52 replies to this topic

[David T.]

Already an enthusiast owner of the 1977 edition, I have just put my order for the new three-volume 2nd ed. of Porsche - Excellence was expected . Can't wait to have it on hand and to browse it thoroughly. But - who has it already on his shelf? Any comments or criticism? What's your opinion on a book that's likely to become an instant classic?

[dretceterini]

Karl was at Autobooks in Burbank last friday to introduce the book, but unfortunately, I couldn't make it. I will go there in the next few days and take a look. I think they are asking something like $250 for it. I have the 1st version, so unless the additions are substantial, I will probibly not buy the new edition.

[David T.]

I ordered it at the Libreria dell'Autodromo di Monza for 200 Euro. I downloaded right now the .pdf chapters that I found on the publlisher's web site and checked them against the 1977 edition. Well, there are several changes even if the general plant hasn't varied. No idea if any new photo has been added to the "old" part. But - from 1977 to 2003 Porsche has done (and achieved) a lot, so the first edition is no more sufficient at all. For me it's just enough that KL has changed the still existing chapters - so that I haven't exact duplicates, and will enjoy the rest. Any further comment, please? Happy reading.

[Bob Brzezinski]

The new edition is available from www.amazon.com for $167.97, and you can get free shipping, at least in the States.

According to the www.motorsportcollector.com website, the new edition has 29 new chapters in addition to the original 32, which are themselves updated. The three volumes contain 1,574 pages, 1,629 black and white illustrations, and 151 color illustrations. 742 of the black and white and 50 of the color illustrations are new. I don't own the original but the new edition sounds like a lot of book for $168--

Best,
Bob

[David T.]

Living in Italy, to have the book delivered by Amazon.com would have costed me a lot of p&p. I personally would have preferred a two volumes format, but hey. It's going to be the book of the year, they say.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by David T.
Living in Italy, to have the book delivered by Amazon.com would have costed me a lot of p&p. I personally would have preferred a two volumes format, but hey. It's going to be the book of the year, they say.

P&P to the UK was fairly cheap - it's less than $180 total to get it here (so something like £110-120) whereas Amazon.co.uk are outing it for the full RRP of 159 quid. So I ordered mine from the States - it'll arrive at work while I'm on vacation probably ;P

pete

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by David T.
Living in Italy, to have the book delivered by Amazon.com would have costed me a lot of p&p. I personally would have preferred a two volumes format, but hey. It's going to be the book of the year, they say.

P&P to the UK was fairly cheap - it's less than $180 total to get it here (so something like £110-120) whereas Amazon.co.uk are outing it for the full RRP of 159 quid. So I ordered mine from the States with slow shipping - it'll arrive at work while I'm on vacation probably ;P

pete

[Frank S]

Last time I jumped right in on a thing like this I received the book at about the same time a special deal on a signed edition was announced. What do you think?

On a more cheerful note, Karlkars' Gurney book—signed and in leather—is now on my shelf. Yay.

[theunions]

Originally posted by Frank S
On a more cheerful note, Karlkars' Gurney book—signed and in leather—is now on my shelf. Yay.

Which one?

The one Dan likes or the one Dan doesn't like?

[Bob Brzezinski]

Frank S, I had the same thing happen with the Rinsey Mills Cobra book that came out earlier this year. I ordered it from Amazon U.S. when it was announced in the Fall of 2002, then waited patiently for months and months for it to arrive. When acquaintances in the UK told me that they had gotten theirs already, I canceled my U.S. order and placed one with Amazon UK. It cost more because of the shipping but I was eager to see the book. Of course, the day after I changed my order several friends here in the U.S. got theirs from Amazon U.S., while I waited ten days for mine via overseas mail...

It's tough being a book nut sometimes.;)

Bob

[Frank S]

Originally posted by theunions


Which one?

The one Dan likes or the one Dan doesn't like?

Now there's a question I didn't forecast.

Mine is . . . The Ultimate Racer, ©2000.

I'm afraid to ask which it is.

[David T.]

Well, a little bit of disappointment . I have been browsing the three volumes for some days and I have to say that dretceterini's decision could be a right one. Not that the work isn't gorgeous. The fact is that the origins-1977 part hasn't really changed too much to fully justify a $ 220+ expense. Some chapters look now really "old", especially the ones devoted to the 908 type. If I'm not wrong (I do wish I were) there's not a single row, for example, about the so-called 908/4, that would race until 1983; very very few (not to say none at all) photos have been added to the old part, so that the customer buys a duplicate of the 1977 edition with the bonus of the 1977-2002 chapters. In my modest opinion it's too little. I expected a deeper revision of the old chapters, otherwise if I had known that nearly nothing had changed I wouldn't have bought the new edition - maybe a good book about the 911 and another on the 956/962 would have sufficed. I don't know what to think, but also the photographic part looks quite scanty for today's standards. However this is not a definitive judgement nor an official review - this is only the very first impression of someone who perhaps expected something more from a very long awaited work.

[ensign14]

If it is anything like Quicksilver Century, I won't understand more than one word in 3...my ability with anything mechanical does not go beyond Duplo bricks...

[Dennis Hockenbury]

I donated my original copy of 'Excellence Was Expected' to a fellow Porsche enthusiast in order to make room for the new version of this monumental tome.

I am looking forward to receiving the new 3 volume set. I hope my bookcases will handle the weight given the size of the original.

[David T.]

It doesn't weigh that much, actually.

[karlcars]

To be specific, it weighs 10 kilograms.

I hope on closer inspection folks will see how extensively I brought the earlier chapters up to our latest knowledge about these cars and their makers, but of course it's based on the original book. There are quite a few added illustrations in the early part as well, but pictures were never the point of this book. There are plenty of picture books about Porsches so we saw no point in trying to compete with them.

The decision to split it into three volumes was the publisher's, and I think a good one. This way it's actually possible to read the book! It's meant as a readable history so they decided to make it more accessible that way.

I'm pretty sure TNFers will find a lot to like in the book, especially the sections on the Indycar campaign, the McLaren-TAG and (gasp) the Footwork-Porsche. The 959 development is a saga in itself. I'm also proud of the fact that we don't neglect the four-cylinder and V-8 (pre-Cayenne) models that play such a big role in the Porsche story.

Mention was made of later versions of the 908. I think they're covered on pages 804-805, although the designation 908/4 doesn't ring a bell. But 908/80 does.

Many thanks for any and all comments on the book. I'll welcome corrections that can (I hope) be incorporated in a second printing.

[David T.]

Thank you for your reply, Mr Ludvigsen. When in 1985 at 14 I was given the first edition of your book as a present I hardly could imagine that 18 years later I would be able to exchange message with the author of the book on the Internet. This apart, my little disappointment was stirred by the fact that some connection in the book are not the clearest - for example, no mention about the passage from the 911 GT3-R to the GT3-RS. The GT3-RS is only quoted at some point without ever mentioning its differences with the R. I know well that the work was not intended to be a photographic portrait of the Make, but some fresh stuff would have added some flair to the books. Re the old chapters, it seems to me that the main differences essentially regard the style, even if at a closer inspection there are some remarkable addings hidden somewhere. But anyway some more material of the 908, 934 and 935 racing careers would have been a welcomed adding. What I really mean is that the old chapters perhaps needed more updates especially after 25 years.
Re errors, I'm not deep enough in Porsche history to spot factual faults, and IMO the book is very clean. Only a little item: the man driving the WSC95 shown at page 1308 is not the late Alboreto, but Stephan Johansson, I think.

Yes, privateers' 908s are mentioned in a couple of rows at page 805. Totally honestly I think that Reinhold Joest's glorious Liqui Moly-liveried or Brunn's light blue "quasi-Gulf" 908s would have deserved a little bit more honour.

[David T.]

Having to write a review of the work, I would be very interested in knowing which chapters of the old part have been most revised and/or augmented.

[diego]

Bottom line: this is one helluva book, written with love. I highly recommend it.

[Jack-the-Lad]

I've owned the first edition since it came out, and my new one just arrived today! Can't wait to get home and open the box!

I was at Goodwood Revival, but missed Mr. L's book signing. I'd say that was the only disappointment of the entire weekend.

Jack

[karlcars]

It's hard for me to pick a certain part of the original book that's been most changed, but one area where I tried hard to resolve the history concerned the Abarth Carreras. I think and hope I have their story straight now; it was controversially wrong in the original book.

Also I think the genesis of the 928 is now more fully discussed. And I have the picture of its transaxle that Porsche wouldn't release to me for the original book for some reason!

New too is the story of the radical new range of cars that Ferdinand Piech wanted to introduce for 1972.

Many thanks for all constructive comments!

[David T.]

Thank you to you , Mr.Ludvigsen, for your enormously time consuming enterprise. I can easily imagine how P.E.W.E. will have been a giant effort to perform. Your remarks will prove of invaluable help to set out my review. I also noted some interesting addings in the Can-Am chapters, especially in the 917/30 section.

[karlcars]

You're right, David T. For the first time we have the real story of the world closed-course record attempt by Mark Donohue. Well spotted!

[dretceterini]

The bottom line FOR ME is that I have very little interest in cars built past 1965 or so. As such, since I have the original book, I can not really justify spending over $200 for the new one. Also, my finances aren't what they once were, and $200 is a pretty substantial amount of money for me to spend on any book.

[David T.]

200:3= 66, which is a real bargain if you compare this price with other single volumes.

I'm going on reading and examining the volumes - they really deserve many hours of inspection and careful browsing. It's highly instructive to look for the changes, the addings and the amendments performed by the author in any single point. Are there parts that have been axed, as well?

As suggested, I read the entire Porsche-Abarth section. There are really many changes in it. Keep in touch.

[Magee]

Karl,
I'm very keen to know your reaction to Donohue's The Unfair Advantage book specifically Chapter 25. In the early part of that chapter Mark relates his first introduction to the 917 and its initial difficulties. How much excellence was apparent at that time? Was it as dismal at Donohue states?
Magee

[karlcars]

There certainly were problems with the Can-Am 917 at that early stage. I was present at a test of Penske's first unblown car at Road Atlanta and they had their hands full with that one already.

A notable deletion in the new book is the story that the development of the 917's engine was linked with that of a Porsche project for the German military, which was said to have provided the funding for the engine. I dropped it because I found no evidence to support it. Instead, we have the startling information that Porsche racing in those years was heavily subsidised by Volkswagen, on the condition that air-cooled engines were used to sustain the image of the Beetle!

[David T.]

Fine, I like such remarks!

[David T.]

Yesterday I decided to spend a couple of hours more with the three volume work and I read the chapters about the Arno Bohn affair and the Porsche 965-969 experience. Really valuable stuff. I have to say that Porsche Excellence was expected is like a good wine: you must take your time to enjoy it without wasting it. Its paper smells good as well!

[David T.]

Such a blockbuster work and no further comments? C'mon, guys!

[mudpuppy]

For me, a lifelong Porsche fan and reluctantly self-taught Porsche mechanic, this is a must buy. Didn't know it was going to be released, let alone that it is a three volume set (!!). Maybe I'll also donate my first edition to a fellow Porsche nut.....nah!

[PRD]

Originally posted by petefenelon


P&P to the UK was fairly cheap - it's less than $180 total to get it here (so something like £110-120) whereas Amazon.co.uk are outing it for the full RRP of 159 quid. So I ordered mine from the States - it'll arrive at work while I'm on vacation probably ;P

pete

I copied Pete and ordered my copy from Amazon.com.
Just had an e-mail to say that they have despatched it for $167.97 + $8.98 carriage = $176.95 which is pretty good value.
certainly better than £159

Paul

[karlcars]

Just a quick note to the effect that I've agreed with the British Porsche Club to attend their open day at the Club headquarters on Sunday, 7 December, where books will be available for signing. Further details to come.

[dretceterini]

Comments please about how much of the pre-1965 period stuff has been modified/updated....

[Mark Bennett]

Originally posted by karlcars
Just a quick note to the effect that I've agreed with the British Porsche Club to attend their open day at the Club headquarters on Sunday, 7 December, where books will be available for signing. Further details to come.

Karl,

I assume I can bring the copy I bought at the Porsche Club event at Eynsham Hall?;)

See you there!

Mark

[karlcars]

I can now confirm arrangements for my Porsche book signing, the only one I'll be doing here before the holidays.

It will be at the Porsche Club Great Britain's open day at its HQ at Cornbury House, Cotswold Business Village. Moreton in Marsh, Glos. GL56 0JQ on the afternoon of Sunday, 7 December. It's on the A44 toward Chipping Norton from the centre of Moreton Village. Visitors are advised to call ahead (01608 652911) to reserve a copy at £159.99, because they tell me they only have ten on hand!

Already purchased copies of this and other books are most welcome for signing on the day.

Hope to see some of you there!

Karl Ludvigsen

[ghinzani]

Can anyone tell me why during initial tests in early 76 Autosport called the 936 a Porsche 961 ??

[karlcars]

That's peculiar. 961 bounced around a bit as a type number ( several were used more than once, such as 928) and was eventually assigned to the track-racing version of the 959.

[David T.]

...but what will it happen when Porsche finish the 9xx digits? Will we have a Porsche 1000?

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by karlcars
That's peculiar. 961 bounced around a bit as a type number ( several were used more than once, such as 928) and was eventually assigned to the track-racing version of the 959.

Yes thats what struck me, I remember it racing at Le Mans with some canadians (Kees Neirop? Scott Goodyear? Dick Spenard?) and was therefore surprised to see the nomenclature on a car from 10 years previous.

[karlcars]

We are already well into the post-900-series era. My book contains a table of Porsche type numbers that lists dozens of four-digit numbers. Obvious examples, driven by engine configuration, are 3512 for the Footwork V12 and 2708 for the Indy V8 car. The V6 turbo for TAG was the 2623.

The earliest four-digit number I have is from 1966: 1834, for studies of future Volkswagens. In the beginning, Porsche tended to use such numbers for outside projects.

[karlcars]

Just a quick reminder to any and all interested parties that I'll be signing books this Sunday at the Porsche Club GB's Open Day. Details as reported earlier in this thread.

BTW, thanks for the kind words about Robert Bentley's work in the thread about Palawan. I too feel they did a fine job with the new 'Excellence'.

[Don Capps]

Originally posted by karlcars
Just a quick reminder to any and all interested parties that I'll be signing books this Sunday at the Porsche Club GB's Open Day. Details as reported earlier in this thread.

BTW, thanks for the kind words about Robert Bentley's work in the thread about Palawan. I too feel they did a fine job with the new 'Excellence'.

Too bad I can't take a quick jaunt over to have Karl put pen to paper on my PEWE set. I have genuinely enjoyed reading it, nodding at the corrections and getting a bit of head bob when reading about some background fo various items that I have wondered about....

I am a very Happy Camper with my set. Even She Who Must Be Obeyed has come around after I pointed out the 1956 Speedster on page 142 in Volume 1 -- and simply sighed, thinking about my ol' '56 Speedster, Ferdie -- which was not quite that pristine when I owned it..... Of course, I always wanted Ferdie to somehow transmutate overnight into what is on page 166, a Carrera Speedster like that of Bruce Jennings, even if the skint knuckle factor and the related expenses leapt profoundly....

[Mark Bennett]

Karl,

It was wonderful to meet you and be able to have a few words.

I hope you had an enjoyable time at our club HQ. I'm sure our Board Members have already thanked you, but I would like to add my appreciation and thanks as a club member.

Mark
PS - I wonder what happened to the first few pages of my Dan Gurney copy?;)

[Holger Merten]

I stopped smoking 10 month ago, and now I feel free enough to spend the money I saved in something real. So today I rdered PEwe on Amazon. Gosh, a-nice-price-fort-hree-heavy-fullfilled-with-Porsche-information-by Karl-books. Only 388 swiss francs - lot of book per franc.

I'll hope I could learn of this "bible". There are so many discussions on TNF about Porsche. And I felt always soo empty that I never studied enough about the 904 - 917 era, which I'm mostly interested in.

[D-Type]

Holger,

That's cheating - you're supposed to wait a year!

Congratulations

[Holger Merten]

Yes, I wanted to be sure and safe. But now I have to wait 1 or maybe 2 weeks until the postman will ring.

Can't wait to have the book in my hands

[karlcars]

Well done, Holger! I'm glad you didn't wait a year!

I hope you enjoy the book(s)!

[diego]

Fantastic Holger! I hope you like it!

As for me, my wife gave me the book for my birthday in February and I'm now on page 517.

Karl -- here's an idea for the next edition of the book: on each page, show a small picture of the Porsche design corresponding to the page number. I know this would be difficult to implement, but what a way to communicate the breadth of the Porsche oeuvre!

Truly, this is one of those works which makes you marvel at what human beings can achieve. What an incredible book!

[karlcars]

Suggestions always appreciated!

You know, it's impossible not to be thinking about a future update of the book, but at the same time I have a sneaking feeling that I've covered the story of Porsche during its most interesting period. Now, as it develops (degenerates?) into a non-racing volume producer, I find the company and its cars much less interesting. As well, Porsche today makes it damn difficult to gather the kind of information that I -- and the Porsche enthusiast -- would like to have.

Sorry for these downbeat thoughts but this has been on my mind lately.