95, but overall I think Hill is a gentleman. I actually doubt he has anything personally against MS. I'll never forget the...dignity, that Hill displayed in '95. A real sportsman about the whole thing.

He seems like the kind of a guy you could hang out with and have a few pints.

[peebo]

Read all the posts. You have Hill fans, you have Schumacher fans. Neither will agree. I personally dont think Hill is bitter. He seems to be a gent to me. After all he didnt respond to the "incident" in Australia at the time, so why should he now. We shouldnt take everything we read too seriously, should we?

[Mosquito]

Well, I'm a big Schumacher fan, and I think Damon was your typical 'monkey in a Williams' WDC.

Still, I do think there's a piece of truth in it when DH says "And that's where Michael can show his Achilles heel, when he's under pressure. If he feels as though he's becoming the prey, then he gets ragged.".

I am sure he must most be thinking about '94 in that respect, but in a sense, there is a point especially in the 'prey' thing. Schumacher under pressure with the right mind set is a fearsome fighter. As long as he thinks he's 'under control', he's as cool and flawless in his driving as ever.

But I do agree that in the occasions where he is under the wrong kind of pressure and angst sets in, he can sort of panick. He doesn't have many weak spots, but if I'd have to name one, that would be one.

[Ventura]

Originally posted by Mosquito
Well, I'm a big Schumacher fan, and I think Damon was your typical 'monkey in a Williams' WDC.

Still, I do think there's a piece of truth in it when DH says "And that's where Michael can show his Achilles heel, when he's under pressure. If he feels as though he's becoming the prey, then he gets ragged.".

I am sure he must most be thinking about '94 in that respect, but in a sense, there is a point especially in the 'prey' thing. Schumacher under pressure with the right mind set is a fearsome fighter. As long as he thinks he's 'under control', he's as cool and flawless in his driving as ever.

But I do agree that in the occasions where he is under the wrong kind of pressure and angst sets in, he can sort of panick. He doesn't have many weak spots, but if I'd have to name one, that would be one.

MS did ok in Monza over the first lap, if that wasn't pressure i don't know what is.
Let's also talk about the 2000 season, again starting from the Monza GP, he was hounded by Mika
in 3 of those last 4 races (except Sepang) and won them all!
My point is that a driver can change. You might be correct regarding Schumacher in 94 or 97 or 98, but he hasn't shown any signs since then of caving in due to pressure. What pressure is there?
Winning yet another championship making it no.6?
Would you say Montoya in his 1st season (2001) is the same driver in 2003?
I don't think so!

[LB]

Originally posted by black magic
kimi? sorry but whilst he might be doing well in the car with the exception of nurburgring hasn't really dominated a race.

What happened in Malaysia?

[SlateGray]

Originally posted by michaelab

Yawn : Adelaide 94 hasn't been discussed here for, oh, at least a month, so must be time to wheel it out again

Damon Hill bitter? Sore loser more like. Adelaide 94 was a racing incident, what's more, it was Damon's own fault. I refer you to the unbiased Atlas F1 court decision on the case

Michael.

The court could not prove that MS was guilty of punting DH in 94. That is not the same as a finding of innocence.
Also one of the judges in the case is a huge MS fan so the fix was in from the get go on the court case.
Just a reminder OJ Simpson was found not guilty. That does not mean he is innocent.

Unbiased