18 replies to this topic

[biercemountain]

This might sound silly, but do F1 tires "squeal" during wheelspin, lockup or during a spin?

Having never been to an F1 race I have no firsthand experience and TV doesn't help. The only time I can recall hearing anything like a tire "squeal" was during JV's spectacular crash in Australia a few seasons ago.

Apart from that incident, all I've ever heard are the engines (which probably drown out most of the other sounds the cars make).

[MclarenF1]

I remember seeing a video of a Michelin F1 tire on an MTS Flat-Trac tire-testing machine and it was making some horrendous noises. Now, whether or not a tire-testing machine is representing reality is up to further discussion.

[Newtown]

They do make noise but not during cornering like you hear in a racing game. In the game, the tire squeal is an auditory cue that you are using the tires 'properly' since you cannot feel the car in your body the way you can in real life (seat of your pants type thing). Last year I was watching a race on tv and the coolest thing was they had the ambiant sound from the track and the commentators weren't talking when they suddenly switched to Irvine pitting. His tires squealed when he tore out of his pit box, which was most cool to hear. I think they screech when they totally loose traction, like when a driver is spinning out, at least they do in NASCAR and they run on slicks too (as F1 used to) so you would have to guess that the tires do squeal but only in certain circumstances.

[Ross Stonefeld]

A few years back, groove era, when Bridgestone were the only supplier; at monaco there wasnt really squealing but there was definately some chirping

[Chevy II Nova]

I have a video of Jenson Button's Monaco wreck, there is a definite squealing as the car slid into the wall.

[D-man]

Sitting at Turn 11 & 12 (the quick chicane at the back of the circuit) at the Australian GP in 2001, I can tell you that if a car gets out of shape, there is definitely a squeal/screech. Montoya (most spectacularly), Kimi and Jacques were the main sources of tire screeches. They were all regularly very sideways at high speed (Montoya especially). It was great to watch (and listen to!)

[biercemountain]

Thanks for clearing that up guys. Shows you how much of the experience you lose by watching a race on TV.

I honestly assumed the tires made very little noise.

[Pioneer]

If you have never seen an F1 race live I highly recommend it.

To put it bluntly, television COMPLETELY fails to capture anything like the real sound of the cars.

Its not even close.

[schuy]

True, Pioneer.

I was amazed every time I heard an F1 engine for real.
The way it reaches into your soul and takes over your body...

Not even the best of audio systems will be able to replicate it.

[RDV]

...not only squeal, they chirp, they burp,they groan, they thrumm and in days before TC you could hear the "Bronx cheer" of carcass judder when powering out of corners.. this was caused by carcass being subjected to lateral and longitudinal loads simultaneously, and as contact patch acepts assymetrical loads the whole tread "squirms" and keeps trying to realign with the the direction of motion... this was the same whether you had crossplies or radials... also a very good indication of relative toe and camber stiffness of suspension, as a less rigid one would deform more , hence altering contact patch locus and causing more squirm.

[BRIAN GLOVER]

I remember Jodie Schecter driving a P917 at Mosport Park way back in '72. He was lapping the Mc Larens for about the 20 time. I was standing at a slow left hander on the inside, forget which,
and the Porsche lurched like a deer several times thru the turn as Jodie tried to regulate thrust.
He either had 1200 hp or he didn't. I remember seeing the rear low aspect ratio tires crinkle like dragster tires each time the big Porshe lurched ahead. The Michelins complained by shouting out their pain and discomfort. You could hear the tires over and above the really strange and really loud sound of the flat turbo 12. Almost like a deep loud fog horn, only louder. Jody's head shot back and fourth about a foot each time. If ever a Hans device was needed, it was needed then.
No tactics were required to pass, you just lurched past anybody anytime and anywhere you pleased. Donnahue only used the 6th stage switch once, which added another 100 hp.
Even on the slow down lap, Jody had trouble keeping a constant speed. He tried to wave while his torso moved back and forth.
Thems was the days, my friends, when guys were guys and girls new it. Some things you never forget.

Quote

Originally posted by RDV
...not only squeal, they chirp, they burp,they groan, they thrumm and in days before TC you could hear the "Bronx cheer" of carcass judder when powering out of corners.. this was caused by carcass being subjected to lateral and longitudinal loads simultaneously, and as contact patch acepts assymetrical loads the whole tread "squirms" and keeps trying to realign with the the direction of motion... this was the same whether you had crossplies or radials... also a very good indication of relative toe and camber stiffness of suspension, as a less rigid one would deform more , hence altering contact patch locus and causing more squirm.

[RJL]

Quote

Originally posted by Pioneer
If you have never seen an F1 race live I highly recommend it.

To put it bluntly, television COMPLETELY fails to capture anything like the real sound of the cars.

Its not even close.

Yes indeed.

And I would add that television fails dismally to capture the true speed of the cars. Standing in an area where you can see them plummett through a high speed sequence is mindboggling. It makes you think they must be remotely guided as it seems unthinkable that a human being is in there making decisions at those speeds.

[Yelnats]

Quote

Originally posted by Chevy II Nova
I have a video of Jenson Button's Monaco wreck, there is a definite squealing as the car slid into the wall.

Yeah, but the squeal came from the cockpit!

[desmo]

Quote

Originally posted by Yelnats


Yeah, but the squeal came from the cockpit!

heheheheh

[JackBauer]

i previously lived in albert park (well not IN Albert park but the suburb albert park) and i tell you i could hear those engines and they sounded beutiful. a great distraction in high school i tell you.. nothing brightened up friday morning maths than a 18000 rpm engine going full speed

[peterC]

This is my first thread and already off topic! There is that famous footage of Mario Andretti with a real ‘film’ camera on board going around an oval circuit. The sound obviously is a lot different as F1 cars on board sound is synthesized these days and Andretti’s car was howling big, it really surprised me. I think the footage was for that IMAX thing and if one ever gets a chance, check it out.

I also believe that the inherent nature of ‘winged’ cars don’t allow them to slide at a great extent on the big fasty’s, (There are always those drivers that seem to defy aerodynamics though!) and with the tyre compound these days being more like a chemical compound rather than rubber don’t squeal per se, but they sure as hell howl a bit. Especially when the back decides to become the front.

pc

[JackBauer]

Quote

Originally posted by peterC
This is my first thread and already off topic! There is that famous footage of Mario Andretti with a real ‘film’ camera on board going around an oval circuit. The sound obviously is a lot different as F1 cars on board sound is synthesized these days and Andretti’s car was howling big, it really surprised me. I think the footage was for that IMAX thing and if one ever gets a chance, check it out.
pc

super speedway was the programe i believe.
it is avalable on dvd (at least in australia)

[David Lawson]

I've had the pleasure of standing in the Stewart garage during practice a few years ago when Johnny Herbert came in for a practice pit stop and stopped on a sixpence almost in front of me with the fronts locking but the noise from the engine was so unbelievably loud you couldn't hear the skidding tyres.

I remember the near silent Lotus 56 turbine at Silverstone in 1971 softly whistling round the circuit. There was no squealing of tyres but a lot of "bump thump" over any surface irregularity and a loud "farting" noise as the car rode up onto the serrated kerbing on the exit of the bends.

Another hidden sound in F1 was in the days of ground effect and the sliding skirts, when a car pitted with a silent engine the noise the skirts made rubbing the track surface sounded like a bag of nails being shaken!

Sorry to go off at a tangent.

David

[Eau Red]

Quote

Originally posted by schuy
True, Pioneer.

I was amazed every time I heard an F1 engine for real.
The way it reaches into your soul and takes over your body...

Not even the best of audio systems will be able to replicate it.

something that is totally lost on TV is the noise of the gearshifts, which sound sort of like a cannon going off, with a boom and a shockwave. and they generally miss all the backfiring and enging popping during the braking & downshifts. i think they just need more microphones closer to the track.