13 replies to this topic

[Dead Sexy]

Hi,

I'm a huge Jacques Villeneuve fan, and decided I should read about Gilles as well to understand the kind of background he came from.

I amd really enjoying the book (about 2/3rds of the way through it on my second day of reading), but I can't help but wonder if it is accurate, or slightly over-glorified? Perhaps someone who was a big F1 fan in those times, and who has read the book, could shed light on this? Was he really such a hero?

[Chickenman]

I was fortunate enough to live in the era that Gilles raced. I saw him in his first season at our local track, Westwood. Words alone cannot describe the incredible skill of this man. He was was a hero not only to his fans but was also revered by his peers...other drivers, Team managers and Press. He was revered not only for his skills but also for being such a Genuine human being.

His skill and bravery in the rain has never been equaled IMHO ( and by others such as Jody Scheckter. And Jody doesn't give compliments to many ). I doubt whether Senna could have stayed with him in the rain. Check out the stories about wet qualifying at Watkins Glen in the rain!!! Scheckter, his team mate, was something like twenty seconds behind him.....and Jody was the SECOND fastest guy!!!

What book are you reading and what Author? Although most of the stories seem unbelievable and exaggerated in this day of sanitised and PC drivers... they are true. Widely reported in all publications at the time. Every race weekend he was doing something spectacular. Never a dull moment with Gilles.

Some good reads are: Gilles Villeneuve by Gerald Donaldson ( ISBN 0-7710-2846-6 ) and Villeneuve by Alan de la Plante ( ISBN 0-7715-9851-3 ). The latter is a Pictorial and is filled with incredible photos of Gilles from his earliest years right up to his Tragic final days. I believ Nigel Roebuck also did a book on Gilles.

I haven't read these books in some time. They always remind me of that horrible day in Zolder... but today I am going to pick them up and read them cover to cover again. He was an incredible man.....

[dpardyrx7]

There are a couple of great books on Villeneuve. The best is by Donaldson. I've read them all and most of the outrageous stories have been confirmed by his Widow, Jody Schecter, Mario Andretti etc...
One of the best stories is how he and Schecter would try and outdo each other when driving from Monaco to the Ferrai factory. They would trade off driving and see who could get there the fastest. Not sure who won but the 4 hour trip was usually done in around 1/2 the time.

FYI there are some great videos out on villeneuve with some classic racing footage.

[Tim Murray]

Take a look at this post:

http://www.atlasf1.c...Glen#post820518

Read Richard (rdrcr) Holub's brilliant account of Gilles in the rain. It explains, much better than I ever could, why he is so revered by those of us who saw him race. Things have never been quite the same for me since 8 May 1982.

[Dead Sexy]

I'm reading the Donaldson book.

To be honest I'm not a big fan of historic F1, but I read this because of my interest in JV. It's very interesting though.

What I find most interesting are a couple of the elements that are so similar to current F1.

Ferrari had massive problems with their then MICHELIN tyres. The alternative (Goodyear I believe) were much faster on many occasions. That made me really laugh consider the recent tyre controversy.

The book also makes me angry though. The true racing spirit of Ferrari seems to have been compromised in recent years. It used to be that they would hire two great drivers and let them go at it - how different is it now?

Good book though. I'll finish it by the end of the week and read Flat Out and Flat Broke next - that looks funny. Anyone read it?

[cheesy poofs]

Dead Sexy,

The Donaldson book is "the " book to have on Villeneuve. Here in Quebec, there's another book - although in french - about Gilles which was written by Pierre Lecours. It is also a very interesting read. Both were firm friends well before Gilles became an F1 god !

JV has never openly spoken about his childhood - especially before his father's death. Very few people know about his feelings.

You wanna know what is the difference at Ferrari whereupon back ten ? ENZO ! - that's why !
Villeneuve was never afraid to tell the old man the car was a piece of crap. In return, the old man would tell his engineers to make a better and stronger car.



On a side note, I know that Gerald Donaldson sold Jacques the rights to his father's book that he wrote.

[Dead Sexy]

What is the significance of highlighting the transfer of the book rights?

[Henri Greuter]

Dead Sexy,

Comparing Gilles with Jacques is comparing apples and pears (as they say in my country)
But yes it is true. Not all of Gilles' impossible actions can be found back in race results and statistics but he was something else within F1. Some drivers have equalled parts of his capabilities (car control, determination etc) but nobody was like Gilles. Gilles fought for every position, even if it was for next-to-last and you simply knew that as long as he hadn't retired yet, he could steal the show somehow after all.
1980 was a lousy year for Gilles but he had a car that was the Minardi of its day. And still he popped up at the front on occasions. That was truly out of this world.

Jacques, in his CART years and early F1 years always had good cars, among the best in the field, if not the best. He didn't need to overdrive the car with his personal capabilities, what he had to to was maximise the performances of the cars he drove. Gilles on the other hand had to make up for the shortcomings of his cars (maybe with the exception of '79) by giving his utmost.
Doing so, Gilles provided the lucky people who saw it with spectacles rarely seen before and after.
maybe it didn't yield the best possible results, but it kept the fans talking about him and admiring him. What you're reading is really true.

F1 was so much different in those days, much more a sport. The stakes are so high with sponsorship commitments and money involved nowadays. You can't compare then with today anymore. Gilles fitted perfectly in that era, I wonder if he would have been able to cope with the later conditions. Don't blame only Ferrari for changing their additute: Everyone still in the business and in the business then changed one way or the other. Williams sacked Reggazoni when another driver he rated higher became available, he did the same with Hill 17 or so years later....
Also on the track, drivers became more rough on and for another since the mid 80's. Gilles was hell for any driver who had to fight with him but fair. He didn't appreciate Ferrari politics by the way. But coped with it as good as possible.
He wasn't without errors, make no mistakes. For he had errors, definitely.
But most of all, he did things with cars we hard rarely seen before and since and did it with cars that normally spoken couldn't have achieved that with anybody else in the cockpit but him.
I can think about two other drivers who did near similar things in outclassed cars during their days and were the talk of the time then (and occasionally now) Tazio Nuvolari and Bernd Rosemeyer.
I could add Senna and Michael Schumacher to the list but .... (let's not get into that, there are other threads opened to do that)

I still miss him all all what he stood for, Several drivers improved massively on his records and leave him for death (sorry for that comment) in the statistic dept. But in several respects and aspects, since his death no driver can stand within the shadow of Gilles in my point of view and comparing them with him is an insult to Gilles.
If he had only coped so well with defeat at Imola '82 as he had done on several other races in which he had been defeated fair and square after having given his best and that of the car.
F1 has never been the same for me anymore since 8/5/82 and that it will never be like that anymore has been secured by some of the champs of the years that followed. Gilles would have condemned their behaviour and what they have introduced within F1 and how we took that for granted.

By the way, I was a big Jacques fan in his early years too. Not because of being the son of but for the manner he achieved his siuccess and deal with it. But I am affraid that given what happened in later years with Jacques, no contest who I favor between father and son anymore. I really doubt if Gilles had permitted himself to let happen what Jacques eventually opted for and reacted like.

Enjoy reading about Gilles and regret about what you never had the chance to see in real!



Best regards,


Henri Greuter

[dpardyrx7]

Two other comments on Gilles Villeneuve:

Every year after the Canadian GP, fans are allowed to walk on the track as a way of getting the masses off the island. If you sit at the Senna Curve just past the start finish line this gives you an opportunity to walk past the pits and also the actual start finish line where you will see painted on the track "salut Gilles". It always gives me goosebumps.

I am fortunate enough to own a Ferrari (1984 308) and have had it on a race track in Schubenacadie Nova Scotia. At the end of the main straightaway going into turn 1 is a right hand off-camber turn that is affectionately called "villeneuve corner" in honor of a spectacular off he had there in 1976. I didn't see it live but I have the video clip. Even Gilles' mistakes were spectacular.

Gilles is the reason I watch F1 and the reason I pursued my dream of buying a Ferrari.

[Sintra]

Gilles Villeneuve was my first real F1 hero when I was young. He was also the first person to die when I was old enough to be affected by it. It really impressed me a lot. I was about 11 years at the time...

I bought and read the book you're reading during the '95 Estoril Grand Prix in Portugal and spend most of the time reading it at a nice terasse overlooking the ocean in sunny Cascais during that weekend. Just imagine attending a grand prix and reading that book!!

I loved that bit about his wife and friend warning a lawyer not to let Gilles drive whatever happened and when everyone was asleep Gilles persuaded the lawyer to let him drive. Of course this laywer came to regret he ever gave the steering wheel to Gilles ;-)

[Ray Bell]

I saw him race once, and it was in a dog of a car...

Yet he gave his all... he never gave up, pressing on and on in the hope that those in front would have problems. They did... Piquet put himself off the road, Jones had a fuel pickup problem and Gilles Villeneuve fittingly added the 1981 Gp de Monaco to his list of wins.

But most would remember the next race better... the race in Spain where he held off four others, kept them lined up behind him for the whole race. He could outrun them down the straight - just! - and keep his line through the corners for the whole 200 miles.

I prefer his Monaco drive...

Among Henri's comments
.....You can't compare then with today anymore. Gilles fitted perfectly in that era, I wonder if he would have been able to cope with the later conditions.....

Now you open a can of worms! I wonder how well he would have gone in the fifties, or the sixties?

Put Gilles in a Cooper Maserati, for instance? Like Jochen Rindt... put Gilles in a 250F when the W196 was in full flower... picture these things and tell me he wouldn't have fitted in.

Now rose coloured glasses may be fine things, but there are too many people who remember Gilles with affection to say that they are all wearing them.

Too many who watched him with the wheel falling off at Zandvoort... who saw him tackle the best of the day, lunge at them from behind and beat them... or lunge and lose... and still be smiling at the end of the day...

And have the longest queue for autographs...

[GerardF1]

I watched Gilles race in Formula Atlantic. The first race I saw him in was in 1975 at a race track outside Halifax Nova Scotia called AMP (Atlantic Motorsport Park) in a small town called Schubenacadie. The first turn off the front straight is a dropping righthander which leads downhill to a hairpin left going uphill. It is a very challenging series of turns and a lot of cars just went off into the weeds there. There were no barriers as such, not like today. The idea of a run off area was decades in the future.

Myself and a friend were set up where we could see that section of the track. After watching qualifying my friend turned to me and said "he will either be world champion or dead within 5 years". I remember him saying that so clearly. In 1982 I called my friend and asked him if he remembered what he had said. He replied that he did and wished that he had never uttered those words.

I watched Gilles race in F1 and was always marvelled at the skill and car control he possessed. The will to drive a machine that for several years was a pure dog, and never give up.

The race at Jarama where he had the fastest car in a straight line and the slowest car in a corner. For lap after lap he kept in front.

In France the last lap against Arnoux, not for the win but for 2nd place. Not for the title but just for a podium, just to beat the guy next to him.

Some say he was reckless at that race, to those people I say that both he and Arnoux crossed the finish line and never said a bad word about the others driving. That race at Dijon is remembered for that last lap, not for the first win by a turbo engine car.

He raced in F1 at a time when you had more power then grip. You had to be on a first name basis with oversteer and he certainly liked to drive his cars in a sideways fashion. Maybe he learned that from his snowmobile days, or maybe it was just something that he was born with.

He disliked "ground effects" race cars. They took driver skill out of the equation and that was his greatest asset.

I personally have always rated him in the top 5 drivers ever, but I know that I am biased. Maybe it is because I met him the next year at the same track and shook his hand and congratulated him on winning the race that day.

Maybe there are drivers on the grid today that have his level of skill, but we just don't see it due to the aerodynamics of a 21st century F1 car… but that is a loss for all of us.

Gerard

[Dead Sexy]

Just finished the book. Amazing story.

Just a pity it wasn't written after Jacques' achievements in Formula 1. That would have made for an even more tremendous final chapter - his son going on to achieve the highest honor in F1.

Still a great read..

[Ray Bell]

His son may have won the highest award...

But when it comes to the highest honour, I think history will record Gilles as reaching a higher plane than Jacques.