24 replies to this topic

[FordPrefect]

Yesterday two people died at Goodwood, a driver and one of the marshals. A second marshall is in hospital in critical condition.

I have never been to Goodwood but I always catch it on Speedvision. It always looks very laid back, sort of a trip down memory lane. It does appear to me however that some of the cars are racing under track conditions that also seem a little nostalgic.

I would like to hear from anyone who has been there, do you feel that the track itself is unsafe? I imagine there will have to be changes made in light of this weekends events.

It goes without saying that I would like to express my sympathy for the two men and their families. I also hope the second marshall makes it.

FP

[Ray Bell]

The answer to your question may be had from Eric McLoughlin, who posts in the Nostalgia Forum and has started a thread on Goodwood ("Festival of Speed") on which he posted a bit of detail about the day. He didn't see the accident, having left early, but is familiar with the surroundings.
I've been meaning to tell you, too, that many people who were around when Ford Prefects were common called them 'Rejects.' No slur intended...[p][Edited by Ray Bell on 06-25-2000]

[Ross Stonefeld]

Goodwood is probably one of the most dangerous places in all of racing, just based on setting. However the drivers that are there arent just joe-schmoe driving the Ferrari F93a he bought a few years ago. You have Rene Arnoux driving an 85 williams, Heidfeld in the 97 Mclaren, etc and they are WELL aware of the dangers and drive accordingly. I think Goodwood has had an outstanding safety record all things considering.


Ross Stonefeld
Aztec Group Motorsport

[Yelnats]

Jack Brabham came near to "Buying the Farm" when he skidded across one of their inadaquate runnoff areas and hit the wall last year during the Vintage Race weekend. It looked like a pretty dangerous place to me, as lovely as it is.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I thought Brabham crashed on track, not the hill climb?

Ross Stonefeld
Aztec Group Motorsport

[Ray Bell]

He certainly did. This weekend it was the hillclimb.

[John B]

Someone in an ex-Villeneuve 1978 Ferrari had a huge crash in recent years in the hillclimb, getting airborne and breaking both of the driver's legs on impact, I forgot if it was close to a spectator area but may have been.

Off the subject the 6-wheel 1982 Williams has made appearances at Goodwood in the hands of Jonathan Palmer.

Best wishes to all affected by the accident.

[JayWay]

Yelnates,

I saw that crash,and thought he was dead as well.

[theMot]

What do you expect? Have you seen the way that place is laid out. They put bales of straw along the side of the track. Gives new meaning to the phrase "chrash and burn"

[John B]

In the US we have the Pike's Peak hillclimb coming up soon (the big story, as it has been for the 1990s, is will Rod Millen finally break the 10-minute barrier) - what's the safety situation like there? Does it compare to Goodwood at all? (the first thing that popped into my mind was "liability......"

[MattB]

I have always wanted to travel to watch the Goodwood Festival. So many famous machinery on display and in action with what has always seemed to be a relaxed atmosphere. I have wondered about safety. The description of the accident from Autosport sounds horrible. Motorsports can be so fullfilling and exciting, and when it turns cruel, it becomes unbearable.

[Damop]

I thought only Tyrrell made a six-wheeler in the latter part of the seventies...

[FredF1]

I saw footage of the crash last night on the news. It seemed to me that the car got light at the brow of the hill and missed the apex - it just ploughed straight into the side of the finishing post. There was that horrible silence when a bad accident has ocurred - you could see the body of one of the marshalls lying on the ground - terrible.

[RedFever]

Damop, Tyrrell is the only 6 wheeler that actually raced in F1, but Williams developed one as well, but it never raced. Major difference: Tyrrell had 4 front wheels, Williams 4 rear wheels.

[Ross Stonefeld]

at Pikes Peak there arent even guardrails on some of the turns. Drop a wheel and its going to be a long pause before you finally hit the bottom.

Ross Stonefeld
Aztec Group Motorsport

[Peter]

TheMOT: yes the bales of straw are part of the historic setting. If you put up miles of Armco it would become just another modern racetrack which would be defeating the whole object of the "Historic" Festival of speed. Unfortunately, as the warning notices say, "motor sport is dangerous".

My sympathies are with the bereaved and it is a shame that such a tragedy marred a fairly unique occasion.

It is still a safer place to be than at a World Rally Championship event. The spectators there a just plain suicidal!

[Sting]

What type of car was involved in the crash? Could it's heritage have contributed to the crash?

[Eric McLoughlin]

As Ray Bell mentions further up the thread, I have been providing some updates on the Goodwood Festival in the Nostalgia Forum. I did not see the accident - I don't even think it was shown on British TV. The car involved was a 4 wheel drive Lotus 63, one of two made by Lotus in 1969.

On Sunday, Tony Smith comprehensively stuffed a Maserati Tipo 61 "Birdcage" into the hay bales at Mulcombe corner. It was a high speed off but the bales did their job, the front of the car being heavily bent but the driver walking (or more accurately - hobbling) away. In many respects, hay bales are far more effective than Armco. Don't forget, Armco was installed at race circuits originally to prevent cars going into the crowd, not to protect the driver.

There were also a number of accidents involving the charity Soap Box Challenge on Saturday, with two drivers (if that's what you call the occupant of a soap box) being taken to hospital.

The incident invoving the ex-Gilles Villenueve Ferrari (actually owned by Nick Mason)happened at the 1994 event. The driver, Mike Wilds, lost control just after he passed under the footbridge and proceeded up the hill sideways until he hit the kerbing at the paddock entrance. The impact (which sounded like a rifle going off) took the entire front end off the car, severly injuring his legs. The accident happened right in front of me and I caught the whole thing on my video camera. Apparently, the car was running on its original 1978 slicks! Both Mike and the car have now fully recovered.

I think the events of the week-end will prompt Lord March to re-think the format of the "Festival" with far less emphasis on timed runs and far more on entertaining the public. I felt last year that Nick Heidfeld's record in the McLaren was almost too fast for the hill - my hunch is now that it will be a record which will never be broken.

[theMot]

Peter,

who cares if its an historic race? They still should have much better safety standards than that.

[Eric McLoughlin]

I think people are getting confused between the two totally different events held at Goodwood. The Festival of Speed, held over the past few days, is a hillclimb event which takes place in the grounds of Goodwood House, NOT at the race cicuit, which is about one mile away. The safety precautions at the hillclimb are as good as is possible given the nature of the venue - Lord March's private drive, in effect. To be fair, the other more regular hillclimb venues in the UK (Prescott, Shelsey Walsh etc.) are very similar in layout and in some respect are even more dangerous.
Where the Festival of Speed does have a problem is that many of the cars and drivers who participate in the hillclimb are not seasoned hillclimbers and are sometimes caught off guard by things like camber or the road surface. Also, many of the drivers are "guest" drivers who are not used to the particular car they may be driving that week-end (eg. when did Damon Hill last drive a 1968 Honda Formula 1 car?).
The Revival Meeting at Goodwood Race Circuit is now held each September. Jack Brabham's crash last year was at the race meeting on the circuit. Lord March has done an excellent job in improving the safety aspects of the old Goodwood track. He has not installed any Armco as it was not featured at Goodwood prior to its closure in 1966. However, Armco has limited effect as a driver safety feature (see my post above). Instead, he has cut back the embankments around the track and inserted tyre walls virtually around the entire circuit. The tyres have been placed behind rubber conveyor belts. Fast growing shrubbery is being trained to grow around these tyre walls so that eventually they will become part of the embankments. Gravel traps HAVE been constructed at the main corners (Woodcote, Madgwick and Lavant) but that is the only concession to modernity. In some respects, Goodwood is now one of the SAFEST race tracks in Britain. What Lord March cannot do is improve the safety of old racing cars. A heavy impact in 1968 in a 1968 McLaren is still as likely to hurt you in 2000 as it did in 1968! It's up to the drivers to be aware of this and drive accordingly. Whilst some of the younger generation of drivers may find this difficult, I think it was ironic the lasy year's accident was precipitated by two veterans (Jack Brabham and Jackie Oliver) having a coming together at St Marys.

[PAD]

I went to the Goodwood Festival of Speed a couple of years ago, and as a spectator you do realise that it is not a safe place for motorsport.

The finish line where the tragic accident occurred is quite along way from the main action/paddock and I did not get to see that area, but I did see the firat two-thirds of the "track". I remember standing in a popular place near the house about 10-15 metres away from the track. All the crowd protection if grass, haybales and a simple fence. Further up the climb is the famous wall - very solid looking!

It is a great event in that you may see a WRC rally car immediately followed up the hillclimb by a 60's F1 car followed by a Le Mans car. Going to the paddock and being deafened by Stefan Johannson's turbo Ferrari being warmed up next to me was amazing. I think that the Festival is great from an aural point of view - to me the hillclimb was a disappointment.

I am sure that the drivers have a lot of respect for the track, but many are amateurs (owner-drivers) in powerful machinery; some drive cautiously, but most do go for a fast run. I have to say the it is surprising that there have not been more accidents at the Festival of Speed, and that if there were, the crowd could be in potential dangerous positions.

[DOHC]

While searching the web for other Lotus 63 info, I came across this web page written by the marshall Steve Tarrant, who was seriously injured in the Goodwood 2000 accident where the 63 went off at the end of the hillclimb. Another marshall and the driver was killed.

http://freespace.vir..... Accident.htm

Tarrant's brave struggle to adapt to a new life is a story that concerns us all.

[VAR1016]

Originally posted by DOHC
While searching the web for other Lotus 63 info, I came across this web page written by the marshall Steve Tarrant, who was seriously injured in the Goodwood 2000 accident where the 63 went off at the end of the hillclimb. Another marshall and the driver was killed.

http://freespace.vir..... Accident.htm

Tarrant's brave struggle to adapt to a new life is a story that concerns us all.

Unbelievable - how do people do this? I would just give up, I am sure.

I have enormous admiration for him

PdeRL

[Locai]

Originally posted by John B
In the US we have the Pike's Peak hillclimb coming up soon (the big story, as it has been for the 1990s, is will Rod Millen finally break the 10-minute barrier) - what's the safety situation like there? Does it compare to Goodwood at all? (the first thing that popped into my mind was "liability......"

John B, I saw that ESPN2 had a one-hour show on this year's Pike's Peak hillclimb. It was on this week at some point (I think during the day).

Pike's Peak has no safety situation. If you go off-track on one side then you hit the side of the mountain. If you go off on the other side then you have a long ways to the bottom.

There was a guy driving in the semi-truck division who, just after crossing the finish line, turned left right into a boulder. He flipped his truck on impact. Quite scary. Luckily he turned into the mountain and not away from it.

[karlth]

Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
I felt last year that Nick Heidfeld's record in the McLaren was almost too fast for the hill - my hunch is now that it will be a record which will never be broken.

Didn't McNish in his Toyota break the record this year?