43 replies to this topic

[WDH74]

So, I bought the DVD reissue of the proper Italian Job, and watched it tonight for the first time in a couple of years, and noticed something that I didn't remember from the last time. During the "practice" scene, where the drivers are practicing (and failing miserably) at jumping the Mini Coopers, there are definite starting blocks and numbers painted on the pavement. Plus, some rather obvious racetrack furniture, like PA systems and a Shell advert. Does anybody know which track was used to film this bit of the movie? Or was it a clever racetrack mockup? A silly, completely inconsequential question, I know, but it's been bugging me for two days now!
Thanks!
-William

[Ray Bell]

If it looks like an old airfield, you might be at Silverstone or Snetterton...

You don't mention grandstands, so Brands is out... Oulton Park? Trees might feature there, as they would at Crystal Palace.

Can you get a video capture of a frame?

[Vitesse2]

It was filmed at Crystal Palace - definitely. As I'm sure 2F-001, BJB and others who, like me, knew and loved the place will confirm.

Camera position was on the steps up to the remains of the Palace itself.

You were only meant to blow the bloody doors off!

[Gary C]

spot on, Vitesse!!!

[flyingfin]

thx for starting this thread..i too wanted to know the place where they did the stuff...btw how did u like the movie...according to me it was DUMB...but the cooper was

[Gary C]

it's great fun!!

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Gary C
it's great fun!!

Best thing about the new movie: Charlize Theron. Looks great, acts fairly well and plays a very cool character. There are a few good explosions, and some of the scenes of the robbers practising in the new Mini Coopers have a certain dynamism to them.

The car scenes in LA are a bit disappointing; the best robbery is the Venice one at the start of the movie. It feels a bit like a film in reverse, with the best set-pieces and drama at the beginning!

It's a good tongue-in-cheek gadget thriller with some witty lines and a few gosh-wow moments, but without any of the off-kilter charm of the original. It's in no way a remake - different story and characters (although there's still a Bridger, still a Charlie Croker).

Wahlberg lacks Caine's charm, Edward Norton seemingly FAXed in his performance, although Donald Sutherland's cameo is pretty good too.

Oh and it lacks a cliffhanger ending.

A good way to pass a couple of hours on a plane, possibly a DVD to rent, but not something I'd pay money to watch at the movies or buy.

[Gary C]

flyingfin,, are you talking about the original movie or the new version??

[WDH74]

Thanks, Vitesse....I'd not thought about Crystal Palace, but it makes sense due to its location. I was quite certain it was not Silverstone (pitlane furniture was all wrong) or Brands (the front straight at Brands is not flat, but curvy and hilly), or Oulton (same reasons as Brands). As for the movie itself, I always thought it was fun, and bears rewatching. I didn't rate the new version very highly, though, because it's not fun enough to see again. I watched it yesterday because I'm officially banned from watching any more Cubs games-every time I watch they lose!!!
-William

[Jonas]

Ok, even if the circuit has already been established, I thought it could be nice with a couple of shots from the movie..





These are two shots I found relevant. If someone wants shots from another scene, that's no problem. Just let me know..

[RTH]

I remember standing at that very point looking down on the track to watch the start of the "London to Sydney Marathon " in 1967 - anyone else there ?

[Ray Bell]

Thanks, Jonas... and look at what we find!

The van facing away from us... that's a Thames the same model as the one on the other thread, the thread about the Brabham!

As for others there in 1967 (I guess you mean TNF members or lurkers?), I guess if I try hard I can think up a competitor who joins us from time to time... Max Stahl will one day.

[Only Massa]

Originally posted by WDH74
So, I bought the DVD reissue of the proper Italian Job, and watched it tonight for the first time in a couple of years, and noticed something that I didn't remember from the last time. During the "practice" scene, where the drivers are practicing (and failing miserably) at jumping the Mini Coopers, there are definite starting blocks and numbers painted on the pavement. Plus, some rather obvious racetrack furniture, like PA systems and a Shell advert. Does anybody know which track was used to film this bit of the movie? Or was it a clever racetrack mockup? A silly, completely inconsequential question, I know, but it's been bugging me for two days now!
Thanks!
-William

I don't know, the film was shoot here in Turin (italy). Maybe the circuit is Lombardore Circuit, near Turin. I have been there once when I was a child, but I don't remember it very well. I'm going to investigate.

One funny thing is that any time a new english dj comes to play in our town, usually he begins his set with "Self Preservation Society", taken from the movie: a musical tribute to our wonderful town.

[2F-001]

Thanks for posting the pics, Jonas.
The top one is the latter-day start/finish straight (Obviously! It's covered in grid markings!). This is the only section of the track that has been comprehensively butchered. Somewhere beyond the red Mini would be the point where James Hunt decked Dave Morgan with a punch after the (notorious) F3 race in 1970 - featured in the BBC's 'Great Sporting Moments'.

The bottom one, showing Maxim Rise and South Tower Corner, is not so far from what you'd see today. The low bridge is still there - that's a footbridge over the track as access to the National Sports Centre (Athletics, Pool, Indoor Hall etc - that's 'Pool' as is wet and splashing about, not that bar-room Mickey Mouse version of Billiards on a tiny table that is the foundation of a misspent youth - what am I doing?) from the rail station. The low building at the end of the bridge with the white slots is some old turnstile gates (from late sixties, I'd guess) and is still there. The road entrance (top right) is bigger and the road way running across the middle is a little more grand with a bigger junction on the track.

At some point, I'll get off my butt and try to recreate those views as they are today and send them to one of you to post. If there is anything anyone would particularly like to see or know what is still there - say so and I'll go take a look. Don't hold your breath though, I'm pretty bad at getting things done!

I guess many of you know anyway - but the names of South Tower Corner and Maxim's Rise relate to features of the Crystal Palace exhibition when the building was moved here and developed from it's original, temporary site on Hyde Park in central London. The towers were huge brick water silos which dominated the skyline and gravity-fed the complex system of fountains and water features. Maxim had his 'Flying Machine' there. This was in a sense a fairground ride with the 'cars' spinning high around a central pole, but were actually flying of there own accord, tethered to the column (like a kind of aerial round-the-pole racer - I'm not old enough to remember those, but I've read about them: theme there for a thread, anyone?).

[dolomite]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
The van facing away from us... that's a Thames the same model as the one on the other thread, the thread about the Brabham!

That's the van that gets blown up, isn't it? (as in 'You're only supposed to ..." etc)

[Eric McLoughlin]

Where are the Robert Owen dinosaurs models in respect of the track?

Not many people know that The Crytal Palace was also the original Jurrasic Park.

[2F-001]

Hi Eric - the dinosaurs are to the south, outside of the circuit, just below 'Ramp Bend'. They were craned out and restored off-site a few years ago. I don't think too many people realise just how old they are (the ''statues'' I mean). They do look pretty good, lurking in the foliage around the lakes.

I walked across (and partly around) the track today. The second of of Jonas's pictures I find will be nigh-on impossible to re-do. I hadn't realised just how many trees there now are on the inside of where South Tower Corner was - around where the white van is. I couldn't find anywhere on the Terraces that gave a view of the 'Low level' bridge from that direction. That square building, just above the van, is still there - but I'm not sure it even functions as a gatehouse or security post anymore: it was largely cluttered up with junk and had a couple of broken windows.

The Low level bridge is so named because it led, indirectly, to the 'Low level' rail station. The Palace used to be served by two - the High-level station was up beyond the Terraces high above the start/finisg straight. The High-level station, now gone, had an interesting history in itself. The station served, principally, The Palace and first-class passengers could stroll off the platform through beautiful vaulted brick and tile tunnels (still existing) beneath the road and directly into Paxton's ''glasshouses''. The plebs had to climb up the steps and cross the main road. In it's early days the station was served by an electric train system, before being replaced by the more conventional steam locos. The Palace area also saw the development of a pneumatic-powered train system.

[PRD]

Originally posted by petefenelon


Best thing about the new movie: Charlize Theron. Looks great, acts fairly well and plays a very cool character. There are a few good explosions, and some of the scenes of the robbers practising in the new Mini Coopers have a certain dynamism to them.

The car scenes in LA are a bit disappointing; the best robbery is the Venice one at the start of the movie. It feels a bit like a film in reverse, with the best set-pieces and drama at the beginning!

It's a good tongue-in-cheek gadget thriller with some witty lines and a few gosh-wow moments, but without any of the off-kilter charm of the original. It's in no way a remake - different story and characters (although there's still a Bridger, still a Charlie Croker).

Wahlberg lacks Caine's charm, Edward Norton seemingly FAXed in his performance, although Donald Sutherland's cameo is pretty good too.

Oh and it lacks a cliffhanger ending.

A good way to pass a couple of hours on a plane, possibly a DVD to rent, but not something I'd pay money to watch at the movies or buy.

I think Pete's conclusion is a little harsh. Sue and I watched it on Wednesday and enjoyed it so I'd say its worth seeing. Just don't expect it to bear any resemblance to the original though.
It's better than "Calendar Girls" !!

Regards

Paul

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by dolomite
That's the van that gets blown up, isn't it? (as in 'You're only supposed to ..." etc)

That's a fitting end for one of those Thames vans, isn't it?

Old Consul engine breathing heavy...

[Vitesse2]

The white one's the one they blew up. A Commer, I think.

Tony: those dinosaurs scared the cr*p out of my three small nephews! I deliberately hadn't told them they were there - all they were expecting was the zoo (is that still there BTW?)

[Ray Bell]

Yes, Speedy, very likely a Commer...

I actually thought that myself, that the old van was the one that went. Movie budgets weren't so big those days, and after they scrapped the Lambo (I'll never get over that!) I doubt they had much more to waste on wanton destruction.

Except the Minis, of course, but they were always expendable... ask Morr... sorry, ask Catalina Park...

[Criceto]

Don't worry, Ray.

Freeze-framing the action reveals that the Lamborghini Miura is an accident-damaged rolling shell. There's distortion all down the right side and when it goes over the cliff there is clearly not a shred of usable mechanical componentry inside it.

What is more of an enigma is the silver Aston DB4. The book of the making of the film assures us that it was a real Aston Martin which was destroyed, but there are anomalies. There is a silver DB4 running round in England with the same licence plate as the film car to this day and there are repeated suggestions that the car which was sacrificed was a "mere" Lancia Flaminia doctored to look like the Volante. If you look carefully, there are things like the crashing car's bonnet hinging at the scuttle, whereas an Aston bonnet opens at the nose....

Still haven't been able to freeze-frame the action well enough to figure out if it's an Aston straight six or a Lancia vee which is visible when that bonnet opens.

The blue E-Type is definitely a write-off but the red Roadster is very much alive and well, beautifully restored and on the show circuit to this day.

Then of course there is the question of the fourteen Mini Coopers which they got through during the filming....

[Ray Bell]

Like I said, the budgets weren't so big those days...

The Blues Brothers, for instance, is said to have accounted for the lives of no fewer than 150 Chevys!

A mere 14 Mini Coopers (about the same as you'd see written off at an average Brands Hatch club race day?) was nothing...

And even if the Lambo wasn't complete, and was damaged, I'm sure it would have been possible to restore it to a condition where it looked (and, for its time, went...) better than almost any other car ever made!

How many Minis died in the setting in the picture above? And I look forward to learning about your Lancia theory... keep up the good work, Tim.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Like I said, the budgets weren't so big those days...

The Blues Brothers, for instance, is said to have accounted for the lives of no fewer than 150 Chevys!

A mere 14 Mini Coopers (about the same as you'd see written off at an average Brands Hatch club race day?) was nothing...

And even if the Lambo wasn't complete, and was damaged, I'm sure it would have been possible to restore it to a condition where it looked (and, for its time, went...) better than almost any other car ever made!

How many Minis died in the setting in the picture above? And I look forward to learning about your Lancia theory... keep up the good work, Tim.

Ever seen the claims for how many General Lees there were in The Dukes of Hazzard? - makes The Blues Brothers look parsimonious, IIRC!

[Frank S]

Originally posted by petefenelon


Ever seen the claims for how many General Lees there were in The Dukes of Hazzard? - makes The Blues Brothers look parsimonious, IIRC!

A pair of BBC History specials, right?

[WDH74]

Thanks for posting the pics, Jonas. I watched that scene again after reading that it was Crystal Palace, and sure enough, it looks like the few pics I've seen in magazines, as well as the version of Crystal Palace I used to have in Grand Prix Legends. Your pics confirmed it! Ahhh, I can sleep now.
-William

[Phillip]

Originally posted by petefenelon

A good way to pass a couple of hours on a plane, possibly a DVD to rent, but not something I'd pay money to watch at the movies or buy.

I watched it on a plane to aussie last month and kept falling alseep :

[2F-001]

There was a doc on the TV here a couple of weeks back, about the making of the (original) film, with a lot of interview clips with some of the people involved. Their account of the Muira was that the rolling shell was supplied by Lamborghini (if pre-damaged, the presumably one they's had back for a possible re-build?). It was said that the E-types and the Aston were all genuine runners, bought as cheaply as poss and buffed up to look ok on screen - the story was that all the vehicles had to driven down to the locations.

The Aston/Lancia substitution occurred after the DB4 had been graunched by the digger - when it was time to shovel it off the precipice: a special-effects charge went off too soon, spoiling the take. A panic search of continental scappies failed to yield a suitable Aston, so the substitute was purchased and camoflaged with tape and paint. Well. that's what they said.

It was also said that many of the stunts were done for real - including jumping the Minis across the gap between buildings, which were pretty high. They said that, in case anything went terribly wrong, there was a car standing by with the engine running ready to whisk the director (or the producer?) to an airfield from where he could skip the country fast and argue culpability from a safe distance!

[WDH74]

A similar documentary is on the DVD release. Apparently, if there is an accident, the director could be charged with manslaughter should anyone die. Rather like how Senna's team was being charged with his death because of a possible mechanical failure. So the idea that there was someone ready to whisk the director and producer back to England could be true. Don't know why they worried so much, or do they not like spaghetti?
-William

[Joe Fan]

I haven't had a chance to see this movie yet but how much of a "car movie" is it?

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Criceto


Then of course there is the question of the fourteen Mini Coopers which they got through during the filming....

And prepared by the old BMC Special Tuning department at Abingdon, I was once told.

[RTH]

Not so, according to an interview with the producer - they got zero help from BMC who even made the filmmakers buy all the cars from the factory at trade price - they also had to source a great many more used ones themselves . The Pakistan limo was even borrowed from the garage servicing it, for the film without the owners knowing about it . Much of the car supply was done on a shoestring. ..........And the film made a loss at the box office and was a financial failure in the USA - that is so hard to believe when now its in most peoples top 10 favourites - but true.

[VAR1016]

Yes, I have heard that the Aston Martin was replaced by a Lancia Flaminia Touring in that distressing destruction scene.

As for the circuit, I recognised it as Crystal Palace immediately I saw the film; I went to nearly every meeting there (I think) from 1961 - 1972, including some of the motor-cycle (I HATE "moto") races - I was fortunate to live for most of the period in Church road, less than a mile away. And for a number of years, the Alvis Owner Club held its National Alvis Days there, and I went to those too.

Finally, I was in Turin for the Fulvia 40th Anniversary celebrations a couple of weeks ago, and looking at the traffic lights and traffic there, I think that those boys were on to something....

PdeRL

[jph]

Another motor racing connection with the original Italian Job film. IIRC, the coach which ends up hanging over a precipice later saw service as Tony Dean's race car transporter. Wonder if its connection with a fictional crime gave its new owner some ideas?

[catfigs]

Originally posted by petefenelon


Ever seen the claims for how many General Lees there were in The Dukes of Hazzard? - makes The Blues Brothers look parsimonious, IIRC!

the internet movie database says there were 229 general lees, or 1969 dodge chargers. apparently sometimes they used 1968 chargers, other times 1970 chargers. i used to love that car. that and the 1966 batmobile. since those days i've possibly gone off the batmobile slightly but for some reason the general lee really makes me want to say ya hoo yee ha and climb in and out through the windows instead of opening the doors. and getting up the nose of tubby southern boss hogg type figures with bull horns on their car bonnets...but anyway...

[Vitesse2]

There's an article about The Italian Job in the current issue of Classic Car Weekly. According to that, the substitute Aston was an Alfa, not a Lancia.

Something I didn't know was that the sewer sequences were actually filmed near Coventry. And while practicing one of the stunt drivers actually managed to take a Mini through a full 360 degree roll around the pipe. They didn't have a camera on it .... and wrecked three cars trying to do it again before giving up.

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
There's an article about The Italian Job in the current issue of Classic Car Weekly. According to that, the substitute Aston was an Alfa, not a Lancia.

Something I didn't know was that the sewer sequences were actually filmed near Coventry. And while practicing one of the stunt drivers actually managed to take a Mini through a full 360 degree roll around the pipe. They didn't have a camera on it .... and wrecked three cars trying to do it again before giving up.

That would make sense a 2600 bears a striking similarity to the DB4 soft top.

I did buy the original IJ on DVD from Costco last week, having thoroughly enjoyed the new one (as an ex-pat Brit I was concerned that the remake would be poor and instead thought it was great). There are some good "making of" extras including a bunch of stuff on Remy J's stunt drivers.

I did the frame by frame thang for both the Muira (I'd agree with 2F-001 it is a rolling shell, no drivetrain) and the Aston, looked to me that they did rest the digger on the Aston (not as hard as they did the e-types though but still pretty hard) and then the car that went over could have been an Aston or Lancia or Alfa 2600 - by the time the bonnet flew open the shot is too loing distance to see whether it was a Marek straight six or something else.

Ah well. And yes Charlize or whatever her name is was real nice eye-candy.

[Evo One]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
There's an article about The Italian Job in the current issue of Classic Car Weekly. According to that, the substitute Aston was an Alfa, not a Lancia.

Ah! That's all right then

PdeRL

[soubriquet]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
There's an article about The Italian Job in the current issue of Classic Car Weekly. According to that, the substitute Aston was an Alfa, not a Lancia.

Something I didn't know was that the sewer sequences were actually filmed near Coventry. And while practicing one of the stunt drivers actually managed to take a Mini through a full 360 degree roll around the pipe. They didn't have a camera on it .... and wrecked three cars trying to do it again before giving up.

I was at school in Kenilworth at the time, and the playground rumour (very reliable source, ahem) was that it was filmed in sewer works being carried out between Coventry and Gaydon.

Throwing a Lancia off a cliff is a hangin' offence. An Alfa 2600? Who cares?

[WDH74]

Looking at the famous Aston Throwing Scene, it doesn't look like too much damage is done to either the Aston or the Jag roadster-it seems like the most damage done is to things like windscreen surrounds and soft top frames, both things that could be replaced fairly easily. When the silver car is finally tossed off the cliff, the front end just doesn't look "right"....it looks a little flat, like it's made of cardboard and duct tape. Plus, the paint doesn't seem quite so shiny all of the sudden. But I could also just need to clean my glasses....

Joe Fan-It's not much of a car movie if you are expecting to see wall to wall racing around. Charlie Croker's silver DB4 ragtop gets star billing for quite some time, as he's always rolling up in it. The Two Jags are on camera for a short while. The Mini Coopers take star billing, along with the three pursuing Alfa Romeo police cars. The traffic jam in Turin is great for car spotting however. Look beyond the zillions of Fiat 500s and there's some nice machinery parked there. Keep your eyes peeled for the grey Lancia Flaminia (sp? and I'm not so sure of model, but I do know it's a Lancia) with a gigantic dent in the door. I've never seen one in a film before.
-William
PS-does anyone else find it odd that the only two vehicles that don't get written off are a large, gutted motor coach and a minivan?

[Jonas]

And don't forget the Fiat Dinos driven by the Mob!
I've really started to like this car! Mostly, of course, because of its Ferrari Dino V6 engine. Although, if I'm not mistaken, the 2.4 litre cast-iron engine was in fact designed by Fiat. But I don't really know how much it differed from the Ferrari 2.0 litre version used in the earlier models.
Anyway, in my opinion the Fiat Dino is a very nice car and it's (to me..) surprisingly cheap these days as well..

[Gary C]

'Something I didn't know was that the sewer sequences were actually filmed near Coventry. And while practicing one of the stunt drivers actually managed to take a Mini through a full 360 degree roll around the pipe. They didn't have a camera on it .... and wrecked three cars trying to do it again before giving up.'
Nope, that's not true. Get the DVD of the film and they interview the second unit director who shot that sequence and he says that the stunt drivers tried it three times but couldn't get the cars fast enough to do a full 360.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by WDH74
.....does anyone else find it odd that the only two vehicles that don't get written off are a large, gutted motor coach and a minivan?

Not really...

They needed to get their gear back to England, didn't they?

[WDH74]

Yeah, that makes perfect sense, Mr. Bell!
-Wm.