23 replies to this topic

[gdecarli]

On a stall (!) at Mostra Scambio Imola I found a little card with an old Le Mans layout. I copied it and I uploaded on my website:



Click on the map to open my page with more details

This is layout used from 1955 to 1967; I'm sure about it because of track lenght on original map.
No problem about the traditional circuit, but what about the blue road?
I know that is the road D92 from Arnage to I-don't-remember-the-name, but why was drawn on that little card? No more roads, tribunes, pits, corners name, ... were drawn, only main circuit and this road... Why?
Was there a proposal for using it from racing or testing purpose?

Ciao,
Guido

[BRG]

I know of no plan to include this road in the circuit.

I think it may be shown simply because it is the only road that remains open to serve the central part of the circuit - access is needed becuase there are farms and houses in that area who might not be too pleased to be cut off from the world completely for 24+ hours! You used to be able to get along the road, which goes under the track by a bridge at the Maison Blanche end (but is closed at the Hunadieries end IIRC).

Anyone else know anything?

[gdecarli]

It could be, but it's strange that there were cards about Nürburgring, Sebring and maybe some more circuits but they had only the track, nothing more.
This photo can give an idea of card I'm speaking about:



You can see Nürburgring (on the top) and Le Mans (bottom); I can't recognize the central one, but surely it was not so important.
Of course I draw my map by heart, not looking at this photo, as it's very hard to understand something...

I wanted to go back to buy it (only 0.50 Euro) but I didn't do for two reasons:
- I finished all my money somewhere else
- this stall was at Acque Minerali, so quite far away from pits, where I finished my lap (my record is in 2 hours and half for one lap!) and I was quite in a hurry.

For who don't know Mostra Scambio Imola, I say only that it's a big market spread on ALL Imola circuit!

Ciao,
Guido

[Lotus23]

Guido, it certainly is the same layout I knew and loved from 61-63 inclusive. I really don't recall any major road along the route of the blue line, but of course there were several miles of secondary paved roads within the perimeter of the race circuit. At one point, I knew them all by heart, but that was when I wore a younger man's clothes.

I do recall, for instance, that during the race one could drive from the signalling pits (just after the Mulsanne corner -- where the "E" in MULSANNE is in your map) back to the main pits if one knew which of those squiggly back roads to follow.

Your blue line certainly could've represented one of those smaller roads.

[Kpy]

The blue line represents the D92 public road - closed to public traffic from just west of where it passes under the circuit close to the Porsche Curves, when the full circuit is in use. It is the road from Arnage village to the village of Ruaudin via a roundabout on the N138 (Mulsanne Straight to you and me).
Sorry it's such a mundane answer!

[LittleChris]

Plus a new roundabout at the Maison Blanche end

[Mark Bennett]

A new roundabout?

You mean another little bit of history has gone? - the old "straight" run from Arnage to the start/finish (OK so there is a grandstand in the way already, but even so...!)

[LittleChris]

They were building this new roundabout when I was there in late July. It is situated just before the little bridge over the stream that is located about 100m metres before Maison Blanche.

There's also a roundabout been built at Paradis ( Rouen ), not sure when but I don't think it was there in 2002 during my last visit.

As for roundabouts at St Gaudens ( Comminges )

[Kvadrat]

I'm looking for 54 km Le Mans circuit layout used from 1911 to 1913. Does anyone have it?

[robert dick]

Pontlieue (= hairpin in the South of Le Mans), Parigné-l'Évêque (D304), hairpin near Le Grand-Lucé (D304/D32), Écommoy (D32), Mulsanne (N138), Pontlieue. Start/finish between Mulsanne and Pontlieue. Run clockwise.

[Kpy]

And in 1906 the Grand Prix de l'ACF was held here:

[gdecarli]

Thanks!

Ciao,
Guido

[Kvadrat]

I've got this 1906 map from Cimarosti's book:


Kpy, your map is more detailed. Great!

Robert, thank you for description, but do you have map? I probably asked incorrectly, I'm looking for a map.

[Hieronymus]

I wonder if the Le Mans experts on this forum can please perhaps assist me with regards to the exact position of the old PONTLIEUE hairpin (1923-1928 layout).

Was the old circuit and Pontlieue corner in the yellow or the blue indicated on the GOOGLE EARTH images?



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[BRG]

I think it is the yellow line. The corner was the junction of Rue de Laignie and Avenue Georges Durand. See the picture at http://www.teamquail...ry/history1.htm (scroll down to the bottom) and compare with Google Streetview. I think the house on the right in the old picture is still there.

[Hieronymus]

I think it is the yellow line. The corner was the junction of Rue de Laignie and Avenue Georges Durand. See the picture at http://www.teamquail...ry/history1.htm (scroll down to the bottom) and compare with Google Streetview. I think the house on the right in the old picture is still there.

Thank you, I also concluded that it must be the route in yellow after looking at some old photos. Anyone else agree or disagree?

[vekspeed]

Thank you, I also concluded that it must be the route in yellow after looking at some old photos. Anyone else agree or disagree?

I agree, it's got to be the Yellow one, as it follows the Rue de Laignie directly from the circuit.

[Hieronymus]

The hairpin must thus be this be place...



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[LittleChris]

The hairpin must thus be this be place...



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I agree since if you go back along the Rue de Laigne toward the start finish area, eventually you will find the Rue de Circuit ( 2nd road south of the ring road ( Boulevard Jean Moulin ) used to bypass the Pontlieue Hairpin in 1929 -31 before the link to Tertre Rouge came into being for the 1932 24 hours

[Hieronymus]

I agree since if you go back along the Rue de Laigne toward the start finish area, eventually you will find the Rue de Circuit ( 2nd road south of the ring road ( Boulevard Jean Moulin ) used to bypass the Pontlieue Hairpin in 1929 -31 before the link to Tertre Rouge came into being for the 1932 24 hours

Thanks, much appreciated. Will try to get to these areas then.

[Jager]

The hairpin must thus be this be place...

Thought I'd add this picture from the 1923 race. What happened to the trees :

[Hieronymus]

Thought I'd add this picture from the 1923 race. What happened to the trees :

A wonder pic, Jager! Many thanks. The trees are gone, but the stretch down rue Georges Durand now sports a Tramline with green grass.

[Hieronymus]

Here a photo from a different angle. Sammy davis in his Alvis in 1928:

http://www.hells-con...20cornering.jpg

...and today with courtesy of GOOGLE EARTH:



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[BRG]

Thought I'd add this picture from the 1923 race. What happened to the trees :

Judging from the 1928 shot that Hieronymus posted, someone had already taken a saw to them by then.

And obviously they wouldn't want leaves on the new tram lines, so just good advanced planning by the French!