i know bout Prost and Senna and the their well documented history at McLaren. what is more interesting to me is Prost and Mansell.
how did they get along
how come they ended up together
how different were they
their record (i think prost beat him)
and any more light that im sure a lot of the posters here who were active gp watchers in that era.
xxx
G
Prost and Mansell at Ferrari - A few questions
Started by
skinnylizard
, Nov 14 2003 18:18
4 replies to this topic
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#2
mera308gtb
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- 125 posts
- Joined: September 02
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Posted 15 November 2003 - 02:29
Hi. I am going off of memory here, so excuse me if I get some facts wrong. To start off with, Prost and Mansell were only teammates for one year, 1990, at Ferrari. In 1989, Prost announced he was leaving McLaren and that he had not yet signed with another team. Berger then signed with McLaren leaving a seat open at Ferrari. So essentially, Prost and Berger swapped places.
Prost and Mansell had always been friends and both seemed very pleased to be teammates. At the first race of the year in Phoenix, their press conference was very jovial. This was in stark contrast to McLaren's press conference, BTW. After a few races, the relationship at Ferrari seemed strained. The reasons for this depend upon whom you ask. Probably it was the result of two very competative people dealing with the fact that one driver was winning and the other was not.
Mansell had a string of bad luck (and a string of getting out-driven) and by mid-season he announced his retirement. He eventualy would change his mind and sign with Williams, demanding absolute number one status. Clearly, the joint number one wasn't appealing anymore.
The relationship was at its worst at Portugal where Ferrari secured the front row. At the start, Mansell slew across the track causing Prost to take avoiding action and allowing the McLarens to lead into the first corner. Prost was livid at the press conference where Mansell and Senna gushed over each other. At the next race, Prost won and (publicly, at least) things seemed better when Prost and Mansell gushed over each other.
Today, I think Prost and Mansell still get along fine. I have seen them together and they seem friendly enough.
Qualifying was split between them at 8-8, with Prost getting a slightly better total time (if you sum all 16 qualifying times). Mansell had 2 (?) pole positions (at Paul Ricard and Estoril) and Prost had none.
Prost won five times (Brazil, Mexico, France, Great Britain, Spain) and Mansell won once (Portugal).
Prost had over twice as many points as Mansell.
Both were great drivers and both could beat the other on his day. But there was definately a difference between the two. In my opinion, 1990 was a great example that Prost and Senna were head and shoulders above the rest. Their respective teammates (Mansell and Berger) would occaisionally challange for wins in the same cars Prost and Senna were challanging for the championship.
Prost and Mansell had always been friends and both seemed very pleased to be teammates. At the first race of the year in Phoenix, their press conference was very jovial. This was in stark contrast to McLaren's press conference, BTW. After a few races, the relationship at Ferrari seemed strained. The reasons for this depend upon whom you ask. Probably it was the result of two very competative people dealing with the fact that one driver was winning and the other was not.
Mansell had a string of bad luck (and a string of getting out-driven) and by mid-season he announced his retirement. He eventualy would change his mind and sign with Williams, demanding absolute number one status. Clearly, the joint number one wasn't appealing anymore.
The relationship was at its worst at Portugal where Ferrari secured the front row. At the start, Mansell slew across the track causing Prost to take avoiding action and allowing the McLarens to lead into the first corner. Prost was livid at the press conference where Mansell and Senna gushed over each other. At the next race, Prost won and (publicly, at least) things seemed better when Prost and Mansell gushed over each other.
Today, I think Prost and Mansell still get along fine. I have seen them together and they seem friendly enough.
Qualifying was split between them at 8-8, with Prost getting a slightly better total time (if you sum all 16 qualifying times). Mansell had 2 (?) pole positions (at Paul Ricard and Estoril) and Prost had none.
Prost won five times (Brazil, Mexico, France, Great Britain, Spain) and Mansell won once (Portugal).
Prost had over twice as many points as Mansell.
Both were great drivers and both could beat the other on his day. But there was definately a difference between the two. In my opinion, 1990 was a great example that Prost and Senna were head and shoulders above the rest. Their respective teammates (Mansell and Berger) would occaisionally challange for wins in the same cars Prost and Senna were challanging for the championship.
#3
arcsine
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- 625 posts
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Posted 15 November 2003 - 07:18
Mansell (according to his autobiography) claims that Prost got Ferrari to support his challenge for the title at Nigel's expense. He also claims that Prost wanted him to play second fiddle at Williams in 1993 (had Nigel re-signed rather than quitting in favour of Indycars).
Any evidence out there supporting Nigel's claims?
Any evidence out there supporting Nigel's claims?
#4
RJL
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- 3,173 posts
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Posted 15 November 2003 - 17:35
This was posted recently by RediscoveryX over in RC, but I thought it was quite topical to this thread and have cut and pasted it here. Thanx RX.
Here's what Steve Nicholls, Ferrari insider had to say on the Alain/ Nigel saga of 1990, make of it what you will:
quote:
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Alain was one of the least political drivers I have vere worked with. That year [1990], if anything, it was Nigel Mansell who was attempting to play politics.
Prost was very quick, quicker than Nigel, better in every respect, especially in developing the car. He didn't speak fluent Italian, like everybody said, but he knew enough to get him by. Nigel didn't and that was a problem - more for himself than anybody else. He needed a reason for why Alain was better: he spoke Italian and, therefore, had ingratiated himself with the team.
Nigel saw me as Prost's man. I can see why, we had come over from McLaren, but why would I work with one half of the team to the detriment of the other? Nigel didn't want to tell me a thing. He just wanted to work with his own race engineer.
In testing, he [Nigel] always wanted to run light, be fast, set a time and go home. He knew the Italian media and fans liked a fast driver, that they would get behind him. Prost's race engineer used to have to force him to fit some quallies on and do a time. Throughout all of this, Prost wanted to work as a team.
In 1991, when Ferrari gave Alain the bullet, he had two problems: he told the truth and he told it to the press. He was not the least bit devious. In fact, if he had a fault it was that he was too upfront.
I was Senna's race engineer at McLaren. We had a good relationship. I didn't see him socially but professionally we hit it off. But I'd have to say that, if either of them had to be deemed political, it was Senna: it was usually Alain reacting to something Ayrton had done.
Prost was just a decent bloke, never a superstar in his actions. He was a multiple champion, but when we arrived at airports there was never any of that straight-to-the-front-of-the-queue sort of thing - he would stand with the rest of the lads, laughing and joking. When Niki beat him to the championship he was pissed off, but that didn't stop him from coming down to the disco to celebrate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's what Steve Nicholls, Ferrari insider had to say on the Alain/ Nigel saga of 1990, make of it what you will:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alain was one of the least political drivers I have vere worked with. That year [1990], if anything, it was Nigel Mansell who was attempting to play politics.
Prost was very quick, quicker than Nigel, better in every respect, especially in developing the car. He didn't speak fluent Italian, like everybody said, but he knew enough to get him by. Nigel didn't and that was a problem - more for himself than anybody else. He needed a reason for why Alain was better: he spoke Italian and, therefore, had ingratiated himself with the team.
Nigel saw me as Prost's man. I can see why, we had come over from McLaren, but why would I work with one half of the team to the detriment of the other? Nigel didn't want to tell me a thing. He just wanted to work with his own race engineer.
In testing, he [Nigel] always wanted to run light, be fast, set a time and go home. He knew the Italian media and fans liked a fast driver, that they would get behind him. Prost's race engineer used to have to force him to fit some quallies on and do a time. Throughout all of this, Prost wanted to work as a team.
In 1991, when Ferrari gave Alain the bullet, he had two problems: he told the truth and he told it to the press. He was not the least bit devious. In fact, if he had a fault it was that he was too upfront.
I was Senna's race engineer at McLaren. We had a good relationship. I didn't see him socially but professionally we hit it off. But I'd have to say that, if either of them had to be deemed political, it was Senna: it was usually Alain reacting to something Ayrton had done.
Prost was just a decent bloke, never a superstar in his actions. He was a multiple champion, but when we arrived at airports there was never any of that straight-to-the-front-of-the-queue sort of thing - he would stand with the rest of the lads, laughing and joking. When Niki beat him to the championship he was pissed off, but that didn't stop him from coming down to the disco to celebrate.
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#5
masterhit
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- 1,837 posts
- Joined: May 02
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Posted 15 November 2003 - 20:34
Well... even Nigel Roebuck, a personal friend of Alain's and never a man to air a bad word against a friend, publicly stated that Alain had a 100 plus page contract with Ferrari stipulating all sorts of things. Of note was that he had first access to new development parts on the car.
Alain was a personable chap, but he was no pushover.
Regarding Prost learning Italian, stories in Autosport at the time said that Mansell allegedly took intensive courses lasting a week, ten hours a day, trying to match Prost. There were stories that he did two weeks or so of this, was unable to speak English for several hours, eventually deciding he wasn't cut out for Italian. Typical Nige! Never one to not overstretch himself!!!
I think if I had to make a sweeping statement, it is that both were ferociously competitive. Mansell preferred the direct approach, Prost the networking and meticulous approach. Though both would complain publicly to try and put pressure on the team/suppliers if they felt it was needed.
So both, like many competitive athletes, realised the importance of the psychological game.
There are stories of Prost swapping his race chassis number with the spare car, things like that, and while Mansell had a tendency towards paranoia whenever things did not go his way, I'm prepared to believe this story, because in Prost's "Art of Competition Driving" book, Alain recalls his first ever drive at a racing school. He says that he turned up a day early deliberately, gave some excuse, and took the time 'while he was there' to drive each kart, to find out which was the fastest.
It's not by accident that these people reach the top, they're all pretty crafty and tough.
Alain was a personable chap, but he was no pushover.
Regarding Prost learning Italian, stories in Autosport at the time said that Mansell allegedly took intensive courses lasting a week, ten hours a day, trying to match Prost. There were stories that he did two weeks or so of this, was unable to speak English for several hours, eventually deciding he wasn't cut out for Italian. Typical Nige! Never one to not overstretch himself!!!
I think if I had to make a sweeping statement, it is that both were ferociously competitive. Mansell preferred the direct approach, Prost the networking and meticulous approach. Though both would complain publicly to try and put pressure on the team/suppliers if they felt it was needed.
So both, like many competitive athletes, realised the importance of the psychological game.
There are stories of Prost swapping his race chassis number with the spare car, things like that, and while Mansell had a tendency towards paranoia whenever things did not go his way, I'm prepared to believe this story, because in Prost's "Art of Competition Driving" book, Alain recalls his first ever drive at a racing school. He says that he turned up a day early deliberately, gave some excuse, and took the time 'while he was there' to drive each kart, to find out which was the fastest.
It's not by accident that these people reach the top, they're all pretty crafty and tough.
