24 replies to this topic

[Leif Snellman]

Looking at pre war pictures I find it extremly hard to identify the tyres on the cars.
Apart from Continental used by Auto Union and Mercedes-Benz and Pirelli used by Alfa Romeo/Ferrari what tyre companies were involved in GP racing before WW2? Did Delahaye, Bugatti or Talbot have contract with any company? (Michelin?) Was Maserati using Pirelli like Alfa Romeo? When did Englebert appear in GP racing? Dunlop? What tyres did the privateers use? And the voiturette teams?

[WDH74]

I believe that Engelbert didn't get into racing tyres until after the war. Most pictures of British cars I've seen show Dunlops.....but I don;t have any books to hand to check up on this. American cars almost certainly used Firestone or Goodyear balloons by the late thirties. Barney Oldfield, naturally enough, used Oldfields. Without any actual research, that's all I can name at the moment.
-William

[dbw]

at least for the 1930 season,the factory bugattis used michelins...[4.75x19 DR]....

[Don Capps]

"Oldfields" were made by Firestone. By this period, only Firestone was seemed to be even interested in producing a tire that could be used for racing -- at least at Indianapolis. In 1929, both the Delage of Chiron and the Amilcar of Moriceau used Dunlop tires. An excellent question to which I admit to some degree of ignorance in trying to provide more information.

[Holger Merten]

I have a picture in my archive showing an Auto Union DKW from Dunlop where is written on Dunlop Rennservice Dunlop Raceservice, which means, there was a Dunlop Race Engament in Germany. But it could be that this raceservice was only engaged in motorbikes.?

[robert dick]

From contemporary photos :

Bugatti factory cars :
Dunlops between 1931 and 1939.

Maserati :
1930, -31 and -32 factory cars on Dunlops;
1933 Campari (8C3000) won the GP de l'ACF on Pirellis while Zehender (8CM "offset single seater") used Dunlops, Nuvolari (8CM) in Belgium on Engleberts;
1934 Nuvolari on Dunlops;
1935 Varzi 6C34 MM two-seater on Dunlops;
1938 and -39 factory cars (8CTF, 6CM and 4CL) on Pirellis.

Sports car races: factory Delahayes and Talbots on Dunlops.

Englebert had its first great success in 1907, with Minerva, in the 8-litre Kaiserpreis class of the Ardennes race, continued to be active during the twenties.
Michelin more or less cancelled its factory support after the outstanding 1927 season with Delage.

For more accuracy a race by race examination would be necessary.

[Holger Merten]

Originally posted by robert dick
From contemporary photos :

Bugatti factory cars :
Dunlops between 1931 and 1939.

What I read on the German Dunlop website was very interesting. Dunlop was realy successful with Bentley in Le Mans. They won Le Mans 5 times between 1924 and 1930. Not bad for both of them.

[VDP]

I ve read somewhere that Englebert equiped Alfa Romeo at Tripoli or Avus in 1935

Robert

[Holger Merten]

Originally posted by VDP
I ve read somewhere that Englebert equiped Alfa Romeo at Tripoli or Avus in 1935

Robert

Aahhhmm, would be interesting to proof, what you've read?;)

[dbw]

after the lyon disaster of 1924, ettore bugatti wrote"i think all tyres[sic] will give good results except those of dunlop."....and a bit later "having a choice of several types of tyres...i chose michelin...this is the tyre which i think has given the best results in so severe a test."[ these were the 710x90 high pressure used earlier on the brecias]...the quote referred to the gp cars with beaded edge tyres on the alloy wheels...as the factory cars changed to 19" drop-center ,with a rare exception,the michelins were used....as a large amount of the competition were successfully using dunlops, bugatti seems to have dropped michleins in favor of the "block" tread dunlops from the t-51's on....

[GIGLEUX]

From Englebert Magazine, Scuderia Ferrari used their tires in 1933.

[Holger Merten]

Jean-Maurice, that sounds interesting, for what races did they use Engelbert tyres, do you have any more information?

[GIGLEUX]

Holger, sorry for not answering you today as I'm not near my archives. Next week-end I'll have a lokk at my old Englebert Magazines and will give you more information. Be sure.

[aldo]

Scuderia Ferrari used Englebert in the 1936 season on their Alfa Romeo. They were a disaster in Tripoli and the Scuderia newsletter publishes the usual nasty and unfair attack by Ferrari against his tire suppliers, yet acknowledging that Englebert supplies tires free of charge.
Scuderia Ferrari also used Pirelli in the same season: Nuvolari won in Hungary, New York, and Milano on these tires. The Spa 24 hours was won on Engleberts, while the Mille Miglia was taken on Pirellis.

[Holger Merten]

Aldo, I have another question. There is a picture with Nuvolar sitting in an Auto Union (Berne 1938). Tazio wears an Overall with Pirelli Logo. Do you know if he had a contract with Pirelli? Especially while he is sitting in an Auto Union, where Continental had a monopol to suply this team.

[Leif Snellman]

It's more to this questions than I ever imaged. For example the Alfa Romeo bimotore shows up with Dunlops for Nuvolari's speed record attempt 16 June 1935 at Firenze-Lucca.

[Doug Nye]

Originally posted by Leif Snellman
Looking at pre war pictures I find it extremly hard to identify the tyres on the cars.
....

It's not really too difficult to identify them - with certain reservations since some early 1930s Contis rather resembled contemporary Pirelli treads...and then we have various 'slick' track and record tyre variations. But here's a kind of spotter's guide which might perhaps help identify the main players' rubber-wear?


1930-31 pattern Pirellis - very distinctive and quite unmistakable once logged in the memory banks.


This is the later approx. 1937-39 pattern Pirelli which survived the war to go onto the Alfettas and early Ferraris of 1950-51 etc as the 'Corsa' or 'Stelvio Corsa' tyre.


These are 1935-36 Engleberts - the Belgian covers' distinctive tread pattern subsequently being retained right through the war years to end up - fatally - on the 1957 works Ferraris.


Ditto 1937-39 Engleberts - as above.


These are the 1934-35 pattern early Continentals as used by the German teams.


From around 1937 through to 1939 this was the entirely distinctive pattern of the hard-pressed Continental rears - the pattern so sadly missing from the Auto Union 'C-Type' model which so irritated me ...

DCN

[Holger Merten]

Great work Doug, and wonderful pictures, I will use one for another question of an old, old thread.

[T54]

Another French company, Bergougnan, was also involved in providing tyres but mostly to smaller voiturette cars.

T54

P.S. Correct spelling is Englebert, not Engelbert...

[GIGLEUX]

Found that in my old French magazines about tyres used during 1936 and more particularly for the Monaco GP

[GIGLEUX]

Holger, at last I find it: from Englebert Magazine 1933, special issue: Les grandes épreuves automobiles en 1933. From the text, were using Englebert tyres that year:
-Scuderia Ferrari.
-Nuvolari Maserati.
-Etancelin Alfa-Romeo.
-Bussienne Bugatti.
-Bjornstad Alfa-Romeo.
-Widengren Alfa-Romeo.
-Ebb Mercedes-Benz.
and others, of course.

[T54]

From this wonderful re-touched document, there is little doubt about who ate the pasta, the sauerkraut or the patates...

T54

[Holger Merten]

Jean Maurice, thanks for posting this document.

In the last weeks I discovered some pictures showing the early AUs with other tyres than contis. And have a look in this Auto Union P Wagen thread. And the tyres. That's why I'm a little bit late with my reply. Sorry.

[Holger Merten]

Here an early picture of the Auto Union Typ A at the Fahrerlager at the Nürburgring. With continental tyres which didn't have the characteristic pattern in 1934.



Doug showed us already the different patterns in this thread.

[Bjorn Kjer]

Hi , has anyone been working out an overview of who used what and when ? If not , I will try. !

Does any of you have the logos of supplyers in those days ?

If its possible to show pictures of vehicles of supplyers I would be greatly interested . Either here or on the
Supply and sponsorvehicles thread. Verbal infos too will be greatly appriciated. I have npot seen many paddock shots from 34-39(41) but have a reasonable deal of transporters , needing the supply vehicles to build a diorama .