59 replies to this topic

[Chris Skepis]

Hi folks
Does anyone know why and when the non championship f1 races stopped to take place?
In the sixties and early seventies they were on all the time around Europe and sudenly there were no more of then.

[EvilPhil]

Concorde agreement surely?

[Rob G]

I believe the last one was the Race of Champions in 1983.

[Chris Skepis]

was it at Brands Hatch ?

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Chris Skepis
was it at Brands Hatch ?

Yeah, and proved the adage that you only need 2 cars to make a good race - Rosberg in a Williams with a blistered tyre J-U-S-T holding off Danny Sullivan in the Tyrrell.

But I would argue that the last non-title F1 races were those Bologna Park Italian Motor Show thingies that were barely mentioned in Autosport...sort of like chases with cars starting on opposite sides of a car park...they were done until about 1989?

[2F-001]

Originally posted by ensign14
...sort of like chases with cars starting on opposite sides of a car park...they were done until about 1989? [/B]

Like the events which, in track cycling, are called ''Pursuits'' - but in practice, only does a rather 'one-sided' match result in a rider being caught.

[Chris Skepis]

Are the non championship f1 races officialy banned today or is it just the case that f1 teams don´t bother with them anymore ?
is there any place i can find a complete list of the non champ races from 60´s and 70´s with circuits, entrants, results etc ?

[esorniloc]

Could the Minardi 2-seater races of the past couple of years be classed as a non-championship F1 races??

I mean they are F1 cars doing races thats not apart of the F1 championship!

[ensign14]

Originally posted by esorniloc
I mean they are F1 cars doing races thats not apart of the F1 championship!

Don't think they conform to the F1 regs...more to the point, are they actually races? I thought they were arranged.

[Doug Nye]

The first six places in all significant non-Championship premier-Formula races since 1946 are set down in the 'Autocourse' History of the Grand Prix car books by yr fthfl srvnt...

DCN

[JaviM]

Here are some pages with the results what you are looking for....


http://members.fortu...loud/index1.htm (the main source right now,but some races have not all the info)

http://209.123.255.9...vier/indexe.htm (under construction,not finished yet)

http://user.tninet.s...1w/F2_Index.htm (mainly a F2 site,but it has few years about NonF1 races)

[Chris Skepis]

Thank you JaviM and Doug.
I wish I could have all those Autocourses books you mentioned Doug.
I have several Automobile Year from the 60s and all from the 70´s but they never mention
any non championship F1 races.

[Rob G]

Originally posted by Chris Skepis
I wish I could have all those Autocourses books you mentioned Doug.

Actually, there are only two of them, and I highly recommend them both. They aren't the annuals, but rather full histories of F1.

[gdecarli]

OK, I agree they are not F.1 GP, but here following there are results of Bologna Motor Show F.1 races. They were held from 1988 to 1996 (but 1994), after that there were only some exhibitions, but no more races.

1. TROFEO INDOOR FORMULA 1 - 1988
December 7th and 8th
From Autosprint 50/1988 (page 92)

Track lenght: 1360 m
Track map: see Autosprint 48/1988 (page 32); I will post as soon as possible on my website. It's not too different from 1989-1996 layout.

Practice (December 7th) :
1. Alex Caffi (BMS Dallara F1 88A) 57"13 - 85.699 km/h
2. Luis Perez Sala (Minardi M188) 57"17
3. Nicola Larini (Osella FA1/L) 59"68
4. Fabrizio Barbazza (EuroBrun Er188) 1'02"01
5. Gabriele Tarquini (First 188) 1'02"31
6. Pierluigi Martini (Minardi M188) without time (suspension damaged)

Warm-up (December 8th, morning)
1. Alex Caffi (BMS Dallara F1 88A) 58"48
2. Pierluigi Martini (Minardi M188) 59"21

Race Results (December 8th, morning)
1. Luis Perez Sala (Minardi M188)
2. Alex Caffi (BMS Dallara F1 88A)
3. Pierluigi Martini (Minardi M188)
4. Nicola Larini (Osella FA1/L)
(Caffi had an accident in final)

CAFF _

	  __ CAFF _

LARI _/		 

				 _ CAFF _

MART _		   /		

	  __ MART _/		  

TARQ _/					 

							 _ SALA

SALA _					   /

	  __ SALA _			/

BARB _/		 		  /

				 _ SALA _/

				 /

		  LARI _/

TROFEO INDOOR FORMULA 1 - 1989
December 2th and 3th
From Autosprint 48/1989 (page 104) and 49/1989 (page 106)

Track lenght: 1299 m
Track map: click here

Practice:
1. Andrea De Cesaris (BMS Dallara 189) 52"15 - 86.773 km/h
2. Pierluigi Martini (Minardi M189) 52"30 - 86.401 km/h
3. Luis Perez Sala (Minardi M189) 52"72 - 85.835 km/h
4. Enrico Bertaggia (Osella FA1/M89) 53"63 - 84.378 km/h
5. Claudio Langes (EuroBrun Er189)54"03 - 83.752 km/h
6. Andrea Chiesa (Osella FA1/M89)54"14 - 79.195 km/h
7. Pierre Henri Raphanel (Coloni C3) without time (spun and suspension damaged)

Results:
1. Luis Perez Sala (Minardi M189)
2. Pierluigi Martini (Minardi M189)
3. Andrea De Cesaris (BMS Dallara 189)
4. Enrico Bertaggia (Osella FA1/M89)

DECE _

				

				 _ SALA _

SALA _		   /		

	  __ SALA _/		  

RAPH _/					 

							 _ SALA

BERT _					   /

	  _  BERT _			/

LANG _/		 		  /

				 _ MART _/

MART _		   /

	  __ MART _/

CHIE _/

Parade:
- Nigel Mansell (Ferrari F1/89)

TROFEO INDOOR FORMULA 1 - 1990
December 8th and 9th
From Autosprint 49/1990 (page 82) and 50/1990 (page 69)

Track lenght: 1300 m
Track map: click here

Entry list
Gianni Morbidelli (Minardi M190) 2
Olivier Grouillard (Osella Fa1 Me9) 1
Pedro Chaves (Coloni)
J.J. Lehto (BMS Dallara 190) (retired, gear)
Mimmo Schiattarella (EuroBrun ?)
Entries not present at Bologna:
Andrea Montermini (Eurobrun Er189)
Paolo Coloni (Coloni)

Results:
1. Gianni Morbidelli (Minardi M190) 2
2. Olivier Grouillard (Osella Fa1 Me9) 1
3. Pedro Chaves (Coloni)
4. J.J. Lehto (BMS Dallara 190) (retired, gear)
Mimmo Schiattarella (retired, suspension)
(there were more round, but I have no results)

MORB _

	  __ MORB _

SCHI _/		 

				 _ MORB 2 _

				 /		  

		  LEHT _/			

							  _ MORB

		  CHAV _			  /

							/

				 _ GROU 1 _/

LETH _		   /

	  __ GROU _/

GROU _/

Parade:
- Jean Alesi (Ferrari)

TROFEO INDOOR FORMULA 1 - 1991
December 7th and 8th
From Autosprint 49/1991 (page 94) and 50/1991 (page 69)

Track lenght: 1300 m
Track map: click here

Entry list
Gabriele Tarquini (Fondmetal Fa1 Me)
Johnny Herbert (Lotus 102-Judd)
J.J. Lehto (BMS Dallara 191-Judd)
Antonio Tamburini (Coloni-Andrea Moda Formula C4)
Marco Apicella (Minardi M190-Ford)
Gianni Morbidelli (Minardi M191-Ferrari)

Practice:
1. Morbidelli 48"31 - more than 98 km/h
2. Tarquini

Results:
1. Gabriele Tarquini (Fondmetal Fa1 Me)
2. Johnny Herbert (Lotus 102-Judd)
3. J.J. Lehto (BMS Dallara 191-Judd) and
Antonio Tamburini (Coloni-Andrea Moda Formula C4)
(Morbidelli crashed)

HERB _

	  __ TARQ _

TARQ _/		 

				 _ TARQ _

LEHT _		   /		

	  __ LEHT _/		  

APIC _/					 

							 _ TARQUINI

MORB _					   /

	  __ TAMB _			/

TAMB _/		 		  /

				 _ HERB _/

				 /

		  HERB _/

Parade: Ivan Capelli (Ferrari 643)
TROFEO INDOOR FORMULA 1 - 1992
December 7th and 8th
From Autosprint 49/1992 (page 92) and 51/1992 (page 82)

Track lenght: 1300 m
Track map: click here

Entry list
Johnny Herbert (Lotus 107-Judd)
J.J. Lehto (BMS Dallara 192-Ferrari)
Michele Alboreto (BMS Dallara 192-Ferrari)
Christian Fittipaldi (Minardi M192-Lamborghini)
Alex Zanardi (Minardi M192-Lamborghini)
Entry not present at Bologna:
Emanuele Naspetti (March 911B-Ilmor)

Practice:
1. Fittipaldi

Results:
1. Johnny Herbert (Lotus 107-Judd)
2. J.J. Lehto (BMS Dallara 192-Ferrari)
3. Christian Fittipaldi (Minardi M192-Lamborghini)
4. Alex Zanardi (Minardi M192-Lamborghini)
(Lehto broke his gear in second final round. Alboreto spun. Dry practice, wet race)

FITT _

				

				 _ LEHT _

LEHT _		   /		

	  __ LEHT _/		  

ZANA _/					 

							 _ HERBERT

HERB _					   /

	  __ HERB _			/

ALBO _/		 		  /

				 _ HERB _/

				 /

		  ZANA _/

TROFEO INDOOR FORMULA 1 - 1993
December 4th and 5th
From Autosprint 48/1993 (page 90) and 49/1993 (page 70)

Track lenght: 1300 m
Track map: click here

Preliminary rounds:
1. Rubens Barrichello (Jordan 193-Hart) 12 points
2. Pierluigi Martini (Minardi M193-Ford) 10
3. Vittorio Zoboli (Jordan 193-Hart) 8
4. Michele Alboreto (BMS Lola T93-Ferrari) 2
5. Fabrizio Barbazza (BMS Lola T93-Ferrari) 2

Final Results:
1. Barrichello
2. Martini
3. Zoboli
4. Alboreto
5. Barbazza

BARR 2 _

		_ BARR 2 _

ZOBO 0 _/		  

					_ BARRICHELLO

ALBO 0 _			/

		_ MART 1 _/

MART 2 _/

3rd position final: 3rd Zoboli 2; 4th Alboreto 0

Parade:
- Jean Alesi (Ferrari F1/93), he broke rear gear
- Gerhard Berger (Ferrari F1/93), canceled due to gear failure done by Alesi

1994: no F.1 race

CSAI ITALIAN NATIONAL CHALLENGE FORMULA 1 - 1995
December 7th and 8th
From Autosprint 49/1995 (page 48) and 50/1995 (page 66)

Track lenght: 1300 m
Track map: click here

Preliminary rounds:
1. Giancarlo Fisichella (Minardi M195) 10
2. Luca Badoer (Minardi M195) 8
3. Pierluigi Martini (Minardi M195) 5
4. Andrea Montermini (Forti Fg01) 4
5. Giovanni Lavaggi (Forti Fg01) 3
6. Vittorio Zoboli (Forti Fg01) 0

Final Results:
1. Badoer
2. Fisichella
3. Martini
4. Montermini

BADO 2 _

		_ BADO 2 _

MONT 0 _/		  

					_ BADOER

MART 1 _			/

		_ FISI 0 _/

FISI 2 _/

(3rd position final: 3rd Martini 2; 4th Montermini 1)

Parade:
- Jean Alesi (Ferrari F1/93), he broke rear gear
- Gerhard Berger (Ferrari F1/93), canceled due to gear failure done by Alesi

INDOOR FORMULA SUPER CHALLENGE CSAI - 1996
December 7th and 8th
From Autosprint 49/1996 (page 84) and 50/1996 (page 80)

Track lenght: 1300 m
Track map: click here

Preliminary rounds:
1. Jarno Trulli (Benetton-Renault B196) 18
2. Giancarlo Fisichella (Benetton-Renault B196) 14
3. Giovanni Lavaggi (Minardi-Ford 195B) 10
4. Shinji Nakano (Ligier-Mugen Js43) 8 (crash)
5. Tarso Marques (Minardi-Ford 195B) 6
6. Olivier Panis (Ligier-Mugen Js43) 2

Final Results:
1. Fisichella
2. Lavaggi
3. Marques and Trulli

FISI 2 _

		_ FISI 2 _

MARQ 0 _/		  

					_ FISICHELLA

TRUL 0 _			/

		_ LAVA 0 _/

LAVA 2 _/

Tarso Marques: spun
Jarno Trulli: crash

Parade:
Eddie Irvine (Ferrari), canceled due to technical problems

[Marcel Visbeen]

Great stuff, those Bologna results, Guido!
It's completely new to me that these races even existed!

In reply to Chris' question I find two books very usefull:
Les Grand Prix de Formule 1 hors championnat du monde (1946 - 1983) by Christian Naviaux
and
The formula one record book by John Thompson with results from all F1 races under the 1500cc-regulations from 1961 to 1965.

both books have complete results including starting numbers and are fairly accurate I believe.

[quintin cloud]

Originally posted by esorniloc
Could the Minardi 2-seater races of the past couple of years be classed as a non-championship F1 races??

I mean they are F1 cars doing races thats not apart of the F1 championship!

I list the first two seater race just for info, but the 2nd and 3rd races are more PR marketing tool.

Originally posted by gdecarli
OK, I agree they are not F.1 GP, but here following there are results of Bologna Motor Show F.1 races. They were held from 1988 to 1996 (but 1994), after that there were only some exhibitions, but no more races.

1. TROFEO INDOOR FORMULA 1 - 1988
December 7th and 8th
From Autosprint 50/1988 (page 92)

Track lenght: 1360 m
Track map: see Autosprint 48/1988 (page 32); I will post as soon as possible on my website. It's not too different from 1989-1996 layout.

Practice (December 7th) :
1. Alex Caffi (BMS Dallara F1 88A) 57"13 - 85.699 km/h
2. Luis Perez Sala (Minardi M188) 57"17
3. Nicola Larini (Osella FA1/L) 59"68
4. Fabrizio Barbazza (EuroBrun Er188) 1'02"01
5. Gabriele Tarquini (First 188) 1'02"31
6. Pierluigi Martini (Minardi M188) without time (suspension damaged)

Warm-up (December 8th, morning)
1. Alex Caffi (BMS Dallara F1 88A) 58"48
2. Pierluigi Martini (Minardi M188) 59"21

Race Results (December 8th, morning)
1. Luis Perez Sala (Minardi M188)
2. Alex Caffi (BMS Dallara F1 88A)
3. Pierluigi Martini (Minardi M188)
4. Nicola Larini (Osella FA1/L)
(Caffi had an accident in final)

CAFF _

	  __ CAFF _

LARI _/		 

				 _ CAFF _

MART _		   /		

	  __ MART _/		  

TARQ _/					 

							 _ SALA

SALA _					   /

	  __ SALA _			/

BARB _/		 		  /

				 _ SALA _/

				 /

		  LARI _/

TROFEO INDOOR FORMULA 1 - 1989
December 2th and 3th
From Autosprint 48/1989 (page 104) and 49/1989 (page 106)

Track lenght: 1299 m
Track map: click here

Practice:
1. Andrea De Cesaris (BMS Dallara 189) 52"15 - 86.773 km/h
2. Pierluigi Martini (Minardi M189) 52"30 - 86.401 km/h
3. Luis Perez Sala (Minardi M189) 52"72 - 85.835 km/h
4. Enrico Bertaggia (Osella FA1/M89) 53"63 - 84.378 km/h
5. Claudio Langes (EuroBrun Er189)54"03 - 83.752 km/h
6. Andrea Chiesa (Osella FA1/M89)54"14 - 79.195 km/h
7. Pierre Henri Raphanel (Coloni C3) without time (spun and suspension damaged)

Results:
1. Luis Perez Sala (Minardi M189)
2. Pierluigi Martini (Minardi M189)
3. Andrea De Cesaris (BMS Dallara 189)
4. Enrico Bertaggia (Osella FA1/M89)

DECE _

				

				 _ SALA _

SALA _		   /		

	  __ SALA _/		  

RAPH _/					 

							 _ SALA

BERT _					   /

	  _  BERT _			/

LANG _/		 		  /

				 _ MART _/

MART _		   /

	  __ MART _/

CHIE _/

Parade:
- Nigel Mansell (Ferrari F1/89)

TROFEO INDOOR FORMULA 1 - 1990
December 8th and 9th
From Autosprint 49/1990 (page 82) and 50/1990 (page 69)

Track lenght: 1300 m
Track map: click here

Entry list
Gianni Morbidelli (Minardi M190) 2
Olivier Grouillard (Osella Fa1 Me9) 1
Pedro Chaves (Coloni)
J.J. Lehto (BMS Dallara 190) (retired, gear)
Mimmo Schiattarella (EuroBrun ?)
Entries not present at Bologna:
Andrea Montermini (Eurobrun Er189)
Paolo Coloni (Coloni)

Results:
1. Gianni Morbidelli (Minardi M190) 2
2. Olivier Grouillard (Osella Fa1 Me9) 1
3. Pedro Chaves (Coloni)
4. J.J. Lehto (BMS Dallara 190) (retired, gear)
Mimmo Schiattarella (retired, suspension)
(there were more round, but I have no results)

MORB _

	  __ MORB _

SCHI _/		 

				 _ MORB 2 _

				 /		  

		  LEHT _/			

							  _ MORB

		  CHAV _			  /

							/

				 _ GROU 1 _/

LETH _		   /

	  __ GROU _/

GROU _/

Parade:
- Jean Alesi (Ferrari)

TROFEO INDOOR FORMULA 1 - 1991
December 7th and 8th
From Autosprint 49/1991 (page 94) and 50/1991 (page 69)

Track lenght: 1300 m
Track map: click here

Entry list
Gabriele Tarquini (Fondmetal Fa1 Me)
Johnny Herbert (Lotus 102-Judd)
J.J. Lehto (BMS Dallara 191-Judd)
Antonio Tamburini (Coloni-Andrea Moda Formula C4)
Marco Apicella (Minardi M190-Ford)
Gianni Morbidelli (Minardi M191-Ferrari)

Practice:
1. Morbidelli 48"31 - more than 98 km/h
2. Tarquini

Results:
1. Gabriele Tarquini (Fondmetal Fa1 Me)
2. Johnny Herbert (Lotus 102-Judd)
3. J.J. Lehto (BMS Dallara 191-Judd) and
Antonio Tamburini (Coloni-Andrea Moda Formula C4)
(Morbidelli crashed)

HERB _

	  __ TARQ _

TARQ _/		 

				 _ TARQ _

LEHT _		   /		

	  __ LEHT _/		  

APIC _/					 

							 _ TARQUINI

MORB _					   /

	  __ TAMB _			/

TAMB _/		 		  /

				 _ HERB _/

				 /

		  HERB _/

Parade: Ivan Capelli (Ferrari 643)
TROFEO INDOOR FORMULA 1 - 1992
December 7th and 8th
From Autosprint 49/1992 (page 92) and 51/1992 (page 82)

Track lenght: 1300 m
Track map: click here

Entry list
Johnny Herbert (Lotus 107-Judd)
J.J. Lehto (BMS Dallara 192-Ferrari)
Michele Alboreto (BMS Dallara 192-Ferrari)
Christian Fittipaldi (Minardi M192-Lamborghini)
Alex Zanardi (Minardi M192-Lamborghini)
Entry not present at Bologna:
Emanuele Naspetti (March 911B-Ilmor)

Practice:
1. Fittipaldi

Results:
1. Johnny Herbert (Lotus 107-Judd)
2. J.J. Lehto (BMS Dallara 192-Ferrari)
3. Christian Fittipaldi (Minardi M192-Lamborghini)
4. Alex Zanardi (Minardi M192-Lamborghini)
(Lehto broke his gear in second final round. Alboreto spun. Dry practice, wet race)

FITT _

				

				 _ LEHT _

LEHT _		   /		

	  __ LEHT _/		  

ZANA _/					 

							 _ HERBERT

HERB _					   /

	  __ HERB _			/

ALBO _/		 		  /

				 _ HERB _/

				 /

		  ZANA _/

TROFEO INDOOR FORMULA 1 - 1993
December 4th and 5th
From Autosprint 48/1993 (page 90) and 49/1993 (page 70)

Track lenght: 1300 m
Track map: click here

Preliminary rounds:
1. Rubens Barrichello (Jordan 193-Hart) 12 points
2. Pierluigi Martini (Minardi M193-Ford) 10
3. Vittorio Zoboli (Jordan 193-Hart) 8
4. Michele Alboreto (BMS Lola T93-Ferrari) 2
5. Fabrizio Barbazza (BMS Lola T93-Ferrari) 2

Final Results:
1. Barrichello
2. Martini
3. Zoboli
4. Alboreto
5. Barbazza

BARR 2 _

		_ BARR 2 _

ZOBO 0 _/		  

					_ BARRICHELLO

ALBO 0 _			/

		_ MART 1 _/

MART 2 _/

3rd position final: 3rd Zoboli 2; 4th Alboreto 0

Parade:
- Jean Alesi (Ferrari F1/93), he broke rear gear
- Gerhard Berger (Ferrari F1/93), canceled due to gear failure done by Alesi

1994: no F.1 race

CSAI ITALIAN NATIONAL CHALLENGE FORMULA 1 - 1995
December 7th and 8th
From Autosprint 49/1995 (page 48) and 50/1995 (page 66)

Track lenght: 1300 m
Track map: click here

Preliminary rounds:
1. Giancarlo Fisichella (Minardi M195) 10
2. Luca Badoer (Minardi M195) 8
3. Pierluigi Martini (Minardi M195) 5
4. Andrea Montermini (Forti Fg01) 4
5. Giovanni Lavaggi (Forti Fg01) 3
6. Vittorio Zoboli (Forti Fg01) 0

Final Results:
1. Badoer
2. Fisichella
3. Martini
4. Montermini

BADO 2 _

		_ BADO 2 _

MONT 0 _/		  

					_ BADOER

MART 1 _			/

		_ FISI 0 _/

FISI 2 _/

(3rd position final: 3rd Martini 2; 4th Montermini 1)

Parade:
- Jean Alesi (Ferrari F1/93), he broke rear gear
- Gerhard Berger (Ferrari F1/93), canceled due to gear failure done by Alesi

INDOOR FORMULA SUPER CHALLENGE CSAI - 1996
December 7th and 8th
From Autosprint 49/1996 (page 84) and 50/1996 (page 80)

Track lenght: 1300 m
Track map: click here

Preliminary rounds:
1. Jarno Trulli (Benetton-Renault B196) 18
2. Giancarlo Fisichella (Benetton-Renault B196) 14
3. Giovanni Lavaggi (Minardi-Ford 195B) 10
4. Shinji Nakano (Ligier-Mugen Js43) 8 (crash)
5. Tarso Marques (Minardi-Ford 195B) 6
6. Olivier Panis (Ligier-Mugen Js43) 2

Final Results:
1. Fisichella
2. Lavaggi
3. Marques and Trulli

FISI 2 _

		_ FISI 2 _

MARQ 0 _/		  

					_ FISICHELLA

TRUL 0 _			/

		_ LAVA 0 _/

LAVA 2 _/

Tarso Marques: spun
Jarno Trulli: crash

Parade:
Eddie Irvine (Ferrari), canceled due to technical problems

Thanks for these results, man have I been looking them for a long time.

[gdecarli]

Originally posted by Marcel Visbeen
Great stuff, those Bologna results, Guido!
It's completely new to me that these races even existed!

I think that 1995 and 1996 editions are the last non world-championship F.1 races but valid for another official title, as they were official CSAI challenge.
CSAI is Commissione Sportiva Automobilistica Italiana, italian sporting "section" of FIA.

If you want I have some photos...

Originally posted by quintin cloud
Thanks for these results, man have I been looking them for a long time.

If you want to upload these results on your site, consider that I'm not sure about official name of each race, but 1988 and 1995 edition.

Ciao,
Guido

[ensign14]

Originally posted by gdecarli
If you want I have some photos...

It just gets better and better...

It is scandalous that these barely got touched in Autosport (or any of the mags). Dammit, how much other racing takes place in December?

And I can see some immediate trivia questions...

-when was Lotus' last F1 win?

-when did Giovanni Lavaggi win an F1 race?

[gdecarli]

Originally posted by ensign14
It is scandalous that these barely got touched in Autosport (or any of the mags). Dammit, how much other racing takes place in December?

Autosprint always has long reports about Bologna Motor Show and its race, as it is issued in Bologna San Lazzaro, only few km from Motor Show location.

Usually it's 10 days long (approx) and there are many races: usually on first week there are track races, then they change the track and there are rally races. The most important one is surely Memorial Bettega (first raced in 1985), a formula Rally race that in past years had very important drivers: Timo Salonen, Marku Alen, Miki Biasion, Colin McRae, Juha Kankkunen, Carlos Sainz, Richard Burns, Didier Auriol, just to say world championship drivers who won or were second!

On official website (this is link to English index, but website is also in Italian, French and German) you can still see 2002 program and Hall of Fame (direct link), so you can have an idea of what races there are at Motor Show.

Ciao,
Guido

[quintin cloud]

Originally posted by gdecarli
I think that 1995 and 1996 editions are the last non world-championship F.1 races but valid for another official title, as they were official CSAI challenge.
CSAI is Commissione Sportiva Automobilistica Italiana, italian sporting "section" of FIA.

If you want I have some photos...

If you want to upload these results on your site, consider that I'm not sure about official name of each race, but 1988 and 1995 edition.

Ciao,
Guido

Please can you post the pictures if you can

[quintin cloud]

Question about the event was the race done over one lap of the track head to head or a xx laps of the track head to head

[uechtel]

great to see the complete results!!!

Up to now my information was, that the last race had been in 1989. After that no mention of those events any more in "Motorsport Aktuell". Seems to have been less important to the readers than news about Schumacher´s dog...

[gdecarli]

Originally posted by quintin cloud
Question about the event was the race done over one lap of the track head to head or a xx laps of the track head to head

I don't know how to explain, as I'm quite sure I don't know correct technical words.
Each round was made by two manches; each one was two laps long. I don't know what you mean by "head to head": drivers started at opposite side of the track (for this reason on my map there are two chequered flags), of course driving in the same direction - It would be quite funny if they would drive in opposite direction

After two manches, if they had one win each usually they had a third manche, even if maybe sometimes (but I'm not sure) they could have counted best sum of time.

Up to 1992 they had regular practice (I think one by one, something similar to 2003 rules, but I'm not sure) and according to this result they decided table composition.
From 1993 there were preliminary phase: I think that each driver raced against all others, but I don't know if only one or two manches and I don't know point rules (I think 1 win = 1 point).

When they had no drivers to complete table composition, some driver went on even if he lost a round, i.e. like Herbert in 1991 (he lost first round with Tarquini, but he went on as he was the best loser).

Ciao,
Guido

(I'm sorry, I think that this is not my best post for an English exam! )

[quintin cloud]

gdecarli thanks for the info I was looking at your webpage, and it is good see that the old Kyalami track of 1988 to 1991 is shown. Man do I have some good memerys of that track configuration

[Rob29]

Think I saw an F1 race at Mugello,live on Eurosport last Sunday! 4 Ferraris gave a demo which looked more exciting than many F1 races I have seen.
To return to the original question,I belive FOCA decided not to support them any more around 1980. The BRDC had to run the International Trophy that year for the Aurora series which was on its last legs. They did not apply for an F2 date as it was Silverstones turn for the non-champ F1.

[gdecarli]

Originally posted by Rob29
Think I saw an F1 race at Mugello,live on Eurosport last Sunday! 4 Ferraris gave a demo which looked more exciting than many F1 races I have seen.
To return to the original question,I belive FOCA decided not to support them any more around 1980. The BRDC had to run the International Trophy that year for the Aurora series which was on its last legs. They did not apply for an F2 date as it was Silverstones turn for the non-champ F1.

Every year at Ferrari day there is a parade made with F.1, but of course it is not a real race. Ferrari had also some exhibition at Bologna Motor Show; I listed some of them, but there were some more. I think that some other team had such a exhibition, even if in this moment I don't recall anything but a Minardi 2-seaters exhibition at Goldenport Park (China) last December (click here for more details)

As already said by Rob G, the last non championship F.1 GP was Race of Champions , Brands Hatch, April 10th 1983.
The previous one? I have just learned from Quintin Cloud wesite about The British Open (Oulton Park, April 1st 1983); then I read on Autosprint there was a scheduled race at Donington after Las Vegas GP 1982, canceled because there were problems for having back cars from USA. There was South Africa 1981 and Spain 1980, but they were both supposed to be championship race and they were later canceled (IIRC about South Africa, I'm not sure), so they weren't real non championship race.
So I think the last non championship F.1 race (before Race of Champions 1983, of course) was GP Dino Ferrari at Imola, September 16th 1979. Is it true?

Of course I don't consider here F.Aurora races; the last one was in 1982; last race was at Brands Hatch on August 30th 1982. Complete calendars can be found i.e. on Quintin Cloud's website or racingcircuits.net.

Ciao,
Guido

[Rob29]

Above is basiclly correct. Few more points;
Title I have for the 1979 Imola race is 'Gran Premio Autosprint'
1980 Spanish GP drivers thought they were taking part in a championship race. Points were later cancelled.
1981 South African GP was downgraded to non-champ before the event,so is the penultimate non-champ race.
Aurora F1 champs ran 1978-80. nothing in 1981. In '82 was perhaps the worst supported series in the history of racing.4-5 cars took part in the 'British F1 Championship' !!
For 1983 the British Open allowed F1/F5000/F2/FAtlantic. After a motley collection of 12 cars appeared at the first round it was abandoned.

[Chris Skepis]

Great stuff lads
One more question. Was the Tourist Trophy only for Sports Car or formula cars as well ?

[JohnS]

There's an upcoming publication which sounds like it may interest you:

The Forgotten Races: The Non-championship Formula 1 Races 1966 to 1983

http://www.amazon.co...3201931-5447046

Not sure why they've chosen to start in 1966.

More comprehensive is the Edition-Palmieres volume:

Les Grands Prix de Formule 1 hors championnat du monde
1946-1983

http://www.editions-...tatistiques.htm

I have this one and it's fascinating looking at the results, although that's all it is, just stats, no stories behind the races or anything.

John

[gdecarli]

Originally posted by Rob29
Title I have for the 1979 Imola race is 'Gran Premio Autosprint'

No, I confirm its official name was 1° Gran Premio DINO FERRARI. I can see a copy of original poster on Autosprint 37/1979, page 63. Surely Autosprint has never organized such an important race!
I don't know why it should be so-called; the only link (not very significative!) is that Autosprint is issued some 30 km far from Imola, at San Lazzaro di Savena.

Ciao,
Guido

[gdecarli]

1. TROFEO INDOOR FORMULA 1 - 1988
December 7th and 8th
From Autosprint 50/1988 (page 92-95)

Entry List (click to enlarge picture) :

• 9 Garbriele Tarquini - First 188 Ford - Goodyear
  
• 21 Nicola Larini - Osella FA1L turbo - Goodyear
  
• 23 Pierluigi Martini - Minardi M188 Ford - Pirelli
  
• 24 Luis Perez Sala - Minardi M188 Ford - Pirelli
  
• 32 Fabrizio Barbazza - EuroBrun Er188 Ford - Goodyear
  
• 36 Alex Caffi - BMS Dallara F1 88A Ford - Pirelli
  

This competion is important for some reasons:

• last official race for a turbo F.1 (Osella); here without pop-off valve
• first race for Pirelli after its retirement at end of 1986. While Goodyear were old 1988 tyres, Pirelli tested new 1989 tyres and this was a big help for Minardi and Dallara
• only competition by First
• First F.1 race for Fabrizio Barbazza
• First F.1 win for Minardi and Luis Perez Sala

On next days - if you are interested - I can add photos about following races.

Ciao,
Guido

[Mischa Bijenhof]

Wow! This must be the only picture of the illborn FIRST-chassis! I have been wondering for years what it would look like. Looking at the picture, it seems that it's not as bulky as the Life car that would turn out to be a complete dog the next year. If you have more, Guido, please add!

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Chris Skepis
Great stuff lads
One more question. Was the Tourist Trophy only for Sports Car or formula cars as well ?

1905-7 Touring Cars
1908, 1914 & 1922 Formule Libre (for want of a better description!) In 1908, there was a maximum cylinder diameter of four inches. In 1914 cars were restricted to a maximum of 3310cc and 21.5 hundredweight and in 1922 the race was run to the 3 litre Grand Prix Formula which had ended in 1921!
1928-59 Sports Cars (1928-54 run as a handicap)
1960-63 GT Cars
1964-5 Sports & GT Cars
1966 Sports Cars
1967 Touring Cars
1968-9 Sports Cars
1970-88 Touring Cars
1994 Awarded to Paul Radisich as winner of the Touring Car World Cup at Donington

[roger_valentine]

Thank you gdcarli. I have long supported the view that the Bologna sprints should be considered as non-championship F1, not least because they include the only race appearance of the First. (Was it really Ford powered? Thought it was Judd?)

For anyone who wants to bring their knowledge of the Bologna sprints up to date, the post 1996 races (for F3000) are chronicled on http://uk.geocities....ip/nonchamp.htm

The difference between the Bologna races and the Brands Hatch RoC is merely one of degree. The Bologna races were not of GP distance - neither was the RoC. The Bologna races didn't have a full complement of GP cars - neither did the RoC.

The difference between a 1990s GP and the Bologna races seems no greater than that between a 1950s GP and a Goodwood 5-lapper.

What illogical double standards some TNFs have. We sneer at the Reader's Comments mentality of regarding F1 as being the WC and nothing else; we bemoan the passing of the days when F1 cars could be seen racing at local club events, but when non-championship F1 races do take place, most of us ignore them!

[Racer.Demon]

Guido, fantastic too see the FIRST in action!

So it did "race"! Should we delete it from this list?;)

Indeed, it looks a lot more nimble than I thought it was. Almost like an F3000 in fact...

[gdecarli]

Originally posted by Racer.Demon
So it did "race"! Should we delete it from this list?;)

I have to check it better.
I'm sure that on Autosprint it was described as First 188, so accordingly your list is right, as you speak about First 189. I will give a look of all Autosprint of that (short) period in order to understand better First history.
As regards engine, I have to check better; probabily I wrote Ford due to a mistake, but it should be a Judd.

Ciao,
Guido

[uechtel]

Originally posted by gdecarli
1. TROFEO INDOOR FORMULA 1 - 1988
December 7th and 8th
From Autosprint 50/1988 (page 92-95)

Entry List (click to enlarge picture) :

Simply wonderful!

Please, give me more!!!



And about the "Life" I have to disagree. To me it always looked quite nimble compared to "proper" Formula 1 cars of the opposition. Really much more F 3000, but of course not so fast...

[Chris Skepis]

Guido,
you must be an Autosprint fanatic. I used to collect it too. I still have some issues from 1969/1970
when it was twice the size as it is now. In fact I think Autosprint sometimes was more acurate than
the British Auto Sport. I´ve got one issue that shows a picture of Chris Amon driving his famous Maserati 250-F back in NZ, wich I never saw anywhere else. Not even on the Net.
Do you know if there is there an official Autosprit site?

[gdecarli]

Originally posted by Chris Skepis
you must be an Autosprint fanatic.

I think it was a very good magazine. Now I don't like so much, but I still buy it as it has no better competitor among Italian sporting magazines. I always speak about it because it's my source, as Autosport or GPI for many people here!

Autosprint has no website. They seem to be Italian partner (or sponsor or something else) of Forix, as you can see by clicking on this Italian link.

Ciao,
Guido

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by uechtel

And about the "Life" I have to disagree. To me it always looked quite nimble compared to "proper" Formula 1 cars of the opposition. Really much more F 3000, but of course not so fast...

The sorry tale of the FIRST/Life chassis and its gutless engine is told on http://f1rejects.cro...fe/profile.html

Divila thought the chassis - which he designed but which was built outside his specs by a third party - was lethal.

My favourite pic of the car appeared in Autosport - that well known Irish racing driver Jack O'Malley was strapped into the thing in the pit lane about to go out for a prequalifying (half?) lap. The car was on quallies. You could tell they were quallies. They had the scrutineers' chalk marks on them - from about five different meetings. Then again when Gary Brabham drove for them they didn't even have a tyre pressure gauge....

Truly a strange way to run an F1 team...

[ensign14]

Originally posted by petefenelon
My favourite pic of the car appeared in Autosport - that well known Irish racing driver Jack O'Malley was strapped into the thing in the pit lane about to go out for a prequalifying (half?) lap. The car was on quallies. You could tell they were quallies. They had the scrutineers' chalk marks on them - from about five different meetings.

Similar pic on F1 Rejects here.

Great pics of the FIRST, never saw it in that form before. Note that Tarquini's head seems to be well above a notional line between front and rear roll bars...

[D-Type]

Thank you Guido

I had never heard of the Bologna Indoor races before.

What really pleases me is to see Minardi winning something
To my way of thinking they have to be the greatest bunch of enthusiasts. Ahead of Hesketh, AGS, and Connew (sorry Barry, but Minardi have lasted longer).

[Geoff E]

Originally posted by D-Type
Thank you Guido

I had never heard of the Bologna Indoor races before.

One race (1992?) it says "dry practice - wet race" - how "indoor" was it?

[gdecarli]

1. TROFEO INDOOR FORMULA 1 - 1988
December 7th and 8th
From Autosprint 48/1988 (page 37)

I have already wrote nearly al what I know about this first edition. I only add entry list published two weeks before the race:

• Pierluigi Martini - Minardi Mn188 Ford
• Alex Caffi - BMS Dallara 188 Ford
• ? - Coloni Fc188 Ford
• Nicola Larini - Osella FA1L Ford (? I think this is a mistake. Or they want to use 1989 Ford engine on 1988 chassis? I don't think so!)
• Stefano Modena - Eurobrun Er188 Ford
• Alessandro Nannini - Benetton B188 Ford
• Gabriele Tarquini - First Judd (and not Ford as I wrote, of course!), but Autosprint wrote that quite surely he won't race

As you can see comparing this entry list with race result, it's quite different.

TROFEO INDOOR FORMULA 1 - 1989
December 2th and 3th
From Autosprint 49/1989 (page 2 and 104-107)

I haven't phots about all drivers, I have only following (as usual, click to enlarge) :

• Aerial view of the track. I think that this photo was taken when circuit was still under preparation (it's a temporary circuit), because its layout is different from one shown on my map; however this photo can give you an idea. Geoff E, as you can see it wasn't an indoor circuit, so it's not strange it had also rainy days. I wonder why they call it "Indoor Formula 1"... Maybe they have not studied English
  
• 18 - Andrea Chiesa - Osella Fa1/M89 Ford
  
• 22 - Andrea De Cesaris - BMS Dallara 189 Ford
  
• 23? - Pierluigi Martini - Minardi M189 Ford (second: that's why he lost final agaist Sala)
  
• 24 - Luis Perez Sala - Minardi M189 Ford (winner)
  

This was entry list one week beforethe race:

• Piercarlo Ghinzani - Osella Fa1/M89 Ford
• ? - Osella Fa1/M89 Ford
• Pierluigi Martini - Minardi M189 Ford
• Luis Perez Sala - Minardi M189 Ford
• Pierre Henri Raphanel? - Coloni C3 Ford
• Andrea De Cesaris - BMS Dallara 189 Ford
• Oscar Larrauri or Fabrizio Barbazza - EuroBrun Er189 Judd

As you can see, there is some little difference between this list and real entry list. Ghinzani as replaced because he was still suffering for his accident at Adelaide.

Ciao,
Guido

[quintin cloud]

Well I have now included the 1988, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 95 and 1996 TROFEO INDOOR FORMULA 1 results in my web page thanks mainly to gdecarli this be found in the non-championship section.

[ReWind]

Originally posted by gdecarli
I think it was a very good magazine.

Guido - From your collection of AUTOSPRINT magazines can you lend a helping hand in this thread?

[gdecarli]

TROFEO INDOOR FORMULA 1 - 1990
December 8th and 9th
From Autosprint 50/1990 (page 66-69) and Autosprint 49/1991 (page 94)

Unfortunately only few photos (click to enlarge) :

• 14 - Olivier Grouillard - Osella Fa1 Me9 Ford (second)
  
• 24 - Gianni Morbidelli - Minardi M190 Ford (winner)
  

As you can see, it was a very rainy race!

TROFEO INDOOR FORMULA 1 - 1991
December 7th and 8th
From Autosprint 50/1991 (page 68-69)

Few photos again...

• Podium: 1. Tarquini - 2. Herbert - 3. Lehto
  
• 12 - Johnny Herbert - Lotus 102 Judd
  
• 22 - J.J. Lehto - BMS Dallara 191 Judd
  
• 23 - Marco Apicella - Minardi M190 Ford
  (this is not a mistake; Minardi had a new M191-Ferrari for Morbidelli and an old M190-Ford for Apicella)
  

Antonio Tamburini replaced Alex Caffi on Coloni Andrea Moda Formula just gew days before the race.

Ciao,
Guido

[uechtel]

[canon1753]

These Indoor F1 races look interesting. I suspect it would be reasonably good TV, especially during the off-season. Call it the "World Formula One Pursuit Championship." It would be a way for F1 (or CART/IRL/F2 or F3000) to put on a show for an audience that is not used to racing or as a primer for racing in new markets. It would be good to have a star or two there, but it also would be good to put other drivers in there too.

Just a dream on a damp Sunday night at the end of the F1 season.....

(Maybe the only way I get a F1 drive too!)

[gdecarli]

Yes, it could be a great occasion for small team to show their sponsorship and maybe also for testing new drivers. OK, now they have winter test for them, but this is a race, even if so different from a "normal" GP.
It's a great occasion also for spectators: I don't know how much a Motor Show ticket costs, but surely much less than - i.e. - at Imola, that is only some 30 km far (so maybe spectators are the same people). At Imola you can see a single corner of a "normal" GP, at Motor Show you can fully see all what happen in a race!
(Of course I don't mean to move all "normal" GP on such a short tracks )

Ciao,
Guido