53 replies to this topic

[dbltop]

Nascar.com reports that up and coming J.J. Yeley has signed a multiyear contract with Joe Gibbs' team to run an A,B,C year in 2004. ( ARCA, Busch, Cup.) Presumably this will become a full time Cup ride in future. This is another example of why the U.S. is always going to have trouble putting a driver in F1. All the good young talent in recent years have opted away from open wheel racing and I don't think we will ever see a Nascar driver move to F1 no matter how good he is.

[ehagar]

Originally posted by dbltop
Nascar.com reports that up and coming J.J. Yeley has signed a multiyear contract with Joe Gibbs' team to run an A,B,C year in 2004. ( ARCA, Busch, Cup.) Presumably this will become a full time Cup ride in future. This is another example of why the U.S. is always going to have trouble putting a driver in F1. All the good young talent in recent years have opted away from open wheel racing and I don't think we will ever see a Nascar driver move to F1 no matter how good he is.

I don't discount that Yeley is a great driver, but why the hell should F1 even take a sniff at the guy. F1 has their own little finishing school (F3, F3000, FRenault etc) and tend to look down on a driver that doesn't fit that traditional mould. Maybe in the pre-downforce days the guy would have a chance but those days are long gone.

Hell, he didn't even get a shot at a top IRL team. The IRL isn't even for sprint car drivers it seems.

[BRG]

Come on guys, let the rest of us into the secret...

Who is J J Yeley and what has he done so far?

[ehagar]

Originally posted by BRG
Come on guys, let the rest of us into the secret...

Who is J J Yeley and what has he done so far?

Won a bunch of races in a series that requires big balls... not that small gonad Euro stuff.

[indycarjunkie]

Originally posted by ehagar
Won a bunch of races in a series that requires big balls... not that small gonad Euro stuff.

heh, indeed.

That would be USAC midgets, sprints and silver crown cars IIRC.

[indycarjunkie]

Regarding US talent driving taxis....that's where the money is nowadays. Although I personally don't care for NASCAR too much I can understand the attraction that talented drivers might have for it. Dollars aside...there are 43 seats in NASCAR. That's more than the IRL and CART combined. Therefore your chances of getting a ride in a "top tier" series are much greater there. As ehagar pointed out, F1 has their own development series and they don't seem interested in anything else as sources of up-coming talent.

[russomey]

Originally posted by indycarjunkie
Regarding US talent driving taxis....that's where the money is nowadays. Although I personally don't care for NASCAR too much I can understand the attraction that talented drivers might have for it. Dollars aside...there are 43 seats in NASCAR. That's more than the IRL and CART combined. Therefore your chances of getting a ride in a "top tier" series are much greater there. As ehagar pointed out, F1 has their own development series and they don't seem interested in anything else as sources of up-coming talent.

I would also add that if you have the talent that there are many doors which open in the NASCAR suite of series. They (NASCAR) are very aware of snatching up the young American drivers who prove themselves in the series which ICJ just described. Not only because those series are great stepping stones to NASCAR but also because such drivers are quite marketable.

Of course if you are a conspiracy buff you may also subscribe to the notion that F1 and NASCAR have been plucking prospected talent for years now as a means to derail American open wheel racing in general.;)

[vapaokie]

Originally posted by indycarjunkie


heh, indeed.

That would be USAC midgets, sprints and silver crown cars IIRC.

Not to mention that he's only the second driver, including Tony Stewart to win the "triple crown"; the championship in all three in the same season.

[BRG]

Originally posted by ehagar
a series that requires big balls...

water polo? basketball?

Still none the wiser.

[ehagar]

Originally posted by BRG
water polo? basketball?

Still none the wiser.

I was intentionally being a bit of a prick, but as indycarjunkie said, Yeley is a sprint car driver and one of the best at that.

I haven't seen a lot of sprint car races on TV, but of the few I have watched they leave my absolutely gobsmacked. It is very racy and dangerous. Much more so than any Formula series I've seen. I wish I had a chance to go to the sprint car race the night before the USGP.

[CrushedDreams]

Yes and he did really well in a formula car: both road and oval... Oh, that was someone else.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Yeley's experence is irrelevant to a modern formula car. Its much more applicable to a stock car.

[BRG]

If you want something done, you have to do it yourself...

http://www.jjyeley.com/enter.html

OK, so this guy apparently drives around on some sort of dirt track in what appears to be a scrapyard special. I agree that he must have big balls to risk himself in something that looks barely roadworthy. And we are supposed to care that he has signed to drive in NASCAR? Better there than in small gonad Euro stuff (whatever that is...)

[ehagar]

Originally posted by BRG
If you want something done, you have to do it yourself...

http://www.jjyeley.com/enter.html

OK, so this guy apparently drives around on some sort of dirt track in what appears to be a scrapyard special. I agree that he must have big balls to risk himself in something that looks barely roadworthy. And we are supposed to care that he has signed to drive in NASCAR? Better there than in small gonad Euro stuff (whatever that is...)

I take it you don't know what a Sprint car is then.

Incidently, I agree with Ross, but it seems a bit sad most of America's most talented wouldn't even think of F1....

In theory the IRL is supposed to be for guys like Yeley... in practice Sprint Cars are the training ground for Nascar.

[russomey]

Originally posted by ehagar


I take it you don't know what a Sprint car is then.

Incidently, I agree with Ross, but it seems a bit sad most of America's most talented wouldn't even think of F1....

In theory the IRL is supposed to be for guys like Yeley... in practice Sprint Cars are the training ground for Nascar.

That was plan A or a lie depending on how you look at it. Either way the IRL is on Plan K now and it appears they could care less in regard to cultivating Americas finer talents

Who knows - maybe Jesse Jackson will force Toyota or blackmail the IRL in to hiring Gary Coleman as a driver.... he's the right height you know.

[Ross Stonefeld]

It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the IRL.

This is about practicality. What you learn driving a USAC car is closer to whats required in NASCAR than CART/IRL/F1.


BRG they're actually pretty cool. 600-900hp depending on engine size and fuel. No downforce, packed dirt ovals. They look like they'd be real fun to drive

[shaggy]

The only thing T&H did for the IRL, in their first year there, is the same thing they ever did to CART in all their years there : increase the cost and throw the little guy out.

On the other hand, I have also read that JJ did not really shine when he had a chance to do so in the IRL and, then, did not even show up to a scheduled test with some team (he did not even call to cancel the test; just did not show up).

Then, again, if you were JJ and you had to choose between an IRL ride or one of the top Nascar rides, which would you choose ?

shaggy

[vapaokie]

No downforce unless it's winged sprints. Either form pavement or dirt, wings or not, power exceeds grip (410 c.i. sprints are making a good 900hp, car is about 1200 lb); making throttle control absolutely critical to success. Probably why it seems to be such a good training ground for NASCAR.

[BRG]

Originally posted by ehagar
I take it you don't know what a Sprint car is then.

I was intentionally being a bit of a prick too, of course...

But sprint cars seem to be similar to our F1 stock cars (see http://www.startrax.info/brisca.html ) but no-one in the UK regards them as a feeder formula to greater things - it is just a bit of fun for weekend warriors.

Although Derek Warwick did start in stock-cars and he got to F1...

[Jordan191]

Originally posted by shaggy
The only thing T&H did for the IRL, in their first year there, is the same thing they ever did to CART in all their years there : increase the cost and throw the little guy out.

On the other hand, I have also read that JJ did not really shine when he had a chance to do so in the IRL and, then, did not even show up to a scheduled test with some team (he did not even call to cancel the test; just did not show up).

Then, again, if you were JJ and you had to choose between an IRL ride or one of the top Nascar rides, which would you choose ?

shaggy

what part of It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the IRL . don't you understand?

having said that JJ's right to go with Gibbs .. it's not only a NASCAR team .. it's a WINNING NASCAR team

[vapaokie]

Looks kinda similar, but those seem to be a much more forgiving car, with the long wheelbase. Those pics of the front end off the ground on Yeley's site are not him showing off. That's a regular occurence in a race due to the torque the monster big blocks put out. Without wings, they are known to sit themselves straight up on the gas tank (back end of the car)

USAC (primarily non-wing, pavement and dirt) and World of Outlaws (winged and dirt) are the preiminent divisions for sprint cars in the country; and are full fledged professional racing operations.

Yeley was Stewart's driver, and has a very similar resume. Should do well in the Gibbs organization, and in NASCAR. He has loads of talent that should translate well to the mostly all-oval format of NASCAR.

[ehagar]

Originally posted by Jordan191


what part of It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the IRL . don't you understand?

I'm sorry I even mentioned it... the only reason I did is because of the traditional Indycar-Sprint car driver link. Those days are long gone.

Who in CART/IRL did sprint cars? Al Unser Jr? Jimmy Vasser? Is that it?

[Jordan191]

Originally posted by ehagar


I'm sorry I even mentioned it... the only reason I did is because of the traditional Indycar-Sprint car driver link. Those days are long gone.

Who in CART/IRL did sprint cars? Al Unser Jr? Jimmy Vasser? Is that it?

is Billy Boat still in ? ... and that new rookie guy did some no?

[ehagar]

Originally posted by Jordan191


is Billy Boat still in ? ... and that new rookie guy did some no?

I saw Billy Boat's name in some Nascar sanctioned event recently... I think he is out.

Oh hang on... Sarah Fisher. Oops, bad example...

[Jordan191]

Originally posted by ehagar


I saw Billy Boat's name in some Nascar sanctioned event recently... I think he is out.

Oh hang on... Sarah Fisher. Oops, bad example...

erm didn't Sam Hornish come from USAC?

[maclaren]

Originally posted by Jordan191
is Billy Boat still in ? ... and that new rookie guy did some no?

What is Billing Boat? Is it a scale boat make or something?

[Jordan191]

Originally posted by maclaren

What is Billing Boat? Is it a scale boat make or something?

erm you suck at US open wheel racing ;)

[ehagar]

Originally posted by Jordan191


erm didn't Sam Hornish come from USAC?

I think he did karts

[indycarjunkie]

Originally posted by Jordan191
erm didn't Sam Hornish come from USAC?

Yes, he raced against Sarah in 1/4 midgets when they were kids but his professional career background is in US F2000 and Toyota Atlantics.

Sam Hornish Career Web Site


edit...correction....he raced against Sarah in Karts not 1/4 midgets

[ensign14]

Yeley has of course driven in the Indy 500 in the 'Vision' days. Apparently he was a bit of a jerk to Panther and did not replyto them when they invited him to test. Guess he had no interest in IRL.

[ColdHeart]

Then, again, if you were JJ and you had to choose between an IRL ride or one of the top Nascar rides, which would you choose ?

Ask Sam Hornish. He signed with Penske in the IRL instead of several NASCAR offers.

[shaggy]

Originally posted by Jordan191


what part of It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the IRL . don't you understand?

having said that JJ's right to go with Gibbs .. it's not only a NASCAR team .. it's a WINNING NASCAR team

Wll, he did start in the IRL and complained loudly about not being the right chance.
It was only after these doors closed that he started looking at Nascar. Look where he is going to now.

What does "another one bites the dust" in the thread title mean ?
He bit the dust, in part, due to the added cost of the IRL ... so , that is what that has to do with it.

shaggy

[shaggy]

Originally posted by ColdHeart


Ask Sam Hornish. He signed with Penske in the IRL instead of several NASCAR offers.

Yeah, but that is Penske .. for crying out loud.
Sam also stated that he signed with Penske because he wants to win Indy, which Penske does know how to do. Furthermore, he was not too keen on the 35 races, compared to 16 in the IRL, that he would have to do in Nascar.

shaggy

[shaggy]

Originally posted by ehagar


I saw Billy Boat's name in some Nascar sanctioned event recently... I think he is out.

Oh hang on... Sarah Fisher. Oops, bad example...

I think Boat ws doing Busch races this year.
Rice will be doing Trucks next year along with, apparently, Sara Senske.

Two road racers from Atlantics and Barber doing Trucks

shaggy

[dbltop]

The same class of car that Yeley has been winning a lot of races in is the same type that Mario Andretti cut his teeth in. So I would argue Ross' point that it had nothing to do with F1. The point is that Ecclestone and the powers that be WANT an American driver in F1. Would everybody agree with that? It seems to me that the best young drivers opt for Nascar. One can't blame them for wanting the money , and most of all , the chance to win, but it wouldn't be good to have a driver of inferior talent sign up to F1 based just on his nationality. Sound familiar Alex Yoong fans.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by shaggy

Wll, he did start in the IRL and complained loudly about not being the right chance.
It was only after these doors closed that he started looking at Nascar. Look where he is going to now.

Man, talk about spin. He was invited to test for Panther as a Hornish replacement. He told John Barnes he was too busy eating dinner and never called him back.

Originally posted by shaggy
Two road racers from Atlantics and Barber doing Trucks

Two mediocre road racers will be even less competitive in NASCAR, I dont consider that lost talent.

[Jordan191]

Originally posted by ColdHeart


Ask Sam Hornish. He signed with Penske in the IRL instead of several NASCAR offers.

what nascar ride ? .. and Hornish is a staunch IRL supporter. And the best open wheel oval racer in either CART or the IRL

[Jordan191]

Originally posted by shaggy

Wll, he did start in the IRL and complained loudly about not being the right chance.
It was only after these doors closed that he started looking at Nascar. Look where he is going to now.

What does "another one bites the dust" in the thread title mean ?
He bit the dust, in part, due to the added cost of the IRL ... so , that is what that has to do with it.

shaggy

gibbs dosen't exactly have a small budget either. Remember he BUILDS cars

[John B]

As jordan mentioned it's like getting a call from Williams or Ferrari....Gibbs finished 1 or 2 in the title hunt for 4 years, and brought Stewart from IRL to Cup race winner in under 2 years. Plus he'll have a chance to be a name recognition star - I think he'd get more attention in the USA as an upper-mid pack NASCAR driver than if he broke all of Schumacher's F1 records

[ColdHeart]

Originally posted by Jordan191


what nascar ride ? .. and Hornish is a staunch IRL supporter. And the best open wheel oval racer in either CART or the IRL

Hornish had offers from Hendrick and DEI. He chose to stay in the IRL with Penske. He still may end up in NASCAR, taking over Rusty Wallace's seat in 2 years but that remains to be seen.

[JoeUser]

The guy was always heading to NASCAR. Spinning this as a blow to F1 is WAYYYYYYYYYY out there.

[shaggy]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld


Man, talk about spin. He was invited to test for Panther as a Hornish replacement. He told John Barnes he was too busy eating dinner and never called him back.

Two mediocre road racers will be even less competitive in NASCAR, I dont consider that lost talent.

I read that he didn't even call him to let him know he was having dinner.
Everybody puts their own spin. I have also read that he was already in deep negotiations with Gibbs and wanted to "do to the IRL" what they had done to him.

Rice and Senske are nothing to write home about, but I think that Senske could have been used, with some tutoring, for the good of OWRS in advertising itself. I think it was at a motorsport forum that an individual, claiming to have worked at Lynix (?), stated that Senske was as fast in qualifying as anyone they had ever had, but that she just could not put it together for the race.

shaggy

[Pete Aaron]

The shift from USAC to NASCAR occurred eons ago.
The final nail in the coffin was Tony Stewart, and frankly, JJ Yeley can't hold a candle to either of the far more notorius losses to the American Open Wheel Racer myth, Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart. Neither can Hornish.
I'd be surprised as all get out if Hornish or Yeley could ever rub bumpers with Little E or Jimmie Johnson, roughly equals in age.
The best American drivers these days are runnin' tin tops, and you ain't gonna be seeing them at the i500, ever again, no matter what the hoosier faithful may have heard fom TG.
You won't be seeing them in Monaco, Le Mans or the Streets of Long Beach, either for that matter.
I don't doubt that amongst the horde of NASCAR drivers are some kids that would be damn good F-1 drivers, but for them it just ain't worth it, not when you can race 42 times a year for a salary that is on par to what only 4-6 of the current F-1 drivers are getting even if you only finish in the top twenty five every year.
Frank Williams couldn't afford a top US driver and said so after Jeff Gordon's play drive at Indy earlier this year.
NASCAR is the only game to play for the up and comer Americans, drinking milk is for the south american circle racers, not the bull ring drivers.
Unless of course Tony George once again sells out and hands over his memorial day date to the France family mafia, which wouldn't surprise me one iota.

[ColdHeart]

The best American drivers these days are runnin' tin tops

You haven't watched Hornish much. One of the most impressive things I've ever seen was watching him run in the top 5 at Indy this year while being 50 h.p. down. Wheldon crashed trying to keep him behind because he just kept coming, amazing stuff. I don't know how he gets his pants on.....

[Pete Aaron]

Originally posted by ColdHeart


You haven't watched Hornish much.

Yes I have,
And I've seen enough of him to know that Littl' E would have him for breakfast in anything on wheels.
Put down the Koolaid and take a step back, Wilke, and maybe you could get a better view.
There's at least fifteen guys in Cup and probably a few more in Busch that have Sammy Boy covered from every angle.
It's the way it is in American racing these days.
The best drivers would much rather be at Charlottesville than indy.
And they are.

[KenC]

Yeley is a promising CUP driver, no doubt about that, and as a few people have noted, Yeley HAD his shot at IRL and didn't impresss. I vaguely recall him crashing early at an Indy 500, and several other early race exits. Anyhow, he didn't look like the next coming of Tony Stewart, or Sam Hornish, or even Greg Ray! I think he'll be happy with his decision.

As for the issue of youg americans going to NASCAR, heck yeah, it's the path of least resistance, and has been ever since Jeff Gordon made his choice. Jeff could have tried to make it to CART/F1, but it was easier to take the route to NASCAR. I think most people would choose the surer path to commercial success.

[KenC]

Originally posted by ColdHeart

You haven't watched Hornish much. One of the most impressive things I've ever seen was watching him run in the top 5 at Indy this year while being 50 h.p. down. Wheldon crashed trying to keep him behind because he just kept coming, amazing stuff. I don't know how he gets his pants on.....

I don't know why this made me think of it, but seeing as you mention Wheldon crashing in his first Indy, reminded me of Sam spinning and crashing out Al Jr, a few years back, which has to have been his lowest moment and one of the least impressive things I've ever seen after all the hype by the announcers.

[maclaren]

Originally posted by Jordan191
erm you suck at US open wheel racing ;)

I guess they are not racing with real names, when standard name is type "Jack the Rat" or "Jimmy Truckman"

[Jordan191]

Originally posted by maclaren

I guess they are not racing with real names, when standard name is type "Jack the Rat" or "Jimmy Truckman"

his name IS billy boat

[Jordan191]

Originally posted by Pete Aaron


Yes I have,
And I've seen enough of him to know that Littl' E would have him for breakfast in anything on wheels.
Put down the Koolaid and take a step back, Wilke, and maybe you could get a better view.
There's at least fifteen guys in Cup and probably a few more in Busch that have Sammy Boy covered from every angle.
It's the way it is in American racing these days.
The best drivers would much rather be at Charlottesville than indy.
And they are.

how do you know this ? Hornish hasn't run a Cup car yet. He could be the next Tony Stewart , who despite some lame reliability issues is still a better Cup driver than Dale Jr.