52 replies to this topic

[2F-001]

Whilst browsing the Imperial War Museum web site (for something else entirely) I saw this:

http://www.24hourmus...n/ART18599.html

[Cirrus]

This story was front page news in all the local papers last week. The old Vickers/BAe factory has completely disappeared. If a Concorde were to end up at Brooklands it would be a fitting memorial to the company that used to employ 6000 plus people in the Weybridge area alone.

[quintin cloud]

Is there a site were list the museums that is going to get a Concorde's

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by quintin cloud
Is there a site were list the museums that is going to get a Concorde's

http://www.concordes...tirestatus.html

I'm happy to say one will be living near me at Bristol! The day she flies in I expect the entire city to come to a stop. And if Darren's office window looks in the right direction he should have a grandstand view of her final approach.

[Darren Galpin]

It will damn near fly directly overhead! You won't be able to miss it due to the noise. They had one in last year doing circuits after some refitting - no way you could miss the time of take off or landing!

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Darren Galpin
It will damn near fly directly overhead! You won't be able to miss it due to the noise. They had one in last year doing circuits after some refitting - no way you could miss the time of take off or landing!

I used to live on Filton Avenue, which is parallel to the flight path - I'd have had a good view from there!

[Darren Galpin]

Looks like the A38 will become a parking area for the day of arrival, as you will be able to see it touch down. Off topic perhaps, but earlier this year they had one of the large Antonov transport jets in to transport parts for Airbus. As it wound up its engines for take-off, a cyclist came down the main road. He claims that he was knocked clean-off his bike by the wash when the engines were at full throttle, and this was from over 200m away.

[dolomite]

I have a very good view of Filton airfield from my office window....and I shall be out there by the side of the runway with my camera on 26th November

[Gary C]

well, if Brooklands DOES get one, where the hell are they going to put it???? There's certainly no hangers available, and I would hate to see it outside just decaying away.............

[Pete Stowe]

Originally posted by dolomite
I have a very good view of Filton airfield from my office window....

So do I - are you in Aircraft, or Engines ?

[Alan Lewis]

Originally posted by Gary C
well, if Brooklands DOES get one, where the hell are they going to put it???? There's certainly no hangers available, and I would hate to see it outside just decaying away.............

It's a good point.

I don't think I'm breaking company rules too much by saying that a big talking point on the BA intranet has been the Concorde going to the Intrepid Museum - which is basically an old aircraft carrier. There is considerable misgiving - which may or may not be justified, it's only fair to say I've never been to the Intrepid myself - that this plane will not be looked after properly.

APL

[Eric McLoughlin]

I visted "Intrepid" way back in 1984. Back then the state of the aircraft varied considerably. Some were pretty good and others less so. Apparently the "Intrepid" Concorde is going to be parked separately on a barge moored alongside the carrier.

The machine slated for Brooklands is G-BBDG. 'DG never entered airline service. She was pre-production aircraft flying between 1973 and 1977. In more recent years she was used as a spares source for the airline Concordes so now is denuded of some large components (like undercarriage sections and most of the tailfin and rudders).

There are already some Comcorde bits at Brooklands. There is a tail cone section lying behind one of the hangers and a section of mid-fuselage. These are apparently from the static test rig airframe so were never part of an airworthy machine.

[biercemountain]

Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
Apparently the "Intrepid" Concorde is going to be parked separately on a barge moored alongside the carrier.

Thanks for clearing that up Eric. I found myself wondering how in the world they are going to get a Concorde on the deck of the Intrepid. Even with cranes it would be a real pain in the rear to get such a big plane onto the flight deck.

Oh well, it beats having to LAND the plane on the flight deck. Now that would be something to see.

That being said, they have landed C-130's on carriers before. Talk about a white-knuckle landing!!!!!

[2F-001]

Originally posted by biercemountain
That being said, they have landed C-130's on carriers before. Talk about a white-knuckle landing!!!!!

Wow, that must be a sight... you do mean C-130 as in a 4-engine transport plane? Would you feel safer being in the plane or on the carrier?
And can it take off again?

I recall a news story from a few years back when a Harrier, in trouble over sea, made an emergency vertical landing on a Trawler. I was never sure whether the pilot had managed to contact the trawler captain to ask permission or not! I think there was a strenuous row over compensation for loss-of-catch and then over potential salvage money for the plane... I wonder if it was more profitable than fishing?

[BRG]

Putting a Concorde at Brooklands I can understand.

Putting one on a barge next to a presevered aircraft carrier in New York seems a little less obvious. What has it got to do with military aviation and in particular carrier-borne naval aviation? It is a solely civil aircraft and really should not be there.

(And that is without opening the whole issue of the USA's reluctance/resistance to Concorde that blighted the entire project. )

[biercemountain]

Originally posted by BRG
Putting one on a barge next to a presevered aircraft carrier in New York seems a little less obvious. What has it got to do with military aviation and in particular carrier-borne naval aviation?

The Intrepid was used as an Astronaut recovery vessel during the space program and the museum on board reflects this Air/Sea/Space heritage. Although it might seem odd to include the Concorde in this mix, the fact that the planes operated out of Kennedy airport, which is nearby, seems the most likely connection.

[dolomite]

Originally posted by Pete Stowe

So do I - are you in Aircraft, or Engines ?

I'm on the aircraft side of things

Dolomite meets Concorde

[Alan Lewis]

Originally posted by BRG
Putting a Concorde at Brooklands I can understand.

Putting one on a barge next to a presevered aircraft carrier in New York seems a little less obvious. What has it got to do with military aviation and in particular carrier-borne naval aviation? It is a solely civil aircraft and really should not be there.

(And that is without opening the whole issue of the USA's reluctance/resistance to Concorde that blighted the entire project. )

Yes, many of us in the world's favourite scapegoat have wondered if a more suitable site in or around NY couldn't have been found.

Many have offered the opinion that America shouldn't get any for precisely the reason you close with. Having said which, the consensus (which I do agree with) appears to be that, if they have to have one, then New York is OK as they at least came round to the idea, sort of. Why on earth Seattle should benefit, on the other hand...

There are those who would have liked to have seen some of the old, almost forgotten, SSC destinations like Bahrain and Singapore rewarded - as Barbados have been. But, at the end of the day, there aren't enough 747s in the world to satisfy all the suggestions, let alone Concordes.

APL

[Eric McLoughlin]

Well over 1,000 747s have been built - as against 20 Concordes.

And yes, in the 1970s a Lockheed C-130 Hercules was flown on and off an aircraft carrier in a series of feasability studies. The tests were successful but not taken any further.

[Don Capps]

The arrival or departure if Concorde was always an interesting time at IAD (Dulles). It was not unusual for the approach to be over our neighborhood. With the NASM annex being opened soon at Dulles, I wonder why it doesn't warrant a Concorde? Being one who often tried to coordinate his comings and goings to fly specific types of aircraft and to be around when Concorde did its "thing," I have missed it quite a bit since it stopped flying into IAD some time ago. Believe it or not, Braniff flew a Concorde into DFW from IAD a for a short while. A high school classmate was a flight attendant on several of the flights.

[Eric McLoughlin]

Although only ever owned by British Airways and Air France, Concordes did appear in different colour schemes on occasions. In 1979/80 a number of flights were made to Dallas Fort Worth with Braniff and at leat one plane was painted in Braniff colours. The planes used were even given temporary US registrations. A Concorde also flew in Singapore Airlines colours around the same time.

For most of the gestation period of the aircraft (1962-1975) artists' impressions always depicted it in the colours of BOAC. In the end, they were all delivered after the formation of British Airways in 1974 and so never carried BOAC markings. The only hint of their intended owners were the registrations which had been specifically set aside for the fleet in the early 70s (G-BOAA - G-BOAG).

[Pete Stowe]

Originally posted by dolomite

I'm on the aircraft side of things

Dolomite meets Concorde

You'll have a better view than me then. I'm over the other side of the A38 in Engines

[Tim Murray]

Originally posted by Darren Galpin
Looks like the A38 will become a parking area for the day of arrival, as you will be able to see it touch down. Off topic perhaps, but earlier this year they had one of the large Antonov transport jets in to transport parts for Airbus. As it wound up its engines for take-off, a cyclist came down the main road. He claims that he was knocked clean-off his bike by the wash when the engines were at full throttle, and this was from over 200m away.

There used to be a little garage and filling station called Runway Motors on the A38 (main road) just at the end of the runway. One day the Vulcan flying test bed came in to land a little low, and its wake demolished the garage. The owner sensibly chose to rebuild it a little way up the road, in Patchway. When Concorde was test flying from the airfield, the A38 was often closed (using traffic lights) when it took off or landed, depending on its direction of arrival or departure.

[Alan Lewis]

Originally posted by Don Capps
I wonder why it doesn't warrant a Concorde?

One of the Air France planes is going to the Smithsonian so I assume that's the excuse. But, as Eric and I have jointly sort of mentioned, even a 1,000 plus Concordes to go round would leave lots of people disappointed.

APL

[Vitesse2]

Reviving this for a couple of reasons. Firstly, Concorde makes its last flight tomorrow

Secondly, in true TNF tradition the Bristol Evening Post have succeeded in providing an obscure motor sport nostalgia link in their souvenir magazine:

[dolomite]

Furthermore, the landing site tomorrow was the venue for one of the first motor sport events to held in the UK after the end of WWII.

Filton

[Gary C]

[Darren Galpin]

It has just landed for the last time..................

[Vitesse2]

.... and commercial aviation has just taken a giant leap: thirty years backwards

Adieu Concorde.

[rdrcr]

Originally posted by Vitesse2
.... and commercial aviation has just taken a giant leap: thirty years backwards

Adieu Concorde.

No doubt...

We just got our Concorde SST (a British Airways jet) yesterday at the Intrepid Air and Space Museum in NYC. It arrived, rather ingloriously, on a barge traveling 6 mph. :





I'm very glad I flew her when I had the chance. One hell of an aircraft. Too bad the F.A.A. capitulated to political pressures... The whole venture might have been profitable if landings were allowed in places like L.A., S.F., Dallas, and Chicago.

Another has been given to the Seattle Air Museum...

[ian senior]

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but......if Richard Branson (or anyone else) was willing to continue operating Concordes, why was he not allowed to? Could it be due to the fact that his attempts to run a railway are lamentable, and also that if his balloons keep falling out of the sky his organisation would hardly be in a position to operate a much more complicated aircraft.....

[Darren Galpin]

It may be an Air France jet, but the one in the picture has British Airways colours! Due to the political mood of the day perhaps? Or was it really a BA one?

[rdrcr]

Sorry, you're correct... it was a BA Jet - come to think of it, I really doubt we'd accept anything from France at this point in time.

Here is the article from the Intrepid Air & Space Museum

[rdrcr]

Originally posted by ian senior
Perhaps I'm missing something here, but......if Richard Branson (or anyone else) was willing to continue operating Concordes, why was he not allowed to? Could it be due to the fact that his attempts to run a railway are lamentable, and also that if his balloons keep falling out of the sky his organisation would hardly be in a position to operate a much more complicated aircraft.....

It has to do with cost effectivness of running the aircraft. Every part has a lifetime, many of the planes have been reskinned at a cost of millions of dollars. Even if a heavy-hitter like Branson were to buy three planes, one to use and the others for parts, it still wouldn't be cost effective to operate.

The same thing is happening to the Beach/Raethon Starship. I have a good friend with one, and he's keeping his - one of only nine remaining in private hands.

[Macca]

I have seen a report from someone who knows a BA captain and has the inside line.

Apparently Air France has been losing money since their Paris Concorde crash, although BA is still breaking even, and they are (illegally)subsidised by the French Government, who also have a big stake in or control over, Airbus Industrie who have have been providing the technical support to Concorde.

So basically it's all down to the French government (boo, hiss), who have backed up their insistence that ALL Concordes are grounded, not even allowing one to be kept for airshows in case it embarasses them by being too popular, by having Airbus refuse to provide support in future and also refuse to pass on or sell the technical equipment to another aerospace firm who might be prepared to look after the aircraft for Virgin (after all, the technology is 30 years old, so it shouldn't have been that difficult).

Paul Mackness

[dosco]

Originally posted by rdrcr
Sorry, you're correct... it was a BA Jet - come to think of it, I really doubt we'd accept anything from France at this point in time.

Here is the article from the Intrepid Air & Space Museum

Please.

The final Air France Concorde flight landed at Dulles/Washington, and was promptly rolled into the National Air and Space Museum Udvar-Hazy Annex hangar. The entire aircraft, along with many others (including the B-29, SR-71, Space Shuttle Enterprise, etc.) will be on display. I, for one, can't wait to go there.

Since I live in the DC area, I'm planning on going there, and that's for sure.

Read about it here: http://www.nasm.si.e...seum/udvarhazy/

[dosco]

Originally posted by Don Capps
The arrival or departure if Concorde was always an interesting time at IAD (Dulles). It was not unusual for the approach to be over our neighborhood. With the NASM annex being opened soon at Dulles, I wonder why it doesn't warrant a Concorde?

It does.

http://www.nasm.si.e...seum/udvarhazy/

Be there or be square!

[rdrcr]

Originally posted by dosco


Please.

...Since I live in the DC area, I'm planning on going there, and that's for sure.

Read about it here: http://www.nasm.si.e...seum/udvarhazy/

Oh... Mr. "PC"

I stand corrected, but my opinion remains.

[dolomite]

Here's one of my shots of the final landing at Filton this afternoon - a memorable but very very sad day. In particular, hearing those engines shut down and fall silent for the last time right in front of me was a poignant moment indeed.

[dolomite]

If anybody's interested, the ex flight test Concorde G-BBDG is currently out on Filton airfield in the process of being dismantled for its trip to Brooklands. The wings and engines have been removed and the fuselage will be separated into several sections to facilitate transport by road, which should happen in the next month or two.



Full details of the plan to reassemble and restore G-BBDG at the Brooklands museum can be found here: http://www.concordes...ands/index.html

[scags]

The aircraft in Dolomite's post looks a lot sadder than anything on the Intrepid! Most of the exhibits are in great shape, especially the ones in the hanger deck. I drive by a couple of times a week, and it's great to look up and see the SR-71 when you're stuck in traffic. The museum also has a late 50's submarine and a destroyer escort, along with some tanks.

[Eric McLoughlin]

G-BBDG was never restored in any way over her life. She is still displaying the BA colour scheme she was painted with when rolled out in 1974. In fact, she must be the last BA aircraft to carry the original BA colour scheme (and I'm not including any which may have been restored to that scheme for display purposes).

BA was launched as a new airline in April 1974 following the merger of BOAC, BEA, BEA Helicopters, Cambrian Airways and Northeast Airways.

[xkssFrankOpalka]

Great thread, I was fortunate enough to fly Concorde Heathrow to NY in 1985, so that no one thinks Im rich, I was an Air Courier during that time and when my return flight was canceled I was put on the Concorde. Nice ride, too bad its gone. Also saw Concorde at Oshkosh Air Show some yrs ago. Arrived just in time to see it coming thru the clouds nose down and landing, at the end of the day it was towed down to the end of the runway and with a blast of afterburners was gone. Shook the ground and amazed everyone.

[dolomite]

Originally posted by Eric McLoughlin
G-BBDG was never restored in any way over her life. She is still displaying the BA colour scheme she was painted with when rolled out in 1974. In fact, she must be the last BA aircraft to carry the original BA colour scheme (and I'm not including any which may have been restored to that scheme for display purposes).

BA was launched as a new airline in April 1974 following the merger of BOAC, BEA, BEA Helicopters, Cambrian Airways and Northeast Airways.

Actually she is not currently in a BA colour scheme. In the early 1980s she was repainted in an all white livery (apart from the blue stripe), which can be seen in some of the photos on the Brooklands site, and this is what she still has. However the intent is that when fully restored the original BA 1974 livery will be reproduced.

[T-Man]

This should interest you - Technics Museum in Sinsheim, Germany



to the right an Air France Concorde, and on the left of it an Aeroflot Tupolec Tu-144

the only place in the world where you can check out both i guess

[Eric McLoughlin]

Dolomite - the scheme worn by G-BBDG IS the initial Concorde scheme applied by BA. The Concorde scheme was slightly different to that carried by the main fleet. All other BA aircraft had a dark blue lower fuselage. Concorde could not be painted with so much dark paint because of aerodynamic heating at Mach 2. Instead, the Concordes wore an all white scheme with a thin blue cheatline. The only part of the scheme missing on G-BBDG is the wording "British Airways" which was originally carried below the cheatline. BA used the original scheme between 1974 and 1984.

BA changed to what was called the Landor Scheme in 1984/85 which resulted in the upper fuselages becoming a light shade of grey. However, with Concorde (again) it was decided that they should retain their white fuselages for temperature purposes.

The final scheme change occured in 1997 with the introduction, controversially as it turned out, of the multi-coloured Utopia Scheme. Although the rest of the fleet received weird and wonderful "ethnic" tails, Concorde was given what is, in effect, a wavy version of the original 1974 tail colours and (yet again) an all white fuselage. Because of public protest, the Utopia Schemes are currently being replaced in the rest of the fleet with what is, in fact, a version of the final Concorde scheme.

Hundreds of pictures of Concordes in all the schemes used by BA can seen at Airliners.net.

[dolomite]

OK Eric I agree, the fuselage is still in the same colour scheme, but the tail fin was painted white, all BA wording and logos were removed, and 'BRITISH AEROSPACE - AEROSPATIALE' painted along the fuselage above the cheatline.

Check out these photos taken in the 1980s:

http://www.concordes...res/gbbdg16.jpg

http://www.concordes...res/gbbdg17.jpg

http://www.concordes...res/gbbdg18.jpg

http://www.concordes...res/gbbdg19.jpg

[BRG]

So when is this Concorde to be moved to Brooklands? Anyone know?

Presumably, they will reassemble it and park it next to the VC10 and Merchantman already sitting just outside the Museum at the railway end of the runway? I hope they look after it better than those other aircraft, which are getting very shabby.

[Garagiste]

Originally posted by BRG
So when is this Concorde to be moved to Brooklands? Anyone know?

Have they not moved it yet? I thought that by now we might have seen the final "Final Journey" story, but alas apparently not.

[dolomite]

Chaps, go back up to post 40 and follow the link to the Brooklands site for the latest news. The plan is to construct a new building to house both the Concorde and the existing aircraft at Brooklands.

The final structural parts that could be easily removed from Concorde G-BBDG have now been safely transported to their new home at Brooklands museum, where they will be re-attached to the airframe during the restoration programme.

CeeJay Systems again provided their custom built jig and Warrick flatbed vehicle to transport the Weybridge-built tail fin, which had been removed from the aircraft at Filton in 1989, when the aircraft was moved to the purpose-built storage hangar.

Queens' Motors were on hand to move the two forward wing sections and the air intakes the 125 miles to Weybridge. The forward wings were placed on Queens' 40ft flatbed lorry, while the intakes went on their 30ft transporter, which with its "hi-ab" hydraulic crane helped to load and unload all three vehicles.

Andy Lambert from Mobile Tracking Systems escorted the wide load along the M4 and M25.

Earlier in the week the National Rescue Group had provided two motorway recovery vehicles to assist in transporting the two twin secondary nozzle assemblies (TSNs) to Brooklands. The secondary nozzle assemblies are the mounting points for the "buckets" which double up as both thrust reversers and secondary nozzles. The "buckets" have been at the museum since their earlier delivery from Filton.

All major removable parts have now been removed from the airframe and the next stage will be to section it for its transportation to the museum. This will get underway in the coming weeks.

Some further pictures will soon be added to the multimedia section.